Gameplay Direction Post 1.4.3

Discussion in 'Developer Diaries' started by Hexodious, Nov 14, 2016.

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  1. Quinto

    Quinto

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    Sense

    • Rank 1: Activation Cost: 15FP, Tick Cost: 5FP, 20FP grants you 2s of Sense (equal to the current implementation, but you can have it on for longer if you wish to spend more FP).
    • Rank 2: Activation Cost: 10FP, Tick Cost: 5FP, 20FP grants you 3s of Sense (an increase over the current implementation, and you can still choose to have it on longer if you wish to spend more FP).
    • Rank 3: Activation Cost: 5FP, Tick Cost: 5FP, 20FP grants you 4s of Sense (a large decrease over the current implementation, but you can still choose to have it on longer if you wish to spend more FP). -Yay more stupid nerfs for jedi/sith! How about lightning? This thing is ridiculous. Not sense. Also a suggestion: If you want to fix jedi so much why add more stuff to counter the stuff you added earlier? Just remove jedi damage reduction AND flinch. Remove that stupid stun from lightning when the sith stops to use it. No more ez kills with it but it's still a good thing for teamplay.


    Wall-grab
    This ability is a real life-saver while moving around a map and dropping to lower levels, especially on maps like Deathstar. But there are certain players who like to use its ability to hang onto walls forever, often in unreachable locations that cause it to be used in ways we do not intend or to setup lengthy ambushes. As such, the new wall-grab mechanics will actively drain FP slowly while holding onto a wall, automatically drops you upon reaching 0 FP. Also, wall-grab can no longer be used to regenerate FP after bunny hopping.

    These changes will still allow the ability to be used as a safe-fall but should prevent poorly planned ambushes. Players will need to better manage their FP pools by choosing the right moment to setup an ambush. -It's good that people won't hang 5 minutes on a wall just to save the ego score.


    Saber Perks
    We've been here before. While Saber vs Saber perks offer a nice diversity between the styles the Saber vs Gun perks adversely change the gameplay dynamics we'd like to see during Saber vs Gun fights. For this reason Saber vs Gun perks won't be included in future builds. Expect refinements to the Saber System and updated Saber vs Saber perks in 1.4.4. -Good. Q3 and cyan deflect were bad.


    Deflect
    This is another ability that greatly benefits from the reduced Block drains and as such we've made some tweaks while updating the mechanics to be less ping dependent. In 1.4.3 Cyan had the ability to deflect by simply holding attack while blocking, this allowed the player to focus entirely on aiming but was too powerful with continuous FP regeneration (even at slow speeds). We liked the quality of life this provided and have applied it to all ranks of deflect (with the Cyan deflect perk being removed) -(Can you remove cyan too?)- . Deflect is in all cases activated by holding attack while blocking and pauses FP regeneration.
    • Rank 1: Rapidly Drains FP while held, Cannot be used inside IDR.
    • Rank 2: Slowly Drains FP while held, Can be used inside IDR, Cannot be used inside Flinch range.
    • Rank 3: Does not Drain FP while held, Can be used inside IDR, Cannot be used inside Flinch range. -No more spamming mouse1. Good.


    Projectile Rifle
    The initial reason behind the Projectile Rifle FP change was to allow Jedi to survive a pop snipe from around a corner, but pop sniping was very fun to do. In reflection of this we've decided to bring back the protection for running Jedi outside of IDR and allow shot-gun snipes to exist vs running Jedi only. A blocking Jedi will be able to protect against a sniper rifle at any range.
    • FP Drain Inside IDR while running: Uncapped.
    • FP Drain Outside IDR while running: 40.
    • FP Drain Inside IDR while blocking <40. -It's cool that there are reasons to changes. But is "very fun to do" a good reason? eh?
     
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  2. Stassin

    Stassin Donator Movie Battles II Team Retired

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    No ! It just means you are fighting jedi who are really bad even if you don't believe that's the case. ^_^

    Am i talking in riddles or what ? Are my sentences that hard to understand ? I didn't mean you need to experience the usual gameplay, i meant you need hand-holding by a really patient guy who will show you in-game, by A + B, with all the details needed, that your gameplay view is wrong. Specifically said "you need to be shown". Yes.

    That's not surprising lol, since what i'm doing is really exasperating. The human way to respond would be somewhat Gumba does and just "xD, these guys are really hopeless, this is funny to watch, popcorn", but apparently i happen to be a hardcore nerd (along with Oddlewad) who will do more than that.

    Yeah agree with that, i don't think a shot should ever drain more than 40 or maybe 50 FP at most, it's kinda stupid.

    Yes please.
     
