Big problem of Duelling

[Adélaïde]

Hello. In my opinion, currently (v1.5.3), we have a big problem with excessive movement in Duelling system. A lot of people now use the tactic of landing swings, while avoiding being hit by running, and, it is much easier to do this than to counter.

This problem could be solved, for example, by making attacker lose certain amount of Blocking Points, if the swing is being performed during run or by adding timer of BP damage multiplier, which would, in few seconds, smoothly increase damage back from about x0.65 to normal value after switching from running to walking. I would not want MBII to turn into another JKA+, and i doubt someone else would. What do you think about it?

 

[PuNk]

If you time them right and if you're too dumb to make your attacks obvious.

 

[Karus]

This is what is wrong with this patch

i just see big big interrupts lol u scrub

 

[n00b]

Parrying is an awful mechanic, one of you mentioned spamming with some other guys suggested changes. Parrying already does encourage spamming, rather than pbing. This is obviously about preference, but I'd have to agree with Hessu on this one. Even more so now that pbc's are all busted, realistically you don't have to pb much atm, just spam away and run off and repeat.

 

[SeV]

Maybe I am old fashioned, but the video Hessu linked just screams 'git-gud' at me. You should not feel entitled to kills with such low-effort gameplay. Sorry if rude.

Anyway, I think the system in general could use a bit of an overhaul. However, it's pretty much impossible to do anything as a beta tester so I signed off a long time ago and I'm not even on MBII discord any more because why waste my time?

However, if I were to suggest general design direction changes, it would run along the lines of every style being unique in as many ways as possible so that it doesn't feel like you're just playing faster and slower versions of yellow. This can include changing perks, ways of blocking, parrying/countering mechanics for each style and so on. Simply giving back insta counters, PB counters or MBC's is not going to fix the fundamentally flawed design of the current system.

The current aimed PB is not suited to how current moviebattles II does attacks and it does not cohere with open mode gameplay at all. It is pretty much only good in 1v1 dueling scenarios but feels super unnatural in 1vx and open mode. This is because you can run, mouserape to obscure, facehug, etc to bypass the PB. I think the old way of having the blade = PB was more consistent from a coherency stand-point, aka what you see is what you get. But even that is flawed because you got yaw. Since perfection is impossible, a mixture of the two seems reasonable, perhaps with a third way of blocking, like through Manual block, could be good. I mean, it's called manual block, not disarm, right? Why can't manual block, block? If you time an MB, you should be getting a PB or something else like a manual PB. You can change the effectiveness of the different ways of PBing. For example, lightsaber blade 20% dmg redux, normal PB within a small zone 90% within a larger 1.3 style zone 80% and finally Manual PB 100%

For years now, I've been thinking that it would be good to give players different ways to block so they don't have to rely solely on aimed PB. We're talking things like the lightsaber blade being an object to interact with rather than a gummy dildo that can't stop attacks at all. But again, it's pretty much impossible to get any meaningful gameplay changes through as a mere beta tester even though I've wanted a 20% reduction of BP damage if you hit the saber vs the body, so that there is a difference between a bodyhit and a saberhit, for years.

On parrying, there are a few things you can do. First, make it so you cannot do consecutive parries on low BP, perhaps when you are under like 10-15% BP, maybe you flinch back into a brief lock or something. Next, you make someone who swingblocks beat someone that doesn't swingblock in the parry so that both have to swingblock full combos to parry perfectly. This 'beating' could be related to BP drain or it could interrupt the parry and flinch like at lower BP. This also means that you can't truly tell if someone is low BP or they just failed their swingblock parries, which means that you can mindgame a bit better. You can also make the last swing in a combo disarmable. So for yellow it'd be the 4th swing, for red the 3rd. But only if it's a consecutive in a combo, and not if it's just halfswinging. Another possible way is to have different interactions for swingblock vs non-swingblock. Say, if you don't swingblock, u don't get parried by the opponent but u can also get disarmed and interrupts hurt u more. If you swingblock, you're safer but you get parried by an opponent that swingblocks. There are many things you could try, but well, for reasons that escape me, we're stuck with such narrowminded systems.

There are of course many other ways you could change things up, like introducing buyable perks that give you various boosts. Imagine if there was a lightsaber skills menu completely seperate from the Force menu, and in that saber menu you buy things like manual block disarm, improved parry, improved countering, or passive abilities like taking less BP damage on lightsaber blade hit (Maybe the default is 10% and u can increase it to 25% by buying this perk). There are so many things you could do, and I've written many essays on suggestions in the past, so I will leave it at this. Just know that it's possible to reach for the skies, but the devs are afraid to do anything because you people whine every time a new patch comes out (sometimes with good reason, but even on the good patches there's always something that isn't so good, and the negatives get focused on so the devs get depressed and go on half a year hiatus).

