Thoughts regarding movement

[Tempest]

I seem to be running into discussions/suggestions regarding player movement more and more so I've decided to create a thread solely dedicated to it. Given that there's basically been no variation from base movement aside from class-specific modifiers and class specials that affect either the speed of the player or involve some kind of displacement (Dash/Rolls/Wook rage/barge mainly), I think that it's been one of the more subtle parts of MB2 and gone unexamined.

That said, the most consistently observed/mentioned issues arise from a similar source: Strafing. Whether it's the speeds of Jedi/Sith making it nearly unrealistic/unreliable to accurately hit them, dueling and having someone being able to zig-zag at max speeds in any direction at any given time, or some classes simply being at a massive disadvantage compared to others because they're slower by a large enough margin that they can't avoid shots while the others they're they're spray n' praying at the ones they're duking it out with and hoping they land the shots (because the enemy can stafe back and forth fast enough that you basically have to hope you'll hit them). That's not to say there's no skill in the maneuvering/gunning/whatever by default but anyone that says that there's no element of the above consistently present probably hasn't been paying much attention, IMO.

I'm not proposing to make every class the same speed or reduce strafe speeds to snail-pace or anything like that. I'm mostly just curious about the thoughts of the community, whether regarding what I mentioned above or anything related and suggestions they have for addressing them (assuming they see/find any problems with what I've said or other things that get brought up). I do also know that a lot of what I've described relates to what gives MB2 a lot of its addictive flavor and I don't want to take away from what makes it entertaining at its core if it's avoidable. Will be interesting to see where things go with this in any case.

 

[StarWarsGeek]

I wouldn't mind a very slight (like 0.95x at most) global reduction in strafe speeds, but I don't really think it's necessary either. I don't think adjusting strafe speed relative to forward movement on a class by class basis would be a good idea, if it's done it should be a global multiplier. This would affect the faster classes much more than the slower ones anyway. Anything more than a very small speed adjustment is going to cause more balance issues than it solves, and detract from what makes MB2 gunning unique and fun IMO.

What I do think needs a speed adjustment is crouching (or walking). Right now, crouch and walk are the same speed but crouching provides way more advantages: smaller target, reduced force push/pull movement, and immunity to kick/wookslap/SBDslap. If strafe speeds get lowered, walking could just be made faster overall to compensate since walk strafing doesn't need to be any slower than it already is.

 

[chicknman]

If it ain't broken, don't fix it. You'll only be reducing the skill ceiling of this game and give a huge crutch to people that should just l2aim.

 

[Jediknight Fou]

Really?
I mean gunners have flinch now as autoprotection and are whining now that jedi/sith are to fast?
In my opinion j/s should get faster running and jumping to get a fair chance or maybe gunners should be slower.
And if someone dies in dueling because zig zag, then youre reaction is too slow, happen to me today, three times, but i was a bit lazy.
In the case of gunner vs gunner, every class is different, too. Imagine a sbd, with the speed of a jedi.
Or do you want rework all classes because of some ppl whine about movement, could be hard, you guys still didnt balanced saberist vs gunner.
Whining gunners get lost with this.

 

[Szunti]

I'd like if you couldn't get weapon accuracy instantly, sometimes I see people who run constantly and has the accuracy of standing guys. Would be nice if it took a split second to slow down or speed up so having high accuracy would be a tactical choice instead of how quickly you can press buttons.

 

[Lessen]

I'd be interested in doing all of these at the same time and seeing what happens:
- reduce strafing speed a little for everyone
- increase spray cone (decrease accuracy) across most/every gun
- as @Szunti said immediately above, have a gradual transition from running accuracy to walking accuracy to incentivize (along with the above nerf to running accuracy) staying in walking mode rather than walking just for brief moments.

that being said, i think all of those changes would essentially buff "defensive positions" and slow down the game. maybe.

 

[Preston]

If it ain't broken, don't fix it. You'll only be reducing the skill ceiling of this game and give a huge crutch to people that should just l2aim.

^

 

[T r i s t a n]

Me to this thread:

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

Well, movement is totally fine atm in my opinion. The only complaint is that on some maps you constantly get stuck while trying to jetpack through doorways as a mando, but that's a map design fault.

Like, why do you suddenly have this idea of changing move speeds? I've never seen anyone complain about that.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

The only problem I have with speed is soldiers being slow as balls compared to all the other classes.
They are slow as SBD's and wookies without their melee upgrades.

