My Sugestions Toward MB Disarms.

[Chocorope]

Here's my short sujestions toward MB Disarming!

Basically to make it simple, MB Disarm would only be triggerable if the enemy is below 30%, or 20% BPs?

I think that this peculiar change would make alot more sense → (Considering that, in the scenarioes of low BPs[Stamina], the opponent would be tired, wounded) It would also contribute to make it less annoying and.. spammy in Duels.

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Now to add as an EXTRAs, heres few things I just thought about all of this.

Note: The following are sugestions that i've thought in relation to what i've tested in the Saber Beta.

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I think now that, on a second regard, this change could make MB Disarm a slight worthless, irrevelent → (Considering that it might just be simpler to finish the wounded opponent, that, + the fact that it is just so instinctive and random to guess how really low is an opponent BPs on a given time)

What if bellow 20%, or 15% BPs, you can't prevent MB Disarms, even if you SwingBlock? I think it would make MB Disarms more enjoyable and respectable for both parties, as I know alot of you Vets hate it with much of a passion.

So basicaly, the opponent would actually have to highly judge, (when very low), if it's a good idea to risk a strike that might get him/her Freely MB Disarmed, or to just choose to back off and try to PBs and get back a more safer momentum.

→ (It should not be lost of sight that the same rule apply for the Attacker, because if he fail his MB Disarm → [And get staggered, like I last saw in Saber Beta] You could actually freely give back the momentum, or potentialy even the edge of battle to your opponent.)

I think it would add a nice touch to the dueling meta Devs seem to be heading for.

But now, since this is just so very instinctive...

A good way to know when an enemy is sort of low, would be to add that, below a certain amount of BP(Stamina), opponent movements, and or saber swings would get slightly slower over time, as in, the more low the BPs gets, then the slower the movements or swings also become!

→ (This would also fix the shadow swingers issues.)

All of this would force opponent to relly more on PBs, instead of Parries and or backing-off → (backpedaling) play safer to gain back some Stamina [BP] for momentum gain, and a potential comeback.

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Now all of this might be a bit too much, but like I said, its only some EXTRAs I just thought about in the last minutes, things that I think would go along pretty well with what I've tested in the Saber Beta.

That being all said, I think that the original idea, the first lines, would be pretty welcomed, regardless of my EXTRAs, → (Which would most probably require some deeper thought.)

But I think that the idea, overall, is pretty good and would make a lot of people quite happy.

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[Chocorope]

Now some people might argue that it migh ruin the Poker Feeling of Sabering.

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'' if you flail around and look like you are low, then people will move on that. Sometimes I have like 0 BP but I'll still walk strut around my duelers, throws them off, gives me a few slivers of BP back ''


→ And while I do agree and respect the Poker feeling, imo even if the wolf know you're low, it doesnt mean that you cant come back, and throw back the situation around.. If you can PBs, that is.


'' Most of the duels in the films and such were pretty fast paced, till some arm or whatever got sliced off, you only saw them get tired when dealing with multiple gunners, even luke in ESB was going strong till the end ''


→ Again, while I do agree, these movies weren't really thought this aspect in mind, the tiredness, wounds, like into this Dueling Scene I posted above portray much better!

→ It should also be noted that Qui-Gon, while a very good duelist, lost to Maul from being too tired as well, if i recall!

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Like, just try to imagine yourself into a sword battle...

The better opponent manages to wound your legs, or wound yours arms... which progressively slow you down, making you swing less accurately, making you move in a more clumsier way, slower and slower... Slowly tiring you... Slowly stressing you until... pop!

You make the last mistake of your life.

→ (This can be portrayed by the imagination, as you reach low, to critically low BPs.)

And although i'll agree it sure is less flashy, magical, it's far closer to hardcore dueling at that point, which might be too much for casuals.

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→ This scene bellow also portay what i'm trying to explain very well → (about the close relation of Tiredness, Wounds & Disarming aspects in battle), even tho I hated this shit movie.

 

[Chocorope]

Reserved

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My answers & fix to common pointed issues.

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→ ISSUES: ↓

I like your suggestions, but I don't think it would be a good idea to decrease swing and movement speed when low on BP.
Fighting 2v1 is already very difficult and with those speed reductions it would become near impossible to successfully win a 2v1.

