1.4 Open Beta Dueling Feedback

[{Δ} Achilles]

I'm guessing you're Altroll.

I bleed sarcasm and passive aggression, so... probably.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Sounds menstrual.

Have this sudden urge to create a style without any swings. All feints. Just need to figure out how to actually kill someone then.

Didn't check but does cg_hudfiles still display the text version of when you acquire acm and the number?

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Have this sudden urge to create a style without any swings. All feints. Just need to figure out how to actually kill someone then.

Red is probably the best choice for that. Unless you want to pblock them to death with Cyan.

 

[agentoo8]

* Offensive play is much harder than defensive, imo. Red and purple will have a hard time against someone that can PB well using yellow/cyan, negating their ACM. It helps to use nudgecombos to a degree, but if the person even PBs one of these hits, they can bring you back to 0 ACM. I feel like a lot more effort is needed to play offensively atm (but this is subject to alteration considering I have maybe played the system for 3 hours max thus far)
* Not sure if PB should cancel combos completely. Perhaps allow each style a staff stagger-like component which will cancel their attack? Dunno.
* Feel like backstabs should (once again) stagger, regardless of crouch. Will help to break people's defenses for the slower styles.

A step in the right direction, don't get me wrong.

 

[Preston]

* Offensive play is much harder than defensive, imo. Red and purple will have a hard time against someone that can PB well using yellow/cyan, negating their ACM. It helps to use nudgecombos to a degree, but if the person even PBs one of these hits, they can bring you back to 0 ACM. I feel like a lot more effort is needed to play offensively atm (but this is subject to alteration considering I have maybe played the system for 3 hours max thus far)
* Not sure if PB should cancel combos completely. Perhaps allow each style a staff stagger-like component which will cancel their attack? Dunno.
* Feel like backstabs should (once again) stagger, regardless of crouch. Will help to break people's defenses for the slower styles.

A step in the right direction, don't get me wrong.

^ all of this, especially the cancel combos part

 

[SeV]

I feel like without PB stopping combo's there's not enough incentive and reward to PBing and duels will devolve into spamfests without much finesse. But it is a fact that duels can take up a long time if you're fighting someone of approximately equal skill. I think it wouldn't hurt if duels were made slightly faster, but not to the extent that 1 mistake will cost you everything. Right now the system is kinda forgiving if you make a mistake, which forces the opponent to keep playing well even when he has the advantage. I think this is a good thing, it keeps ppl on their toes and avoids braindead spamfests.

But yes, duels could be slightly more unforgiving without it hurting much. However, from a purist point of view long duels aren't necessarily bad as long as the attacker is able to capitalize on an advantage. The problem seems to be that people backpedal and PB, and in order to attack them you have to run forward and nudge insta swing, but that leaves you open to easy slaps and pre-started attacks. Ofc the fix is to play up in your opponents face and not relent pressure, but footwork in duels doesn't always pan out that way. Still, advanced footwork can help to a degree here (so is it just a matter of getting used to a different way of chasing low BP opponents and finishing them off?)

When I have long duels with Sek for example, that just means that both Sek and I are good at PBing and using defensive tactics when low on BP or at an ACM disadvantage. I've been thinking of ways to increase momentum in favour of the attacker when opponent is at a clear disadvantage, but so far my ideas haven't been valid enough to fix the issue I don't think.

@agentoo8 we tried having stagger then flinch on PB. I thought that felt kinda nice, but visually it was a horrible mess. Then blocking anims got added when we tried an RC1-like system and the PB flinches were discarded. PBs that flinch are more punishing that combo-stopping PBs, especially due to the fact that a PB doesn't prevent you from IMMEDIATELY nudging a second attack (if you're in range ofc). So part of why duels are taking so long now is because we aren't used to attacking and playing this way. We normally want range to properly PB, but when attacking severely it is clearly beneficial to facehug so you can insta nudge. If done right (try fighting stassin), then it can be very tough to defend against someone attacking this way.

