1.4 Open Beta Dueling Feedback

[Spaghetti]

All dueling gameplay feedback for the current open beta should be posted in this thread. Any discussions related to general gameplay should go here.

Remember to follow the code of conduct and posting guidelines. Off topic posts will be deleted without warning. Please keep back and forth debating to a minimum as it makes parsing feedback much more difficult.

 

[agentoo8]

* Red jump change not needed. Using an extra key (reload) when already using 2/3 (3 if you use USE to make the jump lower/quicker) is not ergonomic at all. Please revert this change as it was not needed, and hampers aerial red.
* I like the feints. Allows for creativity in people's styles.
* Any direction combos - love it.
* Blue 2 hits - seems good to me. Blue is an incision style; quick, concise hits.
* Red BP drain removed - very good.
* Nudge - we'll have to wait and see, but seems to be necessary in breaking people's defenses.

Like it thus far!

 

[XWulfCallX]

This is to @SeV and the dueling team, Thanks....thank you so much for screwing with heavy style users, Not only are we not allowed to win (( AS I've been told this in my dueling)) Our Prefered styles are considered Broken, (Ha...haha...ha) But one man gets to change the way one of the more unique styles we could use was put

Lets see if I can find his posts here. "I personally hate Cyan's Parry perk, as New member it would be remise of me to Not change it."

"Red should be a pure offensive style, its Counter PBlock perk should be removed." and low and behold it was.

So the way I've been playing, and practicing completely decimated, Can't use Red's interesting counter play style, of pblocking, now we have to go into an all out offenseive. I would be surprised if I pick up sabers again,

If you really wanted to give Yellow an interesting style how about it being the parry style, and Cyan being the Minus ACM (Would give it a nice counter to purple)

The saber systems reek of THIS ALL SUCKS NERF EVERYTHING attitude while I agree somethings need to have been balanced, (Red's 3 hit combo fuck yous were a bit much, you could have really done something with a Style based around using its perk to drain and combo from, kinda like a highly agressive counter style) But instead you just tossed it all out with the bath water,


INB4 NEWBIE RAGING DOESN'T KNOW SHIT

fuck off, no seriously this is the attitude that cause most of my friends to leave, Along with Kaos's constant shit storm to anyone that isn't absolutely perfect.

 

[Preston]

Everything seems great basically is all I gotta say for now, will say more in the next couple of days

 

[agentoo8]

This is to @SeV and the dueling team, Thanks....thank you so much for screwing with heavy style users, Not only are we not allowed to win (( AS I've been told this in my dueling)) Our Prefered styles are considered Broken, (Ha...haha...ha) But one man gets to change the way one of the more unique styles we could use was put

Lets see if I can find his posts here. "I personally hate Cyan's Parry perk, as New member it would be remise of me to Not change it."

"Red should be a pure offensive style, its Counter PBlock perk should be removed." and low and behold it was.

So the way I've been playing, and practicing completely decimated, Can't use Red's interesting counter play style, of pblocking, now we have to go into an all out offenseive. I would be surprised if I pick up sabers again,

If you really wanted to give Yellow an interesting style how about it being the parry style, and Cyan being the Minus ACM (Would give it a nice counter to purple)

The saber systems reek of THIS ALL SUCKS NERF EVERYTHING attitude while I agree somethings need to have been balanced, (Red's 3 hit combo fuck yous were a bit much, you could have really done something with a Style based around using its perk to drain and combo from, kinda like a highly agressive counter style) But instead you just tossed it all out with the bath water,


INB4 NEWBIE RAGING DOESN'T KNOW SHIT

fuck off, no seriously this is the attitude that cause most of my friends to leave, Along with Kaos's constant shit storm to anyone that isn't absolutely perfect.

Red will be harder to use well. Thank God. It will separate the men from the boys* (read '3 hit combo spammers').

Saber system will be more complex and reliant on understanding key mechanics. I.e more ways to play and win.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

*wrong thread*

 

[XWulfCallX]

Red will be harder to use well. Thank God. It will separate the men from the boys* (read '3 hit combo spammers').

Saber system will be more complex and reliant on understanding key mechanics. I.e more ways to play and win.

Again, The perk for red was interesting, and unique, now its on CYAN, It just bothers me.... at a deep core level, and I was speaking mostly from an angry tired and upset player, now that i've calmed down I wonder if SeV or anyone on the duel team has even really gave a serious thought to the whole perk system in the first place. because now. 1.4.0 has no red perk besides the "Stagger" and even that doesn't...nothing...in a duel if anything it helps with gunner support, where's that perk hmmmm?