→ ANSWER & FIX: ↓

I think it depends on how it would be implemented, without fishing too much into my intense ideas, it could just be a 5/10 or 15% slower debuff on movement speed/swings speed that would trigger bellow a certain amount of BP, say 40% +/- (or so) BPs, which would work as an subtle indicator for the attacker to start contemplating the idea that his opponent is getting critically low enough for you to pop fews MB Disarms in the loot in the coming seconds.

On a site note, after having seen CB-Kael 3v1 people numerous time in 1.4.9, I do believe it will be even easier to achieve for skilled players to do it, without relying solely, or closely on MBs Disarm in the next Sabering Build.

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→ ISSUES: ↓

Besides the fact this was incredibly hard to read, your ideas aren't actually that bad (bar not being able to prevent it via swingblocking) but I think 30% BP would be too small, and ofc it will be quite vague since you can only ever have a rough idea of your opponent's BP

→ ANSWER & FIX: ↓

I'm really trying to make my annoying essays easier to read, could you tell me what made it harder to read? I really need to know that.

Thats very right!

I too think, and the others, that 30% is just too low, as I've writed in the EXTRAs, that it might just make MB disarms irrevelent because of it... which leads to my further EXTRAs changes ideas.

Would you consider something between 40 and 55% and bellow fair enough? (Btw thanks alot for focusing on my primary sugestions, and not too much on my silly side notes.)

Concerning the vague aspect of prediction, I think my debuff on movement speed, and or swing would be a good start to address this issue!

My EXTRAs might be abit too harsh, but i think it just closely depends on how it would be implemented!

Without fishing too much into my intense ideas, it could just be a 5/10 or 15% slower debuff on movement speed/swings speed that would trigger bellow a certain amount of BP, say 40% +/- (or so) BPs, which would work as an subtle indicator for the attacker to start contemplating the idea that his opponent is getting critically low enough for you to pop fews MB Disarms in the loot in the coming seconds.

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→ ISSUES: ↓

I wouldn't mind the saber drop aspect being vs lower bp values only. But I think people should still be punished for their mistake, i.e. a full stagger animation in which you can get some free body hits in rather than just killing them.

→ ANSWER & FIX: ↓

Now what if above 45/50 or 55% BPs, MBs would cause staggers, and bellow these values, would cause Disarm?

I think a good window would be 40 or 45%, and bellow this window, MBs triggers Disarm instead.

these values are a bit random though, I'd need help from better duelist, or community, but from impartial people that won't try to tweak these values at their sole advantage

Imo I think MB disarms window should trigger between 40 or 55% and no less, or no more, I'm just not sure which exact values would be the best

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[Jediknight Fou]

I like this idea, disarm is one of the most annoying things in duels.
The People who mostly try to disarm actually only rely on luck, if you hold swingblock the whole time, you can defeat these people who try only to disarm you very easily, they are often not that strong, still its very tedious.
Youre suggested changes would make it fair, a skilled duelist could defeat them and doesnt get luckdisarmed because he swingblocked one milisecond too late.
Also the point with Quigon was a good one, on a logical site these changes would make sense, too.

 

[MaxorMjauCRO]

I like your suggestions, but I don't think it would be a good idea to decrease swing and movement speed when low on BP.
Fighting 2v1 is already very difficult and with those speed reductions it would become near impossible to successfully win a 2v1.

 

[Hessu]

Just keep it as it is (except that you actually need to pb in order to mblock again) its good if multiple opponents come at you and you can disarm them and get rid of them PLUS its really good on open mode

 

[noel]

Besides the fact this was incredibly hard to read, your ideas aren't actually that bad (bar not being able to prevent it via swingblocking) but I think 30% BP would be too small, and ofc it will be quite vague since you can only ever have a rough idea of your opponent's BP

I think what Hessu said, you should have to PB and Mb at the same time in order to get the Mblock, and you should be punished with a BP drain if you fail either part of that

As for swings slowing down as you run out of BP, I dont like that idea. It would prevent comebacks far too much and allow aggressive playstyles to overshadow defensive ones in a far greater level

 

[n00b]

I think what Hessu said, you should have to PB and Mb at the same time in order to get the Mblock, and you should be punished with a BP drain if you fail either part of that

- this is good

As for swings slowing down as you run out of BP, I dont like that idea. It would prevent comebacks far too much and allow aggressive playstyles to overshadow defensive ones in a far greater level[/QUOTE]

- and i couldn't agree more.