Some ideas on how to decrease the length of duels a bit:

1. First of all, we could make ACMs incremental dmg increase expand exponentially, or if like, it gets beyond a certain point of difference compared to your opponents ACM, it jumps up a bit in power compared to previous ACM steps. Maybe if there's a gap of like 3 ACM then you get an additional dmg boost, or your parries will drain more BP from your opponent than yourself. So in the case of yellow parries, 1 Bp drained from you, but due to 3 ACM advantage your parries drain 3 from the opponent in yellow vs yellow. It's possible to expand upon this idea and maybe make it work. But the problem of ACM leakage being substantial in case of a skilled PBing dodger who can get combo'd hits in on you, still exists. Also, it seems quite complicated.

2. Next I thought about making combo's deal more dmg, but that idea was quickly discarded due to combos being so darn easy to perform now and I like the current dynamic where combo's can be used with good timing to interrupt and drain a big chunk of opponents BP IF WELL TIMED, but if horribly timed, you get punished by slap/PB etc. I like that dynamic and think it should say. No question that combo's should remain weaker than single hits with the rest of the system as it is, otherwise things will be broken (Stassin and I already tested this extensively).


3. The simplest fix would be to increase the overall BP damage that lightsabers do. In initial testing I think we tried 1.3 but decided that it was a bit too much, so we decreased it to a 1.2x increase and that felt good when it was just the two of us testing it. I can't remember if combo's were as they are now when we tested that, but increasing overall BP drain from 1.2x which it was raised to in 1.4 and cranking it up to 1.3x, may possibly fix our issues with duels being too long. 1.3x may seem like a small number compared to 1.2x, but in actual practice it increases BP drain more than is readily apparent. So far, this is the idea that I think is the most likely to succeed in fixing the long duel issue. Perhaps we can combine it with idea 1 if we can figure out the values that should be used on ACM fueled parries, and if stassin can implement it properly.

4. Increase swingblocked hits damage to 1.2x instead of 1.1x. That will buff BP damage without fiddling with the overall drains. I suggested this in the internal beta too, but stassin didn't like it. I also suggested runhit drains should be at 0.8x so maybe my judgements were questionable at the time I suggested these things due to my inexperience with the system. However, I must maintain that this is in my eyes a reasonably valid addition to help make duels faster for skilled players. It makes sense to me that someone holding mouse1 and running left and right, shouldn't drain as much as someone who strikes precise, skillful hits with swingblocked hits.

5. Tie a BP dmg increase to holding walk. Current drains are 1.2x, but if you hold walk the drains become 1.3x. A possible compromise of idea 3, or perhaps it can be said to be a more sophisticated version of just buffing overall drains. Make ppl tap walk while attacking to increase skill required for it. This also fits in well with the facehug meta for being aggressive. So someone playing an aggressive playstyle would have to try to facehug his opponent to get optimal damage and nudge-hits.


Those are my ideas so far for fixing what is perceived to be an issue by alot of people. I can happily duel for 5 min if my opponent's defenses have been brilliant. I can respect him for hitting superb PB+counters and turning the duel on its head. Still, I can see where you guys are coming from when you say duels tend to be rather long. BUT, we don't want to make attacking easy either. Before, any nub with a lightsaber could swing it about and take chunks out of the opponents BP pool. Now it takes more care, more skill. You must be patient and respect your opponent more. This is a vast, huge, plus point in my eyes, and I don't think we should do away with it entirely. So imo it is a matter of tweaking the DMG parameters in such a way as to make good attacks count for more.

What are you guys suggestions to fix this issue? Thoughts? Only sharing issues and not sharing ideas on how to fix them isn't particularly helpful.

Btw: The suggestions in this thread is a glimpse into what I've been doing with stassin on Slack for awhile. I throw ideas at Stassin, coding is done and we test em. Many balance changes were also made due to me simply remarking upon it like this, then stassin implemented and we tested. Overall I would say my hit rate for successful suggestions is rather high. Atleast one of the above 5 suggestions is going to be able to solve our issue with long duels in a feasible way. Which one do you prefer? Let's get some discussion going so we can improve the saber system and not whine about it.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Or...take all the acm you had built up and unleash it one strike. If the opponent pbs - nada. If he fails, huge dmg.

