What grinds your gears in mb Il?

[{Δ} Achilles]

Every discussion turns into an ego-fest on these forums, as per usual. "No you're dumb" "Bah, you're stupid" "Oh yeah? Settle this ingame"

This is why logic, rhetoric, and debate should be required classes for children. So they learn not to present logical fallacies for everything.

 

[Preston]

Every discussion turns into an ego-fest on these forums, as per usual. "No you're dumb" "Bah, you're stupid" "Oh yeah? Settle this ingame"

This is why logic, rhetoric, and debate should be required classes for children. So they learn not to present logical fallacies for everything.

Sigh, says the one who wants demo proof that someone can kill a jedi as a soldier. And one who turns every thread into you vs everyone else. More logical fallacies amirite?

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Logical fallacies? Where? Grinds my gears, I just can't see them.

Logical fallacies, lulz. Almost as funny as people that claim 'ad hominen.'

Durrrrrrrrrr.

 

[Gargos]

Achilles, your low quality reaction gifs (of which you are probably proud of and believe yourself to be witty) are then a proof of debate skills?

Anyways this game can be played by two:

Playing proj only is very op. It kills most classes instantly and if the player can aim, it is always a free kill because it is instant kill. So what if the reload is long? If both parties have equal aim, (let say t21 lvl 3) why would t21 win? T21 takes more shots to kill full hp hero, while hero can one shot et easily. Also hero is so, so fast, it can reload and run away into cover and et cant catch up because et is slower (right now we are talking about there being 2 ets, I mean, if proj user with enuff aiming skills shoots, the other et will die). After reloading, the hero snipes the 2nd et because 1 shot, 1 kill, it is that op. Fire rates have nothing to do with this if sniper takes the et out in one shot.

Now if somebody tries to counter any of my arguments there, I will counter them with same level ridiculous stuff as this one until the other party can't handle it any longer and says you don't understand anything about this game (rightfully so).

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Except, he's a mediocre gunner at best lulz.

It's like random noob #25 telling people that are butchering him how they don't know what they're doing or what they are talking about He simply says things that are flat out not true.Shit, he came on after playing mb for the first time, allegedly, for a total of 8 hours and argued garbage for how many pages. Well, I guess we need some drama, Fake as it is.
I'm sure he'll respond in some trollish manner as he is wont to do.

And that's really all there is to it.
Attention seeking troll, barely even pretending to be anything else.

Grinds my gears. I say that to stay on-topic

 

[Lessen]

what if we threw the question of "balance" to the devs and took up the question of "how can i win as hard as possible"

wouldn't the results of us doing only that naturally give all kinds of useful information to the devs about the state of balance?

 

[Gumba]

No I can't

Actually, aiming is way overrated in this game. Usually good prefire and movement prediction is all you need to do good.

If everything fails just pick deka and hold lmb.

 

[Gumba]

Playing proj only is very op. It kills most classes instantly and if the player can aim, it is always a free kill because it is instant kill. So what if the reload is long? If both parties have equal aim, (let say t21 lvl 3) why would t21 win? T21 takes more shots to kill full hp hero, while hero can one shot et easily. Also hero is so, so fast, it can reload and run away into cover and et cant catch up because et is slower (right now we are talking about there being 2 ets, I mean, if proj user with enuff aiming skills shoots, the other et will die). After reloading, the hero snipes the 2nd et because 1 shot, 1 kill, it is that op. Fire rates have nothing to do with this if sniper takes the et out in one shot.

I don't know what achilles said since I got him on my ignore list for a good amount of time now(which you should all do!) but I completely disagree with you on this one.

Proj only(as a hero) is pretty terrible if your team is not heavily winning. It only oneshots solds and ET's on imp side. And t21 rips every hero a new A-hole.
I played the hero vs t21 matchup on both sides more than enough to say that the et is almost always in a advantage in a 1v1 since you can manualy dodge proj so easily. The run speed difference is actually not that important in medium - close quarters.
+you will always win as a et against proj if you are smart enough to bait the shot.

