Proposed changes

[SeV]

FrenzY: "So, what I suggest is to provide a clear and concise list which features actionable change. Picture yourself as a dev making the actual change and describe it in that manner for that list."

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Okay, I will pull something out of my ass. Numbers will have to be tweaked and tested, and someone like snowblind should take a look since he will know the actual values we're working with better. This is just off the top of my head to get the ball rolling, so it will be a bit messy but can hopefully spark discussion and input/correction, but even if everything on this list is implemented as is, it cannot possibly be any worse than the current shambles.

This was originally a response in a thread but I decided to make a separate topic because it grew large. It's still by no means the full extent of my suggested changes.

Red = Urgent, we all mostly agree on it.
Yellow = Moderate, we all mostly agree on it.
Green = My personal preference, what I think would probably be good for the game. Numbers/tuning can sometimes be inaccurate, but testing can iron out the values.

Anything red or yellow should be taken extremely seriously by devs, and green is me trying to fix tempest's mistakes with my own suggestions.


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• Change: Perfect blocking behaviour reverted to exactly mimic 1.10 zones.
• Change/fix: Hitboxes are now smaller and more precise, should feel like 1.10 hitboxes.
• Change: You can now always PB in returns.
• Change: When bodyhit, your counter-attack will be 25% slower than a normal first swing.
• Change: Perfect blocking enables you to counter-attack freely, guaranteeing the ability to counter into enemy combos at a normal speed.
• Change: Mblock counters increase the speed of a counter-attack by 25% in addition to granting Mblock bonuses.

• Change: The ACM system has been reworked: Will now only use whole numbers. There will be no fractional ACM and damage scaling will follow a linear curve. The following changes are intended to lessen the upfront impact of ACM on the outcome of a duel but the numbers etc are subject to change and are only an initial suggestion to try and get the ball rolling. Tempest's ACM system is not okay.
• Change: 1 ACM = 1.02x damage multiplier.
• Change: ACM limit is 10. When this limit is reached, the character will taunt.
• Change: Yellow, Staff and Purple: 1 bodyhit = 1 ACM. Getting PB'd drains 1 ACM. Getting mblocked drains 2 ACM.
• Change: Blue/Cyan/Duals: 1 bodyhit = 1 ACM. Getting PB'd drains 2 ACM. Getting Mblocked drains 3 ACM.
• Change: Red: 1 bodyhit = 2 ACM. Getting PB'd drains 1 ACM. Getting Mblocked drains 1 ACM.

• Change: BP regen is now 33% slower, 66% slower below half BP.
• Change: Meditating allows you to regen BP 33% faster.
• Change: Perfect blocking an attack increases your BP regen rate by 33% for two ticks.
• Change: Mblocking an attack now grants you one tick of BP regen immediately, in addition to increasing regen rate by 33% for two ticks.
• Change: Mblock defense has been removed.

• Change: If not blocking while running, the defender has a 2.0x incoming damage modifier.
• Change: Incoming damage increase for getting hit while crouching increased to 2.0x
• Change: Outgoing damage multiplier for attacking while crouching reduced to 0.5x
• Change: Incoming damage when knocked down reduced to 1.0x
• Change: Damage multiplier when being hit while doing melee moves reduced to 1.1x
• Change: Hitting too early in an attack animation NO LONGER reduces the damage by up to 30% depending on animation timer.
• Change: When interrupted, now stops you from being able to counter attack.
• Change: PB and MB guarantees one counter even if you have reached your swing limit.
• Change: Sweepkick will always stagger a crouching opponent but will never stagger a standing opponent.
• Change: Side kicking an opponent will knock them back a little bit, similar to how slap functioned in 1.10, but has twice the cd of slap.

• Change: Below 1/4 BP, you now move 5% slower.
• Change: Holding down attack will prevent bp regen from ticking and drain bp equivalent to the rate at which your BP regens normally.
• Change: Swingblocking will allow your BP regen to continue normally while attacking.
• Change: If parrying without swingblocking, your next attack will be interrupted.
• Change: You cannot regenerate BP while crouching, being airborne, or performing a special attack.