Power Strikes ftw.

 

[Preston]

I feel like without PB stopping combo's there's not enough incentive and reward to PBing and duels will devolve into spamfests without much finesse. But it is a fact that duels can take up a long time if you're fighting someone of approximately equal skill. I think it wouldn't hurt if duels were made slightly faster, but not to the extent that 1 mistake will cost you everything. Right now the system is kinda forgiving if you make a mistake, which forces the opponent to keep playing well even when he has the advantage. I think this is a good thing, it keeps ppl on their toes and avoids braindead spamfests.

But yes, duels could be slightly more unforgiving without it hurting much. However, from a purist point of view long duels aren't necessarily bad as long as the attacker is able to capitalize on an advantage. The problem seems to be that people backpedal and PB, and in order to attack them you have to run forward and nudge insta swing, but that leaves you open to easy slaps and pre-started attacks. Ofc the fix is to play up in your opponents face and not relent pressure, but footwork in duels doesn't always pan out that way. Still, advanced footwork can help to a degree here (so is it just a matter of getting used to a different way of chasing low BP opponents and finishing them off?)

When I have long duels with Sek for example, that just means that both Sek and I are good at PBing and using defensive tactics when low on BP or at an ACM disadvantage. I've been thinking of ways to increase momentum in favour of the attacker when opponent is at a clear disadvantage, but so far my ideas haven't been valid enough to fix the issue I don't think.

@agentoo8 we tried having stagger then flinch on PB. I thought that felt kinda nice, but visually it was a horrible mess. Then blocking anims got added when we tried an RC1-like system and the PB flinches were discarded. PBs that flinch are more punishing that combo-stopping PBs, especially due to the fact that a PB doesn't prevent you from IMMEDIATELY nudging a second attack (if you're in range ofc). So part of why duels are taking so long now is because we aren't used to attacking and playing this way. We normally want range to properly PB, but when attacking severely it is clearly beneficial to facehug so you can insta nudge. If done right (try fighting stassin), then it can be very tough to defend against someone attacking this way.

Some ideas on how to decrease the length of duels a bit:

1. First of all, we could make ACMs incremental dmg increase expand exponentially, or if like, it gets beyond a certain point of difference compared to your opponents ACM, it jumps up a bit in power compared to previous ACM steps. Maybe if there's a gap of like 3 ACM then you get an additional dmg boost, or your parries will drain more BP from your opponent than yourself. So in the case of yellow parries, 1 Bp drained from you, but due to 3 ACM advantage your parries drain 3 from the opponent in yellow vs yellow. It's possible to expand upon this idea and maybe make it work. But the problem of ACM leakage being substantial in case of a skilled PBing dodger who can get combo'd hits in on you, still exists. Also, it seems quite complicated.

2. Next I thought about making combo's deal more dmg, but that idea was quickly discarded due to combos being so darn easy to perform now and I like the current dynamic where combo's can be used with good timing to interrupt and drain a big chunk of opponents BP IF WELL TIMED, but if horribly timed, you get punished by slap/PB etc. I like that dynamic and think it should say. No question that combo's should remain weaker than single hits with the rest of the system as it is, otherwise things will be broken (Stassin and I already tested this extensively).


3. The simplest fix would be to increase the overall BP damage that lightsabers do. In initial testing I think we tried 1.3 but decided that it was a bit too much, so we decreased it to a 1.2x increase and that felt good when it was just the two of us testing it. I can't remember if combo's were as they are now when we tested that, but increasing overall BP drain from 1.2x which it was raised to in 1.4 and cranking it up to 1.3x, may possibly fix our issues with duels being too long. 1.3x may seem like a small number compared to 1.2x, but in actual practice it increases BP drain more than is readily apparent. So far, this is the idea that I think is the most likely to succeed in fixing the long duel issue. Perhaps we can combine it with idea 1 if we can figure out the values that should be used on ACM fueled parries, and if stassin can implement it properly.

