Gas Stassin: A Modest Proposal
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I know devs basically can't "ignore" specific peoples feedback but holy shit, my forum experience got 10x better after I ignored achilles
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today is a good day
(Having experienced some versions of knockback in the beta, I'm fairly annoyed in 1.5 when I shoot a saberist several times at close range and at the end of it all he's still sitting there, right in my face, already reset and ready to swing. Or push.)
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So I would personally argue that 1.5 is an improvement, but the collision/timing bugs, as well as the weird meta shift in dueling/open (And bugs in general), have effectively made me think that 1.4.9 is better just on the grounds of stability and the fact that I'm already used to it.
Well Red is superior for every situation, and you can always switch. I always just carry around blue/red or yellow/red this patch because red is so very strong to pull out against a gunner. You face hug a hero while they desperately try to kill you, swap to red, and counter swing a near-instant unflinchable attack that one shots them.
One source of annoyance, however, is that I've gotten too used to trying to swingblock against gunners, so I get interrupted a lot in situations where I'd much rather eat the HP loss than abort a swing.
Mmm, indeed. Swingblock for quite some time since the introduction of flinch has become a bit of a crutch and habit for many people. Doesn't bother me in open, but in duels I tend to swingblock a lot unnecessarily, just because I'm so used to people doing 4 hit swingblock counter-combos for trades in the previous patch.
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I specifically made it the goal to never block/ignore/mute people or alias in-game so that I would hear even the opinions of people that absolutely hate me / hate what I did. I kind of stopped doing it 6 months ago after doing it for 10 years. I would love to listen to everyone, and do everything they ever wanted. Realistically, however, that just isn't possible and some people don't see it or why. We as developers are often too involved in the community, and as a result more developers than I can count on one hand have left the community as a result of treatment. All of which I know for a fact listen to feedback and have changed many of their features, designs, etc in response to things from the community. We care too much about what everyone thinks.
Not everyone is a bad apple, but those that are, for the love of god please just recognize what you are doing. You are ruining things for the rest of the community, you make updates take longer to come out (demotivated devs), and have caused developers to quit outright which lessens our manpower/resources. Do you really want that? Please for the love of god help us make the game by giving us feedback in open betas, rather than attending and not leaving feedback so that you can bitch at us later. That isn't helpful to anyone. Realize what you are doing and knock it off.
DaloLorn
Movie Battles II Team Retired
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Fair enough.
Mmmm, very few heroes let me facehug that effectively - it usually costs a lot of FP to maintain range if they're evading properly.
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Yes, being solely responsible for something a lot of people love/enjoy is a lot of pressure. Understandable. However some of the arrogance I have seen from developers as to **why** they discount opinions is rather unforgivable in my eyes.
I'm not going to motivate shit work. I'm not going to reward something as broken as 1.5 with "GOOD JERB" especially when the dev responsible so viciously attacks people who dislike it. What about my motivation to keep playing it? To play test something that I've already explained I despise, that I know many people that I enjoy playing the game with will (and do) despise. I've seen so many veterans over the last few days come on, go 'What is this', then leave to not be seen again.
I would never suggest pandering to every single person, you cannot please everyone, however the fact that MB2 devs are so light footed about some things, and the most heavy handed tyrants on others, frustrates me, and divides the community. For example:
Take the projectile increase thread, the purpose of the poll was clearly to see how the community reacts to the 15% increase. Now I was initially annoyed that we didn't start with 30%, because that is what I tested to be the best for quite some time without actually breaking the game. So we half ass that, instead of allowing people to experience the full increase (Which to my knowledge no one even playtested the full increase in tests, and it just sort of sat at 15% for some reason). Then we get a poll by Stassin, in which we find that the community likes the increase, though as anything publicly handled you get a lot of needless compromise and paranoia. However what is inexcusable to me is that Stassin effectively tells everyone that their opinions are irrelevant, and he'll do whatever based upon a few opinions.
There is a severe factor of elitism in the MB2 dev circle. You've done it. Defiant has done it. Stassin as done it, and many other devs in MB2's lifespan that I did not have the pleasure of meeting. Where you will tell people that they have no idea what they are doing or talking about with regards to balance, or gameplay, or any other subject.
You are a map maker. You are a very good map maker. I very much appreciate your contributions to the mod and I hope you will provide more. But your opinion on gameplay is no more educated than mine, or anyone elses.
