So many patches, yet many more bugs.

[Tasmann]

Alright.

It's not often I come and tell you developers anything wrong about your mod. However, the numerous amount of patches that I keep having to download without seeing any fixes for the actual bugs in the game has driven me beyond senile. I've finally had enough of the glitches and bugs that overall have the ability to ruin my gameplay, that I'm now writing to you to implore you to finally fix your bug-infested mod. Bear with me, this list is going to be hefty.

I. Saber combat

1. Overall, the saber combat is just glitchy and buggy looking. I've recently been getting better at the shitty dueling system that 1.4 as a whole is, and because of that I'm able to see much more clearly just how glitchy it is. It honestly makes me think that everyone is lagging at every single saber strike, because when sabers clash, they just kinda sit there for a split second, and then teleport to another location. This makes dueling very distracting and overall not fun. Please clean it up.
2. This one will probably be disregarded, but I don't care, I'm saying it anyway. The dueling system that came with 1.4 is absolute shit. I honestly don't understand why you guys EVER overhauled the system completely from 1.3, which had a beautifully diverse dueling system. In 1.3, I saw red users, blue users, yellow users, cyan users, purple users, dual users, and staff users all over the place, with there being a healthy diversity as a whole. Then, in 1.4, you completely nerfed red, making it completely and utterly useless, to the point where even a first day noob can drain all of your bp just by holding the block button before you kill him with red. Cyan, yellow, and staff are about the only styles worth using at this point, and all of the community has realized that. I never see red, blue, duals, nor purple anymore. None of it. I don't ever see any of it. Why is that? Because y'all stupidly nerfed everything except those styles, and then super buffed those same styles. Someone can just "turtle up", so to speak, and just hold block for days, and win no matter how good your combos are. I have developed some pretty good combos as of late, but they don't matter for shit because this version favors defensive playstyle more than aggressive playstyle, and that is a fucking huge disappointment and does not promote any sort of skill competition. It's literally just a spam fest to see who the best spammer is. Fucked up. Bring back 1.3 saber system. At least with that there was a wide variety of choices, and no one style was significantly overpowered compared to the other, and each one had a counter.
3. This version punishes aggressive saberists too much. It takes away so much bp just for doing a bunch of combos, despite whether or not they're good or bad. If you attack, you're getting punished, because we shouldn't be aggressive, we should be friendly!!! It's not a fucking jousting match developers, it's a lightsaber battle. Make it more fun, allow good combos to be rewarded rather than punished. Make it fun, and upbeat, because right now, the overly defensive emphasis is boring and dull to both play and watch.

II. Saber vs. Gunner Combat

1. Yeah so this is still a problem. The balance between gunner and saberist is appallingly in favor of the saberist, and the fact that 9 out of 10 times when I join a server each 15-man team has like 10 jedi/sith each is a testament to that. Hell, some games in open the entire team was saberist and I was the only gunner out of 10 people. People aren't dumb, developers, they know that the lack of balance is favored towards saberists. I am primarily a gunner, and honestly it's stressful to get on and the only servers with people are spamming the fuck out of glowsticks. I mean, do you even play the mod that you guys make? Take a fucking look and see just how many times jedi/sith are getting spammed.
2. Flinch is problematic, but not for saberists, rather for gunners. It's inconsistent as fuck. I've blasted saberists that have come really close to me before, and hit them, and they won't get flinched. Why? I don't fucking know, it's probably because of some shitty job of coding or some shit. I'm legitimately pissed about the flinch mechanic because it was nothing more than an excuse to give jedi/sith a damage reduction buff back when 1.4 was originally released. We're now on v1.4.8.1, and it's still a fucking problem. Flinch is still glitchy and inconsistent as fuck, yet the damage reduction of course will work for jedi/sith all the time. Now, when I kick down a jedi, and blast him on the ground, it's not enough, and they're able to get up and extendo saber me, because fuck the gunners. Also, jedi/sith can now effective tank rockets. I have rocketed a jedi/sith literally right in front of me, only to see that they DON'T FUCKING DIE, BUT I DO!!!! THAT is fucking bullshit, and there is no fucking reason a jedi/sith should be able to tank a rocket point blank. And before you even say it, no, they did not push the rocket.
3. Melee combat needs to honestly get a little buffed. It takes a massive amount of time to switch from blaster to melee, and so a gunner being charged by a noob jedi has no time to skillfully knock him down with a well-placed kick. Also, the flying kick special melee move is buggy as fuck. You have to be dead fucking centered on your target in order for it to work, and even then sometimes when you visually hit the opponent, your body just kinda in a choppy, glitchy fashion grazes right off of his side, and he's able to whack you from behind with a saber. I've gotten killed that way too many times to count, and it's fucking too much at this point. I shouldn't be getting killed by some newbie on his second day just because the developers don't want to fix a fucking issue.

