My honest opinion, and my humble suggestion.

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Hey. My in-game nick has been "Oink Oink?" for quite some time, but I've had many names throughout the MBII era. I've been a member since B16 (or '17, I fail to remember exactly), giving me quite a few years under my belt. And maybe a slight authority to speak for fallen veterans of the MOD.

I'm going to keep this brief, because I do enough writing as a student already. What I write is just my honest opinion, followed by my humble suggestion, and either take it or leave it. I feel like the DEVs of this MOD has given up receiving criticism from the older players because of the good ol' "the older was better" mentality that is so often present. And I am no exception, unfortunately. But it's not because of nostalgia. It's simply got to do with repeat fun, entertainment values and gameplay.

MY HONEST OPINION
You're dragging the MOD through mud, and have been doing so for quite a few patches now. I would say since 2016 is when it turned into a shitshow of bad ideas - some completely altered and/or removed the patch after, and some a glooming shadow of a feature they once were, either bad to better (but not good, I would say about most), but mostly bad to worse, or worse to functioning.

Now I'm done giving the DEVs a hard time, because you guys are the wood and the leafs and the cobble stones making the fire possible - whilst we are the fire, keeping the game alive and populated. But not so much any more. I remember when people used to say "MBII is dying", but it never died. We all just kinda laughed when newbies said it, or some raging bulldog who just simply couldn't aim. But as time is full of irony we can confirm that the fire is indeed extinguishing, and the population that always slightly grew or was kept mostly intact (old players replaced by newer ones) is diminishing.

The fault of this, I sincerely believe, is not due to criticism of the newer Star Wars films or that school has become tougher - these things were still present when the MOD first launched (the prequels, anyone?). And school has been a bitch since the 70's with increasing demands ever since. It's not because we have fun games like EA's Battlefront (sarcasm is strong) or because less and less care about Star Wars. It's all got to do with the chaotic development process that has been present for two-three years now, and the complete middle-finger to the old (be it old, populated maps (DOTF and Lunar) - relatively working, simple and rarely complained-about saber mechanicms, but also importantly neglecting the suggestions and complaints from veterans that helped grow the MOD into what it has become (or at least was) - players that should definitely be heard during times of great change.

MY "HUMBLE" SUGGESTION
Go back to RC1/RC2/RC3. Take the most working, efficient build and code of either one (if not all) of these three patches, and mash in the upgraded animations from newer builds, along with whatever functions that might have come later that is rather heavily community-approved (fire grenades, conc nades, gunner-tweaks, fp damage and bugfixes).

Wherever I turn my nose - almost whomever veteran I ever talk to - unify in the belief that this is when things turned stable, strong and working for the MOD. I know of very few that did not like this period of time for MBII - and not because of nostalgia, but because the game had such a strong gameplay (read: SABER MECHANISM that was as simple as it was evolving for the player, features that were simplified but strong, and class perks and stability that went hand in hand with one another, each complementing eachother greatly. Not to mention, that beside a strong gameplay and a fine balance, this is also the period in which the MOD stod, population-wise, the greatest.

There were about 4-5 populated servers a day, from 15 pm to 1 am, and a great lust among the community to not only engage in the development of the MOD (because at this time we actually had a say in things, and not just bugs-to-be-fixed and perhaps a common complaint).

And yes, it does not help to remove the most populated, repeated map of the entire MOD's history (old, completely fine and definitely working), DOTF. I know many were tired of it. I KNOW many complained about it! But the map was always a dragstone for players to come join, and that dragstone is gone. Simply - gone. A bad choice on many accounts, and although the idea was good - and the new visuals beautiful - you sacrificed, once again, gameplay and entertainment values for the sake of update.

Take all these different factors into account, put a little pride to the side (I know there has been great work put into the MOD) and implement the working new with the massively working old, and we'd have a great MOD once again, way more stable - way more fun - and from a golden age standpoint in which things really worked well for the MOD and community both.

This, in my opinion, must be a better solution than keep heading down a hill that we simply can't find our way back from but just further to.

Thank you!
 
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SomeGuy

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Is it that crap build the newbies loved since it came out during one of the recent movie releases? Everyone always loves their first impressions of greatness. Those were the days.

Yeah 1.3 was the one right around TFA and it was so bad. No knockback or flinch against hordes of noob Jedi that just swung through full auto fire and traded that damage for a kill.
 

Gargos

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Is it that crap build the newbies loved since it came out during one of the recent movie releases? Everyone always loves their first impressions of greatness. Those were the days.

Exactly. Partly the reason why b19 always remains as the worst build I’ve ever played because I started in b18.
 