 

[pelmeņu lauks]

Maybe I am old fashioned, but the video Hessu linked just screams 'git-gud' at me. You should not feel entitled to kills with such low-effort gameplay. Sorry if rude.

Anyway, I think the system in general could use a bit of an overhaul. However, it's pretty much impossible to do anything as a beta tester so I signed off a long time ago and I'm not even on MBII discord any more because why waste my time?

However, if I were to suggest general design direction changes, it would run along the lines of every style being unique in as many ways as possible so that it doesn't feel like you're just playing faster and slower versions of yellow. This can include changing perks, ways of blocking, parrying/countering mechanics for each style and so on. Simply giving back insta counters, PB counters or MBC's is not going to fix the fundamentally flawed design of the current system.

The current aimed PB is not suited to how current moviebattles II does attacks and it does not cohere with open mode gameplay at all. It is pretty much only good in 1v1 dueling scenarios but feels super unnatural in 1vx and open mode. This is because you can run, mouserape to obscure, facehug, etc to bypass the PB. I think the old way of having the blade = PB was more consistent from a coherency stand-point, aka what you see is what you get. But even that is flawed because you got yaw. Since perfection is impossible, a mixture of the two seems reasonable, perhaps with a third way of blocking, like through Manual block, could be good. I mean, it's called manual block, not disarm, right? Why can't manual block, block? If you time an MB, you should be getting a PB or something else like a manual PB. You can change the effectiveness of the different ways of PBing. For example, lightsaber blade 20% dmg redux, normal PB within a small zone 90% within a larger 1.3 style zone 80% and finally Manual PB 100%

For years now, I've been thinking that it would be good to give players different ways to block so they don't have to rely solely on aimed PB. We're talking things like the lightsaber blade being an object to interact with rather than a gummy dildo that can't stop attacks at all. But again, it's pretty much impossible to get any meaningful gameplay changes through as a mere beta tester even though I've wanted a 20% reduction of BP damage if you hit the saber vs the body, so that there is a difference between a bodyhit and a saberhit, for years.

On parrying, there are a few things you can do. First, make it so you cannot do consecutive parries on low BP, perhaps when you are under like 10-15% BP, maybe you flinch back into a brief lock or something. Next, you make someone who swingblocks beat someone that doesn't swingblock in the parry so that both have to swingblock full combos to parry perfectly. This 'beating' could be related to BP drain or it could interrupt the parry and flinch like at lower BP. This also means that you can't truly tell if someone is low BP or they just failed their swingblock parries, which means that you can mindgame a bit better. You can also make the last swing in a combo disarmable. So for yellow it'd be the 4th swing, for red the 3rd. But only if it's a consecutive in a combo, and not if it's just halfswinging. Another possible way is to have different interactions for swingblock vs non-swingblock. Say, if you don't swingblock, u don't get parried by the opponent but u can also get disarmed and interrupts hurt u more. If you swingblock, you're safer but you get parried by an opponent that swingblocks. There are many things you could try, but well, for reasons that escape me, we're stuck with such narrowminded systems.

There are of course many other ways you could change things up, like introducing buyable perks that give you various boosts. Imagine if there was a lightsaber skills menu completely seperate from the Force menu, and in that saber menu you buy things like manual block disarm, improved parry, improved countering, or passive abilities like taking less BP damage on lightsaber blade hit (Maybe the default is 10% and u can increase it to 25% by buying this perk). There are so many things you could do, and I've written many essays on suggestions in the past, so I will leave it at this. Just know that it's possible to reach for the skies, but the devs are afraid to do anything because you people whine every time a new patch comes out (sometimes with good reason, but even on the good patches there's always something that isn't so good, and the negatives get focused on so the devs get depressed and go on half a year hiatus).

I lit a few candles and poured myself a glass of fine red wine before reading this.

 

[Karus]

Maybe I am old fashioned, but the video Hessu linked just screams 'git-gud' at me. You should not feel entitled to kills with such low-effort gameplay. Sorry if rude.

Anyway, I think the system in general could use a bit of an overhaul. However, it's pretty much impossible to do anything as a beta tester so I signed off a long time ago and I'm not even on MBII discord any more because why waste my time?

