Big problem of Duelling

[Adélaïde]

Hello. In my opinion, currently (v1.5.3), we have a big problem with excessive movement in Duelling system. A lot of people now use the tactic of landing swings, while avoiding being hit by running, and, it is much easier to do this than to counter.

This problem could be solved, for example, by making attacker lose certain amount of Blocking Points, if the swing is being performed during run or by adding timer of BP damage multiplier, which would, in few seconds, smoothly increase damage back from about x0.65 to normal value after switching from running to walking. I would not want MBII to turn into another JKA+, and i doubt someone else would. What do you think about it?

 

[pelmeņu lauks]

eats a shitload of your pb away? Unless you get a lucky pb.

 

[Hessu]

a

 

[KimmyMarin]

a

typical hennub

 

[Hessu]

typical hennub

 

[Karus]

Realize that the devs traded one problem for another problem. I respectfully disagree that instas were completely impossible to counter, its called fighting fire with fire. Also, that there was no pblock cooldown like there was in 1.4 (EX: Not being able to pb on getup), I prefer last patch rather than this because you are not able to counter excessive running against another skillful duelist, as they WILL know what you are trying to do, and all they have to do is quickly change their gameplan, and it doesn't have to be a kick, they could just run once to regain bp, and just grind you for ACM thus obliterating you with a metric ton of bp under their belt, which only exaggerates ones supposed skill level compared to the opponent. By no means was last patch any good either because all you had to do was tank hits and abuse a defensive playstyle, and the attacker was punished. However, like I mentioned above that counters were a very viable way of stopping someone from running without at least taking one counter swing of bp damage which did ALOT to their bp since they had let go of their block.

My only personal problem however is the new counter timing, there are people who have already adapted to the new counter timing, but there others like myself who have abandoned or who are considering abandoning counters from their playstyle completely, leaving them in a sort of "playstyle crisis" because they cannot formulate another efficient strategy to counter a user who marathon runs excessively other than to just copy their opponent and do the same thing, but this will only drag out the duel longer, and the person who imitates the running abuser will only lose in the end, or they will never have a winning chance. Unfortunately, I do not have a viable solution to be considered as a fix but I do really hope that this absurd patch will be replaced by something with a more reliable system instead of something that can just happen through only some skill and a lot of luck.

Imo, at least conceptually, it's relatively easy to solve the problem.

I feel either there needs to be:
1. A change in counter timing. Essentially, make it easier to counter.
Or
2. Reduce the amount of punishment received by failing a counter - AKA - nerf interrupt damage even more.

What you said about yourself and many others not bothering to learn the new counter timing is very true.
Many people are resorting to running, it's easy to see why.
Failing a counter really fucks you over right now,; SeV put it nicely in his post.
Dodging/running from a swing is way more effecient than going for a pblock (or counter)
I think this reveals a larger issue with dueling that I haven't seen too many people talk about (aside from SeV and some others).
Maybe the PB system does need to be altered?
#bringbackbpgain

What you say about countering runners I do disagree with, though.
It is completely possible to fight fire with fire in this current patch.
Just time your runs to interrupt their's. Simple. Though, I don't recommend doing this, as it's much more effective to just wait for the faggot to come to you and slap them as soon as they get close enough.
Also, instas were not counterable.
Just because you could insta back, doesn't mean you could counter it.
This was obvious due to all the defensive players in the patch coming out on top.
If you tried to go full offense, you would die.
The guy who's waiting for swings to hit him and constantly insta countering, is going to win.
Doesn't matter if you insta back, once he gets you low enough he is just going to trade out his BP with you.
This is essentially the same thing as what we are facing right now; you can run away/play defensively constantly until you build up enough ACM and then you can just spam the opponent to death.

 

[JamJarBinks]

Dueling has an identity problem. It used to be fun, but unfair. Now it is neither.

 

[noel]

Bro - no

Idk how the current build is in terms of running but I remember even in builds like 1.4.5/1.4.9 where running was almost too viable, it wasn't impossible to counter like even I was making it out to be at the time.

If you move properly its not hard to stay within reach of your opponent, you just have to get used to running yourself and knowing when to slap. If they're running away there's always going to be a window where you can slap or kick if you time it right and position yourself properly, regardless of the state of the build.

Speaking of 1.4.9 can we get it back plz

 

[Bare Jon]

 

[Rev]

Perfect block is an unfun system that belongs in a game like For Honour or Mordhau. It doesn't feel fun in Moviebattles.

 

[Karus]

Perfect block is an unfun system that belongs in a game like For Honour or Mordhau. It doesn't feel fun in Moviebattles.

 

[Biblical]

Add instacounters back please

 

[jacedagoat]

I think the only time that shadow swinging becomes a problem is when someone does it to avoid dying by just spamming it like crazy. Sure, you can counter it, but having to chase people down doing that with 0-10 bp is ridiculous. You can deal with this by just changing one or two things.

1. Make parrying more skillful, rather than people just doing random swings and being able to parry each other, make it so that you at least have to match what plane the swing is coming from to parry (upper plane is w/wa/wd | middle plane a/d | lower plane sa/sd). I'm aware this will change the patch significantly, but I feel like it would change it for the good. I think "parrying" without thinking by just doing a 4 hit is stupid.

2. Make people drop their saber if they try to parry while running (not walking) with 0-10 bp. This won't fix shadow swinging completely, but it will nerf those who abuse it when low.

 

[Karus]

I think the only time that shadow swinging becomes a problem is when someone does it to avoid dying by just spamming it like crazy. Sure, you can counter it, but having to chase people down doing that with 0-10 bp is ridiculous. You can deal with this by just changing one or two things.

