The return of damage reduction

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lol why?
Not having a problem killing Jedi/Sith, but giving an insta-kill class the ability to tank shots is silly. Having the .75x DR while blocking is fine tbh but giving the 20% DR feels like catering to a class that can already do everything.

For instance: Had a sith charge my teammate and swinging wildly with blue, hit him in the back (possibly in the head, hard to say, but definitely upper body) with 4 or 5 shots. Guy still has 15 hp by the time I'm dead. That's a kill last build.

Just bring back b18.02

Discuss.
 
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If I had the proper equipment I probally would of done a video showing what I am talking about ages ago because its hard to put this into words without visual representation :confused:
 
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Pretty sure we know what you're talking about. But, it really doesn't have anything to do with bows and arrows. The only reason you need to lead the target is due to how long it takes for the ammunition to hit the target. Even in battlefront, you still had to lead targets to some extent. I don't think it really has anything to do with the quake engine. I'm sure if the devs wanted to, they could make all projectiles hit instantly.
 
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I want to test that to see if it would still be fun.
If blasters were just as fast as pro rifle rounds, probably be a nightmare but im interested to see the results.
 
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Fa has plenty of insta-gib weapons, classes on various maps.

Play the matrix fa, or the cod tanker, ww2 etc.
Pretty much makes the game too easy. Hardly any lead, all it comes down to is the speed it takes to press your fire button once you got your opponent in the crosshairs.

Believe Som had jedi vs cr3 insta-gib, but they toned down the force dmg while upping force regen so it was ^_^.
 

MaceMadunusus

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The only reason you need to lead the target is due to how long it takes for the ammunition to hit the target. Even in battlefront, you still had to lead targets to some extent. I don't think it really has anything to do with the quake engine. I'm sure if the devs wanted to, they could make all projectiles hit instantly.

Yep, at long range in Battlefront I could easily still hit people with having to lead them by shooting 10 degrees to the left as they ran kind of thing. You definitely still had to lead. Part of the reason why MBIIs seems like you have to lead further and that its harder to aim is the networking is entirely server side resulting in a delay when you fire as well as a bigger difference between your position and the enemies (remember the client interpolates where the enemy is plus latency from last known position). If it was client side hit detection you wouldn't have to attempt to lead as much even with current velocities.

However, yes we can make all projectiles hit instantly or be a hell of a lot faster. Disruptor for example is already hit-scan and the "Gun" weapons you see in FA are also hit-scan. We increased the velocity of the projectiles a couple builds ago. Honestly, I wouldn't mind doing it again.
 

GoodOl'Ben

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I would argue that the changes made to Jedi on the Gun vs Saber helped the game in the right way. Less experienced players felt that it was easier to play as Jedi and while it was harder to play as a Gunner. This is largely due to Jedi having access to a 1-hit kill weapon, stable defense and good crowd control. Jedi is more of a knowledge-based character compared to the Gunners, which also require understanding over a lot of different timings (How long is the Push animation cooldown, how long does that slash unwind, how long does Mindtrick last?) and fast reactions to them.

At the higher levels this is largely the opposite. This was greatly due to the cut-throat nature of Jedi. One mistake and you're dead, because a skilled Gunner will shoot you down after a single mistake. Skilled Gunners will understand your every swing and they will avoid every possible fatal Push/Pull, because they have a large degree of confidence in their reaction times and aim.

However, with damage reduction introduced, a skilled Jedi can now survive an encounter even if it doesn't go entirely their way. The additional DR will grant the much needed survivability. Lesser Jedi will be more affected by the flinch mechanic, as better Jedi already know how to juke and jive around gunners to avoid hits while attacking.

Overall the end result is a more forgiving class to play, while putting more emphasis on timing and movement for direct slash kills.

As a general thing I often pick up while playing is that almost every Jedi/Sith player is impatient and over-reliant on intimidation triggering a fleeing reaction out of the Gunner. Patience and positioning are key to a successfull attack. For those with less patience there are tools like Lightning, Speed, Mindtrick and Grip. These are all strong tools to help with positioning and attack timings.

