1.6 Feedback

SeV

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(BEFORE YOU READ: I've just had some dueling sessions with Hessu on some older patches, I have a clear head right now. I also win almost every duel I have on 1.6 :) so don't take my opinions the wrong way, please)
tl;dr - I'm not qq'ing. This is honest feedback.

I have heard Tempest's current build is great, but unfortunately I'm not a member of the Beta Team so I'm unable to test it/share my thoughts on that.

So, after a few weeks with 1.6, here are my thoughts (dueling):
It's a step in the right direction, for sure, counters work slightly better than before, but...
Bring back 1.4.9 countering/parrying so we can actually keep the flow of duels going without this constant hitching shitfest.
That patch felt perfect in terms of the flow of duels (except for the MBC and instas).

I won't lie, I'm getting bored of this patch already, mostly due to the fact that barely anything has changed since 1.5 (which is understandable!) but also because fishing for interrupts constantly and backpedalling after my 4th failed counter even on PB is really starting to piss me off.
And this isn't even a "git gud" issue, I'll beat the majority of players on this game in a best of 10 hands down, but it's the way this patch forces me to play that irritates me.

It's frustrating, a bit stale, and overly reaction/timing based to the point that, if you're not off your face on cocaine you're going to spend the majority of your time pissing your saber up your own arse, trying to counter that same old 4x halfswing spam and being interrupted in the process.
Don't get me wrong, that might be what you guys are going for, in which case, I think it's good.
But if you want my personal opinion? Dueling shouldn't be this way.

If I could have my way, what would I change?
Counter window would be extended, so counters/parries could be performed smoothly and seamlessly, with an emphasis on Perfect Block.

If you PB = Counter window would adjusted, so you are guaranteed counter/parry. This rewards PB, but not in a way that would harm players who aren't that great at PB.
inb4 "Hurr durr dueling will be a parry spamfest" slap still works, and can/always be used as a counter to parry spam.
Also, ensuring that counters are guaranteed on PB will make players think a lot more about which zones they want to start their attacks from.
I think right now, a lot of people play like they're braindead against good duelists, I will PB the same swings over and over, and they don't switch it up. This will encourage duelists to switch up their swings more often, resulting in more challenging and interesting duels, and perhaps new and interestnig variants in player fighting styles.

If you fail PB but attempt counter = Similar counter window to the previous patch. Very small window, but still possible with the correct timing.
I think this is an even trade. Interrupt damage would most likely have to be tweaked to ensure that players who aren't great at PB aren't punished too severely for going for a counter and failing, but this would add an interesting dynamic to dueling.
It's going to make people think twice before parry spamming, essentially solving the problem my first suggestion introduces.

Longer duels = Easily implemented by changing damage values and such, I believe. Duels are too fast right now. Too much intensity, not enough substance. Also this is going to allow more mistakes to be made by opponents who are not as gifted in PBC, giving them more of a chance to comeback or stand their ground without having to rely on PB.

If I get more ideas I will add to this post.
Whether anyone will agree or care about my ideas, I don't know and don't really care.
I just think my opinion is worth hearing cos I'm gud.
I have only played a little, but I have no desire to spend more time with 1.6 for many of the same reasons you've layed out. It is a boring patch, poorly designed, that makes it feel like you're just waiting for the opponent to defeat themselves rather than working for the kill yourself like in 1.4.9.
The countering is messed up and timings are off. It's still a playable patch, but from my perspective it is an incredibly boring patch. I'd even take 1.4 or 1.4.3 over this shit, though of course I would prefer 1.4.9 or even 1.5 with properly adjusted BP/AP and modifiers. Current dueling is a pathetic mess that makes noobs bewildered as to why they lose huge chunks of BP, and frustrates good players because it doesn't reward anything other than backpedaling and going for interrupts.

--

Some actual feedback for fixes from me would include more steady damage. There were a few things they actually listened to me about in 1.5 but unfortunately they did not put the right values in the patch (stassin reversed teh correct values for attack modifiers that I gave, fucking it up and then when he fixed them in later 1.5 patches, he added other garbage that made those patches shit).

First of all, the difference between PB, bodyhit and saberhit should be taken into account. I believe that bodyhits should hurt A LOT, saberhits should hurt significantly less, and PBs should give you a boon and good countering abilities.