• Change: The lightsaber hitbox no longer counts as a bodyhit, but instead as a saberhit: A saberhit reduces incoming damage by 10%

Note: a lot can be done with this saberhit mechanic perk-wise, but for now, I simply want to get it into the game because I autistically hate that the tip of someone's lightsaber counts as exactly the same as digging your saber into their gut. Later on, I would like to make bodyhit counters completely impossible, and tie slow counters to saberhit instead. Also need a sound redesign to make bodyhit and saberhit distinct, perhaps as a competitive option cl_sabersounds 1. Different styles can have different amounts of dmg redux on saberhit etc, but that is for the future... for now, please just make saberhits and bodyhits distinct from one another because it's so gross that sabertip = bodyhit.



Style changes:
These are highly personal adjustments that I would make to the styles, and people may not agree with my direction. I would go further with several styles, but this will suffice for now. Will also just remind you that my values are guesswork and may require tuning.

Blue:

• Change: Perfect blocks no longer delay the opponent's regen.
• Change: Perk: Perfect blocks grant you one regen tick immediately.

Cyan:

• Change: Swing speeds have been adjusted to approximate yellow, especially first swings.
• Change: Swing count increased from 3 to 4.
• Change: Parry perks removed.
• Change: Offense rating 9, defense rating 50.
• Change: Perk: Can perfect parry. Perfect parries act like bodyhits (dealing bodyhit dmg and gaining ACM on the parry).

Yellow:

• Change: Fractional ACM perk removed (no fractions!).
• Change: Perk: Mblock counters grant an additional ACM.

Red:

• Change: Stagger perk removed.
• Change: First hit perk removed.
• Change: Perk: Nudge
• Change: Perk: Jumping attacks stagger on bodyhit.

Purple:

• Change: Offense rating 11, Defense rating 48.
• Change: Swing count increased from 3 to 4.
• Change: Perk: Bodyhits on the opponent prevents them from bodyhit countering.

Staff:

• Change: Previous perks removed
• Change: Perk: Can block attacks from behind at the cost of a 1.4x multiplier.
• Change: Spins have been sped up but their damage has been reduced to 1.2x

Duals:

• Change: Previous perks removed
• Change: Swing count increased to 5.
• Change: Defense rating 48
• Change: Loses an additional 10% BP on parries.

 

[NotJoel]

Good ideas, though ofc the 25% percent increase and decrease of counter swing speed has to be tested first and numbers adjusted (like always). That Perfect parry perk might be a bit OP. And Staff sounds kind of useless perk wise, but the style is strong by itself anyway. But overall very good ideas that just need to be tested and adjusted over time

 

[kvinto]

looks cool but why would you ever use staff in this and please no perfect parry that thing was removed for a reason no idea why it's even back in R20

 

[Leo]

• Change: When bodyhit, your counter-attack will be 25% slower than a normal first swing.
• Change: Incoming damage when knocked down reduced to 1.0x

Purple:

• Change: Offense rating 11, Defense rating 48.
• Change: Swing count increased from 3 to 4.
• Change: Perk: Bodyhits on the opponent prevents them from bodyhit countering.

- damage when knocked down is already 1.0x

- purple having 4 swings with the same offense and defense rating as it already has would made it unnecessarily "more op"? but I can only say that because I can't imagine all your changes in live rn to see how it'd play out

- the bodyhit counter nerf combined with purples perk makes it look useless - the few milliseconds that you have to begin a counter might be completely useless if it results in a 75% speed of default normal first swing, thus the perk might sort of have absolutely no real gain, since it, as a matter of fact, might only improve the experience for the guy getting hit. You'd already be instantly interrupted even if there was no -25% nerf off normal first swing speed (but instead it'd be ripped off the 50% speed increase in animation).

All things considered, this is a huge list and most of the ideas are either good or a must-have. Just feels like you actually put out so much stuff together that it will be hard to further tweak the list to imagine how the build would look like if all your ideas were implemented.

