Logical Sabering?

[Duckshark]

Hi, I'm new here. I've been playing for a couple of weeks, but before that I wised up and read a bunch of guides on literally everything in this game. But I feel like dueling is still a problem, because I found out that running out of BP is countered by wildly spamming combos, and swingblocking feels unrealistic.

What if combos were limited to having the first hit not be PB'd? It doesn't make sense for a real sword fighter to have a strike blocked and then be able to swing another few times at a blocking person quickly, it'd make more sense if the individual hits were more precise and combos were follow-ups to strikes. The only real fighting where one can just whale on somebody else is boxing, because blocking a punch doesn't affect the aggressor.

Also, slapping in a duel only makes sense if the opponent isn't swinging. Who would consider a barehanded attack useful against an enemy swinging an indestructible laser sword? Slaps should only connect if the opponent is readying or following through a strike, or jumping/crouching.

Swingblocking seems like a sort of exploit, and really unrealistic. If you parry, then ok. But who blocks a slap by swinging a sword while blocking during the attack? By making slaps more opportunistic, it'd make sense for them to have longer cooldown, and swingblocking would be disregarded for pure offense when swinging, and the variety of PBs, MBs, and parries on defense.

Note that I am a total noob, but these solutions seem logical, not difficult to implement (comparatively), and it would make dueling less combo-based and more about precise strikes, because a single lightsaber strike is basically game over for the recipient.

If there are pros out there, and you see something I missed, feel free. Please don't write "dumb lol bye," though. I want to understand the dueling system, and I really like this mod.

 

[Hessu]

Are you illiterate?



Are you also illiterate?

Just because you can't slap or mblock someone doesnt mean no one else can

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Just because you can't slap or mblock someone doesnt mean no one else can

You very clearly are illiterate. Read my posts again.

 

[GASHTI]

You very clearly are illiterate. Read my posts again.

ok

Are you illiterate?

Yes, everyone arguing with you is illiterate.There's always a small gap which is impossible to swingblock, I dont know what kind of duelists there are in the NA but here in the EU we pblock when someone is doing 4 hit combos.

However, if they know how to swingblock their combos AND crouch their startups, they are immune to slaps and mblocks, making them much harder to defeat than they should be.

Crouching is pretty cheap, but if someone is abusing it that hard you can do crouch + use + slap which will slap a crouching player. If thats too much work I'd suggest pblocking, using more footwork in your style, etc.

Comboing is pretty pointless in 1.5, because the patch is utter shit, and you can lose from a single interrupt. Countering is also pretty inconsistent now. So you won't see it. However in the last number of patches, combo-countering to parry the opponent and land one more hit than they could on you, was a very strong meta in NA. It was effectively trading. It was beatable, yes, but traditionally the counter to counter-spam was to slap the startup swing using good timing. However, if they know how to swingblock their combos AND crouch their startups, they are immune to slaps and mblocks, making them much harder to defeat than they should be.

I thought we were talking about this patch. In the last quote you're arguing about how op swingblocking combos is and now you're backing down from that saying its not a thing in this patch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've essentially said "swingblocking combos is op and in this patch its not viable so this patch is shit". Parrying was also a part of the EU meta as ACM was very important last patch and there were duelists who's style was yaw+swingblock+4 hit combo until the enemy is dead, and even the ones who were really good at it werent

much harder to defeat than they should be.

as long as you learned the patterns in their swings, used footwork and slapped correctly.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

You're the one who's illiterate. There's always a small gap which is impossible to swingblock, I dont know what kind of duelists there are in the NA but here in the EU we pblock when someone is doing 4 hit combos.

Do I actually need to explain that crouching prevents that small gap from being an issue? I literally never said that you could, on its own, swingblock 100% of everything.

However, you could just make a script that swingblocks everything but 1 millisecond of startup time. Good fucking luck slapping that.

Crouching is pretty cheap, but if someone is abusing it that hard you can do crouch + use + slap which will slap a crouching player. If thats too much work I'd suggest pblocking, using more footwork in your style, etc.