III. Miscellaneous Items

1. The Mandalorian class getup time is way too fucking slow. I'm sorry, but Mandalorians are supposed to be a combat savvy race, warriors who struck fear even in the hearts of jedi. How the fuck can that be the case if a fucking turtle can get up faster than them? All it takes is one force push by some newbie jedi and they're dead. The jetpack's movement warmup is already slow enough that they don't need to be getting up so slowly. Give them bounty hunter get up or ARC trooper getup or something, but just don't make them so fucking slow. It's the worst.
2. Grenades are way too fucking bouncy. You can't even properly push them back or escape them from all the way on the other end of the map because of how bouncy they are, they're kinda dumb. Realistically, grenades never bounce that much.
3. Soldier getup is kinda an unnecessary nerfing. One push from 25 feet away and a jedi can get a soldier before he even gets up.
4. Get rid of the damage reduction for jedi/sith classes, there's absolutely no reason for them to have it, and does nothing but encourage noobs to spam those all the time, making for a rather unskilled game.
5. The new DOTF is even worse than the previous one. There's absolutely no fucking reason to remove the catwalk. The pit? Sure, there were a lot of time wasters there, but the catwalk was a legitimate tactic and was a great place to have melee battles and other battles. It was a crowd favorite. The catwalk needs to come back.
6. Blocking radius on staff and duals are really fucking gay, noobs have blocked my saber from behind they backs while doing one of those gay flurry katas triggered by crouching, attacking, and moving forward. Doesn't promote skill.
7. WITH ALL OF THESE FUCKING PATCHES, IT IS HARD TO BELIEVE THAT I EVEN HAVE TO FUCKING MENTION THIS STILL: FIX YOUR FUCKING CLASS BUGS WHEN JOINING A MATCH!!!! The fucking jedi/sith classes still bug out in various ways when you switch to those in open mode, and it's really getting stupid. Sometimes when you select jedi, when the next round begins, it switches you to sith with no points, and all of the sudden you have to scramble to get back on your team and get your setup. Another bug that happens is at the start of the new round after picking a jedi/sith class, you aren't able to bring up class configuration until you click the join tab again after spawning in, giving the message in red text: "Error: Invalid class selection...." until you finally go and fix it. Then, once it is fix, it gives you the fucking default build again, so you have to go change it. Also, there's still a bug where it just won't let you join in in a round. AND STILL YET, there is another bug YET AGAIN WITH THE JEDI/SITH CLASSES! Sometimes, when switching from gunner to sith/jedi, it won't even spawn you as that class, and will leave you at your previous class with skill points invested in all kinds of wonky things, to where I get whacky class builds such as in soldier, it'll give me a 1 life soldier with full armor and ammo, full e-11 and pistol, and 2 concussion grenades, even though I selection a sith with yellow and cyan. It's the stupidest thing and makes no sense. Again, we're on patch version 1.4.8.1, you'd think that by now y'all would have fucking fixed these problems which were happening all the way back in 1.3. For fucks sake...start fixing some actual bugs rather than just changing some small meaningless thing, and calling it a "patch."

Yes, this is an aggressive post, and no, I don't apologize for it. I'm honestly sick and tired of dealing with this bullshit that the developers often times seem to just glance over, and focus on stuff no one asked them to focus on. It's time address some real issues. I mean honestly, the whole thing with the class bugs not even being fixed after like 8 or 9 patches is just absolutely absurd. How could you possibly have not fixed this, let alone address it by now? Come on, devs, please work on these things.

Sincerely,

One pissed off client.



EDIT: This is something that a friend of mine, Reverse Flash, sent me as proof of the spam I indicated.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

3. Map segmentation issues (i guess that is unfixable). Sometimes you can't see/hear anything behind the next door or even a passage (like on the Death star, side corridor from reb spawn). Even force sense doesn't help. Sense should have a radius equal to all directions.

Yep that is correct. Not fixable unless you want really bad performance. Engine limitation and something we can't really work around.

 

[Luna]

More consistent in damage? Proj. one shot 9 out of 10 time, on all class!
More consistent in damage? Proj. one shot 9 out of 10 time, on all class! It is THE strongest and most feared weapons on the battlefield if you're not a Jedi/Sith/Wookie, and even then... You still want to pay very close attention, remain incredibly careful on keeping an eye on these annoying pesky snipers.