However, if I were to suggest general design direction changes, it would run along the lines of every style being unique in as many ways as possible so that it doesn't feel like you're just playing faster and slower versions of yellow. This can include changing perks, ways of blocking, parrying/countering mechanics for each style and so on. Simply giving back insta counters, PB counters or MBC's is not going to fix the fundamentally flawed design of the current system.

The current aimed PB is not suited to how current moviebattles II does attacks and it does not cohere with open mode gameplay at all. It is pretty much only good in 1v1 dueling scenarios but feels super unnatural in 1vx and open mode. This is because you can run, mouserape to obscure, facehug, etc to bypass the PB. I think the old way of having the blade = PB was more consistent from a coherency stand-point, aka what you see is what you get. But even that is flawed because you got yaw. Since perfection is impossible, a mixture of the two seems reasonable, perhaps with a third way of blocking, like through Manual block, could be good. I mean, it's called manual block, not disarm, right? Why can't manual block, block? If you time an MB, you should be getting a PB or something else like a manual PB. You can change the effectiveness of the different ways of PBing. For example, lightsaber blade 20% dmg redux, normal PB within a small zone 90% within a larger 1.3 style zone 80% and finally Manual PB 100%

For years now, I've been thinking that it would be good to give players different ways to block so they don't have to rely solely on aimed PB. We're talking things like the lightsaber blade being an object to interact with rather than a gummy dildo that can't stop attacks at all. But again, it's pretty much impossible to get any meaningful gameplay changes through as a mere beta tester even though I've wanted a 20% reduction of BP damage if you hit the saber vs the body, so that there is a difference between a bodyhit and a saberhit, for years.

On parrying, there are a few things you can do. First, make it so you cannot do consecutive parries on low BP, perhaps when you are under like 10-15% BP, maybe you flinch back into a brief lock or something. Next, you make someone who swingblocks beat someone that doesn't swingblock in the parry so that both have to swingblock full combos to parry perfectly. This 'beating' could be related to BP drain or it could interrupt the parry and flinch like at lower BP. This also means that you can't truly tell if someone is low BP or they just failed their swingblock parries, which means that you can mindgame a bit better. You can also make the last swing in a combo disarmable. So for yellow it'd be the 4th swing, for red the 3rd. But only if it's a consecutive in a combo, and not if it's just halfswinging. Another possible way is to have different interactions for swingblock vs non-swingblock. Say, if you don't swingblock, u don't get parried by the opponent but u can also get disarmed and interrupts hurt u more. If you swingblock, you're safer but you get parried by an opponent that swingblocks. There are many things you could try, but well, for reasons that escape me, we're stuck with such narrowminded systems.

There are of course many other ways you could change things up, like introducing buyable perks that give you various boosts. Imagine if there was a lightsaber skills menu completely seperate from the Force menu, and in that saber menu you buy things like manual block disarm, improved parry, improved countering, or passive abilities like taking less BP damage on lightsaber blade hit (Maybe the default is 10% and u can increase it to 25% by buying this perk). There are so many things you could do, and I've written many essays on suggestions in the past, so I will leave it at this. Just know that it's possible to reach for the skies, but the devs are afraid to do anything because you people whine every time a new patch comes out (sometimes with good reason, but even on the good patches there's always something that isn't so good, and the negatives get focused on so the devs get depressed and go on half a year hiatus).

You make good points, as always, Sev.

Maybe I am old fashioned, but the video Hessu linked just screams 'git-gud' at me.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA

On parrying, there are a few things you can do. First, make it so you cannot do consecutive parries on low BP, perhaps when you are under like 10-15% BP, maybe you flinch back into a brief lock or something.

This would be great, I think you'd have to cripple footwork a bit for this to work correctly though. If I get to 10-15BP, I know I'm going to lockup if I attempt a parry and fail; I'm simply just going to run. It's easier, less risky, and not much the enemy can do about it.
Then again, getting locked up at 10-15BP is going to make duels much faster, and it would make duels feel a bit frustrating imo.

As I mentioned in my previous post though, I don't actually think parrying is problematic whatsoever. I'm slightly baffled as to why people think parrying is an issue in the first place. If someone parries you to death without running like a bitch, I'm sorry but you're shit at this game. But that's just how I see it. (Maybe I'm wrong).
Besides, we have a feature to stop excessive parrying already, it's called slap. Use this correctly please guys.
"But if they're swingblock is good what can I do" they are GOOD at swingblocking. That is the whole point.
Perhaps they lack in other things which is why you managed to get them so low (0-10BP) but their swingblock is great, allowing them to ware/tank you down to their level.
And yes I'm aware swingblock in itself is a bit of a flawed system, but pretty much everything is flawed and can be exploited in this game if done correctly.
Why people would want to add more shit into the mix in regards to parrying is honestly fucking beyond me.