4. Increase swingblocked hits damage to 1.2x instead of 1.1x. That will buff BP damage without fiddling with the overall drains. I suggested this in the internal beta too, but stassin didn't like it. I also suggested runhit drains should be at 0.8x so maybe my judgements were questionable at the time I suggested these things due to my inexperience with the system. However, I must maintain that this is in my eyes a reasonably valid addition to help make duels faster for skilled players. It makes sense to me that someone holding mouse1 and running left and right, shouldn't drain as much as someone who strikes precise, skillful hits with swingblocked hits.

5. Tie a BP dmg increase to holding walk. Current drains are 1.2x, but if you hold walk the drains become 1.3x. A possible compromise of idea 3, or perhaps it can be said to be a more sophisticated version of just buffing overall drains. Make ppl tap walk while attacking to increase skill required for it. This also fits in well with the facehug meta for being aggressive. So someone playing an aggressive playstyle would have to try to facehug his opponent to get optimal damage and nudge-hits.


Those are my ideas so far for fixing what is perceived to be an issue by alot of people. I can happily duel for 5 min if my opponent's defenses have been brilliant. I can respect him for hitting superb PB+counters and turning the duel on its head. Still, I can see where you guys are coming from when you say duels tend to be rather long. BUT, we don't want to make attacking easy either. Before, any nub with a lightsaber could swing it about and take chunks out of the opponents BP pool. Now it takes more care, more skill. You must be patient and respect your opponent more. This is a vast, huge, plus point in my eyes, and I don't think we should do away with it entirely. So imo it is a matter of tweaking the DMG parameters in such a way as to make good attacks count for more.

What are you guys suggestions to fix this issue? Thoughts? Only sharing issues and not sharing ideas on how to fix them isn't particularly helpful.

Btw: The suggestions in this thread is a glimpse into what I've been doing with stassin on Slack for awhile. I throw ideas at Stassin, coding is done and we test em. Many balance changes were also made due to me simply remarking upon it like this, then stassin implemented and we tested. Overall I would say my hit rate for successful suggestions is rather high. Atleast one of the above 5 suggestions is going to be able to solve our issue with long duels in a feasible way. Which one do you prefer? Let's get some discussion going so we can improve the saber system and not whine about it.

Any of these are pretty good, but I personally would rather combos not be stopped by pblock, maybe do something similar to staff's perk? I just feel like people are scared to even swing now because the pblocks stop combos. Also am I the only one that thinks nudge+new block animations together make the game look really messy? I'd prefer honestly if blocking animations were removed.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Just reduce the ACM drain, reduce the effects of nudge slightly, and increase the overall damage.

By the way, I fought a bunch of Cyan vs Cyan fights, and it is the spammiest nonsense I've ever witnessed, and it physically made me angry. Infact, unless you can do the pblock counter consistently (which is almost impossible due to the latency, and fast styles make it even harder), it becomes a huge spam fest in general, of slap, combo, slap, with pblocks stopping momentum instantly.

Slapping is dumb, the nudge combo spamming is also kind of dumb, and I think pblocks stopping momentum cold is also kind of dumb. At first I really loved the system, but the more I play it, the more I find it really annoying and boring.

I don't know if it is just me, as well, but gauging whether you're winning or not, seems SUPER hard right now. Like I'll be just going through the fight like "hmm, this is going to take a while", and boom, they instantly die with me having 90 BP. Other times, they're just spamming wildly at me, and I'm countering everything they do, and pblocking them, they're still somehow alive for like 3 minutes... I understand that in a new system it is very difficult to gauge like you would in the previous system, but I honestly don't think it should be this difficult to figure out if you're winning or not. It is almost like ACM doesn't even matter at all, with how fast you gain/lose it imo.