And before you say "Stagger will lock down the enemy" Jump away, Or in an out, unless stagger stops someone from moving entierly it will be a sub par perk for a sub par style who just got hit with the nerf bat so hard that even its own mother couldn't like it. But again this is speculation

 

[SeV]

Again, The perk for red was interesting, and unique, now its on CYAN, It just bothers me.... at a deep core level, and I was speaking mostly from an angry tired and upset player, now that i've calmed down I wonder if SeV or anyone on the duel team has even really gave a serious thought to the whole perk system in the first place. because now. 1.4.0 has no red perk besides the "Stagger" and even that doesn't...nothing...in a duel if anything it helps with gunner support, where's that perk hmmmm?

Red has a low BP multiplier and high attack damage. It has always been a stance relying on overpowering the opponent with powerful attacks right up until the unfortunate addition of the BP drain on PB perk, which made alot of players adopt a retarded turtling playstyle counter-intuitive to the core principles of the stance.

With the re-introduction of nudge, Stassin and I felt that stagger as a perk for red was already strong. Stassin even made the stagger shorter because in our duels, red staggers were causing quite alot of mischief regarding the PB balance. Now that stagger is short enough to disrupt a PB on the following nudged instaswing, but not mess with PB beyond that, I believe it is more balanced than with the longer stagger (which basically meant it was possible to block out the enemy's ability to PB for extended periods of time, allowing more attacks to hit. The shorter stagger was meant to strike a better balance here.

A few days ago we were testing some changes and I suggested that instead of having stagger occur on the 3rd hit, give red a PB+Counter perk, making all counters deal 1.2x BP damage and stagger the opponent while increasing reds BP multiplier slightly. That way the stagger would require a modicum of skill to execute. However, it was very difficult to code it, get it to work properly, and test it all in a day, so we ended up with the short stagger for now.

Test red in the open beta and see if you find it too weak or not. Imo Red is fairly strong given proper play and high skill. The system generally rewards skillful players and is harder than before, so if at first you don't succeed, you should look at your own capabilities before you question the system's validity.

 

[XWulfCallX]

Red has a low BP multiplier and high attack damage. It has always been a stance relying on overpowering the opponent with powerful attacks right up until the unfortunate addition of the BP drain on PB perk, which made alot of players adopt a retarded turtling playstyle counter-intuitive to the core principles of the stance.

With the re-introduction of nudge, Stassin and I felt that stagger as a perk for red was already strong. Stassin even made the stagger shorter because in our duels, red staggers were causing quite alot of mischief regarding the PB balance. Now that stagger is short enough to disrupt a PB on the following nudged instaswing, but not mess with PB beyond that, I believe it is more balanced than with the longer stagger (which basically meant it was possible to block out the enemy's ability to PB for extended periods of time, allowing more attacks to hit. The shorter stagger was meant to strike a better balance here.

A few days ago we were testing some changes and I suggested that instead of having stagger occur on the 3rd hit, give red a PB+Counter perk, making all counters deal 1.2x BP damage and stagger the opponent while increasing reds BP multiplier slightly. That way the stagger would require a modicum of skill to execute. However, it was very difficult to code it, get it to work properly, and test it all in a day, so we ended up with the short stagger for now.

Test red in the open beta and see if you find it too weak or not. Imo Red is fairly strong given proper play and high skill. The system generally rewards skillful players and is harder than before, so if at first you don't succeed, you should look at your own capabilities before you question the system's validity.

I thank you for your well throught out response instead of just saying LOLNUB as so many in the community has done in the past (Part of the reason I haven't made an account till now) And your right I haven't seen it in action because I AM still downloading the damn thing. I was not aware that this stager dis allows pblocks as I've never noticed it in the current version, If this is true it is interesting,

And on the account of turtling styles, Just because you believe that a Fight shouldn't have a counter focus doesn't mean they do. Look at fencing particularly with the Montante
, I have a video,

if you watch you can see that the Montante not only over powered the opponent but also Was used to open up the opponent's defenses, While still agressive you could consider this a counter based style,

Now the PB+Counter would make it a very interesting style, and give it a more unique flavor that "BASEBALLBAT"

 

[agentoo8]

Purple is all about aggressive counter attacks that increase in power as the battle drags on (i.e. more potent over time), while Red revolves around overpowering one's enemy with brute force in as short a time as possible. If you want an advanced version of red that is reliant on defensive and aggressive play combined ,purple is the perfect choice.

