Logical Sabering?

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Hi, I'm new here. I've been playing for a couple of weeks, but before that I wised up and read a bunch of guides on literally everything in this game. But I feel like dueling is still a problem, because I found out that running out of BP is countered by wildly spamming combos, and swingblocking feels unrealistic.

What if combos were limited to having the first hit not be PB'd? It doesn't make sense for a real sword fighter to have a strike blocked and then be able to swing another few times at a blocking person quickly, it'd make more sense if the individual hits were more precise and combos were follow-ups to strikes. The only real fighting where one can just whale on somebody else is boxing, because blocking a punch doesn't affect the aggressor.

Also, slapping in a duel only makes sense if the opponent isn't swinging. Who would consider a barehanded attack useful against an enemy swinging an indestructible laser sword? Slaps should only connect if the opponent is readying or following through a strike, or jumping/crouching.

Swingblocking seems like a sort of exploit, and really unrealistic. If you parry, then ok. But who blocks a slap by swinging a sword while blocking during the attack? By making slaps more opportunistic, it'd make sense for them to have longer cooldown, and swingblocking would be disregarded for pure offense when swinging, and the variety of PBs, MBs, and parries on defense.

Note that I am a total noob, but these solutions seem logical, not difficult to implement (comparatively), and it would make dueling less combo-based and more about precise strikes, because a single lightsaber strike is basically game over for the recipient.

If there are pros out there, and you see something I missed, feel free. Please don't write "dumb lol bye," though. I want to understand the dueling system, and I really like this mod.
 

PuNk

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I think your criticism is heavily based on what is realistic or not when that's not how the game works or is about at all. It's about gameplay balance, not so much about realism.
 

Helix

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have a strike blocked and then be able to swing another few times at a blocking person quickly
Take a look at these moments.
Anakin at 1:45
Obiwan at 0:28
They pretty much spam.
 
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I concede the point, but I feel like facehugging spam should not be the best way to defend against strikes at the moment.
 
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I concede the point, but I feel like facehugging spam should not be the best way to defend against strikes at the moment.
It shouldn't be. Though in 1.5 that doesn't really work at high level. Though that isn't to say 1.5 is an improvement. It's kind of a shit patch.

Swingblock should be nerfed, but it shouldn't go away. It's necessary to fight some people that are very good at timing slaps or mblocking. If you remove swingblock then everyone will be either face hugging/crouch spamming, or swinging from a mile away.
 

Hessu

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It shouldn't be. Though in 1.5 that doesn't really work at high level. Though that isn't to say 1.5 is an improvement. It's kind of a shit patch.

Swingblock should be nerfed, but it shouldn't go away. It's necessary to fight some people that are very good at timing slaps or mblocking. If you remove swingblock then everyone will be either face hugging/crouch spamming, or swinging from a mile away.
Why would you want sb to be nerfed
 

PuNk

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Good question. What is wrong with swingblocking?
 
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Why would you want sb to be nerfed
It's pretty easily abused, it's one of the reasons why combo spam was possible in many recent patches. All you have to do is learn to crouch for the very instant that you aren't blocking (starting a swing), and then swingblock the rest. Suddenly you cannot be mblocked or slapped at all.

It's also a very obscure mechanic that's quite difficult to teach to new players, and its functionality is retarded in open mode with flinch.

It's just a mandatory mechanic that arbitrarily raises the skill floor for new players. It's not like it is hard to swingblock.



Also, obligatory passive-aggressive EU duelists pop out whenever you mention anything regarding swingblock or PB.
 

k4far

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How DARE YOU insult god of invisible points in the sky and aggressively tapping block!! xd
 

Hessu

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It's pretty easily abused, it's one of the reasons why combo spam was possible in many recent patches. All you have to do is learn to crouch for the very instant that you aren't blocking (starting a swing), and then swingblock the rest. Suddenly you cannot be mblocked or slapped at all.

It's also a very obscure mechanic that's quite difficult to teach to new players, and its functionality is retarded in open mode with flinch.

It's just a mandatory mechanic that arbitrarily raises the skill floor for new players. It's not like it is hard to swingblock.



Also, obligatory passive-aggressive EU duelists pop out whenever you mention anything regarding swingblock or PB.
It's fine by me if someone can't be slapped or mblocked if they swingblock, there are ways to defeat good swingblockers. Its not like it makes you invincible. It's a good mechanic and i've yet to see a player who never gets mblocked or slapped
 
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>abuse sb
>combo spam

Pick one

PS: About this thread, i always found knock-down mechanics a bit anti-aesthetic, wathever, makes you duel somehow more focused despite i was a really fan of that beta build where slap CD was huge, but if you managed to knock down an enemy it was pretty much a secure kill unless an insane comeback happened
 
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PuNk

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You made it sound like a hell to teach new players but then you say it's not really hard to swingblock. I don't know who you tried to teach but everyone I taught how to properly tap and swingblock combos did so succesfully within the next two weeks. I don't think there's a problem with swingblocking, there's always a small gap where a person is vulnerable between tapping mouse1 and mouse2. And anyone who just constantly spams combos on a good opponent this patch will pretty much just feed them BP if they PB 2 or more hits.
 

noel

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It's pretty easily abused, it's one of the reasons why combo spam was possible in many recent patches. All you have to do is learn to crouch for the very instant that you aren't blocking (starting a swing), and then swingblock the rest. Suddenly you cannot be mblocked or slapped at all.

