1.6 Feedback

Hexodious

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I've only played legends at the moment and I love it. FA with consistent characters across maps is a great idea.

R2D2 feedback specifically since I've been playing it loads:
- Remove the ability to melee (Replace it with a stunbaton shock or an e-11 rank 1).
- Give it flamethrower, weapon swap will allow it to toggle with wrist laser for burst with e-11 rank 1.
- Give it Knockdown immunity, with with a slowed movement effect instead (or an animation for knockdown).
- Make jetpack fx play on every jump, and allow this to negate fall damage if used mid air (or remove fall damage).

Sniper Rifles:
- Low body shot damage is good.... BUT!
- Headshots should one hit kill regardlress, increase headshot modifier!

I'll have more feedback later as I haven't played much yet.

Edit: Merry Xmas
 
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I agree with the proj rifle changes but not the ee-3, I feel the nerf to the weapon was a bit harsh and makes the ee-3 in general a less attractive choice of weapon for the mandalorian. I also feel like knockback is very unreliable and the range in which it kicks in is way too small as is, with e-11 the knockback just isn't enough to save you from a swing even if you run after hitting the saberist swinging at you and even if it was I imagine a followup swing would be enough to hit you if the first didn't. I still prefer knockback over flinch and i'm glad that its been reimplemented but it needs to be reliable and consistent for it to work
 

Gargos

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I feel I am partly at fault for not really following the development of this game in the dev section but I want to also relay my concern on this sniper nerf:

proj dmg nerf sounds quite drastic. I didnt see anything about ruptor being nerfed so correct me if I am wrong but why wasnt this gun also nerfed then? Snipers seem to be in a big unbalance.

Also why such a drastic nerff? I believe the proj nerf can still be ok since headshot should still kill stuff but the ee3 nerf is just crazy. Dropping from 100 dmg to 60? That is a very big change. There were other things to make ee3 less potent. Such as not letting it insta fire once in scope (adding delay like in proj), and removing being able to wrist fire instantly after snipe (which gave ee3 a way too big of a boost in both health and fp dmg). Then and possibly then only maximum of drop of dmg to 90, maybe 95. Possibly not even needed if these other changes were made. Another possible change of course would be increasing hs damage as said before here but would need some testing if this were the only needed buff after the nerfs.

Otherwise this build seems very interesting. Cant wait to have some time to play it.
 
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What gargos said, adding a simple delay to ee-3 would've fixed many issues people had with it. That compromise should have suited everyone, especially sniper-haters. Messing with the damage simply reduced its value now, when primary fire is more reliable.
 

Nex

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From what I read in regards of sniper criticism, the so called 'sniper haters' are very well known trolls and time wasters of the eu side playerbase in most cases and apart of that simple newbies who just installed the mod with a few posts sent on the forums. Devs, if there's one thing you should understand, it's to distinguish serious feedback given by veterans and the one proposed by 14 year olds. Just because we're not as active as they are doesn't mean we aren't here. I think that's the major issue. You're listening to the wrong people. You simply don't change the game as the noobs fail adapt. It's not how it's suposed to work, it's the exact opposite - they should learn how to play it properly. Even the beta team consists of people younger than mod itself. Look at the obvious bugs that slip through after every big patch goes live. It's not the first time this has happened. Sith using pulled weapons? Was that really that hard to spot out? Force templates are yet again bugged as well, already seen couple of siths using speed.

What gargos said, adding a simple delay to ee-3 would've fixed many issues people had with it. That compromise should have suited everyone, especially sniper-haters. Messing with the damage simply reduced its value now, when primary fire is more reliable.

This ^.
 
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Overall a very mixed bag

On one hand visual changes and the new UI look nice, and apparently duelists really like the new features. New modes are pretty good. Everything else though... Pretty bad.

First off, knockback. It's just bad. Though flinch was a little clunky and not very reliable, it did its job most of the time. It gave gunners a chance in close combat fights, which were the most common, since draining saberists at range was almost impossible.

What we now have instead is a mechanic that literally doesn't make any difference unless the saberist gets hit by either a very high damage shot, or a burst, all while not swingblocking. Not only that, but it also only works at point blank range... why? In last patch you could save your allies by flinching saberists from afar when they were about to go for a kill. Now you can't. Great.

Second, the sniper nerf.
Let me say that I was one of the people who wanted it to happen. But dear god... not this way. Among all the interesting options you chose this? A huge DMG nerf? Really?
Why is it so drastic? I was very concerned that you would make snipers obsolete with this nerf, and you did exactly that. Snipers have a right to exist, and sniper gameplay should be fun, just like any other playstyle. But current sniping feels like a waste of time, since you can do much more with dodge ET/Comm/Hero cancer builds.

So to conclude, gameplay-wise this update is pretty terrible. Saberists are stronger than ever, snipers are crying in the corners and all you see are sith/jedi and classes with dodge.

Please fix this ASAP. It really hurts to see mb2 gameplay get destroyed like that.
 