If I am on 0-10BP, and I'm walking/standing/not trying to avoid the enemies swings and just letting the duel play out naturally, it's VERY difficult for me to just parry someone to death. Usually I have to PB the first swing then counter attack, or PB a few swings and attack afterwards etc.
This is what makes me think parrying is not a problem at all. It's the running.

My ideas in regards to potential changes that could be implemented are flawed, but as mentioned earlier pretty much everything in this game is. Nothing's ever going to be perfect and I think we need some very basic but crucial changes to how dueling works right now.
(I mentioned these earlier but I feel like everyone just tl;dr'd me lol)
1. Change counter timing.
2. Lower interrupts even further.
Reasons why this would work:
1. Easy as fuck to implement. Literally just adjusting a couple values (I think. Temp/Stas correct me if I'm wrong about that lol).
2. You will actually be able to counter without having to cross your toes and pray to God it works.
Meaning:
Less interrupts, less chance for enemy to abuse gay running tactics and more BP available in order to chase down pussies.

Working on a patch for 1-2 years just to release it and find out the community fucking hates it is not the way to go imo.
We need regular duel change tests with duelists/beta team or regular patches to the public and focus on feedback from them, rather than working on a system for ages and finding out it doesn't work.
I understand why we are currently not doing this; devs are demotivated since they have worked for a VERY long time on this mod and think the community hates them as Sev mentioned.
But don't let the negative feedback get to you, we are all just EXTREMELY passionate about this game and we really do want it to do well!
With regular small changes here and there, I think the relationship with the community (at least the dueling community) will gradually improve, transparency between devs and community will be better and we'll all feel a bit happier

I think the old way of having the blade = PB was more consistent from a coherency stand-point

This pls.

If you time an MB, you should be getting a PB or something else like a manual PB.

I actually think disarms should be removed from the game entirely. it's a bit retarded/boring once you know how to do it properly and it seems to frustrate a lot of the noobies.
Giving us a manual PB instead would be great. Do dis pls devs.

On the topic of PB, I feel like the system isn't that flawed. Yeah, it's not great in 2v(?) or Open, but imo, due to the nature of PB being that you need to use your mouse to aim at a certain location to perform it, you can never get it to a place where it's perfect.
What about, if you PB one guy, the second guy who hits you deals no damage for that first swing? This way, you'd have a bit more of an ability to stretch the duel out and let oppurtunities present themselves.

Since I have absolutely ZERO knowledge on coding or how saber changes can be implemented, I'm not sure how this would be possible (or if it IS possible).

Imagine if there was a lightsaber skills menu completely seperate from the Force menu, and in that saber menu you buy things like manual block disarm, improved parry, improved countering, or passive abilities like taking less BP damage on lightsaber blade hit

Personally I would completely despise something like this.
I believe everyone should be on the most equal playing field possible when it comes to dueling.
If something like this were to be implemented, I feel like it would crush dueling completely. It'd be so easy to just blame your loss on the fact that the enemy you lost to bought something in the Saber menu and you bought something else that you didn't get to flex in that particular duel (for whatever reason).
Besides, I don't think many active duelists would really care for something like this anyway. Most of us have our own styles or ways of playing that have pro's and cons in their own ways.
Because players have discovered these ways of playing themselves, adding a system like this into the game would take away this feat from duelists.

Now that this fucking essay is finished I can go and take a shit thank u all for listening

 

[Jizz]

