People don't play to win

[S o l d i e r]

In MB2 people aren't as focused on winning as in some other games, say Counter Strike 1.6. Here they play more "loosely", which means some people are camping the spawn or some remote location and timewasting, either on purpose or not on purpose, some are spamming taunts around or kicking/punching/melee-kataing teammates, others are having some "cool duelz" in the Gen always running away trying to perform some cool moves, taunting and standing looking at each other all while not being aware that there is anyone or anything else but them on the map, while other are focused on their little part of the battle completely ignoring the team and ignoring winning the game while caring only for their scores, while some are so frag hungry that they shoot/slash enemies even though they know it would hurt their teammates or has a chance to hurt them, or they hurt teammates on purpose, while others choose to go melee duel with the enemy or side with the enemy in killing teammates, or for merely having fun not attacking the enemies and jumping around with them and timewasting, while some are roleplaying in the main sense of that word. People are actually playing more for their scores or for some weird fun than for actually winning the game. Rarely is there any prominent teamplay, and the objectives are secondary, even those that are primary. There are usually one or two people doing the objectives and caring for them while everyone else donesn't even know when the round ends, because they were not paying attention to the objective and those one or two people sneaked behind their lines and completed it. The round limit is very long too which further promotes any camping/fooling around. The most of JKA is, in fact, like this too. This is something that isn't easy to mend, although I know the developers did everything to stop roleplaying and other things which don't have anything to do with MB2's intended gameplay.

 

[LoU]

Because what they enjoy is screwing around with other people and often especially with people who want to play seriously.

/smod ban

 

[Antraxo]

/smod ban

Rude

 

[LoU]

Rude

Trolling is rude.

 

[Antraxo]

Trolling is rude.

So 4 people picking arcs and delta squad models spamming their taunts but wrecking the enemy team is bad? I mean that kind of screwing around like rp-ing something but actually doing good not blocking doors or spouting THEY'VE GOT AIR SUPPORT while jumping off a cliff

 

[Gumba]

So 4 people picking arcs and delta squad models spamming their taunts but wrecking the enemy team is bad

haha when does this ever happen? People who do this are 95% bad

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

You can solve duelists dueling in open mode (As I am one of them, if there is a good duelist on the enemy team I won't gang up on him, instead save him for last), by making it so that saber duels don't take 10 years.

You can't really stop people from doing stupid things though, except kick them for time wasting. Just remember, there is a difference between duelists, RPers, and actual time wasters.

 

[Jediknight Fou]

I don't know I always go for the obj and get shouted at for doing it.
People these days care more about their score than anything else ... I remember battlefront did that at some point to reward way more points for doing obj stuff than killing people.

I know, but you can ignore the haters.
If a teammate always hugs you to stop you from obj is annoying, in this case i would promote teamkilling.
I dont have problems with people trolling and do stupid crap, but when they actively try to prevent their team from winning, they need to get punished.

I think removing kd and just add a proper points system like antraxo said or just the score would be good, maybe score and assists.
Would also help to get less kd whores, which dont care to kill their teammate because of killhungryness.
Every sniper who kills me gets punished even if its an accident, if people play this class i expect them to aim.
People maybe will actually help their team then and not hiding to protect their useless kd.
Also people would work together more and stop fighting over their prey, if two people attack one guy i step back.
If i see 5 saberists jumping on one enemy and killing themselfs, because everyone wants the kill...this is not funny, its sad.

So 4 people picking arcs and delta squad models spamming their taunts but wrecking the enemy team is bad? I mean that kind of screwing around like rp-ing something but actually doing good not blocking doors or spouting THEY'VE GOT AIR SUPPORT while jumping off a cliff

4 arc on catwalk with 2 snipers backing them and my foolish team storms this damn hangar and dies quick and stupid.
Actually the arcs would be forced to move or get insulted if imps would just wait, def the obj and not enter this hangar.
Impatience and killhungry fools are on their side...

 

[S o l d i e r]

You can solve duelists dueling in open mode (As I am one of them, if there is a good duelist on the enemy team I won't gang up on him, instead save him for last), by making it so that saber duels don't take 10 years.

An easy solution would be to slightly reduce the maximum number of BP, maybe only in modes other than the Duel mode.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

An easy solution would be to slightly reduce the maximum number of BP, maybe only in modes other than the Duel mode.

No, that isn't a good solution. Saber swings should just do more damage. Duels in 1.3 were much faster and more flowing, simply because of the BP damages.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

It would result in more frequent /reconnect ing.

We would have to strictly follow objectives, and camp. Some games would be very fast other extremely long. Trolls approve especially those keen on escorting to the object behind own team's back. I am not sure GPumba would be pleased if 5th round in a row someone completed the objective and he got 5 deaths out of air.

...new players would be yelled at for not going straight to the objective.