 

[Puppytine]

Now, Wookiee actually can be knocked down without strength. Oh and by the way you seem to think that a class can somehow unlock all of it's abilities? you do realize there is only 80 points per build right? Because a Wookiee can not have strength 3, 400hp, and Bowcaster 3.

Now even developers admit wookiee is op, since it's nerfed in beta.
Too often I've seen wooks killing half of my team, myself including. For me, it's proves walking carpets are way too strong.
We even have a video about that:
So I made a little video about MB2 | Movie Battles II Community

The thing is you need to think about other ways to handle a Wookie other than just charging at it with a Soldier and Commander, or even a Sith for that matter.

Clones are actually one of the best anti Sith classes, if not the best class. So blobs are obviously a problem for a Sith.

So you suggest that I should stop playing sith while there are wookiee or clones on battlefield? Seriously?

But it is certainly possible to kill a Clone as a Sith and any other class for that matter.

Theoretically, it's possible to kill anybody with anything, but how is it related to balance?
Because balance is actually about what happens when equal-skilled players fighting, how many effort they should put, and what output percentage is, not about what just "possible".
It's always possible to win a lottery, but nobody treats lottery as normal income source. People get money from their jobs, not from gambling.

If you didn't know, you can actually push blobs back at the clone

lol I've never seen anybody pushing blobs. Does it requires same skill level as for shooting blobs?

In the end, I just can say about clones similar thing I say about wookiee: by my experience, 2 or more clones = death sentence to sith. No only for me, but for more skilled players, too.
Honestly, I can't call this situation "balanced".

 

[Preston]

I don't know what achilles said since I got him on my ignore list for a good amount of time now(which you should all do!) but I completely disagree with you on this one.

Proj only(as a hero) is pretty terrible if your team is not heavily winning. It only oneshots solds and ET's on imp side. And t21 rips every hero a new A-hole.
I played the hero vs t21 matchup on both sides more than enough to say that the et is almost always in a advantage in a 1v1 since you can manualy dodge proj so easily. The run speed difference is actually not that important in medium - close quarters.
+you will always win as a et against proj if you are smart enough to bait the shot.

it was sorta a joke

 

[Preston]

Now even developers admit wookiee is op, since it's nerfed in beta.
Too often I've seen wooks killing half of my team, myself including. For me, it's proves walking carpets are way too strong.
We even have a video about that:
So I made a little video about MB2 | Movie Battles II Community


So you suggest that I should stop playing sith while there are wookiee or clones on battlefield? Seriously?

Theoretically, it's possible to kill anybody with anything, but how is it related to balance?
Because balance is actually about what happens when equal-skilled players fighting, how many effort they should put, and what output percentage is, not about what just "possible".
It's always possible to win a lottery, but nobody treats lottery as normal income source. People get money from their jobs, not from gambling.

lol I've never seen anybody pushing blobs. Does it requires same skill level as for shooting blobs?

In the end, I just can say about clones similar thing I say about wookiee: by my experience, 2 or more clones = death sentence to sith. No only for me, but for more skilled players, too.
Honestly, I can't call this situation "balanced".

no I dont suggest stop playing sith when there a clone? youre putting words into my mouth lol. Secondly just cause devs change something doesnt mean its for the better or to fix balance. just look at the addition of perks. and no i didnt really suggest pushing back blobs, but I wanted to tell this to Achilles since you know, its him

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

no I dont suggest stop playing sith when there a clone? youre putting words into my mouth lol. Secondly just cause devs change something doesnt mean its for the better or to fix balance. just look at the addition of perks. and no i didnt really suggest pushing back blobs, but I wanted to tell this to Achilles since you know, its him

Oh no, its Achilles, its *him* the one that beats me at sabering all the time. Surely he knows not of the blob pushing.

Mmhm, Perks are the reason balance is broken. I'm suuuure. Adding fun flavors to styles to keep them from being generic clones of each other with slightly varying speeds and animations, is the reason why you smell like you have never showered.


