What are your thoughts on Hero/Bounty Hunters in general?

[Alkatjo]

I've always wondered what other people thought about these two specific classes. I'm personally not the sniper type but it's interesting to see how these classes adapt based on what map they're on.

 

[Lessen]

i still have not really gotten used to how far to lead my shots on these fastest-ass characters. Because their asses are so fast, you have to lead super far, BUT ALSO, since they're occupying any given spot for a shorter amount of time, i wonder if there's less margin for error on where you can aim. Explaining that theory further is both complicated and unnecessary, either way the fact is that these guys are hard to hit.

They're usually played as snipers, which is pretty reasonable, but I think they can also be really effective as run-and-gun. Hero can use Dash and Dodge and Heal in combination with E-11 3 spray to lay down prolonged bursts of close range accurate fire while being ultra hard to hurt (and being able to retreat and heal off single torso shots from most guns). BH doesn't have dash/dodge/heal, but they DO have a little more armor and a fuckin mysteriously-inaccurate-A280, meaning that while they can't stick around as long as a Hero can, they can lay down an even more intense, very brief burst of searing pain while still being hard to hit.

Gunkick is an interesting thing to me. At some point a while back, I think I had better sensibility AND worse opponents, because i got some pretty good mileage off Gunkick. Whenever I've tried to use it more recently though, the enemy clearly sees it coming from a while away, dodges effortlessly, and cuts me in halfsies. And it's terribly not-that-useful on gunners (except in ambush) since it makes you a sitting duck when you're supposed to be juking around. It has high reward (on either type of class), but it's risk is suuuuuuuuuper high to the point of me wondering if it isn't literally always preferable to just dodge around more. Although I haven't studied the sweepkick enough either. Is it so low as to consistently go under most A/D slashes? i do not know >:0

(and of course they have poison, which, unless you already have the Jedi cornered, uuuusually only manages to make them retreat briefly, but that's preferable to having to retreat yourself, i guess? I dunno, it's a nuanced class. They're both very high-potential classes of course)

 

[Alkatjo]

Good reply, I see myself always ignoring the sniper role entirely and usually put points into pistol/thermal. Burst fire pistol is a godsend for me, i can't tell you how many times i've been cornered and they hear the "dododoo" when i swap into my pistol. Widespread panic ensues. Sith know when to back the fuck up, i'll tell you that from experience. Bounty hunter on the other hand feels like a step down. You sacrifice mobility for a dot that barely does any considerable amount of force damage, but hey at least the A280 has the power of a mini-deathstar.

If i were to pick one out of it just being cooler, i'd probably go bounty hunter. I'm mostly playing imps these days, so i frequently try to experiment with new strategies.

 

[DaloLorn]

@Oddlewad Just don't shoot a D3 Jedi after poisoning him. Trust me. Unless you're good at dodging deflected fire or are absolutely confident that you can kill him, the only thing you'll accomplish is draining 20 HP via poison and losing a lot more than 20 HP via deflects.

(Unless, of course, the Jedi doesn't know that turning on deflect will have no negative effects beyond those already caused by the poison.)

@Alkatjo A fun build I've experimented with on my BH (I hate sniper rifles and consumables like darts, so I typically avoid the class in favor of a T-21 commander or an E-11 soldier):

- All blasters (pistol, E-11, DLT-20) at level 3
- Armor at level 3
- Ammo at level 2

You have a gun for pretty much every situation, if you know which gun to use at which moment, and you're as tough as a BH can get. Walking armory that you are, you don't need the level 3 ammo as much as you need the extra armor.

