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Are devs overcomplicating the saber system?

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by Savage (Ranar), Feb 10, 2017.

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Are devs overcomplicating the saber system?

  1. Yes

  2. No

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. {Δ} Achilles

    {Δ} Achilles Internal Beta Team

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    I enjoyed 1.3, and I have always advocated that the only thing wrong with 1.3 were the way the styles were handled themselves (as well as swingblock lending to spammy fights), and only a couple of styles stood out (Cyan/Blue mostly, and everyone whined about Cyan, despite it being easily countered by good players)

    I can see a need for changing the system somewhat, but I never wanted to change it totally. We had a stable system on 1.3, and I didn't see a need to completely redesign it when we could just perfect what already worked.

    However, Tempest has already put in a lot of work into this new saber system, and I intend to support him as long as he makes *good* changes. I speak my mind fully and freely, so I do not sugar coat stupid ideas as something other than what they are. Was against the block system change, but I will not judge it until I am witness to the complete package.

    I agree, but that is partially because of the weird idea that the devs have regarding swings being blocked causing a 'bounce' back, which is rather dumb, and looks dumb.

    Depends sort of on the style, and the mechanics in use, but I tend to agree.

    Depends on what you mean by 'read', if you still think prediction is a skill, then you need to rethink this stance. Though, keep in mind, knowledge itself has the lowest skill floor. Knowing what to do in situations to win is easy, but what makes highly skilled players is their reaction times, judgement, and dedication to practicing such methodology.

    1.3 had a good answer to that issue, where same-horizontal side swings caused a spin. You could not do WA->SA, or SA->WA, or WA->A etc... without spinning. It meant that when an opponent was attacking you with a swing, he was left with only 3 options at any one time, either WA->WD, or WA->SD, or WA->W. This made the fast swings a still relatively skillful environment, because you could read their swings by looking at their footwork, setup, and other tells. 1.3 also heavily depended upon timing of half swings that could only come from one side on most styles (A), and counter swings. These things actually produced a very skillful and fun environment, and although it wasn't perfect, it didn't merit the retarded leap from 1.3 to 1.4.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
  2. DaloLorn

    DaloLorn Movie Battles II Team

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    Hmmm, you can quite visibly see a pretty even divide between two different 'schools' of sabering emerging from the poll answers - one side has people like SeV, Kas, Aaron and me (most notably SeV), the other has people like Achilles, LoU or Aizen. I wonder what the difference is...

    (Also, yay, I'm the tiebreaker! ;))
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
    Savage (Ranar) and ----Kas---- like this.
  3. Rosh+

    Rosh+ US Official Server Admin

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    If Tempest has his way with it, yes. But if you are asking about the move from the old saber system to the current one, the answer is no. If anything, the saber system has gotten less complicated compared to back then.
     
    lessen likes this.
  4. hleV

    hleV

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    These 1.3 newbs don't know the awesomeness that was V0.1.4, or hell, even V1 was alright. As long as you had enough experience, you could just sit back, relax, and let muscle memory do things for you. Not that complicated eh? That's what I liked about it and what I dislike about the changes that followed. Now you have to stress yourself over every pixel on the screen in order to properly PB, parry and whatnot. Among other things. It wouldn't be a bad thing in a competetive game with stats/leaderboards/etc., but MB2 is not like that. It used to be fun, but then it no longer was.
     
    Chaos the Chaotic and Cake' like this.
  5. Savage (Ranar)

    Savage (Ranar)

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    "These 1.3 newbs" < This comment was not necessary. Please keep respect while commenting on this thread or do not comment at all. Thank you. :)
     
    AaronAaron likes this.
  6. SeV

    SeV Internal Beta Team EU Official Server Admin

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    Afaik 1.3 gave rise to some extremely skilled duelists, so saying newbs is probably wrong. I do think however, that those starting in later builds do not share the same understanding of the saber system as oldfag duelists who have played through and adapted to many good and bad changes over the years. I think there is a vaster font of experience to draw on when making a good saber system from these players than from 1.3 players like Achilles, but I don't think that this is any reason to dismiss their suggestions though.

    With stassin, 1.3 and aimed PB we saw the beginning of a new era in dueling. Many oldfags miss certain aspects and feelings from before that time and I think they are for the most part justified in missing them, since some parts just felt better to play even if something like 1.3 and aimed PB is an objective improvement a feeling was lost. One part of tempests struggle is to attempt to join two eras of sabering into one and revive the feels from the good old systems and combine it with the sensibility of post 1.3 systems with aimed PB and polished mechanics. Not an easy task, and not a task that can be done with simplicity. Some amount of complication is inevitable and probably desirable in the pursuit of a superior saber system.
     
  7. hleV

    hleV

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    Yes it was. 1.3 newbs need to know their place.

    You can call me V0 newb, as I haven't experienced the supposed awesomeness of beta builds.
     
    Chaos the Chaotic likes this.
  8. LoU

    LoU Space Janitor Project Leader Movie Battles II Team

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    You would love b19/rc1/rcx-beforestagger/
     
  9. AaronAaron

    AaronAaron Contributor Internal Beta Team

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    pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft

    everyone after 1.3 is a noob regardless of skill. Even if you're the best, you could never beat an old player in their PRIME
     
  10. SeV

    SeV Internal Beta Team EU Official Server Admin

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    B19. Never again. x.x
     
  11. Vizino

    Vizino

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    imo if its not what it is, it kinda reminds me of just base jka, and the added complexity of it kinda adds for like truly mastering a style
     
  12. SK55555555555555555

    SK55555555555555555 Internal Beta Team EU Official Server Admin

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    MB2 in a nutshell

    Introduce something new: Old players whine because they think the mod should not evolve and they wanna stay pro by not playing.
    Nerf op stuff: Noobs start whining because they thought they actually were decent players.
     
    The Unguided and hleV like this.
  13. Sammy

    Sammy Master of Whispers Contributor Internal Beta Team

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    people will still find a way to like dueling. you say you won't but you will

    also: remove cyan, purple, dualies, staff kthx
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  14. Chaos the Chaotic

    Chaos the Chaotic

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    B19 was shit.
    I was a top duelist in that horrid build and you want to know the irony?
    The hud ate my fps so I had it disabled and played blind that entire build. Using just audio and instinct to win 90% of duels.

    No hudfiles back then.
     
    ----Kas---- likes this.
  15. Spock

    Spock

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    Live long and prosper
     
  16. Chaos the Chaotic

    Chaos the Chaotic

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    Can I eat him?
     
    Puppytine likes this.
  17. hleV

    hleV

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    Perhaps you won 90% duels because others haven't had their HUD disabled and thus had their FPS eaten? xD
     
    DaloLorn likes this.
  18. Chaos the Chaotic

    Chaos the Chaotic

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    Huh.

    Never thought of that. Nah, my pc sucked.
    Even the one I upgraded to sucks.

    Waiting for a part to arrive so I can play again.
    Who knew discboards were so fragile?

    Like crackerlike.
     

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