1. Make parrying more skillful, rather than people just doing random swings and being able to parry each other, make it so that you at least have to match what plane the swing is coming from to parry (upper plane is w/wa/wd | middle plane a/d | lower plane sa/sd). I'm aware this will change the patch significantly, but I feel like it would change it for the good. I think "parrying" without thinking by just doing a 4 hit is stupid.

2. Make people drop their saber if they try to parry while running (not walking) with 0-10 bp. This won't fix shadow swinging completely, but it will nerf those who abuse it when low.

There are two issues with these solutions.
The first being, if you change how parrying works in this way, it would be a FUNDAMENTAL change.
Not only is it going to be annoying as fuck since it would encourage spam rather than defense (the more time spent attacking = less time spent trying to match swing to parry which = ez) it would also completely change how countering works.
Countering right now is something that nobody is really happy with, so I think a change like that would really just grind people's gears even more.

I think "parrying" without thinking by just doing a 4 hit is stupid.

Parrying is not an issue (at least, I don't think it is).
The issue is hyper aggressive playstyle's and SS/running.
Changing how parrying works in the way you suggested will simply strengthen these playstyles (explained above ^).

Make people drop their saber if they try to parry while running (not walking) with 0-10 bp.

What's stopping people from running when they hit 10-20BP instead of 0 (to avoid dropping saber) ?
All you'd have to do is read the patch notes and you'd still be able to play exactly the same way as you can currently.
Also, this change would fuck all the open Jedi/Sith players.

Personally, I'd love to see a larger counter attack window, and less damage from interrupts (yes, I know interrupts have been nerfed, but imo it's not enough).
Having a longer timeframe to successfully counter somebody who is constantly running is going to be super beneficial.
Not only are you going to be able to reliably counter/parry their attack but you will also be able to chase without losing a fuckton of BP in the process.

If you DO fail the counter however, it's not the end of the world like it is currently. With interrupt damage being nerfed further, failing a counter would not equal BP rape. You should usually be able to mount a sufficient chase if these changes were made.
Also, halfswing abuse wouldn't be as effective/useful (which, by the way, would be a good thing).
Literally the only reason everybody spams halfswings right now is because of how much it can FUCK you if you miss the counter attack window.
I think these two changes are the least difficult to implement from a technical standpoint and I think the majority of the playerbase would welcome it.

The only issue with these changes however, would be that defensive styles would definitely be more viable than offensive one's.
Essentially you would be able to cheese people with constant counters.
But that being said, I believe it would encourage more baiting/manouvering, in order to avoid being countered in the first place.
I think it would lead to some pretty interesting duels.

Add instacounters back please

Biblical.

 

[PuNk]

Parrying is one good thing about this patch. It just negates any damage on both sides, sure you can get some lucky ones but if you don't really know what you're doing with them, when and how you won't really benefit from it in the long run.

 

[Townsend]

There are two issues with these solutions.
The first being, if you change how parrying works in this way, it would be a FUNDAMENTAL change.
Not only is it going to be annoying as fuck since it would encourage spam rather than defense (the more time spent attacking = less time spent trying to match swing to parry which = ez) it would also completely change how countering works.
Countering right now is something that nobody is really happy with, so I think a change like that would really just grind people's gears even more.



Parrying is not an issue (at least, I don't think it is).
The issue is hyper aggressive playstyle's and SS/running.
Changing how parrying works in the way you suggested will simply strengthen these playstyles (explained above ^).


What's stopping people from running when they hit 10-20BP instead of 0 (to avoid dropping saber) ?
All you'd have to do is read the patch notes and you'd still be able to play exactly the same way as you can currently.
Also, this change would fuck all the open Jedi/Sith players.

Personally, I'd love to see a larger counter attack window, and less damage from interrupts (yes, I know interrupts have been nerfed, but imo it's not enough).
Having a longer timeframe to successfully counter somebody who is constantly running is going to be super beneficial.
Not only are you going to be able to reliably counter/parry their attack but you will also be able to chase without losing a fuckton of BP in the process.

If you DO fail the counter however, it's not the end of the world like it is currently. With interrupt damage being nerfed further, failing a counter would not equal BP rape. You should usually be able to mount a sufficient chase if these changes were made.
Also, halfswing abuse wouldn't be as effective/useful (which, by the way, would be a good thing).
Literally the only reason everybody spams halfswings right now is because of how much it can FUCK you if you miss the counter attack window.
I think these two changes are the least difficult to implement from a technical standpoint and I think the majority of the playerbase would welcome it.

The only issue with these changes however, would be that defensive styles would definitely be more viable than offensive one's.
Essentially you would be able to cheese people with constant counters.
But that being said, I believe it would encourage more baiting/manouvering, in order to avoid being countered in the first place.
I think it would lead to some pretty interesting duels.



Biblical.

 

[Noob]

WHAT???? people using footwork???? People not standing still just for you???

 

[Hessu]

Parrying is one good thing about this patch. It just negates any damage on both sides, sure you can get some lucky ones but if you don't really know what you're doing with them, when and how you won't really benefit from it in the long run.

There is nothing good about parries on this patch

 

[Hessu]

This is what is wrong with this patch

 

[PuNk]

There is nothing good about parries on this patch

You wouldn't know what's good if it hit you right in the face, and it hit you plenty of times.

 

[Hessu]

You wouldn't know what's good if it hit you right in the face, and it hit you plenty of times.

Yeah parries are great, neither one loses any bp, and you can just spam parries when you're low on bp like a pussy