Gee whillickers, I complain that Swingblock is an overused mandatory mechanic that just rewards mindless muscle memory, and you go "JUST PBLOCK IT"

Is this what 1.5 players look like?

I thought we were talking about this patch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've essentially said "swingblocking combos is op and in this patch its not viable so this patch is shit". Parrying was also a part of the EU meta as ACM was very important last patch and there were duelists who's style was yaw+swingblock+4 hit combo until the enemy is dead, and even the ones who were really good at it werent "much harder to defeat than they should be" as long as you learned the patterns in their swings, used footwork and slapped correctly.

I didn't say they were OP. I said it was abused and annoying. I recognize that EU duelists in this thread appear to be quite illiterate and incapable of understanding simple context, but for the love of god, stop strawmanning me. Also, how the fuck do you slap someone correctly if they are crouching their startups? The patch is shit, I don't care about 1.5. I don't claim to be good at 1.5, because I haven't focused on PBing since 1.3/1.4. I don't like 1.5, and I don't play 1.5. However, swingblock is STILL an over-bearing and vague mechanic with no thought. Either stick to that topic, or take your hilarious ego somewhere else.

New players complain about arbitrary mechanics and EU elitists universally go 'NOU'. Fuck right off.

 

[Stassin]

I'm going to say it here: fight each other in-game. Arguing and name calling here when to begin with, people are convinced that a specific scenario leads to different results, is a waste of time. To everyone disagreeing with each other here, instead of saying other people are bad or idiots, make the effort to verify the facts in-game with those people.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

I'm going to say it here: fight each other in-game. Arguing and name calling here when people are convinced A or B scenarios lead to different results to begin with, is a waste of time. To everyone disagreeing with each other here, instead of saying other people are bad or idiots, make the effort to verify the facts in-game with those people.

It has absolutely nothing to do with winning or losing in-game. I'm arguing about a mechanic being shit in inception. I'm sure everyone here can swingblock fine. Whether we can use it is not in question. That's a bad argument.

Besides, I don't like 1.5, I don't ego duel in MB2 anymore due to 1.5. I certainly don't claim to be good in 1.5, either. I kill myself in 1.5 more than I kill my enemy because I try to do things that I could do in previous patches, and I refuse to dedicate the time to unlearning those habits in this horrendous patch. I'm certain many of the people here could probably beat me. I don't fucking care. The argument here is about swingblock which TRANSCENDS PATCHES, not about who has the biggest dueling cock.

 

[GASHTI]

It isn't hard to swingblock. It is hard to explain to new players how important swingblock is, and the concept of it. There is no vulnerability between tapping mouse 1 and mouse 2 if they crouch for the nanosecond that they are using mouse 1 and mouse 2. There are people who are literally immune to slaps in this game, making the mechanic entirely useless.

Do I actually need to explain that crouching prevents that small gap from being an issue? I literally never said that you could, on its own, swingblock 100% of everything.

Which one is it cunt

However, you could just make a script that swingblock everything but 1 millisecond of startup time. Good fucking luck slapping that.

Yeah scripts and hacks are the issue here, you're totally right, friend

Gee whillickers, I complain that Swingblock is an overused mandatory mechanic that just rewards mindless muscle memory, and you go "JUST PBLOCK IT"

Is this what 1.5 players look like?

Yeah swingblocking is a basic mechanic that's essential to learn how to play, if you cant deal with said basic skill you can employ another skill called pblocking to cancel its effects out. I dont know what you're on about.

I didn't say they were OP. I said it was abused and annoying.

Are you sure about that

Swingblock should be nerfed

If you had said swingblocking should be changed instead of nerfed it would have sounded a lot better and you would have saved yourself a lot of time replying to comments.

New players complain about arbitrary mechanics and EU elitists universally go 'NOU'. Fuck right off.

New players shouldnt be complaining. Learn the game then complain. This guy more so gave his vision of the game which is fine by me.

 

[Fear]

Pass me Popcorn will ya?

 

[Hessu]

You very clearly are illiterate. Read my posts again.