 

[hleV]

Since PBs stop combos, successful combos should have more impact (read: BP damage). Even then, stopping combos is a little extreme, as it depends entirely on the defender's PB skill and not something that can be exploited by attacker's mistake (attacker can only attempt to make PB harder for their opponent). This should be looked into, as it really, definitely, absolutely ruins the flow of saber combat. Perhaps reduce the available remaining combo swing count by 1 on successful PB (e.g. by PBing 1st yellow swing, opponent can only perform 2 more combo swings instead of 3).

Still think saber style perks are a stupid idea, but they seem to be better balance-wise.

 

[SkeeSilentT]

After getting done with 15 more rounds of dueling using Red, I got frustrated with ending almost every duel having either 0 BP or 0 HP. So I've come here to express my concerns, and further elaborate on how the recent changes have affected Red, amongst other stances.

- - - - -
New: Perfect block is now called full perfect block. Being full perfect blocked now prevents the continuation of swing chains.
New: Saberists can now continue the swing chain with a halfswing after performing a swing feint (interrupting a swing by pressing reload).

- I've taken to feigning my first attack in order to compensate for both Red's slow first swings, and the Perfect Block cancellation of combos, but sacrificing one hit in the combo string cuts down on a lot (precisely one third) of Red's (v1.3) DPS, at least when going on offense and not depending on body/saber nudge.

Change: Slightly reduced purple, staff and dual styles' attacking power. Significantly reduced red style's attacking power. Increased cyan's defensive power.
Change: Overall BP drains have been increased by 1.2 times.

- Can I get the exact percentages for each of these affected stances? Going from 'slightly' to 'significantly' sounds pretty serious, even if ALL BP damage is 20% higher than last build (sounds like quite a free buff for Yellow, Blue and Cyan.)

Change: Consecutive body hits within a single chain now only drain 0.5x as much BP. Only the first hit of a swing chain drains the normal 1.0x amount.

- Combos are half as good as they used to be. Red's stagger only works after a full combo, and its initial wind-up swings are heavily telegraphed and easy to both manually, and perfect block.

- Naturally this affects all stances, but considering the aforementioned attacking power reduction, this is nothing to scoff at. This combination of changes are likely the culprit in regard as to why Red feels much more impotent.
- - - - -

That's all. I might actually sit down later and put numbers to paper just to calculate exactly how much damage Red, Purple, Staff and Duals are missing out on, or gaining (in the case of Yellow, Blue and Cyan,) proportional to the previous build. Just need to know the exact numbers/proportions to plug in.

 

[Alcatraz]

Red Feels very Weak.
I Combod An Opponent at least 4 Times, Staggered, he still beat me. if we are talking about a previous saber system, i would have won after the second combo.
Red Feels very Weak at the moment.
Yellow Feels very Overpowered, ive yet to kill someone using yellow unless i use force choke.
Cyan feels Weak, Cyan needs its Perry perk Back. overall damage buff aswell
Blue Feels Fine imo

Overall all sabers need a damage buff, duals last way too long.
Buff Lightning plz lel

 

[agentoo8]

POWER ATTACKS (Feint-attacks)
Should deal quite a bit more BP damage than normal attacks to warrant using them for anything more than trying to avoid PB, given that you're essentially reducing your swingchain count by 1. Similar to OJP's power attacks.

RED
I can understand why you want to promote combat that isn't so reliant on spam, however: red is all about dispatching your enemy ASAP. With the red BP damage reduction (??) and the removal of the BP drain perk (which was needed), it means that you HAVE to go balls to the walls offensive. Red combos as they stand now don't deal the 'ohshi-' amounts of BP damage that they did before, which i think they should: given how relatively easy it is to neuter an offensive attack/series of attacks, you are forced to rely on nudgecombos almost entirely. Against someone with good PB/a perk such as BP drain/ACM reset, this becomes very hard - all the while your opponent can gain ACM and deal similar damage to you.