My reasoning for this is that this will make open duels a lot faster, but in a 1v1 finesse situation a skilled duelist would be able to bypass saberhits most of the time.

Let's lay out some actual values to illustrate, though they are subject to change as I haven't been following dueling on the beta for a long time since it's futile as long as the devs refuse to fix anything. Please PM me on forums if devs will actually work on something useful again, then I will gladly assist.

Here is an illustration of a possible reasonable system, though I think the devs should just publicly trial tempests stuff and if stassin is up for it, his stuff. OPEN DUELIING BETA NOW, I DEMAND IT. Anyway...

*Decently High AP modifier

Reason: Helps quick death in open and to kill people who are far less skilled than yourself faster, by your own hand, with your own BP drain, not waiting for them to fuck up and get interrupted or grinding AP on them retardedly like in some patches. That is not suited for open mode at all. You need steady high BP damage potential for open mode. Individual styles should be adjusted accordingly, possibly with perks to individualize them so they aren't just shadows of yellow.

1. Bodyhits = 1.0x BP damage (should be above current BP damage)

2. Saberhit/Old PB = 0.6x BP damage (should be slightly below current BP damage)

Reason for 1 and 2. I want to be able to aim my attacks skilfully to bypass my opponents saber and combo him down quickly. I am especially keen on dispatching open mode players quickly via BP drain alone. ACM dependant damage or interrupt dependant damage is fucking terrible for open mode engagements, and aimed PB is also flawed in this regard.

Putting some value on saberblock/saberpb/neutralblock will allow skilled players another way to get an advantage. It also just makes sense that hitting the tip of the opponents lightsaber vs eviscerating him with a facehug bodyhit should be different logically speaking.
It's fucking retarded otherwise. Bodyhits should NOT be the same as saberhits.

Now, an additional boon to adding saberblock will come with open mode. If you can block 40% of BP damage by making the opponents attack hit your lightsaber, it alleviates some stress for normal players in normal fights and also helps fix 1vX. Now whether saberblock is 20% or 40% I dunno, but I think it needs to exist, partially for open mode players to allow for higher steady BP drains, and partly for skilled players so they can aim their attacks.

PB = +x-amount of BP (maybe you get 4 for light styles and 8 for medium and strong styles, it will depend on the BP damage numbers) and access to smooth countering.

---

The above is basic. You could also add in a very mild but progressive ACM with a rather swift decay to make things more interesting for skilled duelists and to help differentiate the styles. ACM does not carry over from style to style. The main concept is that it is very quickly lost and gained depending on what happens in an engagement.

Let me give a simplified example of what I mean by progressive ACM.

YELLOW STYLE EXAMPLE.

No combo restrictions on ACM gain.

1 bodyhit = 1 ACM regardless of whether it's first hit, combo hit or halfswing.
1 ACM = +1 BP damage on attack
1 ACM decays every 2 seconds of not attacking


Defensive
1 saberhit = 0 ACM

(Yes, you get no ACM if you hit the saber and not the body! What a crazy concept, right? Getting ACM from hitting the tip of an opponents saber and running away should not be a thing)

1 PB = -1 ACM

(Yes, if you PB, you get to remove 1 ACM from the opponent. Remember it's fast gain and loss and dynamic. It's not meant to be something you save up by spamming to empty your BP, then running away like a chicken to regen bp, then come back with a huge ACM advantage. That is retarded design)

BLUE STYLE EXAMPLE.

No combo restrictions.

4 bodyhits = 1 ACM
1 ACM = +1 BP damage
1 ACM decays every 8 seconds of not attacking

Defensive
1 saberhit = -1 ACM
1 PB = -1 ACM

(Blue = defensive tank style for more drawn out tactical combat)

RED STYLE EXAMPLE.

Can only gain 1 ACM per combo, doesn't matter if halfswinging or comboing, only 1.

1 bodyhit = 1 ACM
1 saberhit = 1 ACM
1 PB = 1 ACM

1 ACM = +2 BP damage

(Form V aggressive style meant to overwhelm opponents defenses)

Can also start adding other things like making red ignore interrupts, but I don't want to get too complicated. This is just a simplified illustrative example of what one might start doing to make a better, deeper dueling system. All numbers are ofc just pulled out my ass and subject for change so don't take them seriously.