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I cant lie youre all doing my head in, if you're going to say that the game is destroyed and all this shit, join the beta team and help actively improve it.

I've said already that there's not enough EU open players on the team. I don't know anything about the NA side of things to be able to compare, but from what I saw there was a lot of messing around in beta tests and people who were clearly there for the wrong reasons.

Liniyka, Nex, join the team if you want your feedback to heard. It's almost getting to the point where its just disrespectful to the developers. They're putting in however many hours to try and improve the mod for free, us beta testers are doing what we can to help give feedback and help the game to be better and in return you get stupid advice like 'dont listen to 14 year olds' coming from old players who're in no way helping to improve the game.

If the team had more serious open players on it this patch would have (more than likely) never made it to public. Note how the dueling is pretty much widely considered to be an improvement because of the fact that it was at least somewhat adequately tested by EU duelists (even though there's literally about 3 of us active in the team) versus the fact that the Open changes may not have been adequately tested (as I said, I don't know anyone from NA Open so I can't say whether they're experienced players or not) and as a result changes have made people unhappy.
 
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Doing your head in? By posting feedback in a feedback thread? Maybe you shouldn't read the forums then
No, but you're talking about the dev team in such an entitled way. If you're not going to help improve the mod in any other way than by ranting on the forums every time a new build is released your feedback is essentially worthless. If you truly cared about improving the mod and helping to sustain its lifespan, you would actively contribute to the development of new builds and future updates. What's the easiest way to do that? Join the beta team.
 
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Dueling changes are minimal but appreciated, particularly the nerf removing the side-kick stagger. Private duels seem to have been implemented really well, also having the unintentional benefit of easing fps issues for players on poorer systems. Some servers seem to crash upon a new round, but I suspect this has little to do with the patch itself and is more likely a server-side issue. First impressions seem positive but would need to play regularly to give more in-depth feedback.

As for the open changes I don't play enough to comment.
 

Nex

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Nex why don't you join the beta team then

I wanted to few years ago but then I have read Achilles' posts and changed my mind, it's a lost cause. But maybe I re-apply soon, we will see.

you get stupid advice like 'dont listen to 14 year olds' coming from old players who're in no way helping to improve the game.

That's a stupid advice? Oh well, go on then and keep 'improving' the mod with your fellow 14 year olds and their deep open mode gameplay input and analysys. The future looks bright indeed.

If the team had more serious open players on it this patch would have (more than likely) never made it to public. Note how the dueling is pretty much widely considered to be an improvement because of the fact that it was at least somewhat adequately tested by EU duelists (even though there's literally about 3 of us active in the team) versus the fact that the Open changes may not have been adequately tested (as I said, I don't know anyone from NA Open so I can't say whether they're experienced players or not) and as a result changes have made people unhappy.

You know there's a simple solution on how to make them happy again, tweak the base damage numbers of snipe rifles back to what it was. I think it should take approximately about 2 mins.

One more thing, feedback threads exist for a reason - one does not have to join the beta team to point out wrong or good decisions. You and devs read them here anyway from what I see and this isn't the first feedback discussion on forums, is it? Good players have been telling you throughout years what they like or not, yet devs didn't listen. Not a single feedback criticism was accepted as valid to them. They haven't reverted any change they made in past, not a single one. It's gotten worse actually, after increasing projectile rifle velocity once, they did it again later on. So tell me, what's the point to join beta team? You claim one open player had he joined beta 'could have stopped' it but dozens of pro vets speaking out in feedback threads tied to major releases are helpless. Projectile rifle velocity increase wasn't a welcome change nor is sniper rifle damage reduction in 1.6 but no matter what constructive arguments we use, the devs remain assertive. And the saddest part is that they barely even play the mod. When I asked Goodol'Ben once for how long will the development process last, he told me they're gonna alter things because I quote "its fun" and the changes are going to happen for the sake of change itself. If that's real developer team approach then yeah, no surprise we are here now.
 

MaceMadunusus

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They haven't reverted any change they made in past, not a single one. It's gotten worse actually, after increasing projectile rifle velocity once, they did it again later on. So tell me, what's the point to join beta team? You claim one open player had he joined beta 'could have stopped' it but dozens of pro vets speaking out in feedback threads tied to major releases are helpless. Projectile rifle velocity increase wasn't a welcome change nor is sniper rifle damage reduction in 1.6 but no matter what constructive arguments we use, the devs remain assertive.

Dude, I called you out on this bullshit the last time you did it. We ran both a poll and an open beta on the projectile velocity increase. The community support for it was there. YOU never bothered to post a single bit of feedback in the FOUR separate open beta feedback threads. You're projecting your own feelings on the entire community. As from our perspective, we have seen more community support for rather than against it on this issue. You're just spewing bullshit. A good chunk of people have been complaining about snipers for ages, and its a large part of the reason some very awesome maps in the game aren't played, because snipers are just utterly dominant on them. No, they're not trolls like you labeled them earlier for having that opinion.