New sabering makes it really hard to stay in love with this game.... it's becoming a chore when you die with 100bp to nothing from some random interrupt front whack style even when you play correctly. I wrote a comment that got over 1000 likes on a YouTube video showing some of my love and enthusiasm walking through people on how to download it and play... but its just such a gimmicky thing to deal with this new sabering system. I honestly can't say I feel the same about it anymore. Which is horrible because I love MBII so much, I get a feel that the devs are too tired of playing the game subconsciously and no longer want the nuanced play of the old patches (washed up from the years they've put into the mod, god bless, but instead of playing for fun which they should instead of lowering the skill ceiling for the people who want this competitiveness that MBII embodies and has for years) want to get good results with classes like hero with proj, arc, or Jedi who have speed which makes them far better then Sith and now able to close distance with this basic system, desire quick BattleFront2 console style whiffleball bat duels for good results on their ego score. Its a bad way to go about nerfing Jedi and or Sith which was the goal. Its very sad considering that this is the best Star Wars Multiplayer Experience ever created and now the depth is from the class gunplay synergy which is good, but at the sacrifice of the "x" equation of saber skill becoming a mediocre factor in how battles play out now, for all and every engagements, front line dueling is rather stale now, and the incentive to put time into training yourself is now erased. Movie battles lowkey always was about having fun building up your own persona Jedi / Sith that you had your own neat style for that people would remember you by being salty at being killed by. (new patch eliminates viabilities of a lot of techniques, i.e. simpler less creative)

I get very good results online too, HIGH KDS, Win a vast majority of my duels etc.

I could complain about how all the rebel gunners have easy synergy compared to the imps, (rebels just fire their guns and they instantly work together like PB and J while imps need to ALWAYS have co-ordination and good setup, where as rushing with your correct formation of rebels is a nigh unstoppable machine aside from the random explosions you can slip in with some good grenade work and thermals or a rocket. ( not to downplay the strengths imps can have, but in general, almost every rebel class is superior to their imp counterpart currently, minus the bow caster being not that good, but... that's about it. ( only excluding variable there is that some maps make it easy for imps to defend, but you could give a monkey a gun in those setups and they'd still do decent on defense… doesn't make it a fair fight.)

all of those problems above with gunplay are irrelevant to the saber discussion, but it just goes to show that if they want to make the mod less elitist skill based and more " fun" at the cost of intellectual gameplay, then they should address the rebel synergy too, or at least give imps a new wildcard to help their synergy in game as a team.

Oh and btw just remove projectile and make it FA while having the disruptor be for heroes and bh, no ones impressed by proj shots, even me when I make my own, its not fun for 1 its so strong, and 2 , its easy. its wayyyy too good, but that's how its always been haha!

end of little opinion monologue here but to make a long story short, 1.5 no matter how the devs defend it, was ultimately not what everyone wanted, period.

<3

(p.s. a little meme , when they gonna fix the hero dash off the ground that lets you instant transmission like Goku? or speed blitz like a anime character? never. that's when, because to them, that's "balance" haha.)

(p.p.s. thank you so much devs for the love you've put into this mod, I respect and thank the long line of you that have crafted this golden experience, but you guys be peaking with these new updates. just focus your efforts on fun game modes and maps! new FAs! the rest is a waste, don't fix what isn't completely broken, cause then you'll get something new that has a lot of missing parts... Lots of love!~)

This was all typed under the implication of a discussion in balance that the teams have equal skill/ parties when they fight / duel. / use tactics with firearms.

 

[Karus]

New sabering makes it really hard to stay in love with this game.... it's becoming a chore when you die with 100bp to nothing from some random interrupt front whack style even when you play correctly. I wrote a comment that got over 1000 likes on a YouTube video showing some of my love and enthusiasm walking through people on how to download it and play... but its just such a gimmicky thing to deal with this new sabering system. I honestly can't say I feel the same about it anymore. Which is horrible because I love MBII so much, I get a feel that the devs are too tired of playing the game subconsciously and no longer want the nuanced play of the old patches (washed up from the years they've put into the mod, god bless, but instead of playing for fun which they should instead of lowering the skill ceiling for the people who want this competitiveness that MBII embodies and has for years) want to get good results with classes like hero with proj, arc, or Jedi who have speed which makes them far better then Sith and now able to close distance with this basic system, desire quick BattleFront2 console style whiffleball bat duels for good results on their ego score. Its a bad way to go about nerfing Jedi and or Sith which was the goal. Its very sad considering that this is the best Star Wars Multiplayer Experience ever created and now the depth is from the class gunplay synergy which is good, but at the sacrifice of the "x" equation of saber skill becoming a mediocre factor in how battles play out now, for all and every engagements, front line dueling is rather stale now, and the incentive to put time into training yourself is now erased. Movie battles lowkey always was about having fun building up your own persona Jedi / Sith that you had your own neat style for that people would remember you by being salty at being killed by. (new patch eliminates viabilities of a lot of techniques, i.e. simpler less creative)

I get very good results online too, HIGH KDS, Win a vast majority of my duels etc.