Read my posts again. People can't sb 100% even if they'd crouch you can still mblock them if you get the gap

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Which one is it cunt

Those quotes of mine literally infer the same exact thing. In both quotes I stated that crouching the startups and swingblocking the rest makes you immune to slap, making the slapping mechanic useless. Stop being illiterate.

Yeah scripts and hacks are the issue here, you're totally right, friend

Are you for real?

Yeah swingblocking is a basic mechanic that's essential to learn how to play, if you cant deal with said basic skill you can employ another skill called pblocking to cancel its effects out. I dont know what you're on about.

And you adorable little genius, I also said that I don't like how mandatory swingblocking is to learn how to play. I don't like how prevalent it is in everything, and how mindless it is to employ. There is 0 downside to it.

Are you sure about that

Yes. I am.

View attachment 3200

If you had said swingblocking should be changed instead of nerfed it would have sounded a lot better and you would have saved yourself a lot of time replying to comments.

So you went to the Urban Dictionary to try and prove me wrong? Oh wait, you're not even proving me wrong in any of these arguments, you're literally just trying to discredit me and strawman me to death because you're really bad at debating and understanding context.

Okay, friendomundo, yes. I want swingblock to be nerfed, do you know why? Because there is no downside to it. That doesn't necessarily mean it is overpowered. It's just overtuned, or overbearing. Swingblock is obviously very beatable, even if they swingblock everything.

New players shouldnt be complaining. Learn the game then complain. This guy more so gave his vision of the game which is fine by me.

So new players have 0 right to complain about how arbitrary mechanics are, or how difficult something is to even get into? Are you even a real human being? Like, I'm trying to grasp your logic, and all I get is elitist bullshit.

 

[Hessu]

And i dont think crouching prevents mblocking boy

 

[Fear]

Not enough. Next essay please we need more 'Factual' Evidence. Or else this jury will never reach a conclusive decision!

 

[Hessu]

Those quotes of mine literally infer the same exact thing. In both quotes I stated that crouching the startups and swingblocking the rest makes you immune to slap, making the slapping mechanic useless. Stop being illiterate.



Are you for real?



And you adorable little genius, I also said that I don't like how mandatory swingblocking is to learn how to play. I don't like how prevalent it is in everything, and how mindless it is to employ. There is 0 downside to it.



Yes. I am.



So you went to the Urban Dictionary to try and prove me wrong? Oh wait, you're not even proving me wrong in any of these arguments, you're literally just trying to discredit me and strawman me to death because you're really bad at debating and understanding context.

Okay, friendomundo, yes. I want swingblock to be nerfed, do you know why? Because there is no downside to it. That doesn't necessarily mean it is overpowered. It's just overtuned, or overbearing. Swingblock is obviously very beatable, even if they swingblock everything.



So new players have 0 right to complain about how arbitrary mechanics are, or how difficult something is to even get into? Are you even a real human being? Like, I'm trying to grasp your logic, and all I get is elitist bullshit.

Why should swingblock have a downside

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Why should swingblock have a downside

Yes, why should any mechanic have a downside. Infact, not-swingblocking should also not have a downside. You should also be invulnerable to slap and mblock while not swingblocking.

Amazing logic.

Look Hessu, I don't like swingblock because it's mandatory. The only remote counter to swingblocking is shadow-swinging constantly, and that isn't a particularly viable method of countering it, because they can do the same thing, and just swingblock when you get into slapping range. I want swingblock to require some thought, and not just be a thing that you mindlessly do because you can and there is no reason not to. It's an arbitrary **requirement** for sabering, and it's unintuitive. It would be far better if there was some sort of price to pay for the safety net of swingblock. So that you actually have to take risks, and that swingblock is more visible to new players.

 

[GASHTI]

And you adorable little genius, I also said that I don't like how mandatory swingblocking is to learn how to play. I don't like how prevalent it is in everything, and how mindless it is to employ. There is 0 downside to it.

There's no downside to pblocking, should we nerf it aswell?

