ARC suggestion

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

With the Dex 3 change allowing them to shoot from the floor ARCs feel a lot less fun than they used to. To spice things up is it possible to add in melee abilities like the jump kick while having weapons out? This will be awkward where buttons are concerned so is it worth adding a third class special button?

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Man I wish I had more time to practice this shit.

 

[Preston]

What about a perk system? If you combine Dexterity 3 and Stamina 3 you get bonuses like reduces stamina drain or additional moves like a second wall jump or being able to dive off a wall jump.

NO! MORE! PERKS JDJFDCJNDJDJ

 

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

I'm all for buffing ARC, but ARCs new control over getups and being able to shoot during them is vastly more helpful than autoroll ever was. I wouldn't mind seeing autorolls come back if you could shoot during them, but without the ability to shoot they'd just be a nerf as they could be abused with push/pull to make the ARC a free kill.

I didn't get the dex abuse too much before but less than now. While the current dex is still useful its definitely not worth the points for level 3. My biggest complaint is there's not much freedom of movement which is what makes ARC so fun. Auto roll helped that a lot but it could be abused due to the funky rolls. I think it would have been better changing the roll than changing the whole thing.

As I've suggested already I'd love to see more acrobatic ability in the future like bouncing off walls Jackie Chan style and maybe being able to ARC dive off the walls for epic escapes. Its just the push resistance that needs amending for now IMO. It's practical but boring.

 

[andrew]

It was hardly impossible, it was very easy to do, especially with pull.


You can definitely start shooting during the getups before the autoroll would have been over. Either way, autoroll typically "forced" movement in whichever direction you were running when you got pushed/pulled (unless you have superhuman reflexes and could predict the push/pull before it happened) while the new getups don't force movement.

I'm all for buffing ARC, but ARCs new control over getups and being able to shoot during them is vastly more helpful than autoroll ever was. I wouldn't mind seeing autorolls come back if you could shoot during them, but without the ability to shoot they'd just be a nerf as they could be abused with push/pull to make the ARC a free kill.

maaaan idk, both as playing arc vs sith and as sith vs arc i feel like its significantly easier now than it used to be

the dead time they spend on the ground feels extremely crippling and abusable

i find it hard to believe that its easier to kills arcs solely based on the nerfed pistols and game mechanics (lowered knockback on weapons)

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

I personally find arcs easier to kill and die as than before. I lay it square on the get up change. I enjoyed the autorolls, made arcs arcs
Now, it's like hero roll and shoot after brief pause. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Note: You were already rolling at the impact of a push - there is a delay with the current which pretty much gives you more time to close and lets not forget you traveled further with autoroll than the standard you have now. Spacing is key: (

 

[StarWarsGeek]

Note: You were already rolling at the impact of a push - there is a delay with the current which pretty much gives you more time to close and lets not forget you traveled further with autoroll than the standard you have now. Spacing is key: (

Spacing was key, for the Sith. All you had to do as a Sith is wait to push until you were close enough to the ARC to slash him during his autoroll. Can be difficult if the ARC is running backwards, but if he runs sideways or towards you for a brief moment you can push and slash him before the roll is over. He has to run sideways or toward you eventually or he'll run too close to a wall or some cover. If he does make that mistake, he's dead anyway because pushing him into the wall negates the distance he could have gained off autoroll. If you have pull, he's dead anyway even if he is running backwards, because you're close enough to swing before the roll is over.

Autoroll was only good against Sith that just impatiently spammed push. A Sith with even the slightest bit of patience or with pull meant a dead dex3 ARC. I loved seeing dex3 arcs while playing as a Sith because autorolls meant I had a free kill, and an even lower effort free kill if I bought pull.

Also, if I'm remembering correctly, autorolls did nothing to protect you from being pushed while mid-air. So if you wanted to take (dis)advantage of your autorolls, you had to not use all the acrobatic stuff from dex2 while fighting Sith. Acrobatics are now a valid tool while fighting Sith because of the new quick getups and shooting.