I will also just briefly mention that in order to fix cyan and purple they should both be brought closer to yellow in attack speed so they basically feel like a slightly more defensive form of yellow, and a slightly more aggressive form of yellow. That is the only way to make those trash stances any good.

--

As for open mode.

REMOVE DR completely because it's retarded. You should be doing as much damage far away as close. A skilled gunner with good aim should be able to rape a jedi from far away if he is standing still. Range advantage should be based on being able to dodge more bullets.

1 gunners drain if he misses no bullets should be able to FULLY drain a jedi in about 10 seconds.
FP regen should tick very fast so that 1 dodge, 1 second of avoiding fire, will give a huge uptick in FP.

Realistically, this should mean that at range, you can dodge more easily and stay alive, but in close quarters a gunner can really lay into a jedi. This makes sense from a gameplay perspective if we ungimp jedi so they can attack more freely rather than making the gameplay slow and stupid like in previous versions where there was flinch and very low fp drain and low fp regen. Boring, slow shit gameplay. It needs to be fast and volatile to allow for skilled ppl to dodge and survive long, and for noob jedi to die fast. In previous patches, you could stand still and tank bullets for over 35 seconds without running out of FP, and then when you went away to regen your BP it took fucking YEARS to regen. This is really shit and unfun design. Fast FP drain, fast FP regen, more force powers = makes for a much more fun open mode experience.

Refer to how Jango Fett rapes Coleman Trebor's FP and destroys him in seconds in EPII. Coleman is a lowtier saberist and jango is a highly skilled gunner. That is approximately how such an encounter should play out in MBII, but if it's mace windu vs Jango, well, just watch the scene from EPII. Jango was close and didn't jetpack away, a few shots deflected as mace advanced and jango got raped.

I don't agree with the ppl like oldben that think swingblock should be removed. Swingblocking slows you down. If anything, with this huge fp drain, if a jedi gets close and swingblocks, it should be an uninterruptible, deadly swing. Maybe keep the Q3 style behaviour that requires fp to block blasterfire during the swing, but allow the swing to carry through instead of stopping it. This needs to be the case with such huge fp drains to even things out. This means that if jedi play the map more and use surprise etc, it's more potent, but if they just stay visible, gunners can adjust. Also remember that if 1 gunner can drain 1 jedi in 10 seconds, 2 gunners can absolute destroy most jedi in 10 sec even if they dodge a bit. Having jedi be deadly in close combat is only fair and reasonable.

As for damage reduction, hp and all that shit, I think that we should completely remove damage reduction from jedi and instead just give them 150 HP baseline. Also, to prevent dying stupidly to secondary grenades or other bullshit, jedi should have passive HP regen up to 50 hp or thereabouts. I think this HP arrangement is fair because we're going for very high FP damage. No longer are we relying on retardedly low drains, and low regen or flinch and tankiness. We are relying directly on high FP drains to lower teh jedi's defences and kill them. That is why I believe this is fair, along with swingblock acting as q3 that prevents all HP damage but is not interrupted as long as the jedi has over 10 fp. if the jedi has below 10 fp and swingblocks and gets hit, his swing will be interrupted in addition to him not being able to block blasterfire with swingblock. This interrupt/flinch behaviour should also occur on non-swingblocks all the time. Swingblocking bypasses flinch. Remove the stupid knockback shit, it is an inelegant solution and makes little sense. Gunners should just have their guns with high FP drain + their gadgets to deal with jedi, and jedi should have swingblock to use skill to kill gunners closerange.

All of the things I've described above almost completely eliminates the noobie jedi OP feeling that many people have had since 1.4. Since a noob will come running straight at a gunner without dodging much, and will swing wildly without swingblock, these two things will enable skilled gunners to completely decimate noob jedi safely. But skilled jedi will have dodge/movement and map advantages + swingblocking to really stand out. If the FP drain vs fp regen numbers are balanced properly, this is a FAR superior open mode experience than anything we've had in many years.