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  3. Darth Pujge

    Darth Pujge Internal Beta Team

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    I can agree with that, at least in my case. I've almost all of my time playing as force whore, I have no idea how to play as a gunner aside from "walk and shoot stuff" and as a saberist competent gunners scare me. I don't think my opinion really matters unless I'm talking from the perspective of a noob. :C

    Edit: Apparently to a quite a few people I'm not a noob.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
  4. CC-1119 "Appo'

    CC-1119 "Appo' Donator Internal Beta Team

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    I don't usually weigh in on balance regarding saberists vs gunners because I don't play the former, at all.

    All I can say on that topic is that flinch is retarded AF and we should have the old 'you take damage when you swing and get pushed back slightly but can still complete an animation' system. Sure saberists could rush you and get an easy kill on a sold but classes like hero & ARC are still more than capable of overcoming that. It also means that saberists aren't punished for getting close to a gunner, swinging and getting insta denied by flinch.
     
  5. Quinto

    Quinto

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    I meant the reason in the thread. If there's a good reason behind it then ok i didn't really play bh/hero much so idk.
     
  6. Jediknight Fou

    Jediknight Fou

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    Totally hopeless to argue with this kind of dev.
    Throwing in a shit autoprotection feature and if saberist die because of this shit, its a bad saberist?
    That cant be the logic of a sane person.
    Actually the gunner is bad because he needs this garbage of flinch.
    If i reading most of the stuff stassin writes i cant believe hes in the project lead.
    With every post he proves hes totally incompetent for this job.
     
  7. Stassin

    Stassin Donator Movie Battles II Team Retired

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    God freaking heck, this is like talking to a bunch of clueless kids who are so certain they know better. Seriously, better keep you in the dark than try to communicate. I'll leave that to tempest, it seems he likes to promise everything everyone wants or at least makes it feel that way like a politician such that everyone feels happy and understood. Doesn't change the end result though, heh.
     
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  8. RG4

    RG4 US Official Server Admin

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    Stassin you're acting like an SS13 coder, learn to take criticism and not insult your player base.
    On topic outside of saberist, how about we discuss something that basically is a must need on every map and even in FA. Snipers.
    In games where it's one and done snipers hold large amounts of power over how a game can sway if they're decently skilled and are able to take out other power classes IE, Wookies,SBDs,Sith/Jedi,Mandos,other snipers. Most people don't complain about it because well they like being able to GG no re people with sniper rifles, I love doing it because it requires some skill to even use properly considering how MB2 works. But right now and for a long time I've seen rounds go down to sniper wars, or one sniper basically being able to take out majority of the team to where everyone else is either mobbed by 5 players or more. Hell the issues with people being able to land shots on the fly because they're able to abuse some the movement mechanics has been called into question.

    Many other games tend to have balancing things to even out the advantage sniper rifles have, IE damage falloff,bullet drop, unanchored positions are very inaccurate,movement restrictions,high cost,zeroing. So MB2 literally has none of these outside of reloading causes you to be exposed for like 3-4 seconds. But besides the skill ceiling there's no downside to it at all. Specifically on mobile gunners such as Heros/BHs, Ruptor,M5 Sniper, and EE3 sniper all have several disadvantages because of.
    • Ruptor NEEDS to be bought at level 2 and has a trade off of standing still(I've seen savy players jump charge it, fix that)
    • M5 Sniper has a high ammo drain,you need to trade off other points to get it, lowest sniper damage, drains from main ammo pool
    • EE3 high ammo drain, high damage, takes directly from your ammo pool
    So I suggested was giving proj two levels, level one is very mobile but is reduced damage, isn't very accurate in most circumstances. Level two deals full damage, but your base movement speed is lower when carrying it, and you're required to be standing still in order to be accurate with it. This in kind would make armor useful against snipes instead of X class being the ones able to tank sniper shots, when all class will be able to have a sporting chance.
     
  9. Chaos the Chaotic

    Chaos the Chaotic Nerd

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    He?

    I knew it. She's a dude. That walks like a lady. t(+_+)t
     
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  10. Blazer

    Blazer

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    waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    ;(
    QQ
     
  11. Blazer

    Blazer

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    I just think ARC and flinch is weird. Like when a sith pushes a gunner class down, that means he spent FP to take the risk of pretty much guarenteeing a kill if he successfully pushed down the gunner, and if he pushes an ARC, the arc can get up and shoot at the same time, so why push an ARC down as a sith? If someone is a sharpshooter and they pick ARC against sith, they auto win.
     
  12. CC-1119 "Appo'

    CC-1119 "Appo' Donator Internal Beta Team

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    By the same avenue of logic, should a soldier not get a guaranteed kill against a sith when he knocks him down with a grenade?

    ARC is unique in that the class has zero barriers to movement, there is no point in time where you are unable to use one or the other form of Dexterity 3 movement, this means that the skill barrier is entirely on your focus and on you, you'll die faster than the worst sold player if you fuck up or you'll kick arse and take names if your ontop of your game and your focus is high.