 

[Chocorope]

I like this idea, disarm is one of the most annoying things in duels.
The People who mostly try to disarm actually only rely on luck, if you hold swingblock the whole time, you can defeat these people who try only to disarm you very easily, they are often not that strong, still its very tedious.
Youre suggested changes would make it fair, a skilled duelist could defeat them and doesnt get luckdisarmed because he swingblocked one milisecond too late.
Also the point with Quigon was a good one, on a logical site these changes would make sense, too.

I'm very happy you understand my point behind these change, thanks alot for the reply and the support ♥

 

[Chocorope]

I like your suggestions, but I don't think it would be a good idea to decrease swing and movement speed when low on BP.
Fighting 2v1 is already very difficult and with those speed reductions it would become near impossible to successfully win a 2v1.

Don't over focus too much on my silly extras, more on the original idea, please.

I was just messing around with my imagination, and Tempest told me its not possible unless they add a bunch, a bunch of new animations for it to work.

Besides, I think it depends on how it would be implemented, without fishing too much into my intense ideas, it could just be a 5/10 or 15% slower debuff on movement speed/swings speed that would trigger bellow a certain amount of BP, say 40% (or so) BPs, which would work as an subtle indicator for the attacker to start contemplating the idea that his opponent is getting critically low enough for you to pop fews MB Disarms in the loot in the coming seconds.

On a site note, after having seen CB-Kael 3v1 people numerous time in 1.4.9, I do believe it will be even easier to achieve for skilled players to do it, without relying solely, or closely on MBs Disarm in the next Sabering Build.

 

[Chocorope]

Just keep it as it is (except that you actually need to pb in order to mblock again) its good if multiple opponents come at you and you can disarm them and get rid of them PLUS its really good on open mode

As long MB Disarming is getting harder to achieve im totally in for it, the issue here being the ping! The ping would make your sugestion too inconsitant I think, maybe even imposible toward a big, way too big range of players. Timing would be totally fucked up from players to players, second by seconds.

Beside, I think it work too closely to how MBs actually work right now

What I'm trying to find is a good compromise between Attackers/Defenders, as well making it in the more consistant, pleasurable and respectable manner possible for both parties.

 

[Chocorope]

Besides the fact this was incredibly hard to read, your ideas aren't actually that bad (bar not being able to prevent it via swingblocking) but I think 30% BP would be too small, and ofc it will be quite vague since you can only ever have a rough idea of your opponent's BP

I'm really trying to make my annoying essays easier to read, could you tell me what made it harder to read? I really need to know that.

Thats very right!

I too think, and the others, that 30% is just too low, as I've writed in the EXTRAs, that it might just make MB disarms irrevelent because of it... which leads to my further EXTRAs changes ideas.

Would you consider something between 40 and 55% and bellow fair enough? (Btw thanks alot for focusing on my primary sugestions, and not too much on my silly side notes.)

I think what Hessu said, you should have to PB and Mb at the same time in order to get the Mblock, and you should be punished with a BP drain if you fail either part of that

Hessu Idea aint wrong, but the issue being ping would make it incredibly inconsitant from players to players and seconds by seconds, I think?

beside I dont think his idea work much differently then today's MBs Disarm.

As for swings slowing down as you run out of BP, I dont like that idea. It would prevent comebacks far too much and allow aggressive playstyles to overshadow defensive ones in a far greater level

Yeah, but I think it depend on how it would be implemented! My EXTRAs might be too hard, and beside, Tempest told me it would be imposible to do unless they add a bunch of new animations for it to work.

A less harsh manner to implement this, would be that, a 5/10 or 15% slower debuff on movement speed/swings speed would trigger bellow a certain amount of BP, say 40% (or so) BPs, which would work as an subtle indicator for the attacker to start contemplating the idea that his opponent is getting critically low enough for you to pop fews MB Disarms in the loot in the coming seconds.

