Jedi survive direct nades/rockets

[S o l d i e r]

Problem:
When holding block, the Jedi can reduce the damage from nades and rockets, but that damage reduction is so strong that they don't die when a nade or rocket detonates very near to them, like one metre away. Plus, they have the ultimate defense against nades and rockets in the form of Push, so after this blocking thing was added nades and rockets are very ineffective against them.

Solution:
Well placed nades and rockets against the Jedi should be rewarded just because how hard it is to land them while avoiding getting Pushed. I suggest to have a zone radius very near to the Jedi where the blocking of damage from nades and rockets won't work. This would also be realistic when a huge blast happens in their face.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Jedi is the only one life class with no armour to soak up the damage otherwise. Landing a rocket or a grenade on a Jedi is not hard, you just need to know your positioning and timing. After that it's very unlikely you'll ever fail to land them.

Grenades and rockets are generally noob traps, so I'm not entirely a fan of increasing their potency beyond being good crowd control.

 

[S o l d i e r]

Jedi is the only one life class with no armour to soak up the damage otherwise. Landing a rocket or a grenade on a Jedi is not hard, you just need to know your positioning and timing. After that it's very unlikely you'll ever fail to land them.

Grenades and rockets are generally noob traps, so I'm not entirely a fan of increasing their potency beyond being good crowd control.

If a Jedi has 100 HP and is blocking it's impossible for a grenade/rocket to kill them, although a grenade detonates in their legs. The only possible way would be landing a rocket directly into them. I played Jedi and a grenade detonated in my legs and I still had 9 HP. I didn't say it's hard to land a grenade/rocket on them, but even if you land a near-perfect nade/rocket you don't get rewarded for it as the Jedi soak up the damage. If you don't make grenades and rockets on the same level as everything else, you are missing on a lot of possible builds. I see this game has a lot of compromises made about the Jedi class, it's like everything is about them.

 

[SK5]

Im pretty sure a direct grenade or rocket will kill a jedi even if they are holding block

 

[S o l d i e r]

Im pretty sure a direct grenade or rocket will kill a jedi even if they are holding block

I would test that. I am telling what I saw, a grenade in my legs, like half a metre away from them, and I survived with a 1-digit number of HP.

 

[Jeob]

About testing the damage: I can confirm that jedi can survive nades while standing on it directly or right next to it, but I think it's also possible not to survive it even with 100 hp. I believe everything has variable damage (something like +/-2%). So I think both can happen, you stand on a nade with 100 hp+block, you can survive it with 7-11 hp, but you can also die to it. If someone confirmed variable damage, that would be great, I see so many people acting in game like, "I hit you once/twice/3 times (in the head) with proj/p3/ee-3 etc. and that deals 100/140/200 dmg, how are you not dead?" The answer to that most of the time is that they didn't hit you as much as they thought, and/or that they didn't hit you in the head when they think they did, but sometimes I think the answer comes down to variable damage, the same bodyshot dealt lower damage than it usually does so target survived. EDIT: other than that I have no idea where they pull the damage values from, sometimes I see ridicolous damage values in the chat which I'm sure are incorrect

Anyway I also think that the range of the frag nade is random too, sometimes it knocks down people who are really far from it.

About rockets I'm not sure, I would assume they die if you hit right under their foot even if they block. However I can recall a sith surviving a rocket that either hit right under his foot or was very close to it, but he also barely jumped right when he exploded so maybe that saved him, I have the demo of it somewhere, maybe I'll rewatch it.

About the problem: probably the dev team doesn't consider this a problem, I find it interesting that you (Soldier) make the topic about this now when I told you about it in this thread: Making grenadiers work
I guess you experienced it now frequently, or you realized it cause you're playing more jedi now, idk.

Grenades and rockets are generally noob traps, so I'm not entirely a fan of increasing their potency beyond being good crowd control.

I wouldn't call it increasing potency, just restoring what we had for years in previous versions. So a jedi can't continue the round after failing to avoid an easy frag nade. Jedi are all about foreseeing events anyway right? That's how they block and deflect blaster bolts. Now if a jedi can't foresee that a nade will fall on his shoes, he should definitely become one with the force.

Another comment. Funny thing is that this block tankery helps newbs more than regular guys, when a nade pops right next to them, the newb won't realize it and react to it, so he just blocks and survives, the one who notices it will try to run away from it but he has no time and since he's running he's gonna die for sure. Common experience in these 1.4 builds. Pro players can intentionally keep blocking of course or jump+block.

 

[Noob]

it all comes back to that pre flinch/jedi dmg reduction problem which probably will never be reverted

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

I wouldn't call it increasing potency, just restoring what we had for years in previous versions. So a jedi can't continue the round after failing to avoid an easy frag nade.

We could roll back to a previous version where Jedi survive rockets and grenades by holding block+crouch while losing only 10-20HP. There have been like a handful of instances where Jedi have not had damage reduction against explosives. Two of those cases were Day 0 bugs promptly fixed within a month.