- - - Updated - - -

Uh, what? /Reconnect did shit because the scores were saved. So unless they reconned 10 to 15 mins later....or changed their ips, that argument was and is moot.

If you want people to play for win, create some clan/team, find another five dudes and play 5 vs 5 match.

Nonsensical. Completely abandons what the majority plays. Which are usually full servers with 20 to 32 people. You address the issues the majority face, not the minority that was never a factor save for ego/ing in their exclusion.

Right, but in pursuing Serious Gameplay I don't think we should oppress the people who enjoy screwing around a bit, hence my argument that we should encourage self-filtering through having servers with contrasting rulesets.

Why would score matter to people that screw around anyway? It's not a reason against, but for.

Having fun and screwing around is fine I think. I'm more pissed about tryhards tbh.

This always makes me laugh. I never try hard. Not once, in all my time in mb, did I ever try hard. And yet I've always been better than most. That's the same with most people who learn, have talent, muscle memory, etc. People don't try hard most of the time. ITS JUST THEIR DEFAULT LEVEL OF SKILL!

Caps lock, so obnoxious. I'm supposed to aim worse than what I naturally can to make other people feel better? Really?
I've seen players that chant try hard miss shooting at afkers. They're standing still Good God!

I screw around half the time I'm at default level. And you know what I mean by screwing around? Taking stupid chances, ramboing, throwing nades into the backs of teammates engaging the enemy, marioing, joust kicking as a flying mando, etc.

I have plenty of fun trying to kill others. Maybe its my overall level that I can screw around like this? But this game is so old everyone should at least be competent at something...

...................................

tl/dr - You can kill with style.

 

[Tempest]

Most of the issues described in here are not problems with MB2 mechanics/aspects of gameplay. It's problems with the players. No matter how score/KDA is affected, incentive there is to actually play as a team/do objectives, and so on, people will still play how they want/do whatever they feel like at the time in whatever game mode. It's the same reason why the whole people flocking to servers that already have population but complain about said servers instead of taking 5-10 minutes to go on an empty server will pretty much always be a thing.

 

[S o l d i e r]

Most of the issues described in here are not problems with MB2 mechanics/aspects of gameplay. It's problems with the players. No matter how score/KDA is affected, incentive there is to actually play as a team/do objectives, and so on, people will still play how they want/do whatever they feel like at the time in whatever game mode. It's the same reason why the whole people flocking to servers that already have population but complain about said servers instead of taking 5-10 minutes to go on an empty server will pretty much always be a thing.

Actually, it pretty much is the problem that playing properly isn't rewarded in any other way than by score and k/d. I will show you this in a simple comparison between MB2 and Counter Strike v1.6 (because I played only that Counter Strike, don't know if others are the same). In Counter Strike, by playing properly you are rewarded everything, from guns, to grenades, to equipment, etc. as you get money for killing/completing the objective, etc. which you can spend on all this during gameplay. MB2 lacks any reward for playing according to its intended gameplay, except some immaginary k/d and score. Your argument that people would always fool around, no matter of the game's gameplay is easily refuted if you take a look how people play Counter Strike; if you have ever played it, then you know. Now I understand that Counter Strike doesn't have 3rd person view, taunts, emotes and funny voice messages like "medic", and that by default JKA is predisposed for roleplay as it is designed with some roleplaying elements included, and that MB2 relies on skill points and skill system instead of earn-and-buy system in-game, but still if things cannot be the same and as good as in Counter Strike then at least some effort can be made to improve them to a better state.

 

[Tempest]

Yes I do understand how CS works in that regard (whether directly compared to MB2 or not). The thing about CS though is that the mindset of players is vastly different in pretty much all cases when you look at MB2. The actual options in gameplay are also largely varied. If you do scrims/any type of competitive inhouse, it's basically an entirely different game.

Edit:
Pretty much every time you go into CS, it's basically the same as what a scrim/inhouse would be like. Same enviroment unless you're doing something like casual room gun game stuff. There's also the fact that if you jack around/screw with people/are otherwise toxic or detrimental to players or the game, there's actual consequences (ala Steam/VAC bans and such). It'll be interesting to see how the mindset of people shifts when there's repercussions that actually stick in MB2..

Giving or taking stuff from someone who doesn't care about those things in the first place wouldn't make a difference. It won't stop people from time wasting. It won't stop people from meleeing (which doesn't depend on having anything whatsoever) or any other shenanigans they come up with.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Most of the issues described in here are not problems with MB2 mechanics/aspects of gameplay. It's problems with the players.

Completely wrong. Everything, in every game, not just mb, is about players interactions with that games mechanics/aspects of its gameplay. How users interact with what their given drives development. You seem to be looking at this...no offense, from someone who only sees the technical aspects...which..considering human beings are mostly irrational and prone to whimsy as well as desires some would call pathological....its narrow-minded in scope and vision.