I recommend giving it some more time. As a player who mainly does well due to good game knowledge as opposed to aim and finesse, I do feel that I am no longer as strong against Jedi as I used to, since I am unable to make my targets flinch and I no longer deal that game-ending damage that I used to with just mad spray alone.

Watching accurate gunners like Qwerty and m00 illustrates the beauty of flinch. Yet somehow I feel that I am more able to face them as a Jedi than I used to. I largely believe this is because of damage reduction giving me some additional leeway.

Flinch + Damage Reduction can be considered a throwback to B17. Jedi received insane knockback when they got shot, while they also had insane damage reduction (bigger than we had now). I often find that B17 was one of the most enjoyable Gun vs Saber builds in terms of mechanics, albeit not in terms of some variables (FP drains, damage reduction, shot velocity, secondary grenade damage).
 

{Δ} Achilles

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Well, I don't know about you, but I'd like it if the weapons had a bit more impact to them, and the gameplay was less about being a strafe monkey. I might use gunner more often then

Movie gunplay (incase people forgot):




(Notice how the clone rifles don't fire 10,000 shots per second, or blob)

How MB2 gunplay feels:


Only with casual laser swords, and ridiculous projectile leading.

Only the laser-sword fighting is now worthless in 1.4, which was the only reason for my enjoying MBII, thanks for that.
 
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not really sure which games can beat the feel of a p3 headshots knockback, or someone surviving a proj

visible projectiles and knockback provide a lot more impact than nearly any other game

if you don't like it, stop whining about it because the basic gunplay has survived for over 10 years and a lot of the community plays the game for it

some dude that only likes to saber coming to the mb2 forums and whining about the gunplay isn't going to convince a single person
 

{Δ} Achilles

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not really sure which games can beat the feel of a p3 headshots knockback, or someone surviving a proj

visible projectiles and knockback provide a lot more impact than nearly any other game

if you don't like it, stop whining about it because the basic gunplay has survived for over 10 years and a lot of the community plays the game for it

some dude that only likes to saber coming to the mb2 forums and whining about the gunplay isn't going to convince a single person

Most FPS games have weapons that atleast feel good to use, Bad Company 2 was by far my favorite, popping heads in hardcore mode with the M1 Garand felt sexy.


Visible projectiles and knockback doesn't add more impact, are you serious? Oh turn every bullet in Call of Duty into a tracer for 100x more impact. That doesn't make sense.

Argumentum ad antiquitatem AND argumentum ad populum in one sentence, I'm impressed.

Maybe if you learned to read, you'd notice that the main reason why I don't play gunner, is because gunner is boring, and now sabering is boring. Gee, god forbid you get an opinion from someone that isn't fellating a dev at this very moment.
 
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why are people like you always so quick to throw out logical fallacies?

i wasn't making an argument you twit, i was telling you to stop whining. i stated my opinion and followed up with a separate statement, was that too difficult for you to comprehend?

you're like the type of person that calls every insult an ad hominem despite no argument being made
 

{Δ} Achilles

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why are people like you always so quick to throw out logical fallacies?

i wasn't making an argument you twit, i was telling you to stop whining. i stated my opinion and followed up with a separate statement, was that too difficult for you to comprehend?

you're like the type of person that calls every insult an ad hominem despite no argument being made

You weren't making an argument? Really? So you weren't actually disagreeing/agreeing with my statements, you weren't providing negative reasoning to counter my argument (even though your reasoning was fallacious). You were just making a completely neutral statement?

Fascinating. Tell me more about how you can attack people's arguments without opening yourself up to criticism in your own.
 
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Any opinion, statement, argument that isn't made by Achilles is a logical fallacy.;)
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Well, I guess it is true we are guilty of the Ad. Ze Ad, ze Ad!!!!!!!

At this point how many of us go :rolleyes: when we see he's posted.
Cue the ad homo attacks.:D
Take your faggotry to pm. I mean, rainbow-ness.Got to be pc.

But, Achoo does have a point. We should make gameplay more...movie-eccentric. I especially liked the purge.:)

Jedi:
Incapable of blocking rapid fire weapons.
Incapable of blocking fire from multiple gunners.

That is all. Implement nao.
 