 

[andrew]

counterpoint: arcs can also use shift in those situations, and good ones did so.

sith that thought push or pull was a moment of complete safety often got headshot and pushed back well outside of swing range. autoroll allowed for complete and safe immunity outside of that range, and it's been a long time but i'd really find to hard to believe that the push vulnerability was shorter than the autoroll

acrobatics are pretty easy to abuse and i'm almost certain they're a guaranteed kill on most maps. i think the only places you can realistically use acrobatics against push are places like hangar, where gunners are generally able to outmaneuver sith anyway.

imo push is significantly better against current dex, and pull is about even, perhaps slightly favored to old dex

 

[StarWarsGeek]

Push vulnerability was definitely shorter than the autoroll. And if you were forced to walk anyway with dex3, what was the point of buying it? It just ended up being a crutch that might save you if you didn't walk at the right time, or might let the sith kill you anyway. It still depended on walking at the right times and landing a shot when they push, just like it would have if you hadn't bought dex3.

Acrobatics can be easy to abuse (especially with pull), but they were even easier to abuse before. They aren't nearly easy for a Sith to take advantage of as autorolls were though. With push against acrobatics, ARCs just end up gaining distance most of the time.

The most important advantage of the new getups over autorolls is that you can start shooting sooner. Autorolls gave you more distance, but that only helped against push and only if you were running away from the Sith. This is the only scenario that autorolls might be more helpful than current getups in, and IMO that's mostly if not completely offset by the ability to shoot sooner and have more control over the direction you roll/kick in. A Sith that you've gained some distance on could still end up killing you, a Sith that you've shot up is dead.

TBH, the distance you gain from a push + backwards kick getup is probably almost equal or equal to the autoroll distance anyway, and with the advantage of being able to shoot earlier I don't see how it's not better.

 

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

Its not just the distance, a Sith can close that gap pretty quick and the length of time you're on the floor is longer. Shooting from the floor is great and all but I think I've only ever had one kill from it due to Sith's random tankiness.

The biggest issue here isn't which version of dexterity is worse, its that neither are really worth the points. When you consider the things that abilities with similar points can do its a pretty crap ability. If I'm not mistaken dexterity 3 costs 30 points and its recommended to get stamina 2 or 3 with it so that's 40-45 points. Since the ability is both unreliable, abusable by your opponents and you still have to walk like everyone else its just not worth the cash. I've been sticking with dexterity 2 since it means I can get a pulse grenade or a rocket as well.

Look at something like push, does so much more for so little, Mandalorian jetpack is a similar price but better, reinforcements is a similar price but better, wookiee strength is a similar price but better.

I'd like to see the old ARC roll return but the mechanics less abusable maybe make it so the roll always goes away from the force power or explosive in question. Maybe try out shooting during the roll as well but that might be overpowered. With the dive being fixed soon that will help as well.
I wouldn't mind seeing some extra acrobatics as mentioned earlier in the thread, jumping or diving off walls after a timed hang to access higher locations or make cool escapes.

 

[andrew]

personally i don't agree with the current dex being better than old dex

you spend more time on the ground, and are just as abusable as every other gunner. being able to use walking as old dex arc in certain/critical situations can hardly be brushed off as easily as you did.

if you put HiC on current dex arc, and HiC on current arc with old dex, i'm pretty sure he'd dominate twice as hard with the old autoroll

 

[Jeob]

I'm surprised everybody just compares the new and old dex 3 vs siths.

So let's bring the issue of gunners vs dex 3 arcs forward. Against gunners the new dex 3 is far better, I remember how a commander with t-21 lvl 2+frag nade was one of the worst nightmare for the old dex 3. While you were autorolling, you got blasted to oblivion. With the new dex 3 doing a side roll and shooting gives you way better chances. I would say it often gives you a free shot/kill too, as almost everyone has the habit to stop moving after gaining a knock down on the opponent, and if the player keeps running then he can't really capitalize on the knockdown (except with a gun that's accurate while running).

Regarding dex 3 vs siths. I believe that the old dex 3 was better against push too, against pull the new dex 3 is better, but the only buff vs pull is that you can shoot and hope to kill while you are about to get slashed down.