I could complain about how all the rebel gunners have easy synergy compared to the imps, (rebels just fire their guns and they instantly work together like PB and J while imps need to ALWAYS have co-ordination and good setup, where as rushing with your correct formation of rebels is a nigh unstoppable machine aside from the random explosions you can slip in with some good grenade work and thermals or a rocket. ( not to downplay the strengths imps can have, but in general, almost every rebel class is superior to their imp counterpart currently, minus the bow caster being not that good, but... that's about it. ( only excluding variable there is that some maps make it easy for imps to defend, but you could give a monkey a gun in those setups and they'd still do decent on defense… doesn't make it a fair fight.)

all of those problems above with gunplay are irrelevant to the saber discussion, but it just goes to show that if they want to make the mod less elitist skill based and more " fun" at the cost of intellectual gameplay, then they should address the rebel synergy too, or at least give imps a new wildcard to help their synergy in game as a team.

Oh and btw just remove projectile and make it FA while having the disruptor be for heroes and jedi, no ones impressed by proj shots, even me when I make my own, its not fun for 1 its so strong, and 2 , its easy. its wayyyy too good, but that's how its always been haha!

end of little opinion monologue here but to make a long story short, 1.5 no matter how the devs defend it, was ultimately not what everyone wanted, period.

<3

(p.s. a little meme , when they gonna fix the hero dash off the ground that lets you instant transmission like Goku? or speed blitz like a anime character? never. that's when, because to them, that's "balance" haha.)

(p.p.s. thank you so much devs for the love you've put into this mod, I respect and thank the long line of you that have crafted this golden experience, but you guys be peaking with these new updates. just focus your efforts on fun game modes and maps! new FAs! the rest is a waste, don't fix what isn't completely broken, cause then you'll get something new that has a lot of missing parts... Lots of love!~)

This was all typed under the implication of a discussion in balance that the teams have equal skill/ parties when they fight / duel. / use tactics with firearms.

the incentive to put time into training yourself is now erased

I disagree entirely. The incentive to put time into training is now MORE important due to interrupts being so deadly. You can't just spam and win in this game; if you're a new player and try to do that you will die.

new patch eliminates viabilities of a lot of techniques, i.e. simpler less creative

Agreed. Though many of the best duelists (at least in EU currently) still have their own styles which work just fine. Albeit the patch doesn't agree with some of them, but not to the point where they are no longer one of the best.

no ones impressed by proj shots

im not impressed by anything in open anymore tbh

when they gonna fix the hero dash off the ground that lets you instant transmission

If they did this, Jedi/Sith would be less viable. One push = you're dead. One kick/flykick, dead.

 

[Hessu]

Maybe I am old fashioned, but the video Hessu linked just screams 'git-gud' at me. You should not feel entitled to kills with such low-effort gameplay. Sorry if rude.

Anyway, I think the system in general could use a bit of an overhaul. However, it's pretty much impossible to do anything as a beta tester so I signed off a long time ago and I'm not even on MBII discord any more because why waste my time?

However, if I were to suggest general design direction changes, it would run along the lines of every style being unique in as many ways as possible so that it doesn't feel like you're just playing faster and slower versions of yellow. This can include changing perks, ways of blocking, parrying/countering mechanics for each style and so on. Simply giving back insta counters, PB counters or MBC's is not going to fix the fundamentally flawed design of the current system.

The current aimed PB is not suited to how current moviebattles II does attacks and it does not cohere with open mode gameplay at all. It is pretty much only good in 1v1 dueling scenarios but feels super unnatural in 1vx and open mode. This is because you can run, mouserape to obscure, facehug, etc to bypass the PB. I think the old way of having the blade = PB was more consistent from a coherency stand-point, aka what you see is what you get. But even that is flawed because you got yaw. Since perfection is impossible, a mixture of the two seems reasonable, perhaps with a third way of blocking, like through Manual block, could be good. I mean, it's called manual block, not disarm, right? Why can't manual block, block? If you time an MB, you should be getting a PB or something else like a manual PB. You can change the effectiveness of the different ways of PBing. For example, lightsaber blade 20% dmg redux, normal PB within a small zone 90% within a larger 1.3 style zone 80% and finally Manual PB 100%

For years now, I've been thinking that it would be good to give players different ways to block so they don't have to rely solely on aimed PB. We're talking things like the lightsaber blade being an object to interact with rather than a gummy dildo that can't stop attacks at all. But again, it's pretty much impossible to get any meaningful gameplay changes through as a mere beta tester even though I've wanted a 20% reduction of BP damage if you hit the saber vs the body, so that there is a difference between a bodyhit and a saberhit, for years.