I think combos are an integral part of red moreso than any other style; if not because it ties in with the idea that red should kill ASAP then because you are very reliant on getting that 3rd hit stagger. I tested red and purple against Sheo last night, and the damage difference between the two wasn't that noticeable (purple seems a lot better as a style, overall, as you CAN adjust and alter your gameplay somewhat because of the perk/unpredictable and fast swings). I don't think 0.5dmg multiplier is a good idea for red combos/combos in general.

The reliance on nudge means you have to stay in your opponent's face and hope they don't PB your hit, so you are spinning your mouse like a crazy man in the hopes of yawing your combos and making them unpredictable.

Regarding Mr SeV's propositions
I think the ACM dmg boost looks good on paper, but won't really pan out. You'll be lucky to get several ACM with red against someone who knows what they're doing (with purple it is a LOT easier due to the perk). Maybe an overall increase to BP damage, but this wouldn't really solve the problem as other styles that seem to be in a very good place atm would benefit unnecessarily.

PS. blablabla yes I know I'm always red-centric, I just don't want to see the style in the same boat that it was 4 years ago. Purple is very fun at the moment, I must say. I just feel offensive play requires a lot more focus and skill (which it should - don't get me wrong) whereas defensive play is relatively easy, hence why some duels are lasting very long for people.

 

[agentoo8]

Also - why were the PB arcs changed at all? They worked fine in the previous patch.

 

[Tempest]

People relying too much on ACM like it's the only way to win duels is kind of silly. It hasn't been the deciding factor in duels for a long time (from what I've seen). When I say deciding, I mean once you get it = game over if you don't play really well to recover. Red/purple getting stronger off it doesn't count. Btw, there's also a reason why blue/cyan lose more ACM to yellow.

- Staff single saber is bugged with melee katas. Doesn't turn off if you get grabbed (new counter to scumbag melee tactics!). Also staff does some weird bounce if it doesn't reach the max height for the backflip kata. How'd this happen?
- Directionless swinging is nice but it's too easy to spam stuff all over the place (looking at you duals). W swings are the main problem I believe.
- Pblock stopping combos means you have to nudge to get something done. Red/purple users are gonna have a tougher time but that's kind of the point isn't it? Big/higher damage swings from distance = easier to block/defend. If you make 1 or 2 mistakes vs them, you die. Pretty straightforward trade-off.
- Staff nudge+counter is too strong. Same with blue albeit in a slightly different regard. I think it's good that nudge can be used to deal with pblock but it's a really finicky way of doing it.
- I may be confusing staff strength with nudge with the fact that the way it swings and whatnot doesn't get caught up like single blades do (yellow spec for me anyway). Blue is similar but gets a lot more offensive power that it seems like it shouldn't have. WIP on this feedback
- Why did mblock lose BP drains? This still makes no sense to me.
- I think we could make pblock require mblock (swingblock stops disarm but gets stopped, non-swingblock gets disarmed obviously) if the mechanic stays as it is currently. That way it's something that takes more thought rather than being something that is extremely annoying to everyone by default.
- Staff mblock stuff: Ok so I did a lot more testing and it seems like the mblock timing might be earlier than it was prior? The stagger works but it definitely seems like it's earlier. So, pretty much all of the failed mblocks (cause of timing) = no combo cancel. Seems good and bad at the same time lol.
- Higher pblock arcs seem a bit difficult to nail down consistently (seem too high for actual dueling :/).
- Maybe make it so you lose more BP per hit if you haven't swung in X amount of time or something? Obviously a dumb thing but it's a start of something that could help with the super turtling. Ratio of effort:reward for offense vs defense is pretty skewed but it's *really* close to being even, in my opinion.
- Maybe change yellow's perk and just have pblock drain ACM or something? Blocking well to remove offensive multipliers seems logical.
- Have a condition that prevents pblock for some amount of time? That way you can do something and not just get stonewalled by one small thing.

Mainly just need to not break styles because of a mechanic's byproduct(s).