Sure, I'm not the best gunner around, but I'm definitely not the worst, and I have *eyes*. I have the ability to process information, and realize that these players are doing way better after swapping to hero/wookiee, even though they're naturally bad at gunning. I wonder why that is? Could it be, mayhaps, that the class is stronger? Maybe they're just better with that class, that is fine, I'm okay with that... but then I see them take out players that I *know* are better than they are, with relative ease. I see a Clone take out a hallway of gunners with a single ion. I see a Wook killing 3 soldiers in a row with Caster headshots, I see the Wook slamming through a cornered Sith's FP in 4 seconds flat. I see Heroes dodge bounty hunter sniper shots only to land theirs... I see them dashing for ages around a Sith that pushed them around like ragdolls...

Can a grenade kill another gunner like landing a concussive blob? Sure, but the difference? You get a warning from the grenade, and a chance to avoid it. The blob? No warning, no chance to avoid it, depends entirely upon the opponent.

Can you saber a hero? Sure you can, but is it even remotely as easy as sabering a regular soldier who cannot dash? Nope. Can you shoot a hero? Of course, but with heal and dash it is going to be a pain, especially when P3 deals more damage than anything you can throw at him. Can you snipe a hero? Sure, but it takes a headshot, whereas they can kill you with a torso shot.

Can you shoot a Wook? Sure, but assuming they have decent aim, you end up trading hits, unless you prefire around corners, the issue with prefiring around corners? You let them get close to you, and if they get close to you, they hit you, and you die. So you're left with backing up as you shoot at a raging caster Wook, that can one shot you. Balanced? I don't know how anyone could justify that even remotely.

So in the end, hero counters everything, Wook counters everything except Sith/BH, Gloan counters everything. Is that balanced? Is it really?

Let's take the 2 best gunner classes on Imps, Mando, and BH. Mando has a rocket, which is useless for anything other than point blank suicides (which is dumb), and a terrible sniper rifle. So Hero can dodge it, gloan can tank it, and Wook turns into an anti-air battery that stomps mandos.

So let's look at BH then. BH can infact snipe Gloans from a safe distance, out of ion/blob range. Not particularly effective in hallways or the like, with suppression fire and such. Up close, BH stands no chance at all. So let's look at how BH matches up with hero. The advantages BH has over Hero? Darts and Disruptor. However, Disruptor isn't nearly as good as Projectile rifle, you STILL need to lead your shots somewhat, and you CANNOT move while you have a charged shot, which makes projectile rifle infinitely superior in a sniper match, which is why everyone spams it to death. Next, dash allows the hero to avoid P3 shots, but you can stop dash with a poison dart of course, so you, as a bounty hunter, have to change to melee, poison the hero, JUST TO BRING THE HERO DOWN TO YOUR LEVEL, and then have a P3 match, after he's probably hit you twice. What is BH good for? Killing Jedi and sniping. And again, the only advantage BH has against Wook, is proj rifle, if you land a headshot, 1 shot kill, if you don't, you get killed.


You could say SBD is good, but it doesn't stand a chance against Wook/Hero/Gloan. I've sat down hallways dashing around like a retard firing P3 as a hero against a full team of SBDs, and won.

So tell me, how is any of that balanced, or am I wrong on something? Maybe you can tell me how 'Wooks are slow' again, when they can strafe at the same speed as a soldier. Or maybe you can tell me that Gloan is easy to beat, if you dodge something that is entirely in control of the gloan user. Maybe you can tell me how to push a blob back at the Gloan from 10 feet away on reaction. Maybe you can tell me how red stomps on Wooks.

 

[Preston]

Oh no, its Achilles, its *him* the one that beats me at sabering all the time. Surely he knows not of the blob pushing.

Mmhm, Perks are the reason balance is broken. I'm suuuure. Adding fun flavors to styles to keep them from being generic clones of each other with slightly varying speeds and animations, is the reason why you smell like you have never showered.


