ARC suggestion

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

With the Dex 3 change allowing them to shoot from the floor ARCs feel a lot less fun than they used to. To spice things up is it possible to add in melee abilities like the jump kick while having weapons out? This will be awkward where buttons are concerned so is it worth adding a third class special button?

 

[andrew]

What the heck are you on about? A class isn't in a good state because another class is weaker, they all have roles to fill and the arc fulfills his role absolutely fine at the moment (mobile assault and anti-sbd/deka capabilities) the only issues are with cost of certain abilities but these are most likely for balance to some degree, an arc with emps, dex 3 and a westar m5 is a recipe for pain.

that wasn't my point, my point was you were saying "arc is fine because i do well on it" which doesn't speak about balance in a meaningful way

the class is fully capable of being competitive and without any overpowered aspects to it, the class is absolutely fine in the hands of players who understand how to play it which pretty much negates all balance concerns from people who seemingly don't play the class or play it very little, balance concerns and balance changes are made if a class is overperforming or underperforming, not if people who can't play the class want the class to be easier or harder to play.

arc is undeniably clunky atm. the acrobatics bugfix will help to mitigate this somewhat, but you're still severely limited while playing arc because the point distribution is awful.

The pistols however are.. another situation, I don't use them beyond rank 2 as their skill cap is far, far higher and they are rendered almost unusable by a dexterity 3 playstyle because of this, westar m5 tends to serve me better but that's a matter of opinion.

use what works for you for sure, but the westar is for the most part a worse e-11 while the pistols are incredibly powerful when mastered and also fully compatible with dexterity (i dont understand how you say they are rendered unusable just because you're wallrunning or jumping)

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

arc is undeniably clunky atm. the acrobatics bugfix will help to mitigate this somewhat, but you're still severely limited while playing arc because the point distribution is awful.

use what works for you for sure, but the westar is for the most part a worse e-11 while the pistols are incredibly powerful when mastered and also fully compatible with dexterity (i dont understand how you say they are rendered unusable just because you're wallrunning or jumping)

Clunky? the only thing I would consider clunky on arc is wallrunning around corners, everything else works as intended and works smoothly, I've honestly got no idea what you're talking about when you say that arc is clunky. I won't disagree that the point distribution is very.. odd on arc but as said in the thread, I think the best solution would be to just reduce the cost on the first grenade to 4 or 5 pts, would be more more manageable that way.

Westar has higher projectile travel speed & faster half & full reload than the E-11 as well as being pinpoint accurate on the move it also moves from one point to the crosshair directly rather than to the left and right of the crosshair in close combat, this makes it invaluable if you're trying to headshot someone at close range, the pistols are great for longer range combat but they're nearly pointless up close due to the convergence, only way to compensate is to move the mouse slightly to the left and right of the target every time you fire to get a headshot at CQB ranges, the pistols are rendered unusable when wallrunning or jumping as you have to line up a shot and keep it accurate with a very low ROF compared to Westar m5.

I have yet to see an arc capable of performing accurate fire with the dualies while performing dex 3 moves versus a competent opponent, the only other person who I would suspect being capable of such as arc would be Kael from GAR but he too uses the westar m5 in most situations for the reasons I've listed.

 

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

Clunky? the only thing I would consider clunky on arc is wallrunning around corners, everything else works as intended and works smoothly, I've honestly got no idea what you're talking about when you say that arc is clunky. I won't disagree that the point distribution is very.. odd on arc but as said in the thread, I think the best solution would be to just reduce the cost on the first grenade to 4 or 5 pts, would be more more manageable that way.

There's a bug where dive doesn't work if it detects a barrier, so the dive doesn't activate but it still starts the cooldown. It's really unreliable when trying to escape things, particularly in enclosed spaces. It's got me killed more times than I can count.

I have yet to see an arc capable of performing accurate fire while performing dex 3 moves versus a competent opponent, the only other person who I would suspect being capable of such as arc would be Kael from GAR but he too uses the westar m5 in most situations for the reasons I've listed.

Nor have, not for a very, very long time at least.

The problems I've had is I feel Dexterity when compared to other abilities with similar point costs is lacking. The pistols are difficult but bounce shots are amazing, M5 is not as good as an E11, EE3, T21 for close range and is only better than the T21 at range. It's a cheaper weapon though which is a benefit.