If someone with full HP dies from a grenade, it's not crowd control at that point is it? I'd even argue that if a Jedi survives with 5-11 HP, he's as good as dead anyway. He's not going to slash anyone good to death, he's not going to survive any sensible mando, he will not survive an encounter with a poison dart, a blob, a secondary grenade, pushing a grenade/rocket/player and so on...

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

And once upon a time, there was a shining knight named Achilles who suggested higher damages and out-of-combat healing. He was shunned for his beauty.

 

[NERO]

Jedi is the only one life class with no armour to soak up the damage otherwise. Landing a rocket or a grenade on a Jedi is not hard, you just need to know your positioning and timing. After that it's very unlikely you'll ever fail to land them.

Grenades and rockets are generally noob traps, so I'm not entirely a fan of increasing their potency beyond being good crowd control.

Pushing a grenade or a rocket is not hard

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Pushing a grenade or a rocket is not hard

Pushing a good one is borderline impossible.

 

[Noob]

higher damages and out-of-combat healing. He was shunned for his beauty.

That's because it's a stupid idea. healing promotes slowing gameplay down and there wouldnt be a need for more dmg output if reduction is lowered

 

[NERO]

Pushing a good one is borderline impossible.

Define a good grenade or a rocket.
If you can't push a grenade or a rocket it's probably because you didn't know it's coming.
That's when you deserve to get btfu literally. And jedi should die to it.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

That's because it's a stupid idea. healing promotes slowing gameplay down and there wouldnt be a need for more dmg output if reduction is lowered

I hate it when the healing in games like CoD, Quake, and countless other games slow the games down.

When in reality the thing that slows down MB2 is having only 1 life, no healing, and winning is meaningless.

 

[k4far]

I had a situation I have failed with push and I landed right on the Mando he hit me from hugging distance to my surprise I was left with 26 hp.
Mando died, lmao (it was on Kamino a few days ago.)

I hate it when the healing in games like CoD, Quake, and countless other games slow the games down.

When in reality the thing that slows down MB2 is having only 1 life, no healing, and winning is meaningless.

Winning is meaningless because objectiv3 is worth less than going for kills. You will go get some free kills and ignore the objective most of the time. Doing objectives is unrewarding noone wants "points" if they can just improve their ratios. Someone already proposed rewarding with score for kills and getting rid of K/D table. How would that affect all the ego people?

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Winning is meaningless because objectiv3 is worth less than going for kills. You will go get some free kills and ignore the objective most of the time. Doing objectives is unrewarding noone wants "points" if they can just improve their ratios. Someone already proposed rewarding with score for kills and getting rid of K/D table. How would that affect all the ego people?

That really wouldn't change anything, 'cept make the game more boring. What you need is the ability for one player to carry a team of morons to victory against a stack. That would make winning more worth while, than the existing problem of numbers and classes > skill.

 

[LanceOfLonginus]

I tested this earlier, no jedi or sith can survive a direct nade or rocket.

 

[NERO]

Winning is meaningless because objectiv3 is worth less than going for kills. You will go get some free kills and ignore the objective most of the time. Doing objectives is unrewarding noone wants "points" if they can just improve their ratios.

Something much better than a K/D ratio or a score is shoving into someone's face they completely failed at defending their objective and laughing at them when they call you an objwhore.
Let's cultivate this kind of culture.

I think most decent level players find satisfaction in breaking bottleneck situations and succesful tactical maneuvers.

I tested this earlier, no jedi or sith can survive a direct nade or rocket.

Perhaps not direct ones, but they survive ridiculously well against ones that get very close to direct.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

I remember in a build, long ago, I took a rocket to the head and survived. Now that was insane dmg reduction. B16 v2?

Alas, those days are gone. Soldiers can't survive 5 swings when they're knocked down, instant primaries are gone and jedi have no heal and sith have no instant grip.

My idea? Bring it all back. t(-_-)t

But if you lack the will, the fortitude, that strength of character to endure....why not make...oh I don't know, losing the round an execution for all the losers?


That's how it once was. Due to some brilliant forum user abbreviated CTC suggesting it in the 1st place. And it worked. Until, some nutty devs decided to be 'effin carebears. Remember that term? Carebears?

Bringing it back, yo.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Define a good grenade or a rocket.
If you can't push a grenade or a rocket it's probably because you didn't know it's coming.
That's when you deserve to get btfu literally. And jedi should die to it.

You are in a cooldown that prevents you from pushing. (Lightning, Push, swing, knockdown, slap)
You are in a position that prevents you from pushing. (Line of sight blocked by other players, preferably opposing team's saberists)
Grenade arrives into the room from an angle where you do not have sufficient time to push it out of the room.
Rocket arrives into the room from an angle where you do not have sufficient time to push it out of the room.

As a general rule of thumb, these should be the only times a good grenadier/rocketeer pouncesl. Easiest of these to achieve are the last two. If these rules are ignored when a Jedi is present, you might as well join the enemy team since you're dealing more damage to your own.

Grenades and rockets are there to help you create space and chaos, they are not primarily for killing despite their high damage. If you are given the option to displace 3 enemies or to kill 1 enemy, the option should be very evident. A displaced enemy is a dead enemy.