On parrying, there are a few things you can do. First, make it so you cannot do consecutive parries on low BP, perhaps when you are under like 10-15% BP, maybe you flinch back into a brief lock or something. Next, you make someone who swingblocks beat someone that doesn't swingblock in the parry so that both have to swingblock full combos to parry perfectly. This 'beating' could be related to BP drain or it could interrupt the parry and flinch like at lower BP. This also means that you can't truly tell if someone is low BP or they just failed their swingblock parries, which means that you can mindgame a bit better. You can also make the last swing in a combo disarmable. So for yellow it'd be the 4th swing, for red the 3rd. But only if it's a consecutive in a combo, and not if it's just halfswinging. Another possible way is to have different interactions for swingblock vs non-swingblock. Say, if you don't swingblock, u don't get parried by the opponent but u can also get disarmed and interrupts hurt u more. If you swingblock, you're safer but you get parried by an opponent that swingblocks. There are many things you could try, but well, for reasons that escape me, we're stuck with such narrowminded systems.

There are of course many other ways you could change things up, like introducing buyable perks that give you various boosts. Imagine if there was a lightsaber skills menu completely seperate from the Force menu, and in that saber menu you buy things like manual block disarm, improved parry, improved countering, or passive abilities like taking less BP damage on lightsaber blade hit (Maybe the default is 10% and u can increase it to 25% by buying this perk). There are so many things you could do, and I've written many essays on suggestions in the past, so I will leave it at this. Just know that it's possible to reach for the skies, but the devs are afraid to do anything because you people whine every time a new patch comes out (sometimes with good reason, but even on the good patches there's always something that isn't so good, and the negatives get focused on so the devs get depressed and go on half a year hiatus).

Its just showcasing how annoying and strong spamming and running is on this patch. Also rude, i cba put much effort on this wankstain of a patch, but i could beat you blinfolded if i wanted to

 

[Jizz]

I love the level of denial from karus, karus I win from spamming someone every time. ( saber balance isn't even a thing to consider for new players they can barely use a soldier class and go 3/20) even if my opponent is better. there's no reason to train once you grasp the basics of this patch, but if you wanna train on micromanaging spamming into crouch spam we just have different opinions on what's intellectually stimulating, being in control of interrupts with spam is king, its not really any ounce of a bit intuitive nor does it demand a lot of thought from your brain to pull off.

you even advocated to not fix exploited glitches. what a hoot. ( although im tired and busy when i type these so maybe i didnt phrase it right ) u only quoted part of what I said, I don't want dash to be removed, I want the glitch that sends you flying across an entire hangar on death star in a single dash or the length of 80 points of force speed from one dash removed. that is broken, if you defend that idk why u care about discussing balance at all. but to each their own opinion.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

rebels just fire their guns and they instantly work together like PB and J while imps need to ALWAYS have co-ordination and good setup, where as rushing with your correct formation of rebels is a nigh unstoppable machine aside from the random explosions you can slip in with some good grenade work and thermals or a rocket

What the fuck

What are you talking about? Imp classes like Manda and BH can take on multiple rebs and come out on top. And while other classes like Deka and SBD are not as strong, they are still situationally very good.

If anything it's the rebs who have to work together, because rushing alone means almost certain death from an imp sniper camping a hallway somewhere.

 

[pelmeņu lauks]

okay, so. about sabering in 1.5.3...

I don't appreciate this PB on mouse look.
Its just feels stupid and random at moments (PBlocked u while rolling on the ground BRO!)
And you kept disarm.

Here, i have an idea for you to solve all our problems.
Remove PB on mouse.
Replace Disarm on Mblock with PB and Combo breaker.
Redone disarm, so it will be only trigger when you Mblocking someone who has less than ~15% BP (maybe even if opponents swingblocking, cuz you still need to mblock properly to disarm. but thats a may be).

What will it give to us:
1. no need to spin camera. duels will feels more like real duels when you look on your opponent instead of trying to predict his hit.
2. no random pblocks. pb zones are huge and they change when you opponent moves, so you don't look at him, you're chasing pb zones.
3. no random counters in the middle of your combo from guys with good ping - you can simply stop his combo and then attack, so basically you choose what to do - try to land a hit or try to defend yourself and lower the pressure by mblocking.
4. Mblocks works much smoother than pb zones. when you block some direction - you block that direction. doesnt matter if opponent spin around or whatever.
5. Disarm will stop being ultimate and spamable tool, but will become something you can use versus utterly offensive opponent to punish him. At the same time if opponent is defending on low bp - you can start spam and finish him if he is bad at Mblocking.

and yeah.
next time plz make open beta for sabering.

