Open is finally dead.

[Defiant]

Feels a bit weird telling that to the lead dev, but surely you realize that your game thrived exactly BECAUSE it gave players the option of goofing around as well as just shooting everyone?

You ever played Team Fortress 2? The exact same concept. The combination of very deep, skill-based gameplay AND goofy taunts & social features. Not focusing on just one, but supporting both.

You know why it worked in TF2? Because Valve was smart enough to give us OPTIONS, and let the community decide what they want. And it paid off tenfold.

TF2 has casual servers, trade servers, prop hunt, competitive servers, leagues, events, tournaments, EVERYTHING. The community hosts and plays the way it wants to.

See what I'm getting at? You are making a fundamental mistake in your development process - you are trying to do the jobs of server admins for them. Don't.

Let server owners & their teams do that. A competitive server? Sure thing, ban all the trolls/timewasters/chatters. A casual server? Sure, anything goes!

Hosts and admins know exactly what kind of gameplay they want on their servers. Let them figure it out and enforce it. You just give them tools & options.

So basically, don't treat social/silly aspects of MB2 as a problem. They absolutely aren't. They are a STRENGTH of this mod, TOGETHER with great gameplay. And if someone disagrees, they can host their own server and ban anyone who looks at them the wrong way. That's FINE. Variety is GOOD.

No one is stopping that. Show me where tf2 has left a bug like floating on each other's heads in because it is funny. There are limits.

 

[Defiant]

JAMP

View attachment 8453

MBII JAMP (first time)

View attachment 8455

Surely that is enough???

I don't know what you are doing differently to what we have done and it is nit really relievent anyway. The default config should have been updated. That it hasn't bern deployed is obviously an error. I will need to look into how it didn't make it into that pk3.

 

[Leo]

I don't know what you are doing differently to what we have done and it is nit really relievent anyway. The default config should have been updated. That it hasn't bern deployed is obviously an error. I will need to look into how it didn't make it into that pk3.

It's easy. I launched JAMP. I edited my W bind. I quit it. I launched MBII JAMP. Looked at what I have bound for W.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

No one is stopping that. Show me where tf2 has left a bug like floating on each other's heads in because it is funny. There are limits.

Ah, now we engage in what's fine and what isn't.

Is flying bad? Maybe, but people loved it. Is nadejumping bad? Maybe, but people loved it. Is animation manipulation bad? Maybe, but people loved it.

I get what your goal is. It is understandable. But it also makes people feel targeted and robbed of their harmless fun. For no apparent reason.

I get that it's a fine line, but I think you are leaning too much to the perfectionist side of things. I don't think fixing bugs is worth it, if it only results in dissatisfied players.

Like, just let people fuck around. Your average casual player loves that kind of thing. It can absolutely be an attraction.

Either way, it's fine even if you disagree. Currently there are bigger issues at hand, so funny jumping can wait.

 

[Teh Evil Cow]

It's not about removing fun, but to give people the confidence that we take what we do seriously, then the first impression can be that.


Another way of looking at it - If the most fun you can have in this game is standing on each others heads - what does that say about the rest of the gameplay? We have obviously failed there if people are extracting more enjoyment from that than actually playing the game. It is perhaps an intresting metric that could be used for overall how right we are getting it. The more enjoyment that is being extracted how we expect the better we are doing. But we cant force that metric up just be removing the curiositys people have found alone

So torso freeze/hugging was removed because the team felt disrespected by people using it often. I can only assume this was the same reasoning behind nade jumping and flying bug. It would've been better if you guys hadn't pretended it was because of "insta kata" (torso freeze) and "imbalances" (secondary nades).

And, yeah, most people use this mod as a chatroom, even if this thought seems perverse to you. Hugging was great for this since it allowed for complex emoting. I get that your goals for this mod are to have it be a shooter, but the two things aren't mutually exclusive. People mess around when they get tired of the combat, and then go right back into it. If anything, the casual elements reinforce the shooter elements - without them, they'd just close the game after getting tired. There's only so much dotf main rushing one can take before wanting to drop explosives down from the catwalk for a bit (not that that happens anymore). And without that outlet, you just close the game.