One shots what? Maybe only soldier or a BH(not even always on the latter lol). I don't think we're playing the same game since you don't seem to realize that ARCs, Clones or Mando are perfectly capable to tank a direct shoot of a projectile rifle with 100 armor. ET and Hero have dodge which is very strong against snipers if used well. Not to mention SBD or Deka.
Moreover, you're completely ignoring the fact you're unable to switch out the proj rifle during its long animation reload and how Mandos can swiftly switch their sniper mode into the semi-rifle mode, and vice versa with hardly punishment there, which makes it more consistent in damage than proj because it doesn't disable you from fight, it's also got quick snipe shots, while also having a mobility rivaling of the Sith/Jedi with the jetpacks.
Ammo is the only drawback of EE-3.

 

[Tasmann]

1.4.4

1.4.5

So again, you are wrong and yes, its a skill thing. If you dont want to lose any bp while comboing all you need to do is tap attack. You are telling me to present factual evidence even though you presented the argument in the first place without presenting any factual evidence yourself?

I do my research and reply with actual facts but i didnt expect someone to be as ignorant as you and deny them simply because you couldnt be bothered to look them up.

Yeah, flat drains, which is even more lacking in terms of the amount of skill needed to be able to fight with a saber. A newb can just press and hold attack and I'll get the same exact bp drain as he does. I can tap and I'll still lose that same bp.

Also, it's interesting that you completely overlooked these sections in 1.4.5, where the offensive capability for EVERY style got reduced, some being reduced more drastically than others.

1.4.5 Sabering Open Beta:

Styles:

• Blue
  • Swing count of 2
  • Offense Rating: Decreased by 50%
    
  • Defense Rating: Increased by 5%
    
  • Drains (9 base + 1 per 2 ACM) BP on PB - Can trigger BP related staggers
    
  • 20% ACM bonus on specials
  • Loses 3 ACM when body hit
  • Has fast PB counter swings
• Cyan
  • Swing count of 4
  • Offense Rating: Decreased by 22%
    
  • Defense Rating: Decreased by 5%
    
  • All swings can combo break on Perfect Parry
  • Reduces 33% of ACM bonus to parries from opponents
  • 75% damage on consecutive swings
    
  • Loses 4 ACM when body hit
• Yellow
  • Offense Rating: Decreased by 8%.
  • Defense Rating: Unchanged
    
  • Swing count of 4
  • No BP drain for failing Mblock
  • Increases 33% of the ACM bonus to parries to opponents
    
  • Drains 4 ACM on a PB counter body hit
• White
  • Swing count of 4
  • Offense Rating: Decreased by 18%
    
  • Defense Rating: Decreased by 3%
    
  • Successful Mblock no longer automatically counts as a PB by default
  • Mblock related staggers are buffed compared to other styles
    
  • Mblock Vs Swingblock
    • Gain 3 ACM
    • Drain 3 ACM
  • Large block radius.
• Green
  • Offense Rating: Decreased by 10%
    
  • Defense Rating: Unchanged
    
  • Swing count of 5
  • All swings 0.75x damage without ACM
    
  • Special moves have 50% of their ACM multiplier added into their damage
  • Loses 4 ACM on body hit
• Red
  • Swing count of 3
  • Offense Rating: Decreased by 13%
    
  • Defense Rating: Decreased by 2%
    
  • All non-halfswings cause a stagger. Consecutive staggers have reduced durations.
    
  • Being PB counter body hit drains 2 ACM
    
  • Doesn't lose BP when Mblocked on swingblocks
• Purple
  • Swing count of 3
  • Offense Rating: Decreased by 15%
    
  • Defense Rating: Unchanged
    
  • Deals (6 + 1 per ACM) BP through PB - Can trigger BP related staggers
    
  • Being PB counter body hit drains 3 ACM

Raw damage ratings:
1.4.4 (public/live):
Offense ratings from highest to lowest: Red (15), Purple (13), Yellow (12), Staff (11), Duals (10), Cyan (9), Blue (8)
Defense ratings from highest to lowest: Blue (60), Staff (59), Cyan (58), Yellow (56), Duals (54), Purple (52), Red (50)
1.4.5 open beta:
Offense ratings from highest to lowest: Red (13), Purple (11), Yellow (11), Staff (9), Duals (9), Cyan (7), Blue (4)
Defense ratings from highest to lowest: Blue (63), Staff (57), Yellow (56), Duals (55), Cyan (53), Purple (52), Red (49)


Also, you pulling in the changes from 1.4.4 simply does nothing but prove my point, for as indicated in 1.4.5:

Updated: BP drain for attacks moved from being based on button inputs (holding vs tapping) to being flat drains based on style:

• Blue drains 5 BP per swing.
• Cyan drains 5 BP per swing.
• Yellow drains 6 BP per swing.
• Staff drains 6 BP per swing.
• Duals drain 7 BP per swing.
• Purple drains 7 BP per swing
• Red drains 8 BP per swing.
• Not swingblocking during the attack will drain an additional 2 BP

Across the board increase of BP drain. Look at the fucking red style, it's only 2 points above yellow for fucks sake, and yet the defensive rating is 7 points lower. In this version, Yellow, Staff, and Cyan reign supreme, and if you so much as dare to be creative and use the either styles, you've either been using ever since your first day in mb2, or you've a fucking dumbass and forcing yourself to try harder only to be punished and made to look like an utter fool when you get sliced by some first day newbie because he was smart enough to pick staff.

And just look at the percentage decreases above these values. EACH AND EVERY STYLE DECREASED IN OFFENSIVE CAPABILITY! And fucking red takes the worst of all of it. Red is absolutely without a doubt the weakest style now, as it can't really do much more damage than yellow can, and drains so much more BP than one is able to sustain with it. Argue that with your "facts", as you're so foolishly calling them.

By the way, you got your sources from here on the second quote:

1.4.5

• Change: Repeated consecutives (same direction multiple times in a row on a non-halfswing) can no longer be done. However, trying to do the same consecutive swings twice in a row will still allow you to do a halfswing from the same direction or start a consecutive swing from another direction (no self combo breaking when trying to do repeated consecutives).
• Change: Speed lunge/roll stab damage now deal the same damage regardless of what style you're using when activated (normalized to yellow stance's damage, base 65).
• Fix: Can no longer slap to cancel stagger animations.
  
• Change: BP upkeep modifications (swing drains and tap/hold relevancies)
  • Having the attack input pressed will drain BP during the attack phase of swings.
    
  • BP regen stops when holding attack (stops during Mblock)
• Change: PB counter is no longer an instant/fast attack by default. This behavior is moved to being only triggered by successful mblocks. Damage boost is retained in either case.
• Change: Nudge removed.
• Change: Semi-PB removed (pending integration of future changes).
• Change: Reduced cyan max chain from 6 to 4 swings.

The lunge roll stab now normalized for all styles, great, but is there anything that says its bp drain is normalized as well? No, doesn't appear to be, so I ask, does the bp drain then merit the style's value? Because if so, you could be spending more bp than necessary to deal the same amount of damage, and what stands to suffer from this? Red the most.

Also from 1.4.5, I'm not as concerned about this because a lot of these are not skillful moves, although it's worth mentioning that the most stupid ones that newbies like to spam the most tend to not be as punishing as the more skillful:
New: Special moves now cost BP to activate. If you have less than the cost for activating, then you won't be able to use them.

• Blue Lunge: 10
• Blue Backstab: 10
• Staff Backstab: 10
• Backslash: 10
• Crouched Backslash: 20
• Cyan DFA: 10
• Yellow DFA: 15
• Red DFA: 15
• Rollstab: 10
• Dual Butterfly: 10
• Staff Forward Butterfly: 15
• Staff Backflip: 5
• Staff Left Butterfly: 10
• Staff Right Butterfly: 10
• Dual Crouch Kata: 15
• Staff Crouch Kata: 15
• Downstab (Single): 5
• Downstab (Duals): 5
• Downstab (Staff): 5
• Duals Front/Back Stabs: 12
• Duals Side Stabs: 12
• Purple Crouch Kata: 15

But of course, I'm just a completely ignorant person who just denies everything because I can't be bothered with looking up stuff and gathering facts, and surely I must bow to you because you quoted obsolete values from a version not even in effect right now. Yeah. That's totally the case. How dare I EVER accuse you of not even providing the same evidence you were demanding of me when in your first post there was nothing but nay saying.

Next time, try being a little bit more manly. Putting up two random quotes, one of which contains obsolete damage values, and then simply saying your opponent is ignorant is completely uncompelling, and shows that you are an uneducated dumbass who has not the slightest clue on how to properly argue.