 

[SeV]

- damage when knocked down is already 1.0x

- purple having 4 swings with the same offense and defense rating as it already has would made it unnecessarily "more op"? but I can only say that because I can't imagine all your changes in live rn to see how it'd play out

- the bodyhit counter nerf combined with purples perk makes it look useless - the few milliseconds that you have to begin a counter might be completely useless if it results in a 75% speed of default normal first swing, thus the perk might sort of have absolutely no real gain, since it, as a matter of fact, might only improve the experience for the guy getting hit. You'd already be instantly interrupted even if there was no -25% nerf off normal first swing speed (but instead it'd be ripped off the 50% speed increase in animation).

All things considered, this is a huge list and most of the ideas are either good or a must-have. Just feels like you actually put out so much stuff together that it will be hard to further tweak the list to imagine how the build would look like if all your ideas were implemented.

My take on cyan and purple, barring their removal from the game, is to make them into slightly more defensive/offensive variants of yellow. I have no idea what a good perk would be for purple since I didn't want to copy yellow's perk over, or add something game-breaking. Specific numbers tuning can happen later, but it feels like purple lacks a niche (cyan has parry shit as a niche).

I'd rather not have bodyhit counters at all, and instead have the slowed ones on saberhit but the 25% slowed ones are the least we should do to nerf them even if they have to exist for noobs to not feel fully locked down.

Regarding the ideas being tied together, I actually held back a bit with synergy between ideas, but I think it's important to mention that one of Tempest's fatal mistakes was picking and choosing, because many ideas do not work in isolation. For example, if you have insta counters on PB, you need nudge to start or the defender gets a huge advantage.

Good ideas, though ofc the 25% percent increase and decrease of counter swing speed has to be tested first and numbers adjusted (like always). That Perfect parry perk might be a bit OP. And Staff sounds kind of useless perk wise, but the style is strong by itself anyway. But overall very good ideas that just need to be tested and adjusted over time

Cyan has 9 offense and yellow 10, and I also added cyan with blue in the ACM category, so it loses more ACM if it gets PB'd. Might make up for the perk, but not sure.

looks cool but why would you ever use staff in this

Staff is strong by default. Maybe it could get offense 9 instead of 8. Thinking of maul in 2v1, and added the backwhack perk for such situations. It has 53 defense afaik (blue 54), and is by default a strong style, so it does not, imo, need much to succeed since it can grind hard in facehug.

 

[Valkyrie]

• Change: The lightsaber hitbox no longer counts as a bodyhit, but instead as a saberhit: A saberhit reduces incoming damage by 10%

Note: a lot can be done with this saberhit mechanic perk-wise, but for now, I simply want to get it into the game because I autistically hate that the tip of someone's lightsaber counts as exactly the same as digging your saber into their gut. Later on, I would like to make bodyhit counters completely impossible, and tie slow counters to saberhit instead. Also need a sound redesign to make bodyhit and saberhit distinct, perhaps as a competitive option cl_sabersounds 1. Different styles can have different amounts of dmg redux on saberhit etc, but that is for the future... for now, please just make saberhits and bodyhits distinct from one another because it's so gross that sabertip = bodyhit.

This is by far the one thing I am most excited about!
Everything else looks absolutely great too, and as you said, numbers can evolve if unfitting.

Marvelous post, congrats

 

[noel]

• Change: The lightsaber hitbox no longer counts as a bodyhit, but instead as a saberhit: A saberhit reduces incoming damage by 10%

Note: a lot can be done with this saberhit mechanic perk-wise, but for now, I simply want to get it into the game because I autistically hate that the tip of someone's lightsaber counts as exactly the same as digging your saber into their gut. Later on, I would like to make bodyhit counters completely impossible, and tie slow counters to saberhit instead. Also need a sound redesign to make bodyhit and saberhit distinct, perhaps as a competitive option cl_sabersounds 1. Different styles can have different amounts of dmg redux on saberhit etc, but that is for the future... for now, please just make saberhits and bodyhits distinct from one another because it's so gross that sabertip = bodyhit.