My wishes are for the cooldowns to be removed entirely for ARC dive, the stamina bar is there to reign it in, the cooldown isn't necessary IMO. I'd also like ARC stamina to last longer, the M5 to have a slightly higher clip size and some more dexterity moves to mix it up like a brief wallgrab you could then jump or dive from.

Pistols could maybe do with a small damage boost but that's a toughie since they're pretty brutal when you get going with them, they're just hard work to get right.

Of course adding all of the above would be excessive, they're just individual items I feel could do with a look at.

 

[HARDCASE]

imo all arc needs is maybe a grapple hook and some less costly dexterity/grenades

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

There's a bug where dive doesn't work if it detects a barrier, so the dive doesn't activate but it still starts the cooldown. It's really unreliable when trying to escape things, particularly in enclosed spaces. It's got me killed more times than I can count.

anim bug? yeah, that's been around for a long while, also happens with getup animations or knockdowns where characters keep running on the spot.

The problems I've had is I feel Dexterity when compared to other abilities with similar point costs is lacking. The pistols are difficult but bounce shots are amazing, M5 is not as good as an E11, EE3, T21 for close range and is only better than the T21 at range. It's a cheaper weapon though which is a benefit.

Dexterity is expensive but it gives the ARC a LOT of power, you get to attack from a vertical angle at any point in your fight and can be used to crazy good effect versus snipers to attack from unexpected heights and angles.

M5 is not as good as an E-11 at range? against who have you been playing lol? the weapon is pinpoint on the move & has a faster travel time, gives you all the edge you need, won't argue t-21 as its a different class of weapon and the ee-3 is a quickscope sniper rifle, it's shit in close range because of low firerate.

My wishes are for the cooldowns to be removed entirely for ARC dive, the stamina bar is there to reign it in, the cooldown isn't necessary IMO. I'd also like ARC stamina to last longer, the M5 to have a slightly higher clip size and some more dexterity moves to mix it up like a brief wallgrab you could then jump or dive from.

Trust me when I say that the cooldown is the only thing keeping ARC from being overpowered. If I could spam lunge/dive you can bet that siths would become obsolete on any server I play, jesus christ. I think even average ARCs would be able to avoid basically everything coming their way if they could just lunge/dive away from danger considering that forwards dive/lunge is immune to push and only drains 1/6th of the stamina at stamina level 3.

If anything, remove melee jumpkick, uppercut & various other cooldowns for anyone with dexterity 3 as a buff but don't make it so people can spam the abilities or it'll get ugly, fast. Stamina is also absolutely fine atm, you can perform like 4 wallruns without incident and as long as you manage your stamina, you'll never run out in a pinch.

Won't argue against m5 clip size buffs though, that shit runs out on me all the time. I'd like to see more ammo for the westar m5 too, make it a bit more competitive as as suppression fire weapon by buffing the ammo at ammo 0 to 240 (120 shots), ammo 1, 300 (150 shots), ammo 2, 440(220 shots), ammo 3, 600 (300 shots).

Have no opinion on additional dex moves but they do sound cool.

Pistols could maybe do with a small damage boost but that's a toughie since they're pretty brutal when you get going with them, they're just hard work to get right.

Of course adding all of the above would be excessive, they're just individual items I feel could do with a look at.

The problem with dualies (and this goes for any dual pistols in the game, open & fa) isn't the damage, it's the convergence. You miss half your shots at close range because of the spread to the left and right of the crosshair, they need to be made to converge far sooner and form into one bolt or something along those lines because atm, they're way too unreliable for anyone to use consistenly as ARC and also do well as ARC.

 

[andrew]

I have yet to see an arc capable of performing accurate fire while performing dex 3 moves versus a competent opponent, the only other person who I would suspect being capable of such as arc would be Kael from GAR but he too uses the westar m5 in most situations for the reasons I've listed.

O_ o

The problem with dualies (and this goes for any dual pistols in the game, open & fa) isn't the damage, it's the convergence. You miss half your shots at close range because of the spread to the left and right of the crosshair, they need to be made to converge far sooner and form into one bolt or something along those lines because atm, they're way too unreliable for anyone to use consistenly as ARC and also do well as ARC.

O_ o

 

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

Dexterity is expensive but it gives the ARC a LOT of power, you get to attack from a vertical angle at any point in your fight and can be used to crazy good effect versus snipers to attack from unexpected heights and angles.