It's also a very obscure mechanic that's quite difficult to teach to new players, and its functionality is retarded in open mode with flinch.

It's just a mandatory mechanic that arbitrarily raises the skill floor for new players. It's not like it is hard to swingblock.



Also, obligatory passive-aggressive EU duelists pop out whenever you mention anything regarding swingblock or PB.
Swingblock is hard, the concept is easy, sure, but have you ever dueled someone who can swingblock 4 hit combos perfectly?

Probably not, since there's always a window where you can get slapped/mblocked

inb4 'i can swingblock 4 hits perfectly'
 
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I have no idea how swingblocking is abused and I've been a frequent player on duel servers for a year now. If you cant beat someone who's swingblocking you should probably stop relying on slaps and mblocks to win duels.
Comboing is pretty pointless in 1.5, because the patch is utter shit, and you can lose from a single interrupt. Countering is also pretty inconsistent now. So you won't see it. However in the last number of patches, combo-countering to parry the opponent and land one more hit than they could on you, was a very strong meta in NA. It was effectively trading. It was beatable, yes, but traditionally the counter to counter-spam was to slap the startup swing using good timing. However, if they know how to swingblock their combos AND crouch their startups, they are immune to slaps and mblocks, making them much harder to defeat than they should be.

Swingblock is hard, the concept is easy, sure, but have you ever dueled someone who can swingblock 4 hit combos perfectly?

Probably not, since there's always a window where you can get slapped/mblocked

inb4 'i can swingblock 4 hits perfectly'
Swingblock is not hard, and I have dueled many people who have swingblocked entire combos. I've even dueled people who could swingblock 4 hit cyan combos, and those are very annoying to fight against.

You made it sound like a hell to teach new players but then you say it's not really hard to swingblock. I don't know who you tried to teach but everyone I taught how to properly tap and swingblock combos did so succesfully within the next two weeks. I don't think there's a problem with swingblocking, there's always a small gap where a person is vulnerable between tapping mouse1 and mouse2. And anyone who just constantly spams combos on a good opponent this patch will pretty much just feed them BP if they PB 2 or more hits.
It isn't hard to swingblock. It is hard to explain to new players how important swingblock is, and the concept of it. There is no vulnerability between tapping mouse 1 and mouse 2 if they crouch for the nanosecond that they are using mouse 1 and mouse 2. There are people who are literally immune to slaps in this game, making the mechanic entirely useless.

It's fine by me if someone can't be slapped or mblocked if they swingblock, there are ways to defeat good swingblockers. Its not like it makes you invincible. It's a good mechanic and i've yet to see a player who never gets mblocked or slapped
You say it's fine, but then you say you've never fought one. That's hilarious.
 

noel

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Comboing is pretty pointless in 1.5, because the patch is utter shit, and you can lose from a single interrupt. Countering is also pretty inconsistent now. So you won't see it. However in the last number of patches, combo-countering to parry the opponent and land one more hit than they could on you, was a very strong meta in NA. It was effectively trading. It was beatable, yes, but traditionally the counter to counter-spam was to slap the startup swing using good timing. However, if they know how to swingblock their combos AND crouch their startups, they are immune to slaps and mblocks, making them much harder to defeat than they should be.



Swingblock is not hard, and I have dueled many people who have swingblocked entire combos. I've even dueled people who could swingblock 4 hit cyan combos, and those are very annoying to fight against.



It isn't hard to swingblock. It is hard to explain to new players how important swingblock is, and the concept of it. There is no vulnerability between tapping mouse 1 and mouse 2 if they crouch for the nanosecond that they are using mouse 1 and mouse 2. There are people who are literally immune to slaps in this game, making the mechanic entirely useless.



You say it's fine, but then you say you've never fought one. That's hilarious.
sounds like you need to get better at slapping
 

Hessu

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Comboing is pretty pointless in 1.5, because the patch is utter shit, and you can lose from a single interrupt. Countering is also pretty inconsistent now. So you won't see it. However in the last number of patches, combo-countering to parry the opponent and land one more hit than they could on you, was a very strong meta in NA. It was effectively trading. It was beatable, yes, but traditionally the counter to counter-spam was to slap the startup swing using good timing. However, if they know how to swingblock their combos AND crouch their startups, they are immune to slaps and mblocks, making them much harder to defeat than they should be.



Swingblock is not hard, and I have dueled many people who have swingblocked entire combos. I've even dueled people who could swingblock 4 hit cyan combos, and those are very annoying to fight against.



It isn't hard to swingblock. It is hard to explain to new players how important swingblock is, and the concept of it. There is no vulnerability between tapping mouse 1 and mouse 2 if they crouch for the nanosecond that they are using mouse 1 and mouse 2. There are people who are literally immune to slaps in this game, making the mechanic entirely useless.



You say it's fine, but then you say you've never fought one. That's hilarious.
Well there is no one who can sb 100% plus you're exaggerating, you wont lose from 1 interrupt lol
 
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