I don't really want to rehash old threads that don't exist anymore and that I argued 40 pages worth before...but one of the reasons my old idea was implemented was because it would influence player behavior. That was the whole idea behind it. I think the thread was called Dynamic Gameplay or something, don't remember.

Some people, really care about that score and if a round loss hurts their k/d, their ego, they'll try harder and try to make others actually play the game as it was meant to be played. Screwing around is all fine and dandy, but some truly enjoy the game for what it purports to be.

Punish failure, reward success. Motivate interest in winning. Make losing unsavory. Even stupid shit like awarding people titles or adding some accomplishment graphic like a star on the score screen can influence people to strive, thrive and drive off into the sunrise of tomorrow!

For the Future of MB, THINGS MUST MATTER!

 

[Chorb]

The part of the problem is, that most people dont play MB2 as their competitive game. If i want to play a competitive shooter, ill stick whit Overwatch or CS. The sensitivity options make sence, the options are there to practice your aim, the system lets you play whit people of your rating. MB2 has way too small of a playerbase to cater to scrim playstyle, i cannot just plop into a competitive pub match whit 1 minute que time as a solo, and be rated whit people of my skill level.

I play MB2 because of nostalgia, because of its unique sabering system and because its depth as a class based shooter whit cool atmosphere. If i wanted some imbalanced shit whit pretty graphics, id play battlefront. Seriously, duels in that game are literally mashing attack buttons, this is the real gem of mb2.

When you are trying to make saberists more like Reinheart instead of the unique role they had in mb2, i question your sanity. The game does not have the playerbase to cater to pub/scrim players. The game shoudl be fun to hop in pubs, and be able to do well on any class, not feeling a certain class hard counters you if you play well. Whit 1.3 this was very much the case, whit any patch beyond that, it fails to do this. Its why im only sticking to only duel servers every so often, untill some open rebalancing patch lets us have a chance again. I do not enyoy the current Counter Strike : Starwars edition.


TLDR :
If you want competitive mb2, implement a rating system and somehow find 500+ concurrent users on same region. Otherwise stop this madness.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Because a happy medium doesn't exist? It did. Spare me your black and white world view.

 

[Tempest]

I'm viewing it as someone who's played MB2 for a long time and observe(d) the people who play it.

I didn't mean to say that having such incentives for doing things more "properly" wouldn't have any effect whatsoever. The ones who play with a competitive mindset are going to do so regardless of if they get punished/rewarded for whatever actions they take. The ones who don't care/just troll around/etc will continue to do as they have been doing regardless. The scope of what they might be able to do in the process might change but they'll still be trolling/not caring/etc. That's all I was really trying to point out.

 

[LoU]

Most of the issues described in here are not problems with MB2 mechanics/aspects of gameplay. It's problems with the players. No matter how score/KDA is affected, incentive there is to actually play as a team/do objectives, and so on, people will still play how they want/do whatever they feel like at the time in whatever game mode. It's the same reason why the whole people flocking to servers that already have population but complain about said servers instead of taking 5-10 minutes to go on an empty server will pretty much always be a thing.

There is some thing that slows down the game:
5 minutes - too much for a round, it should be cut to 3:30 for more dynamic gameplay - it was brought up many times in the past by top openmode players. Yet, ignored

Completely wrong. Everything, in every game, not just mb, is about players interactions with that games mechanics/aspects of its gameplay. How users interact with what their given drives development. You seem to be looking at this...no offense, from someone who only sees the technical aspects...which..considering human beings are mostly irrational and prone to whimsy as well as desires some would call pathological....its narrow-minded in scope and vision.

I don't really want to rehash old threads that don't exist anymore and that I argued 40 pages worth before...but one of the reasons my old idea was implemented was because it would influence player behavior. That was the whole idea behind it. I think the thread was called Dynamic Gameplay or something, don't remember.

Some people, really care about that score and if a round loss hurts their k/d, their ego, they'll try harder and try to make others actually play the game as it was meant to be played. Screwing around is all fine and dandy, but some truly enjoy the game for what it purports to be.

Punish failure, reward success. Motivate interest in winning. Make losing unsavory. Even stupid shit like awarding people titles or adding some accomplishment graphic like a star on the score screen can influence people to strive, thrive and drive off into the sunrise of tomorrow!

For the Future of MB, THINGS MUST MATTER!

Agreed 101%.

 

[S o l d i e r]

I have one system in mind that could improve the situation. I will write it in a separate thread when I have time.
__________

3:30

This. Or if 3:30 isn't acceptable, then at least 4:00. It was discussed in this thread too: Reduce the round time limit.

 

[ZwM]

I don't know if 3:30 is the right answer. Some maps need much more time to complete the objective and thus their objective would be deemed useless. It would be just kill the enemy team game mode. However making time a variable depending on the server and/or/xor map would probably be a good solution. The only con is that it would be bothersome and inconsistent.