 

[agentoo8]

I'd agree with you, if red/purple were actually dealing the huuuuge amounts of damage they should as per what you said. Red combos are not really deadly, imo.

 

[agentoo8]

Yeah should have just kept previous system, no need to change it so much. complete overhaul. back to fucking nudgeyellow crap.

 

[agentoo8]

Red combos need to be beefed up back stabs also. Yellow op as hell

 

[Alice]

I couldn't agree more with agentoo8, this update literally promotes; facehugging instead of footwork, spamming 1-2 hit combos with nudge and killing mblock aspect of game where staff gets affected most.

I have always loved to use staff and mained this style, with it improved mblock to have over %90 rate against other styles (Cyan not included) but now with no direction restriction it is mostly luck based to mblock midcombo like it wasn't enough we now have nudges that made it almost impossible to pb(not even mentioning mblocking nudge attacks)

With the pb stopping any combo, staff's perk lost it's meaning therebefore we can't benefit from staff perk anymore while pb does almost same job.
Staff's best option is now to spam 1-2 hit combo with nudges which is very dull if you ask me. Some people also find it way too powerful because the attacks are way too fast for them so what i have to offer is:

• To stop combos with pb dueler must mblock as well as pb instead of just lucky pb stopping all aggro.
• I believe nudge was removed for a reason and this feature killed footwork when people started to abuse nudge by facehugging, this creates very clunky dueling which feels dull.
• Styles should be resricted on swing directions because combo was something to learn in 1.3, now with one nudge people just spam combo in any way. This also hits mblockers hard because there are way too many combination of attack direction it is mostly luck based (Again makes staff perk useless)

Red is also one of styes that suffered from changes most, because first hits are very slow to execute and easiest to pb red users are forced to abuse nudges which makes red op instead of weak in that aspect, nudge option kills the versatilty on styles and best example to that is the red why? here is an example.

Spoiler: A little story

Red user 1 decides to use footwork and not facehug opponent, swings in a direction expecting to chain it after it. Red user 1 gets pbed because any style dueler has eyes to see swing hours before it hits. Red user 1 is dissapointed because she tried to have diffrent technique other than face hugging but sadly she realises it is a must to nudge if she don't want to swing in air.

Yellow and Cyan are the styles that benefit from update most, if we were to compare their perks to let's say staff, because random pbs are common even in altered angles also easy to pb first hits(Unless it is nudge and because of this people are forced to abuse nudge) Yellow and Cyan doesn't only stop opponent from comboing, but also drain their acm/bp which happens pretty much every second while staff benefits from stagger very rarely which is mostly luck based in the beta.

• Yellow could use bp damage reduction while cyan should completely get rid of the bp drain perk or make cyan attacks slower.

As for blue I can't suggest much because I didn't use that style on 1.3 or on beta but from what I see it takes very long to duel blues, 2 duel is enough to end the round if you are dueling an average blue user. But it is what I have seen, blue user should express their feelings on new update as well but im sure they will agree to it being very dull and limited style when it comes to techniques.

Purple seems fine as far as I tried but nudge+pb stopping combos make sure purple always overpowers many opponents in many situation.

In brief, new core mechanics limits the freedom of duelers and alters the versatilty when it comes to aggro/defensive techniques.

Thanks for reading.

Spoiler

Sorry for my english.

 

[exodus]

At first I was a little sour towards some of the new changes but after playing for a while I can see some clear improvements after the last build, my main issue at the moment is more than half the people I duel just seem to slap and use that melee grapple attack and then just kill you when you are defenseless, I feel like this needs to be counter-able. Perhaps a mechanic in which this can be reversed, but I don't know enough about coding to know if this is possible.

So as it stands, I'm happy with most of the changes and I like how I'm having to actually learn some new things which gives me some more motivation to actually play the game again. On a side note, please have some more admins on the servers at all times as there have been some issues with tag-team lamers which can be a little infuriating.

Thank you devs for continuing work on this beautiful mod and not letting it stagnate.