{Δ} Achilles

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Any opinion, statement, argument that isn't made by Achilles is a logical fallacy.;)
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Well, I guess it is true we are guilty of the Ad. Ze Ad, ze Ad!!!!!!!

What?

At this point how many of us go :rolleyes: when we see he's posted.
Cue the ad homo attacks.:D
Take your faggotry to pm. I mean, rainbow-ness.Got to be pc.

I feel as though you have many medical disorders.

But, Achoo does have a point. We should make gameplay more...movie-eccentric. I especially liked the purge.:)

Jedi:
Incapable of blocking rapid fire weapons.
Incapable of blocking fire from multiple gunners.

If the weapons had more impact, more feel, and were slower firing, I'd be fine with the weapons all doing 1 hit torso kills to Jedi/Sith and other gunners, and greatly nerfing saber deflection/powers. It'd be more thematic, surely, and put more skill in saber vs gunner.



To make weapons feel like there is weight to them, you need to pay close attention, and almost exaggerate the following:

1. Sound Design:
- Weapons must sound like they are hitting hard, and thus you almost have to exaggerate their feeling. A sort of feeling that you get with a good squad of teammates, hearing their weapons right next to your ears, that feeling of presence.
(The difference between M1911 in Bad Company, and M1911 in CoD4)

2. Damage
- Weapons must feel like they're hitting hard, as though they're actually weapons. 1-2 shot kills all make weapons feel like they're doing their job. Probably why I could never personally enjoy arcade style shooters, because the weapons felt laughably pathetic.
(The difference between a saber hit in force unleashed, and a sword hit in chivalry)

3. Impact
- Weapons must feel as though when they miss the opponent, whether wooshing through air or hitting the ground/walls, they are still deadly. The crack of a sniper round nearby your head, should be terrifying. The slam of a tank round next to you. Effects need to be top notch on impacts, whether hits or misses, they need to feel threatening. When you slash a stormtrooper, parts of his body need to be flying clearly free, with sparks and burning embers filling the vision, with his body tumbling as though he was actually hit with something, rather than falling in place like nothing.
(The difference between getting shot at in Arma 3, and getting shot at in CoD.)

4. Recoil
- Weapons must feel to the user as though it has weight and reacts to being used. You have to feel as though you need to put in a decent amount of control to keep the weapon stable the more you use it, as though the weapon itself is fighting you. It makes you invested in the weapon itself, and adds a new element to the gameplay.
(The difference between Battlefield gunplay, and CoD gunplay.)

5. Relation to the player
- The player must move somewhat slower, and the player must feel insignificant compared to the weapons he wields. This adds gravity to the threat. This is what made playing a stormtrooper in Battlefront I feel that much more immersive. There needs to be weight to the player, as well as weight to the weapons. This makes the world also seem larger to the player, and gives more respect to tactics/cover, rather than utilizing movement speed as a defensive tactic.
(Difference between CS:GO's ridiculous movement and Battlefield's movement)
 
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you don't seem to understand that it's more important to find the right combination for the type of game you're trying to make

what is mb2? a combination of the JK series (so quake style gameplay) with CS

what do we have? a blend of the 2

what do you want? apparently chivalry and battlefield as every single post you make calls attention to

play a different game if thats what you want

stop trying to make mb2 something it isnt because thats what YOU prefer
 

{Δ} Achilles

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you don't seem to understand that it's more important to find the right combination for the type of game you're trying to make

what is mb2? a combination of the JK series (so quake style gameplay) with CS

what do we have? a blend of the 2

what do you want? apparently chivalry and battlefield as every single post you make calls attention to

play a different game if thats what you want

stop trying to make mb2 something it isnt because thats what YOU prefer

You speak in fallacies.

Also, I was under the assumption that this was "Movie Battles 2" not "Counter Strike Strafe Battles 2".
 
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So to sum up:

Inaccurate fire upon extended use, aesthetics(sound, visuals), dmg buff to 1-2 shot kills, limited strafing movement and nerfed jedi deflect/powers.
Well, I'm surprised. Going by previous statements I would have never thought you'd want something like that:)

o_O
 
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again, don't see how thats relevant

this is mb2, and it has mb2 gameplay

you're trying to change it to suit your own opinions, go away
 
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