These suggested changes aren't necessarily my idea of a perfect build, but they are very, very close to that. Thank you for taking the time to write this.

The above in particular I'm not a fan of. Whilst I understand the sentiment, I just think movement, playermodels, animations etc are too janky and sporadic in JKA for this to work as nicely as it sounds like it should (I've tried it before in the past and wasn't a fan). I think it has the unintentional consequence of making facehugging and looking at the floor meta, as this is a way to jankily disregard the mechanic and get through your opponent's saber's hitbox.

 

[Yesletterz]

These are excellent proposed changes. The only thing I think we should move away from is forced swing restrictions in certain situations. It feels extremely bad and clunky to input a swing and not get it. This leans into the idea of over complicating systems since you would need to research the under the hood reasons for why your inputs are being eaten. It's not fun to struggle and fumble against a system trying to restrict you.

ALSO SLAP NEEDS TO BE FULLY REVERTED.

 

[Defiant]

I think Hessu had a list of bug fixes which is much more reasonable in scope than this.

 

[handzummest]

I read all of this and I like a lot of the changes, however I'm curious what you think the MOST important parts of your proposed changes are. What do you think if implemented alone would have the biggest positive effect on dueling.

 

[noel]

I think Hessu had a list of bug fixes which is much more reasonable in scope than this.

We've all waited long enough for a good build, implement what you can from the above piece by piece over time. I don't think anyone would mind waiting more time to get SeV's suggestions implemented. You could even release small patches for every block of suggestions that SeV has made, i.e 'sabering defence update', 'sabering ACM update', 'sabering balance update' etc.

 

[Valkyrie]

So it's time for SeV and Hessu to make a baby together. For the saber system lads, make us proud.

 

[Leo]

I think Hessu had a list of bug fixes which is much more reasonable in scope than this.

I read all of this and I like a lot of the changes, however I'm curious what you think the MOST important parts of your proposed changes are. What do you think if implemented alone would have the biggest positive effect on dueling.

"Anything red or yellow should be taken extremely seriously by devs, and green is me trying to fix tempest's mistakes with my own suggestions."

translated to: priority list is red and yellow, green is just something to think about after red and yellow has been sorted out

 

[Hessu]

So it's time for SeV and Hessu to make a baby together. For the saber system lads, make us proud.

No need for that, just gather feedback and have most people agree on necessary changes

 

[.biggs]

FrenzY: "So, what I suggest is to provide a clear and concise list which features actionable change. Picture yourself as a dev making the actual change and describe it in that manner for that list."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, I will pull something out of my ass. Numbers will have to be tweaked and tested, and someone like snowblind should take a look since he will know the actual values we're working with better. This is just off the top of my head to get the ball rolling, so it will be a bit messy but can hopefully spark discussion and input/correction, but even if everything on this list is implemented as is, it cannot possibly be any worse than the current shambles.

This was originally a response in a thread but I decided to make a separate topic because it grew large. It's still by no means the full extent of my suggested changes.

Red = Urgent, we all mostly agree on it.
Yellow = Moderate, we all mostly agree on it.
Green = My personal preference, what I think would probably be good for the game. Numbers/tuning can sometimes be inaccurate, but testing can iron out the values.

Anything red or yellow should be taken extremely seriously by devs, and green is me trying to fix tempest's mistakes with my own suggestions.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

• Change: Perfect blocking behaviour reverted to exactly mimic 1.10 zones.
• Change/fix: Hitboxes are now smaller and more precise, should feel like 1.10 hitboxes.
• Change: You can now always PB in returns.
• Change: When bodyhit, your counter-attack will be 25% slower than a normal first swing.
• Change: Perfect blocking enables you to counter-attack freely, guaranteeing the ability to counter into enemy combos at a normal speed.
• Change: Mblock counters increase the speed of a counter-attack by 25% in addition to granting Mblock bonuses.