 

[Gumba]

Hero is in the weakest state it ever was as far as I can remember.
-Proj useless against sith
-Dodge useless in general(hex keeps telling me its good but i never see anyone using it and its just bad imo)
-heal is a joke
-dash every 4 seconds is meh. I think 3 secs would have been fine
-quickthrow is a sad joke (20 points for one quickthrow, which you can do just a little slower manually)
-less armor for same points as bh
-p3 costs less than e11 which forces me to use it in this build(running: proj,p3,ammo3,armor3,dash1,nade)
-proj is still very buggy(cant change weapon after reloading if you tap rmb too quickly, get stuck in scope sometimes)
-armor 2 gives you 45 armor which makes you as tanky as a 2 life et #balance


For BH nothing really changed other than proj being shit against jedi

 

[TadekRaeod]

I feel like Hero,like mentioned above,is more used for sniping,but i use a p3 build(p3 only,ammo3,armor3,dash2,dodge2,heal3).Ofc,i do use a sniping build(don't remember the actual build though)sometimes and a p3/sniper build.I had others,but were cancelled because of reasons xd
As BH,i have a p3/thermal build(darts maxed out,p3,td,armor 2,ammo 3) and two sniping build(one for proj and one for disruptor).I had other builds like an E-11 and DLT-20 one,but those were also cancelled.

 

[Tempest]

I think that aside from Proj being too strong (working on some ideas to address this), both are in a pretty good state. They are versatile and can adapt as pointed out a couple times. DLT is probably my favorite weapon though so maybe I'm slightly biased :X

 

[Noob]

Proj needs projectile drop over distance. It's the only "Projectile" weapon in the game (eh minus blobs) and they should function like real projectiles.

 

[Preston]

I think that aside from Proj being too strong (working on some ideas to address this), both are in a pretty good state. They are versatile and can adapt as pointed out a couple times. DLT is probably my favorite weapon though so maybe I'm slightly biased :X

But proj is useless against Sith now

 

[Gumba]

I think that aside from Proj being too strong

I don't like where this is going...

Is there even someone in the dev team who plays proj? Saying proj is too strong is a freaking joke
What is too strong is ee3 which is basically a proj that is better in any way other than damage.

And since for most targets you need 2 shots anyway(for hero that is:BHs,Mandos,SBDs) the damage doesnt really matter.

 

[Preston]

I don't like where this is going...

Is there even someone in the dev team who plays proj? Saying proj is too strong is a freaking joke
What is too strong is ee3 which is basically a proj that is better in any way other than damage.

And since for most targets you need 2 shots anyway(for hero that is:BHs,Mandos,SBDs) the damage doesnt really matter.

Agreed, there is no reason to nerf hero any more than it already is. p3 nerfed, dodge nerfed, proj nerfed, quick throw bad.

 

[Alkatjo]

I always thought that Jedi/Sith couldn't reflect kinetic energy weapons. Surely the velocity of a round from the rifle would be enough to knock the saber from their hands (unless they have an un-staggering death grip).

 

[SomeGuy]

The only problems I have with them are that the current dodge is not useful enough, pistol 3 is too accurate next to it's moderate rof and high damage, and pop sniping with projectile rifles is stupid. There should be maybe a brief period of 2 seconds or so after moving to get an accurate shot. Maybe change pistols to be like other weapons and be inaccurate while running ( :OOO )

 

[Gumba]

The only problems I have with them are that the current dodge is not useful enough, pistol 3 is too accurate next to it's moderate rof and high damage, and pop sniping with projectile rifles is stupid. There should be maybe a brief period of 2 seconds or so after moving to get an accurate shot. Maybe change pistols to be like other weapons and be inaccurate while running ( :OOO )

send me a video of you doing one successful popsnipe and ill agree with you

 

[Tempest]

I don't like where this is going...

Is there even someone in the dev team who plays proj? Saying proj is too strong is a freaking joke
What is too strong is ee3 which is basically a proj that is better in any way other than damage.

And since for most targets you need 2 shots anyway(for hero that is:BHs,Mandos,SBDs) the damage doesnt really matter.

Allow me to rephrase.

I play Hero/BH a lot (anyone that's a regular player in NA will be able to tell you that's the case). I think Proj itself is too strong in general. Capping the FP drains on it was just a gimmicky way of trying to address it and I think it was the wrong approach. Punishing people for skillful play or limiting possibilities for the sake of limiting them isn't the right mentality. I personally think the issue that makes Proj too strong is that you can basically run around with it like any other gun and 1shot people in 9/10 cases with basically almost no downside/appropriate effort requirement/countermeasure/etc for doing so (in general; yes I know there's counterplay obviously..). Having some kind of requirement for building up the FP drains/health damage instead of just being able to jump out and instagib people (i.e. how old disruptor charge shots basically were) is a more reasonable approach than just having an arbitrary hard limit (which is basically just reversing the issue honestly) and if it had been up to me at the time that's probably more along the lines of what would have been done to it.