Sure, I'm not the best gunner around, but I'm definitely not the worst, and I have *eyes*. I have the ability to process information, and realize that these players are doing way better after swapping to hero/wookiee, even though they're naturally bad at gunning. I wonder why that is? Could it be, mayhaps, that the class is stronger? Maybe they're just better with that class, that is fine, I'm okay with that... but then I see them take out players that I *know* are better than they are, with relative ease. I see a Clone take out a hallway of gunners with a single ion. I see a Wook killing 3 soldiers in a row with Caster headshots, I see the Wook slamming through a cornered Sith's FP in 4 seconds flat. I see Heroes dodge bounty hunter sniper shots only to land theirs... I see them dashing for ages around a Sith that pushed them around like ragdolls...

Can a grenade kill another gunner like landing a concussive blob? Sure, but the difference? You get a warning from the grenade, and a chance to avoid it. The blob? No warning, no chance to avoid it, depends entirely upon the opponent.

Can you saber a hero? Sure you can, but is it even remotely as easy as sabering a regular soldier who cannot dash? Nope. Can you shoot a hero? Of course, but with heal and dash it is going to be a pain, especially when P3 deals more damage than anything you can throw at him. Can you snipe a hero? Sure, but it takes a headshot, whereas they can kill you with a torso shot.

Can you shoot a Wook? Sure, but assuming they have decent aim, you end up trading hits, unless you prefire around corners, the issue with prefiring around corners? You let them get close to you, and if they get close to you, they hit you, and you die. So you're left with backing up as you shoot at a raging caster Wook, that can one shot you. Balanced? I don't know how anyone could justify that even remotely.

So in the end, hero counters everything, Wook counters everything except Sith/BH, Gloan counters everything. Is that balanced? Is it really?

Let's take the 2 best gunner classes on Imps, Mando, and BH. Mando has a rocket, which is useless for anything other than point blank suicides (which is dumb), and a terrible sniper rifle. So Hero can dodge it, gloan can tank it, and Wook turns into an anti-air battery that stomps Mandos.

So let's look at BH then. BH can infact snipe Gloans from a safe distance, out of ion/blob range. Not particularly effective in hallways or the like, with suppression fire and such. Up close, BH stands no chance at all. So let's look at how BH matches up with hero. The advantages BH has over Hero? Darts and Disruptor. However, Disruptor isn't nearly as good as Projectile rifle, you STILL need to lead your shots somewhat, and you CANNOT move while you have a charged shot, which makes projectile rifle infinitely superior in a sniper match, which is why everyone spams it to death. Next, dash allows the hero to avoid P3 shots, but you can stop dash with a poison dart of course, so you, as a bounty hunter, have to change to melee, poison the hero, JUST TO BRING THE HERO DOWN TO YOUR LEVEL, and then have a P3 match, after he's probably hit you twice. What is BH good for? Killing Jedi and sniping. And again, the only advantage BH has against Wook, is Proj rifle, if you land a headshot, 1 shot kill, if you don't, you get killed.


You could say SBD is good, but it doesn't stand a chance against Wook/Hero/Gloan. I've sat down hallways dashing around like a retard firing P3 as a hero against a full team of SBDs, and won.

So tell me, how is any of that balanced, or am I wrong on something? Maybe you can tell me how 'Wooks are slow' again, when they can strafe at the same speed as a soldier. Or maybe you can tell me that Gloan is easy to beat, if you dodge something that is entirely in control of the gloan user. Maybe you can tell me how to push a blob back at the Gloan from 10 feet away on reaction. Maybe you can tell me how red stomps on Wooks.

first of all, stop saying "gloan". it's starting to make me cringe because of how overused you make it... and of course perks are unbalanced lol, that's exactly why they are being removed in 1.4 (open perks). And the one that beats me at sabering all the time? Are you confusing me with someone else? Because we have duel'd a total of 3-4 times. And that was months ago... You won when you used purple/cyan. I won when you used Yellow. so idk where you're getting this "all the time" Mr.ego and Mr.make up stuff...

and no chance to avoid a blob? what. Blobs are like any projectile, you can manually dodge any projectile. It's not like blob has some type of auto lock on feature lol.