Speaking of open mode, I believe that contact grenades and corpse grenades should be brought back just because they are so fucking amazing and fun to use, I don't give a fuck about balance. You can think of it a bit like extra tools for gunners vs jedi. Also, I've never cared or conc grenades they are dumb, better to give soldiers some utility nades like the commander instead and add contact nades back.


--

I wrote a bit more than necessary, but hopefully I am illustrating just how illogical and shit the current design of dueling and open mode is, and some possible avenues along which one might approach fixing the gameplay. I don't give a fuck about new game modes or new maps or new gay models from disney starwars. You need to urgently fix the gameplay.
 

Hexodious

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mb2_citadel @Lindsey
  • I like the general layout, the height variations are nice and I really like the dynamic cover with the box tram.
  • You get into action pretty fast, great!
  • In openmode it feels like the teams should be swapped by default, Imperials seem to be attacking their own base?
  • The center area doesn't seem to see a lot of play, its more of a chore just to get the objective, having this door open after 60s would open up flanking for Rebels/Imperials and make a nice dynamic shift in the map after the initial combat starts and give 4 (centre left/right routes) instead of 2.
  • There are far too many objectives/buttons but I like that the final objective can be completed in two separate methods.
    • In particular the two power generator things could be linked together and hacking either control panel can disable both, this would force the defence of these objectives to become more dynamic.
Haven't played a scrim (only open/legends) on it yet so don't know how easily camp-able the final objective rooms are with how close respawns are to the final objective.
 
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I think that the imps are trying to destroy their own base in R1 so it kind of makes sense
 

Hexodious

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But in R1 the rebels are getting the data not the imps? It feels like you are following the movie characters with K2SO hacking the console for the data, while Jyn and Cassian go in and get the stuff.

If the map is being described as the imps blowing up their own base, it certainly doesn't feel like that while playing.
 
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KarusBadders

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have you noticed since 1.5 that swings hit you before they actually hit you? it makes the game feel like shit

also btw, how can we play 1.4 patches? i wanna play 1.4.5 again
Kind of! I know what you mean. I think it's because of the way the flow of duels were impacted, with the changes Stassin brought in.
Not that it's inherently *bad*, it's just that, I personally don't like it.
Whether it's bad or good it's subject to debate, obviously.
That being said, I believe many of the issues dueling currently suffers from can be fixed quite easily with the suggestions I gave. Dueling needs to flow seamlessly, instead of being a stopping/starting contest, which is what it feels like at the moment.
In regards to playing older patches, I'll hit you up on Discord with some instructions/links.
I have only played a little, but I have no desire to spend more time with 1.6 for many of the same reasons you've layed out. It is a boring patch, poorly designed, that makes it feel like you're just waiting for the opponent to defeat themselves rather than working for the kill yourself like in 1.4.9.
The countering is messed up and timings are off. It's still a playable patch, but from my perspective it is an incredibly boring patch. I'd even take 1.4 or 1.4.3 over this shit, though of course I would prefer 1.4.9 or even 1.5 with properly adjusted BP/AP and modifiers. Current dueling is a pathetic mess that makes noobs bewildered as to why they lose huge chunks of BP, and frustrates good players because it doesn't reward anything other than backpedaling and going for interrupts.

--

Some actual feedback for fixes from me would include more steady damage. There were a few things they actually listened to me about in 1.5 but unfortunately they did not put the right values in the patch (stassin reversed teh correct values for attack modifiers that I gave, fucking it up and then when he fixed them in later 1.5 patches, he added other garbage that made those patches shit).

First of all, the difference between PB, bodyhit and saberhit should be taken into account. I believe that bodyhits should hurt A LOT, saberhits should hurt significantly less, and PBs should give you a boon and good countering abilities.

My reasoning for this is that this will make open duels a lot faster, but in a 1v1 finesse situation a skilled duelist would be able to bypass saberhits most of the time.

Let's lay out some actual values to illustrate, though they are subject to change as I haven't been following dueling on the beta for a long time since it's futile as long as the devs refuse to fix anything. Please PM me on forums if devs will actually work on something useful again, then I will gladly assist.

Here is an illustration of a possible reasonable system, though I think the devs should just publicly trial tempests stuff and if stassin is up for it, his stuff. OPEN DUELIING BETA NOW, I DEMAND IT. Anyway...