@Luna

Uh no the EE-3 also has the drawback of severe inaccuracy. Albeit, that's more in its automatic rifle mode. However, the sniper bolts ever so slightly move slower than the projectile rifle, thus you have to adjust and make more correction with it. It also doesn't do nearly as much damage. The only way which mandos/arcs can tank a projectile rifle shot is if they get hit below the chest. Hit them in the head, and they are dead instantly. I have also hit them in the shoulder and in the upper chest, and they have died instantly. The only classes that can and WILL tank a projectile rifle slot are the SBD, Deka, and Wookiee classes. Also, the ammo limitation is not only a drawback, but is a severe drawback. If you pick up an EE-3 as a Mando, you already have to spend more points in the gun itself, but then you need to make sure you have enough for full ammo, because otherwise your effectiveness goes out the window. This means that Mando will either have less jetpack fuel and have to sacrifice dual-wield westars, or will have to give up the rocket or whatever gadget he is using for one or the other. Whereas, as a bounty hunter or hero, you can have the projectile rifle AND a level 3 pistol, a deadly, DEADLY combination. I go with that build all the time. Full ammo and armor, dash/poison + tracker darts, and I can absolutely annihilate the other team like that. A mando sniper however is extremely incapable of adapting to the various situations because he had to spend so many points just to get the sniper mode for EE-3. Put up two people of equal sniping skill, one mando, one hero, and the hero will win 7 out of 10 times at least.

 

[DaloLorn]

Putting up two random quotes, one of which contains obsolete damage values, and then simply saying your opponent is ignorant is completely uncompelling, and shows that you are an uneducated dumbass who has not the slightest clue on how to properly argue.

There is an amusing irony to that statement, seeing as almost all of what you've copy-pasted from the open beta patch notes has yet to be integrated into a non-beta release...

 

[Gargos]

Mace pretty much summed the opening post but about manda:

Manda does not require a buff that is just crazy talk. Ability to be the most agile class in game thanks to jetpack with 200 hp, anti jedi weapons (flame, jetpack), one hit kill weapon (rocket) and a strong sniper weapon that is the most agile sniper in the game right after m5 (which doesnt deal as much dmg as ee3 tho).

If I were to pick an enemy against me (proj/ruptor bh or manda ee3 sniper) Id pick the bh any day. Ruptor user can be baited and cannot charge so easily anymore after 1 shot. Proj is not as agile in movement and requires time until it can be fired after entering the scope mode. On the other hand ee3 can be used in scope mode while running full manda speed, is accurate even when flying (just stop pressing movement keys and use the gained momentum to move the moment you snipe), can be used instantly after entering scope mode, does decent dmg; can be shot twice with full ammo clip and is rare that 2 shots wouldnt do the job, many times even 1 is enough. Lets not forget that you can resume to blasting your enemy instantly after a sniper shot which cannot be done with ruptor/proj. And those who complain about the ammo are just wasting their bullets too much; ammo 3 is enough for lvl3 ee3 if youre not wasteful.

I am not saying that proj or ruptor are bad. They are very strong but ee3 with manda is a deadly combo that is far more agile and better suited for surprise snipes compared to those 2.

 

[Tasmann]

There is an amusing irony to that statement, seeing as almost all of what you've copy-pasted from the open beta patch notes has yet to be integrated into a non-beta release...

Is that not included now? From what I've seen those base things such as damage values and what not were retained whereas additional stuff that was more complex wasn't. I did see the part where it said not all of the changes were included, but I assume that at least the damage values would have been included, they must have been able to include some of that coding.

However, even if that wasn't included, this has still been a problem ever since the introduction of 1.4. Red got so heavily nerfed that it really is useless. Yellow, staff, and cyan still became king, and Tempest's changes don't seem to really do anything to fix that. In fact, Red is going to get punished even more.

1.4:

• Change: Red BP drain on PB perk removed and given to cyan; cyan BP drain on parry removed. Red stagger on 3rd hit is now a shorter stagger (i.e. the player still cannot block blasterfire or PB swings during the stagger, unlike the flinch feature versus gunners)

• Change: Overall BP drains have been increased by 1.2 times.

• Change: Slightly reduced purple, staff and dual styles' attacking power. Significantly reduced red style's attacking power. Increased cyan's defensive power.

• Change: Blue style's swing chaining capacity is now 2 swings instead of 8.

These are just a couple of examples of the absurd saber system that 1.4 brought. Either way, whether Tempest's changes have been included or not as relates to saber damages or what not (and there was definitely a noticeable difference when the last few updates came along as compared to the original 1.4 release), both systems as a whole favor to a ridiculous degree defensive gameplay and yellow, cyan, and staff styles. Red is absolutely useless. Blue can't keep up that well anymore. Duals are kinda meh. Purple is newbie and boring.