Stassin and Defiant are coders, not gods. Yet they very clearly act like gods, claiming that lesser opinions mean nothing to them. Stassin literally going forth and stating that NA players have 0 sway on balance because apparently we all suck, and when he is encountered with EU players that also have a negative opinion of his work, he claims they suck as well. Defiant who has stated in discord that the dev team will ignore the best players in the game. How is the community supposed to react to that? How pissed off do you think that makes me when I see that constantly?
Now I know how much you hate my '1v1 me' arguments, despite the fact that proving ego is not my intention at all. However that is the only way I have the ability to demonstrate or prove something in-game. I have seen you Mace state outlandish things in the past, such as blobs are pushable on reaction. So I offer to take you, or anyone in game, to demonstrate that to me. To prove me wrong, or to be proven wrong. Is that me trying to ego? No, that is me trying to achieve progress on a point. Instead of taking me up on an offer to learn who is right and move on with our lives, you always just shut me out, or even go as far as to kick me from the discord. All because I want to test it in-game, calling it a '1v1 argument'.
I'm certainly not perfect, but do not put all of this shit on me. Do not put all the blame on the community. You gentlemen have a responsibility to this mod by taking up the mantle of developer. I recognize that it is a lot of pressure, but you chose to receive that pressure to work on something that you love, I assume, as much as everyone else here. But remember that everyone else here loves the mod, not just you.
By the way, I assume that last sentence about the feedback was a jab at me. I spent over an hour and a half in discord private chat with Sev and Stassin talking about everything and listing my feedback/concerns. I didn't think a feedback thread was necessary, especially since I had shown up late and was being plagued by the bug from last patch. That being said, none of my feedback or concerns were taken into account. They were summarily ignored.
Who was it that one time in a test who said: "Beta testers are just supposed to report bugs and shut up."
If they're evading that much, then they're going to be pretty easy to pull/push. The best gunners tend to have a pattern when evading that heavily, and it gets readable. Basically if you make them afraid to dodge, you get a free kill with red.
Smee
Banned
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All I see is honest feedback. You can't act like gods then play the victim card when feedback is "wrongthink". Being told your ideas for mb2 are stupid and are making the game worse isn't "toxic" or whatever buzzwords you feel like throwing in. Honest feedback is far better than pats on the back for "doing it for free", no matter the quality of the contribution.
Chaos the Chaotic
Nerd
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Everyone seems to have their own version of the truth here. Or is reality the better word?
It's almost like this is all subjective to the poster's preferences, tastes & opinions.
Everyone's right, everyone's wrong. Such is the nature....of man!
^ Deep philosophical moment there.
It's good to see disagreements & conflicts. This mod dies & stagnates once people start saying it's all good. Then the drift begins. That current pulling you further and further away from the shoreline, until too late, it's a shark party and you're the unwitting center of attention. Sharks have sharp smiles, remember that.
They're also chewers. I also want to say they're the jocks and you're the nerd in the water. Decisions, decisions.
Development is at the whim of those that actually work on it. Good or bad, that's the system. It's dragged this mod this far. T_T
No matter how well or ill-reasoned your arguments, ultimately, you cannot force people/devs(are devs people???) to do anything they don't really want to.
Some will politely listen, pretend to anyway, but most have their own ideas, and those ideas hold value than that which comes from others.
The trick is...to trick them into thinking it's their idea. Learn how to set them up to reach the conclusion you desire.
If not, then there is only one other route you can possible take. A more honest path.
The question is, do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as is needed?
True change comes from within. If you seek to redefine, to improve, then you must become one of them.
A coder.
CTC,
Making Mb2 Great Again.
Or is reality the better word?It's almost like this is all subjective to the poster's preferences, tastes & opinions.
Everyone's right, everyone's wrong. Such is the nature....of man!
^ Deep philosophical moment there.
It's good to see disagreements & conflicts. This mod dies & stagnates once people start saying it's all good. Then the drift begins. That current pulling you further and further away from the shoreline, until too late, it's a shark party and you're the unwitting center of attention. Sharks have sharp smiles, remember that.
They're also chewers. I also want to say they're the jocks and you're the nerd in the water. Decisions, decisions.
Development is at the whim of those that actually work on it. Good or bad, that's the system. It's dragged this mod this far. T_T
No matter how well or ill-reasoned your arguments, ultimately, you cannot force people/devs(are devs people???) to do anything they don't really want to.