*Decently High AP modifier

Reason: Helps quick death in open and to kill people who are far less skilled than yourself faster, by your own hand, with your own BP drain, not waiting for them to fuck up and get interrupted or grinding AP on them retardedly like in some patches. That is not suited for open mode at all. You need steady high BP damage potential for open mode. Individual styles should be adjusted accordingly, possibly with perks to individualize them so they aren't just shadows of yellow.

1. Bodyhits = 1.0x BP damage (should be above current BP damage)

2. Saberhit/Old PB = 0.6x BP damage (should be slightly below current BP damage)

Reason for 1 and 2. I want to be able to aim my attacks skilfully to bypass my opponents saber and combo him down quickly. I am especially keen on dispatching open mode players quickly via BP drain alone. ACM dependant damage or interrupt dependant damage is fucking terrible for open mode engagements, and aimed PB is also flawed in this regard.

Putting some value on saberblock/saberpb/neutralblock will allow skilled players another way to get an advantage. It also just makes sense that hitting the tip of the opponents lightsaber vs eviscerating him with a facehug bodyhit should be different logically speaking.
It's fucking retarded otherwise. Bodyhits should NOT be the same as saberhits.

Now, an additional boon to adding saberblock will come with open mode. If you can block 40% of BP damage by making the opponents attack hit your lightsaber, it alleviates some stress for normal players in normal fights and also helps fix 1vX. Now whether saberblock is 20% or 40% I dunno, but I think it needs to exist, partially for open mode players to allow for higher steady BP drains, and partly for skilled players so they can aim their attacks.

PB = +x-amount of BP (maybe you get 4 for light styles and 8 for medium and strong styles, it will depend on the BP damage numbers) and access to smooth countering.

---

The above is basic. You could also add in a very mild but progressive ACM with a rather swift decay to make things more interesting for skilled duelists and to help differentiate the styles. ACM does not carry over from style to style. The main concept is that it is very quickly lost and gained depending on what happens in an engagement.

Let me give a simplified example of what I mean by progressive ACM.

YELLOW STYLE EXAMPLE.

No combo restrictions on ACM gain.

1 bodyhit = 1 ACM regardless of whether it's first hit, combo hit or halfswing.
1 ACM = +1 BP damage on attack
1 ACM decays every 2 seconds of not attacking


Defensive
1 saberhit = 0 ACM

(Yes, you get no ACM if you hit the saber and not the body! What a crazy concept, right? Getting ACM from hitting the tip of an opponents saber and running away should not be a thing)

1 PB = -1 ACM

(Yes, if you PB, you get to remove 1 ACM from the opponent. Remember it's fast gain and loss and dynamic. It's not meant to be something you save up by spamming to empty your BP, then running away like a chicken to regen bp, then come back with a huge ACM advantage. That is retarded design)

BLUE STYLE EXAMPLE.

No combo restrictions.

4 bodyhits = 1 ACM
1 ACM = +1 BP damage
1 ACM decays every 8 seconds of not attacking

Defensive
1 saberhit = -1 ACM
1 PB = -1 ACM

(Blue = defensive tank style for more drawn out tactical combat)

RED STYLE EXAMPLE.

Can only gain 1 ACM per combo, doesn't matter if halfswinging or comboing, only 1.

1 bodyhit = 1 ACM
1 saberhit = 1 ACM
1 PB = 1 ACM

1 ACM = +2 BP damage

(Form V aggressive style meant to overwhelm opponents defenses)

Can also start adding other things like making red ignore interrupts, but I don't want to get too complicated. This is just a simplified illustrative example of what one might start doing to make a better, deeper dueling system. All numbers are ofc just pulled out my ass and subject for change so don't take them seriously.

I will also just briefly mention that in order to fix cyan and purple they should both be brought closer to yellow in attack speed so they basically feel like a slightly more defensive form of yellow, and a slightly more aggressive form of yellow. That is the only way to make those trash stances any good.

--

As for open mode.

REMOVE DR completely because it's retarded. You should be doing as much damage far away as close. A skilled gunner with good aim should be able to rape a jedi from far away if he is standing still. Range advantage should be based on being able to dodge more bullets.