• Change: The ACM system has been reworked: Will now only use whole numbers. There will be no fractional ACM and damage scaling will follow a linear curve. The following changes are intended to lessen the upfront impact of ACM on the outcome of a duel but the numbers etc are subject to change and are only an initial suggestion to try and get the ball rolling. Tempest's ACM system is not okay.
• Change: 1 ACM = 1.02x damage multiplier.
• Change: ACM limit is 10. When this limit is reached, the character will taunt.
• Change: Yellow, Staff and Purple: 1 bodyhit = 1 ACM. Getting PB'd drains 1 ACM. Getting mblocked drains 2 ACM.
• Change: Blue/Cyan/Duals: 1 bodyhit = 1 ACM. Getting PB'd drains 2 ACM. Getting Mblocked drains 3 ACM.
• Change: Red: 1 bodyhit = 2 ACM. Getting PB'd drains 1 ACM. Getting Mblocked drains 1 ACM.

• Change: BP regen is now 33% slower, 66% slower below half BP.
• Change: Meditating allows you to regen BP 33% faster.
• Change: Perfect blocking an attack increases your BP regen rate by 33% for two ticks.
• Change: Mblocking an attack now grants you one tick of BP regen immediately, in addition to increasing regen rate by 33% for two ticks.
• Change: Mblock defense has been removed.

• Change: If not blocking while running, the defender has a 2.0x incoming damage modifier.
• Change: Incoming damage increase for getting hit while crouching increased to 2.0x
• Change: Outgoing damage multiplier for attacking while crouching reduced to 0.5x
• Change: Incoming damage when knocked down reduced to 1.0x
• Change: Damage multiplier when being hit while doing melee moves reduced to 1.1x
• Change: Hitting too early in an attack animation NO LONGER reduces the damage by up to 30% depending on animation timer.
• Change: When interrupted, now stops you from being able to counter attack.
• Change: PB and MB guarantees one counter even if you have reached your swing limit.
• Change: Sweepkick will always stagger a crouching opponent but will never stagger a standing opponent.
• Change: Side kicking an opponent will knock them back a little bit, similar to how slap functioned in 1.10, but has twice the cd of slap.

• Change: Below 1/4 BP, you now move 5% slower.
• Change: Holding down attack will prevent bp regen from ticking and drain bp equivalent to the rate at which your BP regens normally.
• Change: Swingblocking will allow your BP regen to continue normally while attacking.
• Change: If parrying without swingblocking, your next attack will be interrupted.
• Change: You cannot regenerate BP while crouching, being airborne, or performing a special attack.

• Change: The lightsaber hitbox no longer counts as a bodyhit, but instead as a saberhit: A saberhit reduces incoming damage by 10%

Note: a lot can be done with this saberhit mechanic perk-wise, but for now, I simply want to get it into the game because I autistically hate that the tip of someone's lightsaber counts as exactly the same as digging your saber into their gut. Later on, I would like to make bodyhit counters completely impossible, and tie slow counters to saberhit instead. Also need a sound redesign to make bodyhit and saberhit distinct, perhaps as a competitive option cl_sabersounds 1. Different styles can have different amounts of dmg redux on saberhit etc, but that is for the future... for now, please just make saberhits and bodyhits distinct from one another because it's so gross that sabertip = bodyhit.



Style changes:
These are highly personal adjustments that I would make to the styles, and people may not agree with my direction. I would go further with several styles, but this will suffice for now. Will also just remind you that my values are guesswork and may require tuning.

Blue:

• Change: Perfect blocks no longer delay the opponent's regen.
• Change: Perk: Perfect blocks grant you one regen tick immediately.

Cyan:

• Change: Swing speeds have been adjusted to approximate yellow, especially first swings.
• Change: Swing count increased from 3 to 4.
• Change: Parry perks removed.
• Change: Offense rating 9, defense rating 50.
• Change: Perk: Can perfect parry. Perfect parries act like bodyhits (dealing bodyhit dmg and gaining ACM on the parry).

Yellow:

• Change: Fractional ACM perk removed (no fractions!).
• Change: Perk: Mblock counters grant an additional ACM.

Red:

• Change: Stagger perk removed.
• Change: First hit perk removed.
• Change: Perk: Nudge
• Change: Perk: Jumping attacks stagger on bodyhit.

