Saber changes 2018 edition

Discussion in 'Feedback & Gameplay' started by Stassin, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. Stassin

    Stassin Movie Battles II Team Retired

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    On top of the slowdown you get when swinging (except with blue/cyan straight swings), a slowdown after having hit ? Blergh. So basically you get punished for getting the better timing and landing a hit. I might be biased on this because for years i've specialised in always rushing and trying to punish ppl who hit & run, so i believe it's a very interesting challenge and it would be horrible to basically remove it. At first like everyone i was frustrated when i encountered this, but i just took it as an obstacle to overcome and after a while thought it's extremely fun. And it works, when you get to the point where you can catch someone suddenly jumping away by instantly jumping after him and swinging; same thing with running. No way i'll agree with any mechanic as blatantly punishing as this, it reduces the skillcap for engaging alot. Buffing force focus against runners, encouraging style switching, and having more punishing parries (especially with stronger styles like red) is more than enough.
     
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  2. noel

    noel Internal Beta Team

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    you can still use good movement though, it doesn't affect walking speed only running, like I say it takes a lot more skill to do it that way than it does to dodge at full speed
     
  3. Stassin

    Stassin Movie Battles II Team Retired

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    It wouldn't take more skill, it would just force players to have less mobile fights, with much more walking and more facehugging; that's indeed harder to do than hit and run, but already exists and happens alot, it would just happen alot more if not almost all the time. Which wouldn't be great for open mode, given how it's already a general opinion that the current system is way too focused around the 1v1 dueling scenario.
     
  4. SeV

    SeV EU Official Server Admin Internal Beta Team

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    It's probably an experimental change added last minute. I don't think much thought went into it. 1v2 open mode etc is rip.
     
  5. {Δ} Achilles

    {Δ} Achilles Nerd Internal Beta Team

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    I don't mind ACM being removed if damages are high, and there is a way to keep people from resetting duels, however I'm not sure if I like the idea of it being reworked. I'd have to see, it doesn't sound awful, but it doesn't sound amazing either.

    Oh goody, so we get 7 flavors of the same style. No. I don't want your horrendously boring concept of how sabering should be. Perks are demonstrably fine if handled well and not like an ape trying to pet a chicken with a sledgehammer. You've never found that 'middle ground' with perks, they're either useless or ridiculously over-bearing, and instead of finding that middle ground you just decide to go 'screw it' and suggest removing everything that adds flavor to the styles. That will *Never* be a popular outlook.

    I want swing direction restrictions from 1.3, I agree fully, they are necessary to reduce the amount of guessing in saber combat due to the insanely fast chaining speeds.

    Or you could have those massive differences *with* perks to further distinguish each style, and you know, make them unique.

    No semi PBs, no NBs, and I can only get behind parry damage if swingblock is nerfed. Adding parry damage doesn't stop parry spam, it just makes it more annoying when that parry spam reduces your BP substantially. We've been down this road multiple times and every time it results in the same issue: Trading.

    Swingblock allows for parry-spam to be more prevalent. People at the highest level who abuse parry spamming do so with swingblock/crouch/shadow swinging to buffer them, if slap was able to prevent them from abusing parrying then the problem would be solved immediately, and then it is simply a matter of balancing slap vs combo damage.

    God no. We've done this before, Stassin. No one wants to *die* from their offense. There is no skill requirement in tapping, it's just something you acquire through minor practice. Stop with fake arbitrary skill floors and INCREASE the skill ceiling.

    Faster resource regeneration benefits skilled players more than it benefits bad players. This is a simple statistical fact evidenced by almost every competitive game in existence. The higher the damage, the faster the resource regeneration, and the more volatile the environment, the more consistent good players will perform. As soon as you lower the regen, you put a finite limit on how well a good player can do against X number of opponents, regardless of skill. That timer between duels harms a good player.

    I favor fast BP regeneration and *very* high damage. (1.3)

    The original idea behind perfect parry was to add more depth to the parry system, so that parry damage might one day be a possibility while making parries actually require some form of skill. The idea wasn't fully explored, but it is still very much so a possibility. It shows me more of your lack of imagination Stassin when you just randomly club things without actually exploring their potential.

    Because it was cancer when it was tried. No one liked it, in any instance of it ever being used.

    No, it doesn't increase the skill cap, it lowers it. Most Mblock counters are accidental. It favors defense and punishes offense even if the player attacking was swingblocking. There is no real counter to it except slow/fast yaws. It means that accidental mblocks are lethal, as you cannot avoid the insta-swing off of being randomly disarmed, even if you react perfectly. Mblock counter needs to go, the only people that like it are people who rely upon it, and I know a few.

    NO. NO. NO. NO. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE I HAVE TO FIGHT WHO JUMP AWAY/AROUND CONSTANTLY? It is annoying. If anything jumping needs to be punished more, and the max jump height before FP usage needs to be lowered significantly. Unless you want to make Yoda's Ataru style in the game (with a PEEEERK) then I see no reason for encouraging the annoying nonsense of trying to play 'Hit the Pinata' with a jumping clown with 0 BP.

    I agree, but I'm against arbitrary bonuses to jumping.