1 gunners drain if he misses no bullets should be able to FULLY drain a jedi in about 10 seconds.
FP regen should tick very fast so that 1 dodge, 1 second of avoiding fire, will give a huge uptick in FP.

Realistically, this should mean that at range, you can dodge more easily and stay alive, but in close quarters a gunner can really lay into a jedi. This makes sense from a gameplay perspective if we ungimp jedi so they can attack more freely rather than making the gameplay slow and stupid like in previous versions where there was flinch and very low fp drain and low fp regen. Boring, slow shit gameplay. It needs to be fast and volatile to allow for skilled ppl to dodge and survive long, and for noob jedi to die fast. In previous patches, you could stand still and tank bullets for over 35 seconds without running out of FP, and then when you went away to regen your BP it took fucking YEARS to regen. This is really shit and unfun design. Fast FP drain, fast FP regen, more force powers = makes for a much more fun open mode experience.

Refer to how Jango Fett rapes Coleman Trebor's FP and destroys him in seconds in EPII. Coleman is a lowtier saberist and jango is a highly skilled gunner. That is approximately how such an encounter should play out in MBII, but if it's mace windu vs Jango, well, just watch the scene from EPII. Jango was close and didn't jetpack away, a few shots deflected as mace advanced and jango got raped.

I don't agree with the ppl like oldben that think swingblock should be removed. Swingblocking slows you down. If anything, with this huge fp drain, if a jedi gets close and swingblocks, it should be an uninterruptible, deadly swing. Maybe keep the Q3 style behaviour that requires fp to block blasterfire during the swing, but allow the swing to carry through instead of stopping it. This needs to be the case with such huge fp drains to even things out. This means that if jedi play the map more and use surprise etc, it's more potent, but if they just stay visible, gunners can adjust. Also remember that if 1 gunner can drain 1 jedi in 10 seconds, 2 gunners can absolute destroy most jedi in 10 sec even if they dodge a bit. Having jedi be deadly in close combat is only fair and reasonable.

As for damage reduction, hp and all that shit, I think that we should completely remove damage reduction from jedi and instead just give them 150 HP baseline. Also, to prevent dying stupidly to secondary grenades or other bullshit, jedi should have passive HP regen up to 50 hp or thereabouts. I think this HP arrangement is fair because we're going for very high FP damage. No longer are we relying on retardedly low drains, and low regen or flinch and tankiness. We are relying directly on high FP drains to lower teh jedi's defences and kill them. That is why I believe this is fair, along with swingblock acting as q3 that prevents all HP damage but is not interrupted as long as the jedi has over 10 fp. if the jedi has below 10 fp and swingblocks and gets hit, his swing will be interrupted in addition to him not being able to block blasterfire with swingblock. This interrupt/flinch behaviour should also occur on non-swingblocks all the time. Swingblocking bypasses flinch. Remove the stupid knockback shit, it is an inelegant solution and makes little sense. Gunners should just have their guns with high FP drain + their gadgets to deal with jedi, and jedi should have swingblock to use skill to kill gunners closerange.

All of the things I've described above almost completely eliminates the noobie jedi OP feeling that many people have had since 1.4. Since a noob will come running straight at a gunner without dodging much, and will swing wildly without swingblock, these two things will enable skilled gunners to completely decimate noob jedi safely. But skilled jedi will have dodge/movement and map advantages + swingblocking to really stand out. If the FP drain vs fp regen numbers are balanced properly, this is a FAR superior open mode experience than anything we've had in many years.

Speaking of open mode, I believe that contact grenades and corpse grenades should be brought back just because they are so fucking amazing and fun to use, I don't give a fuck about balance. You can think of it a bit like extra tools for gunners vs jedi. Also, I've never cared or conc grenades they are dumb, better to give soldiers some utility nades like the commander instead and add contact nades back.


--

I wrote a bit more than necessary, but hopefully I am illustrating just how illogical and shit the current design of dueling and open mode is, and some possible avenues along which one might approach fixing the gameplay. I don't give a fuck about new game modes or new maps or new gay models from disney starwars. You need to urgently fix the gameplay.
What a comprehensive list of suggestions, this is really well written. Thank you!
I agree with pretty much every suggestion you've made here.
The fact you outlined other saber styles too, wow talk about overboard lol.
No but honestly, nice one.
I hope Temp's patch is as good as I've heard, I can't wait to play something a bit fresher than current public.
 