You don't get to project your opinion on others and call it fact. We will likely tweak some things further regarding sniper damages as well as other things. However, it likely will not be fully reverted and land somewhere in between.

Your other post about bugs fails to grasp how utterly complicated this release was for a team of our size.
 

Tempest

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I feel I am partly at fault for not really following the development of this game in the dev section but I want to also relay my concern on this sniper nerf:

proj dmg nerf sounds quite drastic. I didnt see anything about ruptor being nerfed so correct me if I am wrong but why wasnt this gun also nerfed then? Snipers seem to be in a big unbalance.
There were other potential things aimed at snipers that would have nerfed disruptor but they weren't included (descoping along with reducing the time you can sit with it charged up by a large margin being the main ones).

There were other things to make ee3 less potent. Such as not letting it insta fire once in scope (adding delay like in proj), and removing being able to wrist fire instantly after snipe (which gave ee3 a way too big of a boost in both health and fp dmg).
The delay to fire after scoping was one of the original ideas I had for EE3 sniping as well but most of the changes for this patch got reduced to number tweaks.

Dueling changes are minimal but appreciated, particularly the nerf removing the side-kick stagger. Private duels seem to have been implemented really well, also having the unintentional benefit of easing fps issues for players on poorer systems.

FPS increasing was actually part of the original intent behind the changes that eventually led to full on private dueling! Just trying to iron out all the dumb logic that's super inconsistent clientside has been a challenge to say the least...
 

Sno-dog

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Thank you all for the feedback so far! Also please check my post at the bottom of the first page for info regarding sniper damage reductions, it seems to have slipped by a bit.

Just wanted to reinforce the fact that these changes are not made lightly. I understand how it can seem as though they are rash and emotional changes but I can assure you they first arrive based on player feedback and end up staying based on numerous internal and open beta testing & feedback sessions.

Thanks again guys! We are listening to the feedback and I'm looking forward to seeing more thoughts and opinions.
 
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The new modes are both fantastic, and by far the best parts of the update. With legends mode being as easily moddable as it is and available across many maps it's a wonderful place to go about testing abilities we would LOVE to see in open. I haven't played it enough to experience any balance issues, as it crashes with high pop, please fix this so we can use this mode.

The gameplay changes are interesting. I can see the dev's attempt to address community issues in Jedi v Gunner gameplay and Sniper gameplay but it seems there wasnt a clear vision on it.

Only SOME snipers got targetted, disruptor arguably the best sniper is still untouched, whereas projectile rifle has been smacked incredibly hard, this doesn't make sense to me, it should have been both sniper rifles or neither, this half-measure of addressing an issue makes me think there's a disconnect somewhere. There are ways to address snipers, this could be anything from new tools to deal with them to moving the sniping weapons to different classes. Or just not touching it at all. EE-3 change seems to be an attempt to bring it more in line with the other multi-function weapon Westar M5, both guns are still excellent, and I don't mind these different takes on sniper rifles/scoped weapons.

The Jedi vs Gunner gameplay changes are another mixed bag, we have knockback from old days but we have swingblock from the new system, another frankenstein system/change. In older builds of MB2 when a Jedi clicked attack he was committed, he also couldnt be interrupted only pushed away/avoided/killed. Now he can swing with the same impunity, but he also doesn't have to commit to it because swingblock. Swingblock worked fine with flinch as both systems complimented one another in saving jedi from eating dmg while the flinch side saved gunners from eating instant kills, balanced in it's own way.

Now, again, Jedi have their cake and eat it too. They get all the free attack stuff swingblock offers, the most flagrant being the jumpkicks which jedi can block during, and their swings cant be interrupted unless they decide to.

I also don't understand this "duel" mentality of knockback only working at 1.5x saber range, when im playing mb2 in open it's teamvteam, i pick up a gun so i can play at range, but now i can't save my buddies with either flinch or knockback unless im also in swing range, which i was trying to avoid by getting a gun and range!!!!

I guess dotf_classicb deserves a few words too, this is a hotbutton issue for the community, we really like this map, some people might not understand that as they dangle it in our faces and even rub our noses in it's loss by adding a gaff version of what we have clamored for. It's not a very funny joke, like asking if leia got paid for her ep 9 performance.

tl;dr
-Revert sniper damage, there's a more elegant solution.
-Flinch/PseudoQ3 are hand-in-hand mechanics, they should be removed together as knockback is not enough to beat PseudoQ3
-Legends mode is AWESOME, but it crashes.
-Progressive Siege is AWESOME and so are the FAs, but how do I set them up on server this wasn't mentioned in patch notes.
 
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MaceMadunusus

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-Progressive Siege is AWESOME and so are the FAs, but how do I set them up on server this wasn't mentioned in patch notes.

Just load mb2_ps_korriban or mb2_ps_desert. Its not its own MBMode as its dependent on the map itself.
 
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