@Gargos

Lol I don't think you even read my post. The rocket doesn't even necessarily one-hit kill jedi anymore. More times than not I've shot a rocket point blank at a jedi ever since the damage reduction they got from 1.4 and they've tanked it, whereas I've died, either from proximity to the explosion or the fall damage from the severe knockback, whereas the jedi is totally fine. So no, the rocket isn't really all it's cracked up to be at the moment. Also, again, getting the sniper mode for Mando requires you to sacrifice so many points in other stuff. At best, you can have one gadget when you get the EE-3, and if it's flame burst, you'll have to suffer from a smaller amount of fuel if you want to still be tanky and allow the EE-3 to have enough ammo.

 

[DaloLorn]

Is that not included now? From what I've seen those base things such as damage values and what not were retained whereas additional stuff that was more complex wasn't. I did see the part where it said not all of the changes were included, but I assume that at least the damage values would have been included, they must have been able to include some of that coding.

To my knowledge, there are no plans to roll out any of those changes until the whole system is ready to go live. (The stuff we really did get in 1.4.5 were comparably minor tweaks that should work fairly well with either of the saber systems.)

 

[SomeGuy]

I wouldn't call gunner vs saberist as balanced as it could be but I also wouldn't call it entirely in favor of the saberist. At least how I've seen is that if a jedi has greater or equal skill than the gunner they will usually win. If the gunner has greater skill they will usually win even with the bugs with flinch (which we will be doing at least one tweak to soon). Its a very uneven curve where at the bottom and middle portions a Jedi will usually win but on the upper part of the skill curve the gunner will dominate even the best jedi.

MB2 has seen a minimum a couple thousand of new players over the past few weeks alone that are trying out MB2 for the first time. It is pretty much a given that new players try jedi/sith first because its the cool thing to do. You are always going to notice an influx in spam of jedi/sith classes around these time periods.

You're right about new players picking saberist first because they expect to be like TCW, but honestly the spam has been there for years. Ever since knockback was removed and swingblocking shots was a thing saberists are prevalent in every game of open. The skill floors and ceilings are quite off as you put it, but in all situations the gunner has to do 10x more work than the saberist regardless of skill. So why would you pick a class that is harder to use and even harder to master? I do it because guns are fun. (Side note Force Only J/S need a huge buff)

Another thing I noticed with class choices, kind of adds to the other thing I was saying, is next after J/S top picked classes are BH/Hero for people that play to win. Now the thing I see prevalent with both of these classes is their 1 Hit Kill ability. Pistol 3 is overpowered, hands down. In the hands of a good aimer it's hard to compete. That's your Jedi killer. I feel like those 2 guns are too accurate and people know it so they go for it. Honestly I feel Pistols should not be 100% accurate all the time, it's a sidearm after all (I know it's been like forever but doesn't mean it isn't stupid) and Snipers should only be accurate when standing still for 2 seconds, or whatever number works, to prevent pop snipes. (E-11 needs more ammo for 1 life classes)

And this is just to get it out while I'm thinking about it, Clone Rifle is too accurate for it's RoF at level 2 or 3.

TL;DR People pick classes with 1 hit kills too often

 

[Luna]

Uh no the EE-3 also has the drawback of severe inaccuracy. Albeit, that's more in its automatic rifle mode. However, the sniper bolts ever so slightly move slower than the projectile rifle, thus you have to adjust and make more correction with it. It also doesn't do nearly as much damage. The only way which mandos/arcs can tank a projectile rifle shot is if they get hit below the chest. Hit them in the head, and they are dead instantly. I have also hit them in the shoulder and in the upper chest, and they have died instantly. The only classes that can and WILL tank a projectile rifle slot are the SBD, Deka, and Wookiee classes. Also, the ammo limitation is not only a drawback,

The keyword is if they hit. Mandos and Arcs are extremely agile and mobile to get consistently hit in the head(unless you don't use their agility and mobility which is your problem in return).

but is a severe drawback. If you pick up an EE-3 as a Mando, you already have to spend more points in the gun itself, but then you need to make sure you have enough for full ammo, because otherwise your effectiveness goes out the window. This means that Mando will either have less jetpack fuel and have to sacrifice dual-wield westars,

Why would you take dual westers if you have ee-3???

or will have to give up the rocket or whatever gadget he is using for one or the other. Whereas, as a bounty hunter or hero, you can have the projectile rifle AND a level 3 pistol, a deadly, DEADLY combination. I go with that build all the time. Full ammo and armor, dash/poison + tracker darts, and I can absolutely annihilate the other team like that. A mando sniper however is extremely incapable of adapting to the various situations because he had to spend so many points just to get the sniper mode for EE-3. Put up two people of equal sniping skill, one mando, one hero, and the hero will win 7 out of 10 times at least.

Rockets are a noob trap anyway. You're better to go with just EE-3 3, Fuel 3, Armor 3, Ammo 3 or if you really want a Flamemethrower then EE-3 3, Fuel 2, Flamethrower, Armor 3, Ammo 3.