"Can you saber a hero? Sure you can, but is it even remotely as easy as sabering a regular soldier who cannot dash? Nope." Well I would sure hope so... soldiers get 3 lives. Hero gets 1, so of course it should be easier to saber a soldier.

" Can you shoot a hero? Of course, but with heal and dash it is going to be a pain, especially when P3 deals more damage than anything you can throw at him." Unless of course you are an SBD with insane fire rate and high damage and accurate shots. OR a 2 life commander with T-21, one of the best guns at close and long range in the game...Or a BH with P3, and poison lol.

"Can you snipe a hero? Sure, but it takes a headshot, whereas they can kill you with a torso shot." w-What? You think Hero can tank any snipe that's not a hs? Lmao... And if you are talking about dodge, then they have to use all their dodge points (which dodge is basically useless in this build) and not spend those points on something that is actually worth getting, like dash and P3. Also you do realize that Hero has less armor than BH right? Because I know a few weeks ago you didn't and you were telling people how wrong they were and then you went to hero and you were like "oh" and just dropped it lol.

"Can you shoot a Wook? Sure, but assuming they have decent aim, you end up trading hits..." Unless you can use the extreme advance skill of dodging shots or you know have a T-21 or E11 and just chain a second of headshots and kill it with ease...

" unless you prefire around corners, the issue with prefiring around corners? You let them get close to you, and if they get close to you, they hit you, and you die." wait so.. you think that to prefire you have to be like 10 feet away from the corner? you know snipers prefire right? From like 100 meters away.. And also there is this amazing technique where, you stand next to the corner and weave in and out of the cover with primaries from either T-21 or E11 and just get HS primaries, which are extremely easy to land if you know how to walk somewhat properly.

"So you're left with backing up as you shoot at a raging caster Wook, that can one shot you. Balanced? I don't know how anyone could justify that even remotely." Well even though if they are running they aren't accurate, and you won't get one shotted with a chest shot unless you are maybe a low hp soldier. Actually charging Wooks with bowcaster are the easiest to deal with, besides charging with melee of course. all you do is back up with a T-21 and spray them with your better firerate and kill them. but you shouldn't let a Wookie get close to you in the first place so... also you have 2 lives with T-21 so that's a plus.


"So in the end, hero counters everything" except for a Sith that knows how to pull or push when they dash. Or a decent sniper. Or a decent Commander. Especially with T-21.
" Wook counters everything except Sith/BH," And except a decent commander, and a Decent BH that knows how to snipe a slow moving train.

" Gloan (cringe) counters everything. Is that balanced? Is it really?" Well except a decent BH that knows how to snipe somewhat effective. And a T-21 commander once again. Or a Sith that knows what their doing somewhat.

"Let's take the 2 best gunner classes on Imps, Mando, and BH." Here you go again with this Smash tier list...
"Mando has a rocket, which is useless for anything other than point blank suicides (which is dumb)," what? lol. rockets are useless, that's a new low for you. "...and a terrible sniper rifle." Idk if you are talking about proj, disruptor, or EE3. But all 3 of those snipers are amazing so idk what you're talking about. I guess since you're a pretty bad gunner you don't know how to use it. But snipers are probabaly the single strongest weapons in this game if you are good with them. I may have showed you this once as an alias when I used nothing but Proj and was 14-0 in like 4 rounds 3 weeks ago. "So Hero can dodge it" unless they don't have dodge 3.. which most do not. also dodge is bad and no one really uses it. And if the sniper knows how to get a HS or just uses a poison dart on him so he can't dodge(lol),

"gloan can tank it" Tank what a Disruptor?
" and Wook turns into an anti-air battery that stomps Mandos." Or theres this incredible ability that a Mando has, its called flying. Its a pretty cool feature, you should check it out. Also inb4 flying in the air is a death sentence. Just roll and then use the jetpack, so you fly too far away for the Wook to melee you or even realistically shoot you.