    Or y'know, imps will spawn with ruptors & projs to kill the ARC before he can get started. Another class that is unbeatable if you're a sharpshooter by the way, is wook. Godcaster is IMBA if you can aim.

    That doesn't mean that you're unkillable however, sith just have to approach you differently. You can't beat an ARC in a head-on assault unless the ARC slips up but you can certainly wear down their stamina or use lightning to disable their ARC moves (they can still jump).

    Similar to how Deka or SBD requires unique approach from a Jedi, you can't rush them head on and expect to win 9 times out of 10.
     
  13. Jediknight Fou

    Jediknight Fou

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    Flinch is in many ways weird.
    We talking about a feature that help to kill saberists without problems.
    For example many classes have 2-3 lives, what the point in try to killing them, if you cant swing properly and get flinched almost everytime, and then they have 1-2 other lives, after you managed to get this hard earned kill, while these guys have nothing to do beside spamming blasters?
    You as saberist gained nothing from this besides low hp.
    Its pointless crap.
    Then we have clones which has one of the fastest guns even with lvl2 and blobs which knock a saberist down even if hes blocking.
    Wookies with bowcaster lvl 2 is almost unbeatable.
    Sbds and deka, well...i dont think i must say anything to this two.
    This game is unbalanced in so many ways at the moment and then hearing from a dev its balanced and fixed, just makes me sad.
    The only way a saberist has to kill gunners is to use the force or backstab them, everything else is pointless suicide and not very enjoyable.
    Even for a good saberist its a gamble, if he get flinched its over almost everytime.
    For a 1 live class, this is just retarded.
     
  14. Blazer

    Blazer

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    Yes I agree Fou. I do not like clones AT ALL. They have one of the fastest firing guns in the game, have 2 lives to use that gun twice, and then have blobs to knock you down if you are trying to block that fastest gun in the game, to shoot you even more. Against clones it's either attack and get flinched then die, or don't attack, blobbed, then die. You can use deflect but I'm not taking deflect just because one guy on the team is a clone.
     
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  15. takuta pls

    takuta pls

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    that was an astonishingly childish statement
     
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  16. SK55555555555555555

    SK55555555555555555 Donator Moderator Internal Beta Team

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    Its just sad to see that an update post about the future patch turned out into bashing a dev...
     
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  17. Tempest

    Tempest coding in Wonderland Movie Battles II Team

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    Being willing to try out ideas that seem like they'd be a positive change isn't the same thing as promising everyone they can get what they want/suggest for the game. There's been plenty that I've shot down when talking with people about various features.

    Couple of things btw:
    1) The FP regen decrease (and window of recovery) being based on being shot was one of the first suggestions I had for it when it first got brought up..
    2) Having flinch be based on threshholds so that you have to drain the saberists before you can cancel their swings was also one of my original suggestions for it. Don't know what ever happened to that.
    3) If I listened to/implemented everything everyone wanted, nudge would have been gone without consideration given there's a small handful that still want it vs the vast majority that don't. Compromises though.

    Anyway...ARC with new threshholds for ammo levels is pretty nice.
     
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  18. StarWarsGeek

    StarWarsGeek Internal Beta Team

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    I was fond of this idea too when flinch was first tried out, so it would be sort of similar to old stagger from... whatever build that was in. But having a FP threshold kind of defeats part of the purpose of flinch. You don't have time to drain a saberist who's hiding behind a corner. Flinch lets gunners stop an ambush if they react fast enough or know its coming. With an FP threshold, you wouldn't be able to drain the jedi fast enough as they step out of the corner, and the jedi could just sacrifice some HP to get a guaranteed kill.
     
  19. andrew

    andrew

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    ha..after over 8 years of playing mb2 to just have my opinion thrown aside by stassin because i apparently simply havent played against these godlike european jedi and im just an inexperienced noob

    go fight against shylix in gen during rc1 and come back to me that i havent experienced an unkillable irl sith lord playing mb2 in his spare time

    its very clear to me that any posts directed at you are either going to be misunderstood, or dismissed outright because you assume anyone that doesnt think along the same lines as you is either stupid or ignorant.

    mb2 did pretty well with having coders being gameplay designers for a very long time, but now we finally have an example of why big studios dont do it

    8 years ago this attitude would get you laughed off the forum by every vet still posting, and half of your other posts would be dismissed by "learn2walk noob"
     
  20. Tempest

    Tempest coding in Wonderland Movie Battles II Team

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    Maybe having it tied to the debuff for being in combat somehow..That way you can still flinch if you are indeed prepared/aware of the hiding saberist while alleviating random single shots being able to stop everything in all scenarios?
     
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