Some will politely listen, pretend to anyway, but most have their own ideas, and those ideas hold value than that which comes from others.
The trick is...to trick them into thinking it's their idea. Learn how to set them up to reach the conclusion you desire.
If not, then there is only one other route you can possible take. A more honest path.
The question is, do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as is needed?
True change comes from within. If you seek to redefine, to improve, then you must become one of them.
A coder.
CTC,
Making Mb2 Great Again.
![[tR]Motoko](/data/avatars/m/3/3527.jpg?1500319847){kind=avatar}
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OPEN SOURCE WHEN???
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paradine's credit card number when
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I feel like this thread will be the end of MB2
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did you hear they removed payments from battlefront 2 it's still utter shit but without payments
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So...we're not going to make a Gas Station beside our old gay bar?
This thread had so much potential.
This thread had so much potential.
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what are you doing, sir?
A summary of this thread
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Way to twist words. I don't give any more weight to an opinion just because it comes from a "good" player, I don't give any more weight to a an opinion because it comes from someone who's popular, or loud, or shit stirring and so on. All opinions are equal, all view points are valid. How pissed off is it supposed to make you? I cant speak for you of course, but I would expect that a reasonable person doesn't anticipate getting influence with a development team merely because they are good. I don't care how shit a person is at playing the game, I care about the quality of their ideas. Radical gameplay changes are less likely to be taken on because of the amount of work involved and an internal desire to try and settle our core gameplay down. We don't do gameplay design by democracy. We might need to do controversial things for the long term health of the mod, but I don't think anyone is under any illusion that we are unable to make mistakes.
I see mostly honest feedback, and obviously we've heard it. We wouldn't be here interacting and talking about it if we hadn't. But if you think threatening developers because they havnt done what you would personally like, or because they don't instantly see your genius suggestions for what they are or because you gave them cause to use any moderator powers against you is anything but toxic then frankly you need to go away and evaluate your priorities in life. Stassin shouldn't have to hear his name in association with genocide. Mace shouldn't be threatened because he did a lot of hard work on DOTFV2 which omitted a catwalk, and I shouldn't have to be getting direct messages from community members threatening to burn my house down and rape my dog. There are a hundred more examples I could list. Developers have quit through the years and more recently from the few that think that they need to act this way. I know it is a tiny tiny fraction of the player base that act this way and I don't let it bother me, not everyone has grown as thick a skin as I have. Does this make us some sort of martyr? No of course not. But can you blame us as human beings for not feeling respected for the time we volunteer because from time to time we might make a mistake, or we might do something that isn't popular, or we might have to wrap your knuckles if you cross the line? Respect is earnt from both sides. Personally I feel as though everyone who comes and talks to me genuinely about something be it gameplay related, community related or just an idea gets heard out and listened to and an honest response. I would like to think all the other developers have a similar policy. Almost everyone I deal with like this, even if we don't agree respects the honesty and being listened to, but there are people who think that the respect only starts when people are bent to their way of thinking. I've given people a lot of second chances based on nothing but their word that they'll stay on the right side of that respectful relationship, sure I've made some mistakes along the way, but I don't think that there's anyone out there who could say I've dealt with them entirely unfairly in the long run. It's difficult for me to put you in the position that we sometimes find ourselves in.
We make mistakes and I feel that you have every right to criticize us when we do. We'll do things that you don't agree with and again, I feel that you have the right to tell us that, but it needs to be communicated in the right way. Some people need to learn to walk away when a position we've taken has been explained to them, if we're wrong then sooner or later we will realise our mistake and correct it. At the end of the day we're people just like you, and I cant blame Mace for getting annoyed having to explain why the catwalk disappeared to the same people every week for six months, and I cant blame stassin for wanting to dismiss people because they are saying they want to gas him. I don't think any of you could reasonably put your hand on your heart and say you'd be totally ok under those circumstances either - especially if you had given up your free time to do something for the purposes of giving other people enjoyment. "Thank you for trying, but I think you've made a mistake because..." is a lot better than "Why did you do x? x Sucks." "You've killed the game." "You deserve to die for doing x." and getting that time after time.
You should be able to expect respect from us, and we should be able to expect respect from you. In most cases that happens, clearly in some cases it doesn't, and the places where it doesn't is toxic, on both sides.
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