Thoughts regarding movement

[Tempest]

I seem to be running into discussions/suggestions regarding player movement more and more so I've decided to create a thread solely dedicated to it. Given that there's basically been no variation from base movement aside from class-specific modifiers and class specials that affect either the speed of the player or involve some kind of displacement (Dash/Rolls/Wook rage/barge mainly), I think that it's been one of the more subtle parts of MB2 and gone unexamined.

That said, the most consistently observed/mentioned issues arise from a similar source: Strafing. Whether it's the speeds of Jedi/Sith making it nearly unrealistic/unreliable to accurately hit them, dueling and having someone being able to zig-zag at max speeds in any direction at any given time, or some classes simply being at a massive disadvantage compared to others because they're slower by a large enough margin that they can't avoid shots while the others they're they're spray n' praying at the ones they're duking it out with and hoping they land the shots (because the enemy can stafe back and forth fast enough that you basically have to hope you'll hit them). That's not to say there's no skill in the maneuvering/gunning/whatever by default but anyone that says that there's no element of the above consistently present probably hasn't been paying much attention, IMO.

I'm not proposing to make every class the same speed or reduce strafe speeds to snail-pace or anything like that. I'm mostly just curious about the thoughts of the community, whether regarding what I mentioned above or anything related and suggestions they have for addressing them (assuming they see/find any problems with what I've said or other things that get brought up). I do also know that a lot of what I've described relates to what gives MB2 a lot of its addictive flavor and I don't want to take away from what makes it entertaining at its core if it's avoidable. Will be interesting to see where things go with this in any case.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

I recall thinking about making a long-winded post here with links to some strafe fights I have recorded in my frag vids and shit. Maybe I forgot to click "Post".

Anyway I'd like to sum up some thoughts I had there:

MB2 isn't just about aim. It's about positioning and gunfire timinging. If you want to win a strafe fight, get as close as you can. This will reduce bullet travel times and make you an imposing presence to the enemy. Any friends of your enemy will have a harder time shooting at you without dealing damage to your main target as well due to your proximity.

Once you've got your movement nailed down, there's still a matter of understanding how players react to your movement and applying this to enhance your prediction of the target's movements.

Run straight at the enemy, but slightly veering off to the left will generally trigger a natural reaction from the opponent to move in the opposite direction. This gives you a good hunch on where your target will be next. Of course the better players know how to mix this up and confuse your aim.

Either way, I think it's safe to say mainly Achilles is of the opinion that we need to move away from an arcadey movement scheme. I get why that would be cool, but I think many modern shooters already feature this and the fact that MB2 doesn't makes it stand out and always fun to come back to after playing those restrictive realistic shooters.

I don't mind an arcadey movement scheme, but I don't like an arcadey movement scheme AND incredibly slow projectiles+fast fire rates. It is a horrible recipe for the most inconsistent(and/or spammy) blaster fights, until you start getting into weapons like P3 (and even then, more luck than there should be) in which you just hold your crosshair at eye-level and hope they don't crouch as you take slot-machine shots at them thinking they'll run into it.


See, my dream is to have fast projectile speeds, a bit slower movement speed on the faster classes, way slower fire rates, but significantly more damage. I want a bad Jedi to get 1-2 shotted by an E-11, basically.

 

[andrew]

you want a different game

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

you want a different game

If I wanted a different game, I'd be playing a different game. You seem to be mistaking improvement, over a complete change. The saber system has been completely overhauled, and it is obvious saber v gun needs to be overhauled, why not gun v gun?

You'll never really get a skill environment in a Jedi vs Gunner situation until you overhaul either the gun play, or the movement speed. If you don't overhaul that, then you can't really nerf/change force powers, because you'd be making Jedi/Sith nearly worthless.

 

[Lessen]

It's not objectively improvement. It's your strongly-held idea of improvement. If someone disagrees with your idea of what constitutes improvement, then they disagree with your idea of what constitutes the essence of the game, and so they can say from their perspective that you want a different game.

Just to clear that bit of semantics up.

 

[DaloLorn]

I don't mind an arcadey movement scheme, but I don't like an arcadey movement scheme AND incredibly slow projectiles+fast fire rates. It is a horrible recipe for the most inconsistent(and/or spammy) blaster fights, until you start getting into weapons like P3 (and even then, more luck than there should be) in which you just hold your crosshair at eye-level and hope they don't crouch as you take slot-machine shots at them thinking they'll run into it.


See, my dream is to have fast projectile speeds, a bit slower movement speed on the faster classes, way slower fire rates, but significantly more damage. I want a bad Jedi to get 1-2 shotted by an E-11, basically.

It's not objectively improvement. It's your strongly-held idea of improvement. If someone disagrees with your idea of what constitutes improvement, then they disagree with your idea of what constitutes the essence of the game, and so they can say from their perspective that you want a different game.

Just to clear that bit of semantics up.

Actually, it sort of would be a different game. (I think I might like that one better, but that's another matter entirely.)

Most MB2 maps aren't designed with 'realistic' (I think they're realistic, but I honestly don't know) firefights in mind - taking cover can be difficult, shooting out of cover can be outright impossible because your only option is usually to run out or pop out from underneath a very small barrier (small enough that you can reasonably assume you know where the enemy's coming out of) while the enemy's firing at your exit point. It'd take a lot of work to rework the maps (or add an alternative solution) to solve that problem.

Also, teamwork (suppressive fire in particular) would become a lot more important than it already is.