"So let's look at BH then. BH can infact snipe Gloans from a safe distance, out of ion/blob range. Not particularly effective in hallways or the like, with suppression fire and such." Not effective in hallways? do you even snipe bro. Hallways are the easiest and best for snipers lmao. Do you not know how to pop snipe? check out Gargos's new video, it shows him doing a pretty dank pop snipe. (that's your demo proof, and no way a clone would be able to dodge that so don't even try to counter that.)

"You could say SBD is good, but it doesn't stand a chance against Wook/Hero/Gloan. I've sat down hallways dashing around like a retard firing P3 as a hero against a full team of SBDs, and won." Congratulations, you beat SBD's that had no idea what they were doing. And you just majorly contradicted yourself lmao. You say SBD is good, then you say it is bad wat. and yes it does stand a chance vs all of those lol. Only tough one is the Wookie.

"So tell me, how is any of that balanced, or am I wrong on something?" yes you are wrong lmao. "So tell me, how is any of that balanced, or am I wrong on something?" A soldier? You mean the slowest class in the game besides SBD? wow you're right they are fast!

"Or maybe you can tell me that Gloan is easy to beat, if you dodge something that is entirely in control of the gloan user" Well it is easy to beat so... Especially with sniper and T-21.

"Maybe you can tell me how red stomps on Wooks." It does?

 

[Preston]

inb4 you tell me to show you a demo

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

This man, just told me that BH with P3 is equal to Hero with P3.

I... just can't. I think he's disagreeing with me just for the sake of being a chode slurper. Not only that, but he failed to understand any of the context I put forward. He apparently doesn't even know what 'Anti-Air' means.

Like he didn't even read parts of it, because his response barely makes sense in context.

 

[Preston]

This man, just told me that BH with P3 is equal to Hero with P3.

I... just can't. I think he's disagreeing with me just for the sake of being a chode slurper. Not only that, but he failed to understand any of the context I put forward. He apparently doesn't even know what 'Anti-Air' means.

Oh so you are a troll? okay just wanted to make sure. Atleast you finally showed it for real this time. nice that you ignore all of my counter points. Keep trolling, admin abusing, and blaming the game Achilles

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

People that argue with trolls. Grinds my gears

I laughed while reading through some of that nosense. Intersperses enough semi-legit criteria with complete and utter fantasy.

The irony is delicious because one of my biggest complaints for years has been the hero spam. And mostly because of teamwork; because so many people just sucked at it(continue to suck at it), didn't know how to snipe or play a one life class with any strategy. I always thought they'd just do so much better if they went sold or some reinforced class and with a higher rof weapon. Cannon fodder still, just more durable.

Oh well, whatever.

 

[Gargos]

Proj only(as a hero) is pretty terrible if your team is not heavily winning. It only oneshots solds and ET's on imp side. And t21 rips every hero a new A-hole.
I played the hero vs t21 matchup on both sides more than enough to say that the et is almost always in a advantage in a 1v1 since you can manualy dodge proj so easily. The run speed difference is actually not that important in medium - close quarters.
+you will always win as a et against proj if you are smart enough to bait the shot.

I think you're not too good at spotting irony lol, or you didn't even read the whole post since I even said this at the end of it:

Now if somebody tries to counter any of my arguments there, I will counter them with same level ridiculous stuff as this one until the other party can't handle it any longer and says you don't understand anything about this game (rightfully so).

In my post I only showed how achilles argues, any1 can say ridiculous stuff like that and then ignore counter arguments and come up with more ridiculous stuff.

 

[Gumba]

I think you're not too good at spotting irony lol, or you didn't even read the whole post since I even said this at the end of it:

In my post I only showed how achilles argues, any1 can say ridiculous stuff like that and then ignore counter arguments and come up with more ridiculous stuff.

Just go to his profile -> ignore.

 

[HARDCASE]

This man, just told me that BH with P3 is equal to Hero with P3.

I... just can't. I think he's disagreeing with me just for the sake of being a chode slurper. Not only that, but he failed to understand any of the context I put forward. He apparently doesn't even know what 'Anti-Air' means.

Like he didn't even read parts of it, because his response barely makes sense in context.

by the sound of it your just not very good and dont like it so you just throw temper tantrums like a child