So you went to the Urban Dictionary to try and prove me wrong? Oh wait, you're not even proving me wrong in any of these arguments, you're literally just trying to discredit me and strawman me to death because you're really bad at debating and understanding context.

I dont have to prove you wrong every post you make contradicts the last. Sorry for being bad at debating, I'm not a real debator
also I dont think anyone can read your mind and you're doing a pretty bad job at putting it into words, calling it "context" wont help the situation.

Are you for real?

What's that supposed to mean, you said scripts are an issue. I said scripts arent an issue. Is you saying "Are you for real" supposed to destroy any debate?

Those quotes of mine literally infer the same exact thing. In both quotes I stated that crouching the startups and swingblocking the rest makes you immune to slap, making the slapping mechanic useless. Stop being illiterate.

You can slap crouching opponents with crouch + use + slap. I barely use it because crouching is barely used. I'm not a pro debator like you, but in one quote you say you can swingblock 100% and in the other you say you can

There is no vulnerability between tapping mouse 1 and mouse 2

I literally never said that you could, on its own, swingblock 100% of everything.

Case and point

So new players have 0 right to complain about how arbitrary mechanics are, or how difficult something is to even get into? Are you even a real human being? Like, I'm trying to grasp your logic, and all I get is elitist bullshit.

I've never played baseball, its not a common sport in the EU. If I were to play baseball once and then critique the game without having any experience of playing other than the one time I think my opinion would be very irrelevant. That is why when a new player criticizes the MB2 dueling system they are often not taken seriously.

 

[GASHTI]

Pass me Popcorn will ya?

anything for a fellow seven deadly sins fan

 

[[tR]Motoko]

 

[Fear]

anything for a fellow seven deadly sins fan

Ayyyyy

 

[Fear]

I honestly just came here to watch dooku complain about the system more tbh. But always good to see a fellow sins fan.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

There's no downside to pblocking, should we nerf it aswell?

There is a downside to PBing. You aren't attacking while doing it. You are sacrificing your offense for survivability. Also, right now, PB is too strong and being nerfed, so that's really a stupid argument to bring up against me.

I dont have to prove you wrong every post you make contradicts the last. Sorry for being bad at debating, I'm not a real debator
also I dont think anyone can read your mind and you're doing a pretty bad job at putting it into words, calling it "context" wont help the situation.

Okay, saying I'm bad at putting my thoughts into words, I can deal with that. Sure, fine, I'll try harder. Also, I would love to see you continue to try and show me where I've contradicted myself.

What's that supposed to mean, you said scripts are an issue. I said scripts arent an issue. Is you saying "Are you for real" supposed to destroy any debate?

I never said they were an issue. Stop strawmanning me. I said you COULD potentially do that. I asked if you were for real because I cannot possibly imagine that you would either purposefully twist my words into that, or fucking fail to read them properly in the first place.

They really dont. I'm not a pro debator like you, but in one quote you say you can swingblock 100% and in the other you say you can

WHERE DID I EVER SAY THAT YOU CAN SWINGBLOCK 100% OF EVERYTHING!? Show me. Please.

I've never played baseball, its not a common sport in the EU. If I were to play baseball once and then critique the game without having any experience of playing other than the one time I think my opinion would be very irrelevant. That is why when a new player criticizes the MB2 dueling system they are often not taken seriously.

People do that all the time. The difference is you don't have a bunch of major-league players walking up to you and laughing at how bad you are as an argument. "Haha get good." isn't an argument. Yes, new players lack the expertise of skilled players, but guess what, they could also have very viable fucking feedback for how shit a game is to get into. If you played a fucking MMO for 5 minutes, and then stopped playing it, leaving the critique "I literally couldn't understand what I was doing at all", then a bunch of dickheads go "HAHA GET GOOD", that doesn't invalidate his fucking opinion.

I honestly just came here to watch dooku complain about the system more tbh.

Isn't that literally all you do in game? I've known you since 1.3, and every single patch you hated the system, then proceeded to make it painfully clear to everyone how much you hated it.