I do also think EE3 needs to be adjusted (even just making it so you can't instascope + shoot (speaking of which, isn't there a reason why that got added to proj in the first place?) would be a start) but that's a separate issue.

 

[Gumba]

. I personally think the issue that makes Proj too strong is that you can basically run around with it like any other gun and 1shot people in 9/10

As a Hero, the only people you onshot are sold,et and bh+mando(with armor 2) but thats only on chest hits(or hs).
You cant even kill a armor 0 et with a legshot nowadays. Even Sith tank every shot thats arm or leg.
Proj has a long reload time + firedelay and thats not enough?
And it basically stayed the same over long years and now suddenly it needs to get nerfed into the ground?

 

[Gumba]

oops wrong button delete pls

 

[Tempest]

BHs die with armor 3 in one shot to the chest as well. Just because something has been the way it is for a long time doesn't mean it's been in a good state either.

 

[StarWarsGeek]

BHs die with armor 3 in one shot to the chest as well.

BHs with armor 3 actually can (just barely) survive a single chest shot, due to the tweak to the way armor reduces dmg a few patches ago.
Which is good IMO. Part of the reason proj is so powerful is because it's so deadly even with a chest shot. Besides the obvious wook/sbd/deka, only arc/bh/mando can survive a chest shot, and only with armor 3. That leaves them with something like 10-15hp, so a single hit from almost anything will kill them.

Even Sith tank every shot thats arm or leg.

Sith can't tank proj shots to arm, chest shots and arm shots do the same damage.

Having some kind of requirement for building up the FP drains/health damage instead of just being able to jump out and instagib people (i.e. how old disruptor charge shots basically were)

What did you have in mind? Wouldn't that make proj too similar to ruptor?

I'd like to see proj damage reduced to 100 (current EE-3 dmg), or even slightly lower so it's not quite as deadly on chest shots but still will oneshot anything with a HS (only potential problem is this will stop it from 1shotting wook on HS though). If it weren't so easy to kill people just by aiming for the chest, I think it would be alright to reduce or remove the delay from scoping to firing. Maybe also reduce movement speed with proj even when not scoped in to discourage running around the map with proj waiting to quickscope. TL;DR: encourage headshots, make chest shots less rewarding.

Also agree with EE-3 sniper needing nerf/change, it's definitely more powerful than it should be right now.

 

[Lessen]

I actually kind of dislike the idea of making it more headshot focused. I'm not sure how to articulate why though. One specific reason, though, is that it would make proj dodging more focused around mixing in crouching to twitch your head around, rather than wholesale avoiding getting hit, and that would... make proj a lot less useful? Would make counterplay too effective? Something like that.

Another sort-of explanation for my feeling is: it would make proj... "too skill-based." Right now, proj rewards accurately flicking to where the enemy is going, which is already an impressive feat (in my opinion.) Adding a need to headshot seems..... unnecessary? I'm not sure. I just really prefer the proj skill ceiling to stay relatively low, while also keeping the reward for using it relatively low, rather than giving it a very high skill ceiling (quickscope headshots) with very high reward (instagib).

The reason I would say the reward is "relatively low" right now is because you can't quickscope, you can only kill one combatant (which would be a meaningful statement if people used rank-and-file rallymander Soldier armies more instead of loose specialist lone-wolf squads), and you have a long-ass reload time. And getting that one-combatant kill is pretty hard if that player is mentally present enough to dodge around a bit, especially if they have a feel for when you're going to fire, and throw in a bonus juke right at that moment.

i dunno, it's mostly just kind of a feeling i have that Proj isn't at all too-strong with competent teams. It's certainly dominating with one good sniper vs a bunch of badly-coordinated bad players, but a lot of things are...