 

[Gargos]

@Tasmann since when rocketing jedi point blank was such a good tactic to start with? And I havent honestly seen any problem with jedi tankin rockets all the time, in most cases rocketing a jedi is a dumb move anyways.

Tbh rocket is not even needed for your manda build. A strong build is ee3 sniper, ammo3, armor2, fuel 3 and you can still get flame or wrist. And if you dont want ee3 then westars are strong option too which lets you be more tanky and get armor3. Manda build is easily adjusted to what youre facing, you do not need all at once.

 

[Tasmann]

Rocketing a jedi point blank is actually a great tactic in a team game. Most of the time the jedi are near other rebels, and so you can severely damage and/or kill others in the process as well, thus making your team's job easier.
Honestly, the jetpack is not all that it's cracked up to be. All it takes is one well-timed push from a jedi while you're jumping to activate your jetpack and you're done for. Why? Because of the slow-ass getup time. Why not give mando the bounty hunter/hero roll getup? Takes the same amount of time, but you can at least move around a bit, and so have a slightly better chance. The problem is that force push takes no skill whatsoever, a fresh newbie can get a lucky push and kill you, and no, don't say that you just have to walk more, because there have legit been times where I was walking and still got knocked down by a push or pull, that's another thing that's buggy. However, as a Mando, you would still have to put much more skill and effort into killing a jedi than the jedi would have to put into killing you. The popular choices don't lie, mate. When people start spamming jedi, Mandos don't get spammed, sith and SBD get spammed. Why? Because those require less effort for the same results. The problem is that these classes REWARD lack of effort and drive. They REWARD laziness. The worst part then is when those fools who think they accomplished something start to talk big game as if they're actually good, when really, they just simply won the favor of the MB2 gods. That's what this comes down to. Make the jedi/sith classes demand more skill instead of being so newbie friendly that it's to the detriment of gunners.

 

[Nightwing]

Tasmann isn't wrong with the Mandalorian getup. I live out in the country and don't have the same network capabilities as most players, so a single packet being lost when im holding walk like my life depends on it, ends up with me on my back from someone who didn't even have timing on the push, just luck. then there is the fact you can be pushed over prepping the jetpack. honestly the bounty hunter get up wouldn't be overpower for Mandalorian Class.
its not that much faster, but it does grant a bit of wiggle room. I'm not asking to make the getup equal to an Arc trooper, that would be ridiculous. but a bounty hunter getup would make sense and grant a little more balance. also EE-3 sniper isn't that great. slowever velocity, with high ammo drain, and the fact that if you shoot once then come up against a jedi CQC you're basically bent over a kitchen table as all the jedi has to do is hold block and let you waste your remaining ammo in the clip, since EE-3 is terrible at CQC with the inaccuracy after the first few shots.

 

[Manyo]

Your frustration is understandable, but i feel like most balancing issues in mb2 are pretty subjective since there are so many variables to consider. I think servers with even teams and class limits could remove a lot of frustration. Maybe an official game mode could make that way of playing more popular, i doubt it tho.

Still even if im probably repeating myself way too often on balance i wanna chip in again.
From top to bottom sorted with top needing the biggest nerf in my opinion:

1. Dodge (make every second hit undodgeable while using dodge)
   
2. EE-3 (sniper mode nerf)
   
3. M5 (sniper mode limit to 4 shots/clip, lower fire rate in primary mode)
4. Saberists (vs Gunners)
5. Blobs (vs Mandas, maybe letting them get up faster only after getting blobbed)
   
6. Pistol 3 (overall damage output)
7. Bowcaster (overall damage output, and change lvl 2 mode back, so it's an viable anti-Sith build for more than the top 5% players)
8. Hero Dash
9. Projectile Rifle
10. A280 (overall damage output)

To give the list a better reference, number 10 is pretty close to beeing balanced.
I have not considered SBD at all, because i think it needs major changes to fit the class better within the game. Personally i would like to see all shields removed and give it some form of (jetpack?) dash that drains battery and acts like Heroes Dash. Basically short term mobility in exchange for tanking ability.

 

[SK5]

But of course, I'm just a completely ignorant person who just denies everything because I can't be bothered with looking up stuff and gathering facts, and surely I must bow to you because you quoted obsolete values from a version not even in effect right now. Yeah. That's totally the case. How dare I EVER accuse you of not even providing the same evidence you were demanding of me when in your first post there was nothing but nay saying.