It takes me forever to get back into the fight seeing as I can't get somebody to play as an ET for the life of me.

 

[Lessen]

Like, why do you suddenly have this idea of changing move speeds? I've never seen anyone complain about that.

Achilles is the first person I saw directly complain about high strafing speeds. And while it may (or may not) be a new and kind of radical idea, some people do find it interesting, the idea of trying to take gunfights away from being wigglefests.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Achilles is the first person I saw directly complain about high strafing speeds. And while it may (or may not) be a new and kind of radical idea, some people do find it interesting, the idea of trying to take gunfights away from being wigglefests.

I feel that I bring up strafing speeds for saber users, flinching might randomly disappear one day.
I rather have fast as fuck jedi and sith than loose the one thing I asked for and actually got ever since the civil war over "push."

A developer actually listened to me, nah son I rather shut the fuck up and hold onto my flinch system in the corner than loose it and have slower jedi/sith to compensate it.

 

[Lessen]

While the actual situation would require more testing rather than speculation, in theory, you could remove Flinch if strafing speeds were so low that it was much easier to fully drain FP just by blasting. In theory, that would make saberists capable of facerolling gunners if they ambush them at closer range, though. Plus people might develop new ways to be spastic and hard-to-hit.

i feel like the best results would be reached by higher intensity testing of even more varied ideas to see what actual results one gets, but that would require more work

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

While the actual situation would require more testing rather than speculation, in theory, you could remove Flinch if strafing speeds were so low that it was much easier to fully drain FP just by blasting. In theory, that would make saberists capable of facerolling gunners if they ambush them at closer range, though. Plus people might develop new ways to be spastic and hard-to-hit.

See!
Like I said, im not saying shit.

That mechanic is a god send to me.
A fighting game mechanic being put into my first person shooter?
It felt like somebody read through all my autistic bullshit I ever said instead of putting me on ignore like a sane person.

I am perfectly fine with the speeds of everyone if that means flinch is never touched or removed.
(I am still going to bitch about slow soldiers though.)

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

I like how flinch works. I don't like how most of the weapons work, nor how the movement speeds work. Too many weapons are too easy to flinch with, and the high-speeds means fighting saber v gunning is less about timing, more about guessing where the opponent will be when your shot eventually hits him. It is just highly simple and evident that it is 50x easier to hit a soldier, than a hero, exclusively due to the strafe speed. It means gun vs gun has more luck than it should, as well as gun vs saber.

 

[Hexodious]

I like the way movement works in jka. It feels very free, which is something lacking in a lot of games.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

I like the way movement works in jka. It feels very free, which is something lacking in a lot of games.

There is a problem with 'free' movement in a game where you have to lead shots by kilometers, instead of inches.

 

[Lessen]

There is a problem with 'free' movement in a game where you have to lead shots by kilometers, instead of inches.

Not so in Tribes, but Tribes combines speed with momentum so you can make very likely predictions instead of it all being guesses. (I kind of warped the meaning of "free movement" there, though. Probably.)

which is not strictly better or worse or anything, just an observation. I've wondered about what MB2 would be like with some kind of "momentum" to the ground movement (as in the air movement) but it would be a dramatic change...

 

[SomeGuy]

Speaking of a different kind of movement that is severely restricted.... SBD. I think they need some sort of jump, not like regular classes, just something to get over those small obstacles like from the DotF balcony to throne, or that grated upper area in the Kamino main entrance. I was thinking something along the lines of double tapping or holding jump, like for jetpack, and it bounds the SBD forward in a set arc which he cannot turn or deviate sort of like how the wookiee barge works. That way they're still clunky but not handicapped by a knee high step.

 

[eksha]

Imo SBD just needs a higher StepHeight value so it can actually step over those seemingly tiny obstacles. I propose making it scale proportionally with the model size or if that ends up working badly just manually setting it for each class/FA char. That would make sense and be both realistic and beneficial to the gameplay without introducing any gimmicks. Also I'd like to see a return of strafe jumping, but not in the way base (or any other q3 engine game for that matter) works. Instead of hopping around, we could restrict players to only be able to gain speed midair and just reset their speed when they land to avoid bunnyhopping. This way it's a subtle change that won't affect the game too much, but will still allow skilled people to get that extra bit of speed when they need it. As a QLRace/defrag player, I'd love to have this back in some degree or form.

Sorry for the hi-jack. I have a ton of ideas including cvars, balance tweaks and meta gameplay adjustments but I'm not exactly sure how to communicate them here at the moment.