 

[Chocorope]

I think what Hessu said, you should have to PB and Mb at the same time in order to get the Mblock, and you should be punished with a BP drain if you fail either part of that

- this is good

As for swings slowing down as you run out of BP, I dont like that idea. It would prevent comebacks far too much and allow aggressive playstyles to overshadow defensive ones in a far greater level

I've answered to these mentioned issues up there in the thread, feel free to read and give back your oppinion, or something to help making it viable!

 

[Chocorope]

Alright everyone, thanks alot for feedback and the participations!

i'd just like to add that it would be advised to read my answers above to understand my concepts, ideas a slight beter, and also to not over focus on my silly EXTRAs and more on the original concept

Feel free to speak your mind and help adding things, or fix to these concept to make them more viable, enjoyable!

 

[Hexodious]

I wouldn't mind the saber drop aspect being vs lower bp values only. But I think people should still be punished for their mistake, i.e. a full stagger animation in which you can get some free body hits in rather than just killing them.

 

[MaxorMjauCRO]

Alright everyone, thanks alot for feedback and the participations!

i'd just like to add that it would be advised to read my answers above to understand my concepts, ideas a slight beter, and also to not over focus on my silly EXTRAs and more on the original concept

Feel free to speak your mind and help adding things, or fix to these concept to make them more viable, enjoyable!

Sorry for only focusing on silly EXTRAs

Mblocking is (somewhat) difficult to successfully pull off, at least for me... but I also struggle with Pblocking so what do I know...

Anyway, players who are able to consistently pull off Mblocks should be rewarded for it, but Mblocking also shouldn't be able to instantly kill an opponent who has full BP, in my opinion.
That's the reason I support your suggestion that Mblocking cannot be prevented when you are under 50% BP. I feel like 30% BP is a little too low, so your opponent doesn't have to struggle with Mblocking, he can simply finish you off with a few combos.

 

[Chocorope]

I wouldn't mind the saber drop aspect being vs lower bp values only. But I think people should still be punished for their mistake, i.e. a full stagger animation in which you can get some free body hits in rather than just killing them.

That's good! My idea's are only mere sugestions to make it more pleasurable, add more sense but also some more deep to the game!

You can see it like a base to work on with? Maybe something that might give inspiration for something else? I'm totally open for these kind of ideas, as long its more balanced for everyone, then i'm happy!

I'm posting my ideas for you guys to work around with it, its nothing I see fixed in the ground

I'm happy you guys add things to it

 

[Chocorope]

Sorry for only focusing on silly EXTRAs

Mblocking is (somewhat) difficult to successfully pull off, at least for me... but I also struggle with Pblocking so what do I know...

Anyway, players who are able to consistently pull off Mblocks should be rewarded for it, but Mblocking also shouldn't be able to instantly kill an opponent who has full BP, in my opinion.
That's the reason I support your suggestion that Mblocking cannot be prevented when you are under 50% BP. I feel like 30% BP is a little too low, so your opponent doesn't have to struggle with Mblocking, he can simply finish you off with a few combos.

Thats very right! I too think, and others, that 30% make it too irrevelent.

See my reserved post up there which adress this common pointed Issue! Also, make sure to read @Hexodious comment above, he just gave me some inspiration!

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→
Now what if above 45/50 or 55% BPs, MBs would cause staggers, and bellow these values, would cause Disarm?

I think a good window would be 40 or 45%, and bellow this window, MBs triggers Disarm instead.

these values are a bit random though, I'd need help from better duelist, or community, but from impartial people that won't try to tweak these values at their sole advantage

Imo I think MB disarms window should trigger between 40 or 55% and no less, or no more, I'm just not sure which exact values would be the best

 

[MuscBodypillow]

I wouldn't mind the saber drop aspect being vs lower bp values only. But I think people should still be punished for their mistake, i.e. a full stagger animation in which you can get some free body hits in rather than just killing them.

I was once disarmed by someone when he was mid-jump while he was looking away from me ( I sneaked up to him) as I W swing his back.
There is clearly something wonky with the system.

 

[Chocorope]

Everyone reading! Make sure to read my Reserved POST above the page which adress Answers & Fix for the many problems being pointed at!

Will help quite alot to keep in touch with the fixed changes concerning all of this