 

[Kitsu-Nesh'Kaa]

I partially agree that social interaction, meme and trolling often occur in the game. And also the occasional funny moments that we love so much. And this is necessary. But some users overreact, abuse the TK system, intentionally kill / substitute for moving objects (doors, elevators). And then they spend 10 minutes flying, jumping, sitting on each other's heads.
Many of the players come after work in the evening to relax and play, someone to practice their skill, distract themselves from the IRL and 30% of the time they have to sit in spectors because of a young (mental) moron who decided to throw him off a cliff with the nadejump with a thick Porkins carcass or block the passage through the trash compactor door. This is real fun! Lol!
The main problem is that there is no respect inside the game and outside. There is sometimes chaos on the servers, more often malicious jokes, hostile statements and THIS repels new players.

The variety of servers, the lack of adequate moderation and administration on these servers, clear rules and not "I am the administrator, I forbid standing in a particular place" and then kicking from the server - all this allows you to create the same evil chaos.

As for the Open Mode, it's just outdated and needs new classes and features from the Legends that we're waiting for. The duel is alive thanks to Saber fans. FA becomes obsolete with each patch, because the number of weapon/skin files exceeds 1000 and each time they need to be rewritten, additionally balanced, and effects adjusted.
(With all this, many people play the disgustingly dull, boring and silly Ultimate Showdown map, in which there is empty at all.)
Now it's implemented lousy, because each map has its own balance for each weapon, its skin, each character, it's still x100 time to work. Here, the development of a weapon system similar to .sab files for sabers will save the situation. Whether we will wait for this is unknown. SA died before he was even born, but the idea of this regime turned into Legends.
Just give them time to work on the modification further, and don't behave like a tribe of mindless primates inside the game and on the forum and discord.

 

[Leo]

I partially agree that social interaction, meme and trolling often occur in the game. And also the occasional funny moments that we love so much. And this is necessary. But some users overreact, abuse the TK system, intentionally kill / substitute for moving objects (doors, elevators). And then they spend 10 minutes flying, jumping, sitting on each other's heads.
Many of the players come after work in the evening to relax and play, someone to practice their skill, distract themselves from the IRL and 30% of the time they have to sit in spectors because of a young (mental) moron who decided to throw him off a cliff with the nadejump with a thick Porkins carcass or block the passage through the trash compactor door. This is real fun! Lol!
The main problem is that there is no respect inside the game and outside. There is sometimes chaos on the servers, more often malicious jokes, hostile statements and THIS repels new players.

The variety of servers, the lack of adequate moderation and administration on these servers, clear rules and not "I am the administrator, I forbid standing in a particular place" and then kicking from the server - all this allows you to create the same evil chaos.

As for the Open Mode, it's just outdated and needs new classes and features from the Legends that we're waiting for. The duel is alive thanks to Saber fans. FA becomes obsolete with each patch, because the number of weapon/skin files exceeds 1000 and each time they need to be rewritten, additionally balanced, and effects adjusted.
(With all this, many people play the disgustingly dull, boring and silly Ultimate Showdown map, in which there is empty at all.)
Now it's implemented lousy, because each map has its own balance for each weapon, its skin, each character, it's still x100 time to work. Here, the development of a weapon system similar to .sab files for sabers will save the situation. Whether we will wait for this is unknown. SA died before he was even born, but the idea of this regime turned into Legends.
Just give them time to work on the modification further, and don't behave like a tribe of mindless primates inside the game and on the forum and discord.

everything i read from you just implies "THE PLAYERS KILLED THIS PLAYERBASE!!!!". I'm not saying necessarily every trolling that takes place is enjoyable for everyone, but blaming it on the players is no way to go forward.

The main problem is that there is no respect inside the game and outside. There is sometimes chaos on the servers, more often malicious jokes, hostile statements and THIS repels new players.

As is in most of old communities. This doesn't repel new players in the way that you're trying to put it. You making it sound like that's majority of the cases, when we are talking about single digits.

 

[2cwldys]

The main problem is that there is no respect inside the game and outside. There is sometimes chaos on the servers, more often malicious jokes, hostile statements and THIS repels new players.