SeV

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Exactly. Partly the reason why b19 always remains as the worst build I’ve ever played because I started in b18.

b19 was horrifyingly bad lol. The trauma still remains. Dueling was so shit and open mode was ruined in that patch. It stole all the fun crazy open mode stuff that was in b17-b18 and made everything boring and stale. There's certainly always that shiny new thing syndrome as well as misremembering how good the past was compared to the present. But I played since b17 and still found b19 to be really shit. Then there was rc2 which was just a joke aswell. Then the stagger shit of V0. Then v1 and v1.1 where dueling was pretty noice again. But in between the bad patches I mentioned, we had RC1 and RC3p3 which I found enjoyable.

Anyway, I remember b18 open mode as some of the most fun gameplay ever partly because of how much I loved contact nades and corpse nades. It was also back when the competitive 5v5 was alive and well. Back before noobs like gargos joined dV8 and lowered the standards of the legendary clan!! (joke).

I think people must take a more measured approach than either
1. All vets are bad and wrong and just have nostalgia and their experience means nothing, and I am a glorious newfag so my opinion somehow matters more even though I have way less experience.
2. All newfags have no idea and the game was better in the past and the longer ago the patch was, the better the patch! No discussion because newfags don't have 5+ years of exp with the mod so they clearly can't contribute anything.

We need some middle ground. And we need the inbred 'crawl up their own ass' style people to stop demonizing the opposition and instead actually talk about what was good and what was bad, and what we need to do moving forward. MB2 development has come a long way and a lot of new and exciting stuff has been developed and is still in development, but people somehow think that you have to be either kissing the devs ass and being an obedient bottom boy, or if you raise complaints and write thoughtful criticism then you're suddenly a nostalgic oldfag egoist whose opinion doesn't matter because rose-tinted glasses or whatever.

I mean, you wonder why the community is so strained? Take a look at the behavior of @noel and people like him. Somehow they think I am some guy full of ego and nostalgia for the past with a vendetta against new people despite the fact that I have never been outright biased against someone based on their length of playing the mod (unlike newfags who dismiss oldfags and vice versa). I have been constantly misrepresented and misconstrued and blamed for various things over the years. Trying to shut down discussions about how to make the game better by attacking each other back and forth is fruitless and pointless and if you all give in to this ridiculous notion about ego, vets, newfags, experience etc and get distracted by moviebattles II style identity politics then you're blinding yourself and helping stall the mods development rather than furthering it.

Someone like Achilles had a lot of strange and outlandish ideas and I often disagreed with him, but he was always throwing ideas around even if he was also being retarded sometimes and calling for a return to 1.3. I also gave him the benefit of the doubt all the time, even when I thought his ideas were trash and he was ignorant about the game, I still gave him a chance. I don't see why I should walk around on eggshells and afford the same common courtesy to people who just dismiss me as an oldfag and keep repeating misconceptions about me because they think I am somehow a super ego duelist. Achilles is very different from someone like noel, who does nothing but demonize veteran players because he has a mistaken perception about us. At least achilles fought to make the game better and I can respect him for that. But I cannot respect whiny little children who fling slurs at people around them instead of talking about how to make the game better and when you come after me with slurs and disrespect, all I do is hold up a mirror so you can see your own ugly reflection.
 
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Why did you have to ruin your three perfect starting paragraphs I completely agree with by doing exactly what you're criticizing afterwards - straw-manning and continuing the flame war ? :(
Nevertheless, completely agree on the 3 first paragraphs.
 

SeV

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Why did you have to ruin your three perfect starting paragraphs I completely agree with by doing exactly what you're criticizing afterwards - straw-manning and continuing the flame war ? :(
Nevertheless, completely agree on the 3 first paragraphs.

Because I don't really care about MB2 any longer and if they want to commit assisted suicide I am here to help.
 
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b19 was horrifyingly bad lol. The trauma still remains. Dueling was so shit and open mode was ruined in that patch. It stole all the fun crazy open mode stuff that was in b17-b18 and made everything boring and stale. There's certainly always that shiny new thing syndrome as well as misremembering how good the past was compared to the present. But I played since b17 and still found b19 to be really shit. Then there was rc2 which was just a joke aswell. Then the stagger shit of V0. Then v1 and v1.1 where dueling was pretty noice again. But in between the bad patches I mentioned, we had RC1 and RC3p3 which I found enjoyable.

Anyway, I remember b18 open mode as some of the most fun gameplay ever partly because of how much I loved contact nades and corpse nades. It was also back when the competitive 5v5 was alive and well. Back before noobs like gargos joined dV8 and lowered the standards of the legendary clan!! (joke).