Purple:

• Change: Offense rating 11, Defense rating 48.
• Change: Swing count increased from 3 to 4.
• Change: Perk: Bodyhits on the opponent prevents them from bodyhit countering.

Staff:

• Change: Previous perks removed
• Change: Perk: Can block attacks from behind at the cost of a 1.4x multiplier.
• Change: Spins have been sped up but their damage has been reduced to 1.2x

Duals:

• Change: Previous perks removed
• Change: Swing count increased to 5.
• Change: Defense rating 48
• Change: Loses an additional 10% BP on parries.

not sure where these colour values are coming from in-terms of "we have agreed," - I assume from this previous thread but what that thread is, I don't know. either way you've info dumped way too much and it is difficult to respond to, so I will just address the red text.

• Change: Perfect blocking behaviour reverted to exactly mimic 1.10 zones. (acceptable testing period, community poll)
• Change/fix: Hitboxes are now smaller and more precise, should feel like 1.10 hitboxes. (I am always for smaller hitboxes)
• Change: You can now always PB in returns. (debatable; I would rather adopt a mechanic where-in you had to press reload after your swing in order to PB in return)
  

Honestly, I'd like to see the dev team fully start from scatch by ripping out every other style aside from yellow, and address the other styles with considerate thought over a lengthy testing period - but only after the previous style has been cemented / community approved.
There needs to be a baseline style to which every other style is balanced around and yellow just isn't that anymore.

 

[SeV]

not sure where these colour values are coming from in-terms of "we have agreed," - I assume from this previous thread but what that thread is, I don't know. either way you've info dumped way too much and it is difficult to respond to, so I will just address the red text.

• Change: Perfect blocking behaviour reverted to exactly mimic 1.10 zones. (acceptable testing period, community poll)
• Change/fix: Hitboxes are now smaller and more precise, should feel like 1.10 hitboxes. (I am always for smaller hitboxes)
• Change: You can now always PB in returns. (debatable; I would rather adopt a mechanic where-in you had to press reload after your swing in order to PB in return)

Honestly, I'd like to see the dev team fully start from scatch by ripping out every other style aside from yellow, and address the other styles with considerate thought over a lengthy testing period - but only after the previous style has been cemented / community approved.
There needs to be a baseline style to which every other style is balanced around and yellow just isn't that anymore.

'We mostly all agree' comes from the skilled and experienced duelists in the discord R20 feedback channel.

Pressing another key to get PB in returns does not make any sense. I know of no actual top or high-tier duelist who thinks we're better off without PB in returns, or a clunkier version of what should be a baseline mechanic; this is because, as high level duelists, they understand immediately the meta implications of not having PB on return.

There is no time for a lengthy tip-toe process: the game is broken and needs immediate fixing, from the numerous bugs to just basic mechanics being broken, to say nothing of the convoluted web of ACM bs that has been woven into the game arbitrarily. What you're suggesting is a path similar to what has been done the past 8 years or more... reworking everything from scratch... again... and again... and again...

Just fix it, stabilize and improve upon what is there.

 

[Hessu]

• Change: Perfect blocking behaviour reverted to exactly mimic 1.10 zones. 👍
• Change/fix: Hitboxes are now smaller and more precise, should feel like 1.10 hitboxes. 👍
• Change: You can now always PB in returns. 👍
• Change: When bodyhit, your counter-attack will be 25% slower than a normal first swing. 👍
• Change: Perfect blocking enables you to counter-attack freely, guaranteeing the ability to counter into enemy combos at a normal speed. 👍
• Change: Mblock counters increase the speed of a counter-attack by 25% in addition to granting Mblock bonuses. 👍

• Change: The ACM system has been reworked: Will now only use whole numbers. There will be no fractional ACM and damage scaling will follow a linear curve. The following changes are intended to lessen the upfront impact of ACM on the outcome of a duel but the numbers etc are subject to change and are only an initial suggestion to try and get the ball rolling. Tempest's ACM system is not okay. 👍/ 🤔
• Change: 1 ACM = 1.02x damage multiplier. 👍/🤔