If the team refuses to lead by example with these social issues, you can see how it goes for the rest of the mod. It's social problems as well as poor dev decisions is the two punch KO for this mod tbh. They don't even make an attempt to stop any of it, and people wonder why PC gamer showcased Movie Duels over MBII. I've invited friends and within hours of their new player experience, aside from having to learn the complexity of MBII systems, all complained about the toxicity in this game and never picked it back up. All of them talk about how most of these players would be banned no questions asked if they had anything to do about it. We're conditioned, and we're used to it, and so we're willing to settle for less to have an enjoyable MBII experience. There's no meanings to an end with decent standards and everything's treated like 4chan /pol/ boards in every chat room. Meanwhile sitting by and denying everything even when hard facts are presented, there isn't much credibility left and far much owed to the players than they're currently getting. When every in game interaction is like a high school lunchroom with extreme cliques and the desire to one up everyone like they are their opponent, this is surely not a good atmosphere to be goose stepping our new players into. Pair all of this with an outdated tutorial, library, and a plethora of new updates with little documentation, there's hardly any hope for any players to stick around in all fairness.

 

[Kitsu-Nesh'Kaa]

everything i read from you just implies "THE PLAYERS KILLED THIS PLAYERBASE!!!!". I'm not saying necessarily every trolling that takes place is enjoyable for everyone, but blaming it on the players is no way to go forward.

Suddenly, it may be a revelation to you that every person from the community, in personal communication, is a wonderful, witty, useful and respectable person. But when such people mix with the masses, they often start to create nonsense and tantrums.

As is in most of old communities. This doesn't repel new players in the way that you're trying to put it. You making it sound like that's majority of the cases, when we are talking about single digits.

Yes, you may be right. But rarely anyone from the younger generation now goes for example to CS 1.6/source instead of CS 2. (If you exclude the graphical component.) And old people still come to play there, in the past versions, where there is almost no control, where you can do anything and write anything. Where they spent their youth, and behaved just as disgustingly then, as today's youth behaves now.

And we are here - D://games/old_unpopular_game/third-party_modification/community.exe

And when someone gives themselves a chance to come here, into this dusty closet, let's be realistic, they are met by a typhoon of shit, insults and troll mechanics, which are very hard to put up with and enjoy the game.

 

[yle yatarn.]

This thread is has more words than the bible at this point.

 

[Kitsu-Nesh'Kaa]

If the team refuses to lead by example with these social issues, you can see how it goes for the rest of the mod. It's social problems as well as poor dev decisions is the two punch KO for this mod tbh. They don't even make an attempt to stop any of it, and people wonder why PC gamer showcased Movie Duels over MBII. I've invited friends and within hours of their new player experience, aside from having to learn the complexity of MBII systems, all complained about the toxicity in this game and never picked it back up. All of them talk about how most of these players would be banned no questions asked if they had anything to do about it. We're conditioned, and we're used to it, and so we're willing to settle for less to have an enjoyable MBII experience. There's no meanings to an end with decent standards and everything's treated like 4chan /pol/ boards in every chat room. Meanwhile sitting by and denying everything even when hard facts are presented, there isn't much credibility left and far much owed to the players than they're currently getting. When every in game interaction is like a high school lunchroom with extreme cliques and the desire to one up everyone like they are their opponent, this is surely not a good atmosphere to be goose stepping our new players into. Pair all of this with an outdated tutorial, library, and a plethora of new updates with little documentation, there's hardly any hope for any players to stick around in all fairness.

Unfortunately, it is impossible to correct all aspects at once, both gaming and communication. Most often, programmers rarely communicate with anyone at all, and only in real critical and important moments for the community do they go out and spend time explaining to everyone why the problems occurred. In large companies, this is solved by a special MANAGER, who is not here and never will be, as this is a thankless job. And no one wants to do it for free, not even someone from the community. Collect streams of stinky substance and at the same time remain a positive and open person. If no one wants serious prohibitive measures, one thing remains, self-regulation of the community. Not ignoring or blaming, but dialogue. Between everyone.
I'm not protecting developers, I'm not protecting the community. BUT at least the developers understand and analyze their mistakes, including focusing on your opinion. And the community (not specific individuals, but the mass) mostly only send rays of hatred.
No one owes anyone anything here. But if you want to get a good game, in a good company of people, with good mechanics and good optimization - be a good player, treat your neighbor and the creators well. Start with yourself, and most importantly, accept the fact that developers need to solve a lot of problems before implementing something new.

 

[foggy]

When your new and you die in 30 seconds and then you cant play again because for the next 4 and a half minutes a bunch of people just want to float half way accross the map standing in a tower of bugged force jumpiness - and theres not even any action you can watch for that period. Would you stay or would you find it a tedious waste of time and go and do something slightly more intresting?