One disadvantage of the old dex 3 was that getting pushed/pulled while jumping knocked you down and you didn't do an auto roll. So jumping around was risky and generally a bad idea with old dex 3. With the new dex 3 you can go for your getups even after getting pushed down from air. This just really encourages you to jump against push siths, as you gain way more distance if you get pushed and in that case you can recover for sure before the sith could reach you (unless there's a wall behind you).

"And if you were forced to walk anyway with dex3, what was the point of buying it?" Starwarsgeek
Does the ability aim to eliminate the fear of running and getting pushed? If yes, then it should be something really different. With both the old and new dex 3 you are/were forced to walk.

The best thing dex 3 offered/offers you against siths was backroll+shoot. Then heroes got dash, which is cheaper and better vs siths.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

The current Arc is good against gunners because of the flexibility of their weapons, and their unique dodging mechanics.

Fighting the the droid classes as an Arc has always been easy for me with and without pulse grenades because I can jump behind, and on top of them. And just jump for days around them. Its nice that you can shoot while getting knocked over, but I would not consider ARC a good class to fight sith with. The gloan class would yield better results because of their concussion blasts, firing speeds, and additional spawn. If not the gloan then the hero class because you can just dash the moment their saber animates, and its a faster animation with no recovery versus the arc roll.

What I would do is shorten the range of the roll and make the recovery animation from the roll faster.

Now this part, I don't know if this is intended or not but the hitbox on the arc roll is bigger than the model instead of decreasing in size or matching it. The arc holds his legs and it looks like a sonic spindash roll. I checked some footage of mine and notice they can get hit without the blaster bolts even hitting the model. Just slightly above their backs, if the person is not shooting in front of the roll.

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

A lot of people are posting about how the ARC dexterity costs too much and doesn't perform for the cost and various other suggestions for buffs, I'd like to ask these people (and anyone interested) to come and play some moviebattles 2 with me sometime, I'll demonstrate what exactly a good ARC can do, especially with wallruns, lunge & wallflips.

Honestly though at this point I'd recommend leaving ARC alone entirely, the dexterity system atm is already better than auto-roll for skilled players. The class is nearly perfectly balanced, it requires skill & timing to play well versus good gunners & sith I play practically nothing else in MB2 and I've gotta say, it feels unique and competitive as is. For sure, no further buffs are required, if anything I'd recommend increasing the damage on lightning vs ARC, it's a pain to counter a good ARC, I know from experience on EU servers, BG servers & various other servers that when I play ARC, most of the sith & even gunner players get very annoyed very quickly and being fair, enough of this modest shite, I'm probably the best ARC EU and often end up carrying my team to victory in 1v4s or more, as arrogant as it may sound, it happens on every server I play unless I've taken a break from MB2.

The largest factor to ARC play atm is positioning & timing, I think the class is perfect as is in its role as a mobile gunner with heavy armor to back it up, it's limited on ammo and can be worn down through constant attack (stamina) but a good player can carry through all, I'd say if anything what should be done is grenades should be made cheaper to encourage more EMP-related ARC play and then I'd also recommend having a look at the hero class, snipers shouldn't be able to dodge as much as the hero/bh do at the moment, in my opinion.

 

[Preston]

I honestly just feel like arc is sorta like mando. They both kinda suck until you play them alot, and once you're good at the class you're almost unstoppable. Maybe some day ill learn how to aim decent with freaking dual pistols

 

[Onysfx]

I agree with appo, only thing that needs changing at the moment is making the pulse nades cheaper.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

I still think they should be given some versatility stuff to their kit.
Instead of nerfing the cost to their nades, giving 2 per pop doesn't seem too much of an issue.

I honestly just feel like arc is sorta like mando. They both kinda suck until you play them alot, and once you're good at the class you're almost unstoppable. Maybe some day ill learn how to aim decent with freaking dual pistols

As a dark souls, moba and fighter game player. There are people who can do amazing things with low tiers or stuff considered bad or under powered.

I call this the Dan effect, the Dan effect is a coin term referencing street fighter. There is a character called Dan, and he is a joke character. He is by design to be bad and under powered compared to the other fighters. He is like that because of lore reasons, however in the competitive scene. People managed to do some great things with Dan.