    It does not take more skill to swingblock. It's just muscle memory. Stop it with your swingblock buffs when I see more mindless people abusing swingblock than I do skillful players. Do you know what the meta is right now? It's to swingblock 4 hit counter-combos and tap crouch during startups so you can't be slapped, and trade your opponent to death. It's obnoxious, and it needs to die, buffing swingblock just makes it more prevalent.

    I would rather fight 10 shadow-swingers than 1 counter combo spammer, it's just unpleasant. Although shadow swinging should be nerfed via the removal of ACM. (So long as there is a way to keep people from running/resetting fights)

    I agree with reducing style costs, but I don't agree with making yellow a mandatory style. Yellow obsession is annoying to me when you can balance all of the styles and get more variety.

    Most of your changes would not improve the system, but rather make it incredibly boring.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  6. pelmeņu lauks

    pelmeņu lauks

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    Oh my god :D Assuming somebody's skill from a 7 second gyazo snap, that's great. Then I guess it's safe to assume that you're complete dog shit based on this single screenshot alone:
    [​IMG]

    Back to the topic: [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Stassin

    Stassin Movie Battles II Team Retired

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  8. President Bossk

    President Bossk

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    Something needs to be done about people running from duels too. Maybe make them easier to force focus with low BP? Duels drag out forever because people keep running away.
     
  9. jewbacca

    jewbacca Internal Beta Team

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    Proposed changes are good, nothing much to add. Completely agree with everything.

    On a side note, I somehow knew we're gonna see here Achilles saying ridiculous stuff left and right. I'm actually writing this post just to disagree with his stuff. Since... you know, if there's no objections it might seem like everyone agrees with his point of view / vision. Just saying.
     
  10. |CB|Lyrion

    |CB|Lyrion

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    Not all of what he's saying is wrong too, I don't agree with it all, but its not all false, or bad.

    And don't get me wrong... I'm not saying this because we're friend. If anything, we're actually in conflict, and not going along together.

    But I believe it's not a reason to discard all of his ideas just because I don't love him, or he doesn't love me, or even respect me.

    For the sake of this game we have to analyse all of the proposed ideas regardless of how we feel about each others, if we can't make this mature move, the game is already doomed to a vicious circle of never ending changes, and lack of any innovations.
     
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  11. hleV

    hleV

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    I only disagree with runhits dealing less damage than non-runhits. Running during a duel is already a big enough risk to not have a damage reward for it. Not to mention that it wouldn't make any sense for a runhit to have less impact than a hit from stationary position or while walking.
     
  12. SeV

    SeV EU Official Server Admin Internal Beta Team

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    The opposite is true if you know anything about sword fighting. Your swing doesn't gain momentum if you dash and slash. You stand still, take a stance, swing and step in a controlled manner. Pick up a stick and start jogging, then swing it. It's not the same.

    Besides, running during a duel should be punished with the same kind of philosophy as crouching during a duel should. It even encourages skill because it means you can run then right before impact, swingblock to slow yourself down and avoid the penalty, giving skilled players the ability to differentiate themselves another way. It's about nerfing cheese + giving skilled ppl something to learn and train rather than flattening out the system and making it so every noob with half a brain that understands ACM can be on a high level without knowing the basics.
     
  13. President Bossk

    President Bossk

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    What about fencing though?
     
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  14. Hessu

    Hessu

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    lol, running has a huge reward with minium risks, you get acm and fuck up their timing easily. You are just saying that because your style will be nerfed
     
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  15. Shilling

    Shilling Internal Beta Team

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    fuck reading all this
     
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  16. hleV

    hleV

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    Code:
    StandingSwingSpeed = 0 * SwingSpeed;
    WalkingSwingSpeed = WalkingSpeed * SwingSpeed;
    RunningSwingSpeed = RunningSpeed * SwingSpeed;
    If the impact of your stick swing while running is worse than while standing then it's your fault. Do you jump farther from a stationary position than while running, too?
     
  17. SeV

    SeV EU Official Server Admin Internal Beta Team

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    You're more retarded than I gave you credit for. I concede.
     
  18. pelmeņu lauks

    pelmeņu lauks

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    Then what if you're swinging at your opponent while running AWAY? Didn't account for that one, did you? Besides,
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. hleV

    hleV

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    Calling people retarded with no way of backing it up certainly makes you look smart!
    I don't have to provide examples for all case scenarios to get the idea across. Okay some people may need them, but I'm not to deal with them.
    Also funny for you to use that retarded quote about punching. In my previous post I asked if SeV jumps farther from a stationary position than while running. Apparently yes, and I'm retarded.
    This is a video game. With video game characters not affected by stamina and other factors. Video game characters that don't get tired and can run and swing 24/7. Whatever swing one can pull off while stationary or walking, has the potential to be more devastating with more momentum added to it. Moving faster will add to that momentum, as factors that would prevent that aren't present in the game.
     
  20. ᅠᅠᅠᅠk4

    ᅠᅠᅠᅠk4

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    Can you people fix the spamming issue with blue already and mblock abuse then end up with wasting more time on sabering, kisses.
     
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