 

[XWulfCallX]

Purple is all about aggressive counter attacks that culminate in power as the battle drags on (i.e. more potent over time), while Red revolves around overpowering one's enemy with brute force in as short a time as possible. If you want an advanced version of red that is reliant on defensive and aggressive play combined ,purple is the perfect choice.

Except purple's animations are really just plain bad for a "Strong" style, a one handed swing makes me feel like my character is going to drop the damn saber,

 

[agentoo8]

Animations are irrelevant to the designated role of each style. Each style's niche/role has been thoroughly fleshed out over several years (Cyan being the exception, as that is subject to debate even now)

* Red is the dispatch quickly style;
* Yellow is a bit of everything style (easiest to get to grips with);
* Blue is good defense, quick hits, outlast your opponent until they make a mistake, tire them out style;
* Purple is Juyo, so you lure your enemy into thinking they have the upper hand/play defensively and then BAM! oneshot (purple's defensive kata further indicates this);

May add that Vader used a one-handed variant of Djem-So (Red) against Luke.

 

[andrew]

whats with the change to a half swings? i dont understand why it was given an odd animation

 

[XWulfCallX]

Animations are irrelevant to the designated role of each style. Each style's niche/role has been thoroughly fleshed out over several years (Cyan being the exception, as that is subject to debate even now)

* Red is the dispatch quickly style;
* Yellow is a bit of everything style (easiest to get to grips with);
* Blue is good defense, quick hits, outlast your opponent until they make a mistake, tire them out style;
* Purple is Juyo, so you lure your enemy into thinking they have the upper hand/play defensively and then BAM! oneshot (purple's defensive kata further indicates this);

May add that Vader used a one-handed variant of Djem-So (Red) against Luke.

As EW tempest said we need to no bring forms into this, But again, A game is more than just mechanics, what do the animations convey? Its ready stance conveys a nice defensed position yes, While Red Conveys a unique open ended assault style, BUT with the swings and mechanics behind it what do we have,

Purple swings one handed quite slowly, like the player is afraid to put any effort behind it, and red has a Baseball bat swing that makes you feel like your going to swing too hard. Now I have no problem with an assault based style, my problem came from a combonation of things, And @SeV already adressed this I would LOVE to see that counter stuff

 

[Preston]

Like andrew said, whats with the funky halfswing animations, my only complaint so far

 

[SeV]

I'm not sure what you mean with funky halfswing animations? Spins were mostly removed, esp for halfswings in the air, so certain diagonals that would spin before now have a clean animation to them.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

1) Animations for Nudge are glitchy and cause major issues.

2) Yellow is obscenely overpowered, and keeping any sort of AC is impossible against it.

3) Purple does not appear to counter swing properly on Pblock. However, if it did, I feel as though it would need to be nerfed.

4) One should not be able to halfswing from the same direction multiple times.

5) Red is slightly overpowered with the stagger, also it drains AC *insanely* quickly on counters.

6) Duels take WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too long. I like that duels are longer, but these are way too long. A duel between blue vs blue or cyan vs cyan will take centuries.

7) I think you gents should rework Cyan again, because you actually made it stronger, yet some how way more boring to use. Thanks by the way, I had fun killing people with it. If you do decide to rework Cyan again, please make it more of a fencing style... instead of a stand there pblock them until they die style.

8) Mblocking on staff is still an issue, either embrace the stagger on mblock to all styles, or remove it from staff as the one unique one.



Aside from that, I really like the system. It has made me a lot stronger, actually, with the ability to interrupt combos. A rough diamond.

 

[agentoo8]

Duels taking too long often occurs upon the launch of a new saber system - especially one that is significantly different to its predecessor. Once people get to grips with it (days/weeks), this isn't normally the case.

 

[Preston]

I'm not sure what you mean with funky halfswing animations? Spins were mostly removed, esp for halfswings in the air, so certain diagonals that would spin before now have a clean animation to them.

Like if you do the thing where you are running left and time your a swings to do halfswings, the animation is definetly different from 1.3, its sorta weird looking

 

[andrew]

the a-swing halfswing animation is really ugly and appears to be slower, meanwhile the d swing halfswings have been cleaned up appropriately