However not everyone can use Dan like the people who main him, there will always be people who can make diamonds out of a pile of shit. However in this case, the class is I would say average at best compared to the others, the arc is good, but he is not really a class that can support his team outside of getting kills.

The Arc sniper attachment has great potential to provide more support, however the mando can out snipe an arc by simply having better positioning. Mandalorians are like ninjas with jetpacks, you can hide anywhere and snipe people. And that itself provides a good way for the mando to support his team by area denial. Heros and BH's cant really hide like mandos can, they are not vertically versatile.

If Arcs can reach heights like mando's can, I think they can fill that gap the rebel team is missing in terms of support roles.

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

I still think they should be given some versatility stuff to their kit.
Instead of nerfing the cost to their nades, giving 2 per pop doesn't seem too much of an issue.

10 pts for 2 emps is a lot, especially for a grenade that does bugger all damage and is reliant on a follow up to be fully effective. Not great, especially when considered in comparison with getting dex 3 stam 3 over any nades/attachments for the Westar.

They give a lot of utility to the arc for teamplay but nearly pointless outside of the competitive scene, which is non-existent atm.

The Arc sniper attachment has great potential to provide more support, however the mando can out snipe an arc by simply having better positioning. Mandalorians are like ninjas with jetpacks, you can hide anywhere and snipe people. And that itself provides a good way for the mando to support his team by area denial. Heros and BH's cant really hide like mandos can, they are not vertically versatile.

If Arcs can reach heights like mando's can, I think they can fill that gap the rebel team is missing in terms of support roles.

Arc Sniper is pointless due to point cost & ammo usage on a low-ammo capacity weapon 10 (5 shots) ammo for 6 (3 shots) ammo's worth of damage unless you land a headshot plus incredibly low travel speed makes it retarded to use, just get a hero with a proj for far more efficient sniping.

I wouldn't mind seeing a grappling hook or grapple launcher for the arc, gives him more versatility but at the same time, what does mando get? arc is already incredibly mobile and capable of dodging sith, gunner & explosive damage in the middle of the DOTF 1st main corridor vs 6 people because of his rolls and dodges in the hands of a good player.

But personally I think it'd be better to just give arc one free EMP grenade regardless of loadout, let them focus on dealing with droids as a primary focus (sbd, deka) and get a few points back to make the rest of the loadout more team oriented rather than building a loadout that prevents instadeath (dex 3 + stam 3 + armor 3 are almost mandatory vs a decent team)

 

[andrew]

A lot of people are posting about how the ARC dexterity costs too much and doesn't perform for the cost and various other suggestions for buffs, I'd like to ask these people (and anyone interested) to come and play some moviebattles 2 with me sometime, I'll demonstrate what exactly a good ARC can do, especially with wallruns, lunge & wallflips.

Honestly though at this point I'd recommend leaving ARC alone entirely, the dexterity system atm is already better than auto-roll for skilled players. The class is nearly perfectly balanced, it requires skill & timing to play well versus good gunners & sith I play practically nothing else in MB2 and I've gotta say, it feels unique and competitive as is. For sure, no further buffs are required, if anything I'd recommend increasing the damage on lightning vs ARC, it's a pain to counter a good ARC, I know from experience on EU servers, BG servers & various other servers that when I play ARC, most of the sith & even gunner players get very annoyed very quickly and being fair, enough of this modest shite, I'm probably the best ARC EU and often end up carrying my team to victory in 1v4s or more, as arrogant as it may sound, it happens on every server I play unless I've taken a break from MB2.