A gamemode exactly like duel, but instead of only saberists we only have gunners!
Let's not call it FFA because it evokes too much association with Nightshade's hacked server

 

[yle yatarn.]

A gamemode exactly like duel, but instead of only saberists we only have gunners!
Let's not call it FFA because it evokes too much assosiation with Nightshade's hacked server

What about a game mode like duel, but you can only play hand-to-hand.

 

[YamThePrussian]

The solution to our woes is clear: We must BEHEAD duel mode players in game with the dismemberment option enabled. Legends and duel mode MUST be removed. Duel mode DLC players have been crying for years about their autistic mouse movement simulator niche. Ignore them. We can also get rid of the ADHD zoomers with "lol" binds by removing legends mode.

Real men have always met in open mode.

 

[yle yatarn.]

We can also get rid of the ADHD zoomers with "lol" binds

That's like killing the entire community.

 

[[SS7]Bobajack]

lol (Love our Lord)

 

[Defiant]

So torso freeze/hugging was removed because the team felt disrespected by people using it often. I can only assume this was the same reasoning behind nade jumping and flying bug. It would've been better if you guys hadn't pretended it was because of "insta kata" (torso freeze) and "imbalances" (secondary nades).

I believe that hugging was removed as it allowed other exploits than hugging along the line of insta kata but it's a long time ago and hard to remember. It's not so simple to keep one part but not the other when fixing a whole class of exploits. It would have had to have been reengineered back in and i doubt it would be a high priority.

The nade change was to fix nades nothing g more.

The flying is obviously a stupid bug, and it's borderline trolling to pretend it is a desirable feature. Sure you can be disappointed a funny bug can't be done anymore, but to seriously suggest it should stay is just ridiculous. The ammount of people who complained about it vastly outnumber the people complaining its gone. I rember being on a 32/32 server when about 6 people stopped fighting to do it, and within about 3 rounds the server was virtually empty.

If the team refuses to lead by example with these social issues, you can see how it goes for the rest of the mod. It's social problems as well as poor dev decisions is the two punch KO for this mod tbh. They don't even make an attempt to stop any of it, and people wonder why PC gamer showcased Movie Duels over MBII. I've invited friends and within hours of their new player experience, aside from having to learn the complexity of MBII systems, all complained about the toxicity in this game and never picked it back up. All of them talk about how most of these players would be banned no questions asked if they had anything to do about it. We're conditioned, and we're used to it, and so we're willing to settle for less to have an enjoyable MBII experience. There's no meanings to an end with decent standards and everything's treated like 4chan /pol/ boards in every chat room. Meanwhile sitting by and denying everything even when hard facts are presented, there isn't much credibility left and far much owed to the players than they're currently getting. When every in game interaction is like a high school lunchroom with extreme cliques and the desire to one up everyone like they are their opponent, this is surely not a good atmosphere to be goose stepping our new players into. Pair all of this with an outdated tutorial, library, and a plethora of new updates with little documentation, there's hardly any hope for any players to stick around in all fairness.

We remove people where was can, but we don't have any control over servers. Unless you want us to remove the ability for 3rd party hosts to run the game, we literally do not have the power beyond what we have done (streamer mode, stronger ignore, disable chat, profanity filter etc.)

 

[yle yatarn.]

I believe that hugging was removed as it allowed other exploits than hugging along the line of insta kata but it's a long time ago and hard to remember. It's not so simple to keep one part but not the other when fixing a whole class of exploits. It would have had to have been reengineered back in and i doubt it would be a high priority.

The nade change was to fix nades nothing g more.

The flying is obviously a stupid bug, and it's borderline trolling to pretend it is a desirable feature. Sure you can be disappointed a funny bug can't be done anymore, but to seriously suggest it should stay is just ridiculous. The ammount of people who complained about it vastly outnumber the people complaining its gone. I rember being on a 32/32 server when about 6 people stopped fighting to do it, and within about 3 rounds the server was virtually empty.

The flying bug is understandable. I don't care if it was just to polish grenades, unless there was something game-breaking about grenade-jump, i think the change about it was unnecessary.

 

[Leo]

wait till they figure out flying bug still works lmao

 

[SeV]

The main take-away is that the game should first and foremost have FUN GAMEPLAY, and that everything else, including FA and maps, should be of lesser import. It's something that has been said since time immemorial.