I think people must take a more measured approach than either
1. All vets are bad and wrong and just have nostalgia and their experience means nothing, and I am a glorious newfag so my opinion somehow matters more even though I have way less experience.
2. All newfags have no idea and the game was better in the past and the longer ago the patch was, the better the patch! No discussion because newfags don't have 5+ years of exp with the mod so they clearly can't contribute anything.

We need some middle ground. And we need the inbred 'crawl up their own ass' style people to stop demonizing the opposition and instead actually talk about what was good and what was bad, and what we need to do moving forward. MB2 development has come a long way and a lot of new and exciting stuff has been developed and is still in development, but people somehow think that you have to be either kissing the devs ass and being an obedient bottom boy, or if you raise complaints and write thoughtful criticism then you're suddenly a nostalgic oldfag egoist whose opinion doesn't matter because rose-tinted glasses or whatever.

I mean, you wonder why the community is so strained? Take a look at the behavior of @noel and people like him. Somehow they think I am some guy full of ego and nostalgia for the past with a vendetta against new people despite the fact that I have never been outright biased against someone based on their length of playing the mod (unlike newfags who dismiss oldfags and vice versa). I have been constantly misrepresented and misconstrued and blamed for various things over the years. Trying to shut down discussions about how to make the game better by attacking each other back and forth is fruitless and pointless and if you all give in to this ridiculous notion about ego, vets, newfags, experience etc and get distracted by moviebattles II style identity politics then you're blinding yourself and helping stall the mods development rather than furthering it.

Someone like Achilles had a lot of strange and outlandish ideas and I often disagreed with him, but he was always throwing ideas around even if he was also being retarded sometimes and calling for a return to 1.3. I also gave him the benefit of the doubt all the time, even when I thought his ideas were trash and he was ignorant about the game, I still gave him a chance. I don't see why I should walk around on eggshells and afford the same common courtesy to people who just dismiss me as an oldfag and keep repeating misconceptions about me because they think I am somehow a super ego duelist. Achilles is very different from someone like noel, who does nothing but demonize veteran players because he has a mistaken perception about us. At least achilles fought to make the game better and I can respect him for that. But I cannot respect whiny little children who fling slurs at people around them instead of talking about how to make the game better and when you come after me with slurs and disrespect, all I do is hold up a mirror so you can see your own ugly reflection.
I dont know where you're pulling that idea from since I repeatedly said that I agreed with most, but not all, of what you were saying, then you randomly start getting all ad hominem on me

I really think you're the one in the wrong here, I haven't 'demonized' anything you've said, I was simply stating that I think the readdition of NB and nudge are a paticularly bad idea which appeal to older members of the community and not the newer, active scene. I really don't know why you've suddenly taken a hatred for me when I was explicitly showing support for your suggestions.

I think there has been some kind of grave miscommunication, and the reality is that you're now demonizing me; someone who is attempting to speak from the new generation EU dueling community.
 
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Silence heathen! Your sweet, honey pot lies come too little, too late.

You're both duelfags. Melee slap was the worst addition ever!

t(-_-)t
 

SeV

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I dont know where you're pulling that idea from since I repeatedly said that I agreed with most, but not all, of what you were saying, then you randomly start getting all ad hominem on me

I really think you're the one in the wrong here, I haven't 'demonized' anything you've said, I was simply stating that I think the readdition of NB and nudge are a paticularly bad idea which appeal to older members of the community and not the newer, active scene. I really don't know why you've suddenly taken a hatred for me when I was explicitly showing support for your suggestions.

I think there has been some kind of grave miscommunication, and the reality is that you're now demonizing me; someone who is attempting to speak from the new generation EU dueling community.

Well one good thing has come of these posts where you project your own perceptions on me and tell me what I think. You're now capitalizing your sentences a bit and at least making an attempt at grammar.

In any case, all it feels like to me is that you keep telling me what I think, like I hate you or whatever, which is not the case. Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. You should probably cease with these inane posts where you start shit with someone and then when I decide to lob the shit sandwich back, you turn around and go 'but why do you hate me!?" I am not like Anakin from episode 3, though you give me the impression that you've taken lessons in emotional stability from Mr. Sand is rough and course on Tatooine after he had his fun with the tuskens.

 
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Well one good thing has come of these posts where you project your own perceptions on me and tell me what I think. You're now capitalizing your sentences a bit and at least making an attempt at grammar.