While true, Wookiee strength or health is superior, jetpack is superior, push and pull are superior and cost half as much, Reinforcements is superior as well. It's not the ability that's the issue, it's the cost compared to other abilities.

M5 is not as good as an E-11 at range? against who have you been playing lol? the weapon is pinpoint on the move & has a faster travel time, gives you all the edge you need, won't argue t-21 as its a different class of weapon and the ee-3 is a quickscope sniper rifle, it's shit in close range because of low firerate.

E11 is brutal in almost all situations. M5 may be able to fire accurately when running with Dex 3 but you'll have reloaded 3-4 times by the time E11 even thinks about it. This gives the E11 a better DPS for very similar accuracy.

Trust me when I say that the cooldown is the only thing keeping ARC from being overpowered. If I could spam lunge/dive you can bet that siths would become obsolete on any server I play, jesus christ. I think even average ARCs would be able to avoid basically everything coming their way if they could just lunge/dive away from danger considering that forwards dive/lunge is immune to push and only drains 1/6th of the stamina at stamina level 3.

If anything, remove melee jumpkick, uppercut & various other cooldowns for anyone with dexterity 3 as a buff but don't make it so people can spam the abilities or it'll get ugly, fast. Stamina is also absolutely fine atm, you can perform like 4 wallruns without incident and as long as you manage your stamina, you'll never run out in a pinch.

The main reason I suggest this is to give ARCs more freedom of movement. That's what makes them fun, having restrictions in when you can escape severely reduces it, it's also why I suggested extra dexterity moves because it will further add to that.

Won't argue against m5 clip size buffs though, that shit runs out on me all the time. I'd like to see more ammo for the westar m5 too, make it a bit more competitive as as suppression fire weapon by buffing the ammo at ammo 0 to 240 (120 shots), ammo 1, 300 (150 shots), ammo 2, 440(220 shots), ammo 3, 600 (300 shots).

I'd suggest not increasing total ammo. It's too high for every single gunner class as it is, makes buying ammo 3 for a lot of classes unnecessary and the game becomes a total sprayfest because there's no need to be careful with your shots. Increase clip size for sure though.

The problem with dualies (and this goes for any dual pistols in the game, open & fa) isn't the damage, it's the convergence. You miss half your shots at close range because of the spread to the left and right of the crosshair, they need to be made to converge far sooner and form into one bolt or something along those lines because atm, they're way too unreliable for anyone to use consistently as ARC and also do well as ARC.

This only ever caused me a problem when going for headshots, up close if you aim for the chest both shots will generally hit. That's why I suggested a minor damage buff because getting headshots with them is so difficult. On the other hand I do feel like the HS multiplier should be reduced, will make damage less erratic.

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

While true, Wookiee strength or health is superior, jetpack is superior, push and pull are superior and cost half as much, Reinforcements is superior as well. It's not the ability that's the issue, it's the cost compared to other abilities.

Fair enough, in that aspect I can see the cost being iffy and could see a reduction in price being worthwhile but the problem with this is that everyone would take Dex 3 in almost every build, it'd become a guaranteed points choice rather than an actual decision due to the cost.

At the same time though, it's 30 points because it gives you powers that need to lock out certain other options in order to be balanced, an arc with dexterity 3, armor 3, ammo 3, dual pistols & grenades will be an incredible pain to deal with for teams with SBDs & Dekas, I can see why the cost of dexterity is so high, not because it's better than other abilities for its cost but because it balances arc out by restricting access to certain other powerful abilities in the same loadout.

E11 is brutal in almost all situations. M5 may be able to fire accurately when running with Dex 3 but you'll have reloaded 3-4 times by the time E11 even thinks about it. This gives the E11 a better DPS for very similar accuracy.

Very similar accuracy? not true, at all. Feel free to hop in game and compare the two because they play very differently, the lower projectile velocity of the e-11 also means that corner shots & long range are easier to perform with the Westar m5, its only real downside is the clip size but the faster reload more than makes up for it. DPS is similar but most weapons in mb2 that fire full auto have pretty similar damage outputs beyond their sniper modes.

The main reason I suggest this is to give ARCs more freedom of movement. That's what makes them fun, having restrictions in when you can escape severely reduces it, it's also why I suggested extra dexterity moves because it will further add to that.