The largest factor to ARC play atm is positioning & timing, I think the class is perfect as is in its role as a mobile gunner with heavy armor to back it up, it's limited on ammo and can be worn down through constant attack (stamina) but a good player can carry through all, I'd say if anything what should be done is grenades should be made cheaper to encourage more EMP-related ARC play and then I'd also recommend having a look at the hero class, snipers shouldn't be able to dodge as much as the hero/bh do at the moment, in my opinion.

i don't see how this post does anything to talk about the balance of the class

if you nearly exclusively play arc its not a surprise that you'd be skilled at it. if you made a post saying, "i play mandalorian and arc equally and i'm very skilled at both, but i succeed much more with arc. i think arc is in a very good state!" i'd be much more inclined to think theres something to your post.

as it stands now you basically said "im good at mb2" which very well may be true. every class in this game succeeds with proper positioning and timing + good aim. arc makes significant tradeoffs to enable the dex playstyle, both in point cost and in developer design. their pistols are quite possibly the highest skillcap weapon in the game and are imo the centerpiece of the class played skillfully, but id still rather have them + autoroll than them + current dex

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

i don't see how this post does anything to talk about the balance of the class

if you nearly exclusively play arc its not a surprise that you'd be skilled at it. if you made a post saying, "i play mandalorian and arc equally and i'm very skilled at both, but i succeed much more with arc. i think arc is in a very good state!" i'd be much more inclined to think theres something to your post.

as it stands now you basically said "im good at mb2" which very well may be true. every class in this game succeeds with proper positioning and timing + good aim. arc makes significant tradeoffs to enable the dex playstyle, both in point cost and in developer design. their pistols are quite possibly the highest skillcap weapon in the game and are imo the centerpiece of the class played skillfully, but id still rather have them + autoroll than them + current dex

What the heck are you on about? A class isn't in a good state because another class is weaker, they all have roles to fill and the arc fulfills his role absolutely fine at the moment (mobile assault and anti-sbd/deka capabilities) the only issues are with cost of certain abilities but these are most likely for balance to some degree, an arc with emps, dex 3 and a westar m5 is a recipe for pain.

My post is in response to the comments that arc is in need of balancing whether that be buffs or nerfs, the class is fully capable of being competitive and without any overpowered aspects to it, the class is absolutely fine in the hands of players who understand how to play it which pretty much negates all balance concerns from people who seemingly don't play the class or play it very little, balance concerns and balance changes are made if a class is overperforming or underperforming, not if people who can't play the class want the class to be easier or harder to play.

The pistols however are.. another situation, I don't use them beyond rank 2 as their skill cap is far, far higher and they are rendered almost unusable by a dexterity 3 playstyle because of this, westar m5 tends to serve me better but that's a matter of opinion.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

They give a lot of utility to the arc for teamplay but nearly pointless outside of the competitive scene, which is non-existent atm.

Arc Sniper is pointless due to point cost & ammo usage on a low-ammo capacity weapon 10 (5 shots) ammo for 6 (3 shots) ammo's worth of damage unless you land a headshot plus incredibly low travel speed makes it retarded to use, just get a hero with a proj for far more efficient sniping.

Yeah that is one of the problems with the class, it offers a sniping option but its not really useful if people can see and know where you are. The sniper attchment would be good in situations where the person you are aiming at is completely unaware of your presence, if you could hide in a high up area like a mandalorian can, your sniper can be more useful without it being buffed.

I wouldn't mind seeing a grappling hook or grapple launcher for the arc, gives him more versatility but at the same time, what does mando get? arc is already incredibly mobile and capable of dodging sith, gunner & explosive damage in the middle of the DOTF 1st main corridor vs 6 people because of his rolls and dodges in the hands of a good player.

But personally I think it'd be better to just give arc one free EMP grenade regardless of loadout, let them focus on dealing with droids as a primary focus (sbd, deka) and get a few points back to make the rest of the loadout more team oriented rather than building a loadout that prevents instadeath (dex 3 + stam 3 + armor 3 are almost mandatory vs a decent team)

There is a thread for mandos about their kit and what could be added to it because it lacks variety builds, someone suggested a weaker jet pack so mandos can be more soldiery and retain some of thier mobility. The jump pack I would assume be that gear you saw in battle front 2, the dark trooper. It can jump over stuff but it cant go very high or stay still in mid air.

My current build is that I switch out the flame on it, and put all my armor into ammo and be a mobile sniper. If they get a cheaper and weaker jetpack I may not have to trade off my armor for ammo or my flame for level 3 carbine. And still be mobile.