Next time, try being a little bit more manly. Putting up two random quotes, one of which contains obsolete damage values, and then simply saying your opponent is ignorant is completely uncompelling, and shows that you are an uneducated dumbass who has not the slightest clue on how to properly argue.

Because 1.4.5 is effectively the latest patch that affected dueling, i quoted the latest and correct values currently in play. You in the other hand quoted changes from an open beta post which doesnt have anything to do with the current build.

Since now that you have been proven to be wrong multiple times, are you ready to admit that you are wrong and drop this act of self superiority?

 

[Tasmann]

I saw no DEFINITIVE STATEMENT that said that NONE of the changes except those listed for the beta were implemented. Also, I don't know why you're coming in like some hotshot. I'm sorry, am I stepping out of place by giving the devs negative feedback? Boo fucking hoo. Regardless of whether the system is implemented or not, the direction in which it's heading if we go based off of the beta listing is still going to be even more punishing to aggressive playstyle and especially red style. Thus, everything I have said still remains true. 1.4 already punished aggressive play, and 1.4.5 beta values would do nothing but contribute to that. I don't know exactly what you're trying to argue at this point then, because right now all you're basically saying is "hey, look, it's not as defensively biased as it was projected to be."

 

[Luna]

Rocketing a jedi point blank is actually a great tactic in a team game. Most of the time the jedi are near other rebels, and so you can severely damage and/or kill others in the process as well, thus making your team's job easier.
Honestly, the jetpack is not all that it's cracked up to be. All it takes is one well-timed push from a jedi while you're jumping to activate your jetpack and you're done for. Why? Because of the slow-ass getup time. Why not give mando the bounty hunter/hero roll getup? Takes the same amount of time, but you can at least move around a bit, and so have a slightly better chance. The problem is that force push takes no skill whatsoever, a fresh newbie can get a lucky push and kill you, and no, don't say that you just have to walk more, because there have legit been times where I was walking and still got knocked down by a push or pull, that's another thing that's buggy. However, as a Mando, you would still have to put much more skill and effort into killing a jedi than the jedi would have to put into killing you. The popular choices don't lie, mate. When people start spamming jedi, Mandos don't get spammed, sith and SBD get spammed. Why? Because those require less effort for the same results. The problem is that these classes REWARD lack of effort and drive. They REWARD laziness. The worst part then is when those fools who think they accomplished something start to talk big game as if they're actually good, when really, they just simply won the favor of the MB2 gods. That's what this comes down to. Make the jedi/sith classes demand more skill instead of being so newbie friendly that it's to the detriment of gunners.

If Jedi Sith were newbie friendly, the player influx(which is good) wouldn't be so painful to win games with the amount of awful jedi and sith
Also I'm sure as heck Mandos are very popular within the new players.

 

[Nightwing]

Also I'm sure as heck Mandos are very popular within the new players.

gonna have to stop you right there. i play quite a bit and i hardly ever see a mandalorian class. definitely no newbies play them. its not an easy class to play, and very easy to counter.

 

[RC-Delta]

gonna have to stop you right there. i play quite a bit and i hardly ever see a mandalorian class. definitely no newbies play them. its not an easy class to play, and very easy to counter.

I've actually seen 5 new players enjoying the fuck out of mando,(once they were told how to turn jetpack off), so, saying no neoobs play it wrong, but it isn't super popular too.

 

[Gargos]

@Tasmann about that well timed push, it can be a double edged sword. Just bait the jedi to push and get an easy opening to shoot. It is not easy to time a push on a skilled manda who knows to activate jetpack unpredictably. If the jedi succeeds, he is deserving of a win due to a well timed push. If he fails well, the manda gets a golden opportunity to kill the jedi. Id say thats fine.

And about this walk push that is only in your head or your latency is at least 90 or higher. You cannot push some1 who is walking, period. It is not bugged for I have never seen it bug during the 11 years of mb2 that I have played. It may only look like that but EVERYtime somebody has cried a walk push, I have saved the demo and watched it in super slo mo ( real slo mo in JAMME)and ALWAYS I have proven them wrong; they ran even if for a microsecond. The thing is that push actives that instant you hit the push button; not when the animation starts. This can fool some ppl because it may seem like you got pushed while walking due to late animation. If you super slo mo a push, the effect is immediate and happens way before the animation looks like it is goin for the push.

Only crouch anim seems to be bugged that during that animation you may be pushable, not sure but it sure feels like that.

 

[Luna]

gonna have to stop you right there. i play quite a bit and i hardly ever see a mandalorian class. definitely no newbies play them. its not an easy class to play, and very easy to counter.

I don't know on what server you're playing, but in the EU servers there's just almost as many new players picking up Manda as the Jedi and the Sith.