The problem is that having dexterity unlimited and allowing for infinite moves without cooldown means that the class is actually overpowered, instead of an opponent being able to somewhat counter your tactics he is forced to adjust as you are able to lunge and then suddenly backwards lunge within the span of about a second and no cooldown with plenty of stamina to go, it creates an issue where the ability gives you too much power and cannot be countered without force powers or grenades and allows even a mediocre ARC player to perform wonders of acrobatics without any skill compared to the current system.

I'm of neutral opinion on additional moves, as long as they don't mess with the current ones, not bothered.

I'd suggest not increasing total ammo. It's too high for every single gunner class as it is, makes buying ammo 3 for a lot of classes unnecessary and the game becomes a total sprayfest because there's no need to be careful with your shots. Increase clip size for sure though.

Ideally they'd reduce the overall ammo for all guns & classes, in which case, just up the clip size a bit but otherwise, overall more ammo is required for the weapon to last as long as other guns, I basically have to use it as a battle rifle in most situations (semi auto) before the actual fight due to low ammo count. At max rank ammo it's only like 140 shots.

This only ever caused me a problem when going for headshots, up close if you aim for the chest both shots will generally hit. That's why I suggested a minor damage buff because getting headshots with them is so difficult. On the other hand I do feel like the HS multiplier should be reduced, will make damage less erratic.

Headshots are pretty much the ideal way to kill people as gunner, it's almost all I go for with the Westar because it is far more accurate without convergence issues.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Why not just have both versions of dex available and let the user choose at their leisure which they want to have?

Current get-up or the auto-roll.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Why not just have both versions of dex available and let the user choose at their leisure which they want to have?

Current get-up or the auto-roll.

That is...
Not the worst thing to be suggested.

I was not around with there was a auto roll, so I kinda of want to see what its like.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Like a flotation device that rolls.

 

[SomeGuy]

Be an ARC with Dex 3 and have a Sith use Repulse on you. That's kind of what the auto roll was like.

Personally I like the new Dex more than the old, mainly because you can shoot while down and getting up. Plus get up kicking Sith is hilarious.

 

[StarWarsGeek]

Since this has been bumped anyway, I just wanna point out that the 1.4 flinch mechanic makes the new dex getups even more superior to autoroll.

More control, less potential to be abused against you, the ability to shoot, and now the slightly shorter distance won't matter because with good aim you can stop the sith from swinging.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Oh clones and Arcs wreck shit in 1.4. They are unstoppable if there is a group of 4 and they coordinate.
I like it, but nobody really plays soldier on imps unless like there is a clan or something. And that is the best class to fight clone spam.

Soldiers and Cmdrs counter clones very well if they include grenades in their builds.
With a guy dedicated as a spawn point, to give them their buffs, avoiding the droid classes,
You got it nailed.

Assuming your whole team isn't the new broken lighting spamming sith lords.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Be an ARC with Dex 3 and have a Sith use Repulse on you. That's kind of what the auto roll was like.

Personally I like the new Dex more than the old, mainly because you can shoot while down and getting up. Plus get up kicking Sith is hilarious.

Am I mis-remembering things? Autoroll was superior. You could shoot during it or it was a more seamless transition. Something.
Unless you mean Completely knocked down...

Even so, the pause in firing is rather irritating Before it flowed better and its just too reminiscent of heroes now.

Would: Revert to old dex and then give fire while shoot to heroes as an option replacing Dash

 

[SomeGuy]

Am I mis-remembering things? Autoroll was superior. You could shoot during it or it was a more seamless transition. Something.
Unless you mean Completely knocked down...

Even so, the pause in firing is rather irritating Before it flowed better and its just too reminiscent of heroes now.

Would: Revert to old dex and then give fire while shoot to heroes as an option replacing Dash

Wh-what? I can't really understand that last part. But as I remember the old Dex, every time you got forced into an auto roll it stopped all shooting. This made push spammers easily kill you up close if you were running by forcing your roll to stop the fire and then slice. It was just nice that you never actually fell down unless they got you while you were jumping.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

The pause felt shorter to me. Few times pushed, I autorolled forward and would still be able to hs the sith during the push opening...Or maybe it was just a trick that I was firing at him while he pushed - which makes me even better than I thought

Animations aside, what's the time difference? If any.