@Tempest
@Defiant

P.S.
As addition it might be good to rework feints to make animation shorter so make it actually usable.
After that you can use it to force someone to mblock one direction while you land a hit from another.

 

[Jizz]

What the fuck

What are you talking about? Imp classes like Manda and BH can take on multiple rebs and come out on top. And while other classes like Deka and SBD are not as strong, they are still situationally very good.

If anything it's the rebs who have to work together, because rushing alone means almost certain death from an imp sniper camping a hallway somewhere.

manda is highly overrated, a shittier arc whose only powerful on maps with vantage points. bh is just a threat cause of projectile / p3, which as I said, doesn't even feel semi balanced for open it should just be FA. I have stuff that takes a lot of my attention away so I wont comment for a good while but if you think rebs need to work together more then imps you've never been a speed jedi flanking under in deathstar then camping the falcon while the rebs swarm every flank. main issue is sabering but I think anyone whose been in a game where both teams have equal skill can agree that rebels are by far the bigger threat when they have good teamwork even if the imps match them in tactics. seen it happen a lot. to me its just fact at this point when you see the spread (which is way too accurate) their guns have. its like theyre using bullets from FA where they're just lazers. ( not blobs of energy, I just mean like the straight line kind of lazer you see from conventional firearms on FA chars)

also your opinion on proj rifle from bhs goes back to my points of , monkeys with guns defending a good position, still doesnt make it fair, and i never have problems with emp snipers since they cant use anime abilities to dissapear with SPEEEEEEDDD BOOST (insert lucio meme)

 

[Jizz]

will no longer be commenting on this thread for at least a week or two sorry to everyone who wants my input if I didn't clear up a point busy bee time

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

you've never been a speed jedi flanking under in deathstar then camping the falcon while the rebs swarm every flank

No, but I've blown up plenty of jedi trying to ride that elevator up thinking they are very clever. And speaking of deathstar, that's one of the worst maps for rebs lol, they really have put a ton of effort to push imps back.

 

[Jizz]

a map example of something for a glitch heroes do and ur using it to nitpick my balance complaint which applies to all maps in mb2. not very constructive, but alas my posting is done for a bit. good luck tho with the semantics. <3 love you cant wait to play with ya all

 

[Hessu]

While we're at it, i'll share my thoughts on how to improve dueling as well.
1. Bring back the old PB where you block the opponents swings with your saber.
2. Make parrying so that you will take less damage than with just blocking the hits, that prevents endless parry spam. Also make it so that if you try to parry while you have 10-15bp remaining, you will get disarmed.
3. Change Mblock so that you will stagger the enemy so you'll break his combo. Also you should lose some bp when failing mblock.
4. Change the counter timing, so we can have counter properly again.
5. Make non-swingblocked chaining faster than when you're swingblocking, maybe single hits too. That would bring some variety and then swingblocking wouldn't be so mandatory, you would have to pick the right time to swingblock.
6. Bring back unique perks to each style.
7. Remove ACM
8. Make swings slower on all styles.

 

[PuNk]

P.S.
As addition it might be good to rework feints to make animation shorter so make it actually usable.
After that you can use it to force someone to mblock one direction while you land a hit from another.

Stassin was on to something in regards to feints actually being useful in his early version last year. Essentially you could cancel out your swing mid-air and quickly follow up with another one of the same speed as a combo hit you'd normally do on an opponent, only in this version you could do it mid-air. And since in his version interrupts were nerfed and reworked it'd actually force both sides to think carefully how to follow up. He also had a solution for blocking feeling more relevant and unique for each style. I don't know if he still plans on working on it, but the early stages did look promising.

 

[pelmeņu lauks]

Stassin was on to something in regards to feints actually being useful in his early version last year. Essentially you could cancel out your swing mid-air and quickly follow up with another one of the same speed as a combo hit you'd normally do on an opponent, only in this version you could do it mid-air. And since in his version interrupts were nerfed and reworked it'd actually force both sides to think carefully how to follow up. He also had a solution for blocking feeling more relevant and unique for each style. I don't know if he still plans on working on it, but the early stages did look promising.

 

[PuNk]

Well played my friend, well played...