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I didn't bother reading Sev's post because it's too long and convoluted. I skimmed it though. Maybe I'll read it fully another day.
I like this patch just because it forced me to make up new strategies and moves. I only played for a week and already am much better at dueling than I left off. Though I have a few problems with this patch.
Interrupt. Yaw spam makes it impossible to consistently counter any combo because of a high risk of losing half of BP in one try. Remove interrupt damage. It's unnecessary on top of high swing damages.
PB zones. I'd like for them to always touch player model and not be 1 km away from it. I'm ok with the position of zones if you make WA/WD zones touch head in some way. Make PB zones smaller. Bigger than 1.4.9 but smaller than current ones. Also, they should always face you. As in the position always stays the same. They don't turn when the player model turns. I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear about this. I can try to draw them. This might make PBing too easy so remove swing restrictions.
Parrying. 1.4.9 version of it is better.
This is everything I don't like about current dueling. Otherwise, I like this patch.
 

Tempest

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I like this patch just because it forced me to make up new strategies and moves. I only played for a week and already am much better at dueling than I left off. Though I have a few problems with this patch.
Interrupt. Yaw spam makes it impossible to consistently counter any combo because of a high risk of losing half of BP in one try. Remove interrupt damage. It's unnecessary on top of high swing damages.
Swing damage is actually pretty low if you look at the numbers (compared to how it has been in the past).
PB zones. I'd like for them to always touch player model and not be 1 km away from it. I'm ok with the position of zones if you make WA/WD zones touch head in some way.
They start pretty much immediately off of the player model. WA/WD/W are pretty much the only exception to this and I adjusted them for the hotfix.

Make PB zones smaller. Bigger than 1.4.9 but smaller than current ones. Also, they should always face you. As in the position always stays the same. They don't turn when the player model turns. I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear about this. I can try to draw them. This might make PBing too easy so remove swing restrictions.
They don't change at all based on where the attacker is facing. You can see this when someone is turned completely away from you and you have to look at the opposite side of where the swing is coming from to match the zone for the animation.
 
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Swing damage is bigger than 1.4.9 and it's just high enough for me to enjoy duels and not have them last eternity. I haven't played pre 1.4.8 patches except 1.3 for an hour long time ago so I don't know.

So what you're saying is I should toss my mouse at PB zone and not keep it close to body when someone does extreme yawing? That would make sense why I was often not getting PBs during that.
 

Tempest

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The range (again, the current exceptions being WA/W/WD) for PB zones is basically off of the player model to the length of where the saber would go. Probably even farther, given how far out the PB indicator will still activate (overall, it's pretty dumb how far it goes but yeah).
 

Fang

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Alright my biggest complain and I dont wanna kill this function but
Look ive seen homer simpsons run down and thats fine i dont care
but
i have an issue when someone strolls up to me with an imp command as a reb and vice versa
 
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My feedback from playing mostly duel:

Timing: Counters are working great again I have no gripes with them although I did like @KarusBadders suggestions on making the timing even easier if you land a PB to make PBing more important in duelling. Overall really great though, there is a variety of effective playstyles rn in duelling instead of players abusing the same shadowswing spam parry meta from the last patch.

PB: I’ve always been a proponent of old PB but if we’re sticking with the current one leave it as it is. No need for regen on Pb and other unnecessary stuff it’s currently in a good place. Don’t fix what’s not broken effectively.

Duel Lengths: Starting to feel a lot more like v0 where good players could go at it for 5 mins with no clear winner (if they play cautiously Ofc) but new players die relatively quickly. I think because counters have been made easier perhaps you should buff interrupt damage again as counters are quite easy to use and so there should be a more severe punishment for having appalling timing. This will also make beating newer players easier and will allow better players to 2v1 newer ones.
 
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I've never bothered learning how to saber in this game because it was always doing some different shit and no one ever agreed on what's good or fun mechanically, so I was greatly amused that "hold w and ctrl" actually works pretty well for maintaining a good K/D as a jedi/sith
What are they gonna do to stop you? Shoot you? lmao
 
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