• Change: BP regen is now 33% slower, 66% slower below half BP. 👎
• Change: Perfect blocking an attack increases your BP regen rate by 33% for two ticks. 🤔
• Change: Mblocking an attack now grants you one tick of BP regen immediately, in addition to increasing regen rate by 33% for two ticks. 👎

• Change: If not blocking while running, the defender has a 2.0x incoming damage modifier. 👍
• Change: Hitting too early in an attack animation NO LONGER reduces the damage by up to 30% depending on animation timer. 👍
• Change: Holding down attack will prevent bp regen from ticking and drain bp equivalent to the rate at which your BP regens normally. 👍
• Change: Swingblocking will allow your BP regen to continue normally while attacking. 👎
• Change: You cannot regenerate BP while crouching, being airborne, or performing a special attack. 👍

I don't know how to respond to these one by one, so I just used emojis. Also left out the ones not yellow and red. I'm not sure what 1.10 zones and hitboxes were like but I assume they were consistent and better what we currently have lol
👍 = Agree
👎 = Disagree
🤔 = Needs testing/unsure

 

[.biggs]

'We mostly all agree' comes from the skilled and experienced duelists in the discord R20 feedback channel.

Pressing another key to get PB in returns does not make any sense. I know of no actual top or high-tier duelist who thinks we're better off without PB in returns, or a clunkier version of what should be a baseline mechanic; this is because, as high level duelists, they understand immediately the meta implications of not having PB on return.

There is no time for a lengthy tip-toe process: the game is broken and needs immediate fixing, from the numerous bugs to just basic mechanics being broken, to say nothing of the convoluted web of ACM bs that has been woven into the game arbitrarily. What you're suggesting is a path similar to what has been done the past 8 years or more... reworking everything from scratch... again... and again... and again...

Just fix it, stabilize and improve upon what is there.

'We mostly all agree' comes from the skilled and experienced duelists in the discord R20 feedback channel. im perma'd from that disc so that isn't true cos I'm not there.
pressing another button isn't clunky if you're already looking to PB after you've finished your combo - for me it is second nature to press reload to bring my saber back to default stance rather than waiting for it otherwise as that is how my original teacher taught me how to play.
hard to break those kinds of habits even after all these years when it does nothing.
I am not disagreeing with what you've said in terms of the need of a radical overhaul, but I still believe there should be distinctive mechanics that, like my suggestion above, separates a knight from a master.
the problem with 1.5 is that it stripped out all the weird intricacies that made mb2 the game it was.

 

[ZyDus]

maybe the changes were the friends we made along the way

 

[SeV]

I don't know how to respond to these one by one, so I just used emojis. Also left out the ones not yellow and red. I'm not sure what 1.10 zones and hitboxes were like but I assume they were consistent and better what we currently have lol
👍 = Agree
👎 = Disagree
🤔 = Needs testing/unsure

More people should take some time to offer suggestions for changes and additions. The list is nowhere near perfect, just something I wrote up extemporaneously from memory in order to get the ball rolling and help the devs. I believe there is already a list of bugs being worked on, so I did not include specific bug-fixes, but know that there are many broken things in this build beyond it simply being flawed from a design stand-point.

The style section and ACM section in particular needs alternative opinions: propose solid alternatives, e.g alternative purple perks and offense/def values, another way to design blue/duals/staff etc.

I think the first part, all the red and yellow changes, and the dmg multiplier section is pretty solid.

The BP regen should also be discussed further, but it would be better to have recovery be active through PB/MB instead of BP losing importance due to how fast it regenerates: the super fast regen almost makes BP feel expendable and of secondary importance, when it should really be the primary mechanic.

The best middle ground between a long TTK like in 1.4, and what we have now, fast TTK with easy and fast recovery without skill, is to base recovery on skill; this would enable us to keep a fast TTK in situations where there is a difference in skill, while keeping things competitive between evenly matched players, so that the possibility for long, epic fights exist.