In any case, all it feels like to me is that you keep telling me what I think, like I hate you or whatever, which is not the case. Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. You should probably cease with these inane posts where you start shit with someone and then when I decide to lob the shit sandwich back, you turn around and go 'but why do you hate me!?" I am not like Anakin from episode 3, though you give me the impression that you've taken lessons in emotional stability from Mr. Sand is rough and course on Tatooine after he had his fun with the tuskens.

I don't really understand how I've thrown anything at you, I mean if you look at the recent thread where you went brazy on me out of nowhere, I think you'll find that I simply expressed an opinion, didn't mention your name or anything and you suddenly took it personally. I really couldn't give a fuck about capitalizing sentences, I fucking hate doing it because you sound like a pretentious cunt any time you type anything but if it makes you happy go for it, busta.

as for your niche star wars reference, that doesn't make any sense to me so i'll just nod in agreement
 

MaceMadunusus

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But I cannot respect whiny little children who fling slurs at people around them instead of talking about how to make the game better and when you come after me with slurs and disrespect, all I do is hold up a mirror so you can see your own ugly reflection.

88aa5a9708fe10faa3529b8420fc07aa.jpg


I am not like Anakin from episode 3, though you give me the impression that you've taken lessons in emotional stability from Mr. Sand is rough and course on Tatooine after he had his fun with the tuskens

As much as noel hasn't been the greatest either in recent posts.....

 

FrenzY

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Sev said:
b19 was horrifyingly bad lol. The trauma still remains. Dueling was so shit and open mode was ruined in that patch. It stole all the fun crazy open mode stuff that was in b17-b18 and made everything boring and stale. There's certainly always that shiny new thing syndrome as well as misremembering how good the past was compared to the present. But I played since b17 and still found b19 to be really shit. Then there was rc2 which was just a joke aswell. Then the stagger shit of V0. Then v1 and v1.1 where dueling was pretty noice again. But in between the bad patches I mentioned, we had RC1 and RC3p3 which I found enjoyable.

Anyway, I remember b18 open mode as some of the most fun gameplay ever partly because of how much I loved contact nades and corpse nades. It was also back when the competitive 5v5 was alive and well. Back before noobs like gargos joined dV8 and lowered the standards of the legendary clan!! (joke).
Agree, especially w regards to B17/18 although B19 had some major graphics improvements which were nice. RC1 / RC3p3 were definitely the good builds. We can agree on that. I don't know if I would agree v1 / 1.1 were where dueling got that much better, the cyan / purple stuff was way off and duals/staff...meh. Can't claim to be a know-it-all as I did not seriously duel much, but I wouldn't say things were balanced. Fun, maybe...balanced? No.
Sev said:
I cannot respect whiny little children who fling slurs at people around them instead of talking about how to make the game better and when you come after me with slurs and disrespect, all I do is hold up a mirror so you can see your own ugly reflection.
You're literally flinging slurs in the same post you complain about folks using slurs. Try expanding your vocabulary.

Anyways, y'all got too much time on your hands to be dolling out insults and playing 'the better man'. Just state your opinion, agree, disagree and move on. If you want to complain and not be constructive (lots of just complaining in this thread), try a diary or a mirror.

Unless something goes horribly wrong with bugs, the next duel updates that get rolled out (Tempest's + some o' Stass' wild ideas) and smoothed-out will give us the best dueling updates we have had in a long time imo. It's exciting times we live in now.
 
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Azuvector

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We couldn't if we wanted to. The source code for that is gone. The oldest version of the code that I am aware of existing is somewhere between 0.1.7 and 1.0. It is my old pre-Sxx apocalypse dev environment. I double checked our current code repository and the oldest version that I would trust to be complete is probably 1.2.

I'm not sure offhand what version it corresponds to, and I doubt it's final stuff, but I do have a backup of MBII source that appears to date back to 2008, if that's helpful? Looking at some of the comments, I think it's at least RC1 or RC2? There's some zip file in the repository that mentions B18, too....

This might just be what's currently available anyhow. Mishmash of WIP stuff.

https://i.imgur.com/KaC8bsi.png

Also have some unversioned .rar file of mbiisource dating from 2006 sometime. Not sure what's in there specifically, since it doesn't look to have a change history tied to it. Might predate the MBII SVN? Definitely predates MBII git.

Give me a poke on Discord or Slack if desired. I login here so infrequently...
 
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I know the feeling.

To better days, when eyes were brighter and younger, time was plentiful and the inevitable decline of body and mind did not weigh down upon your soul. :(

I need a winning lottery ticket or a rich sugar momma. o_O
Or a plan and a target.
 
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