Feedback Thread: Open Beta (after V1.4.9) - Drop 4

[Gumba]

- Close distance FP drains now have a cap again (equivalent to close IDR from public)

why the fuck? no more shotgun and insane fp regen values holy shit sith are basically undrainable at this state

 

[Lessen]

I haven't played the open beta recently, but provided P3 plays anything like live, it could use a FP damage buff. I can see it already has received one, but I think that's on the charged shot.

I know Tempest seemed to identify P3 as possibly having a specific problem of low drains, but I'm not sure if he increased the drain multiplier for P3 or not after that....

is it like i should change to fists to increase fp regen, and turning saber on\off doesn't affect it?

I'm pretty sure it's "if you own a saber at all, you have slower FP regen than a guy who doesn't own a saber at all." So there's no micromanagement to worry about, it's basically just that FP regen on saberists is weaker, or FP regen on force whores is stronger. (Saberists can still meditate for getting a lot of FP back quickly, if they're in a safe position.)

why the fuck? no more shotgun and insane fp regen values holy shit sith are basically undrainable at this state

Pretty sure the cap referenced here is a "cap to how high the IDR can cause scaling-up at closer ranges," not a "cap on how much damage a shot can do." It's just about fixing a problem of FP drains being perhaps too high at melee range. Shotgun should still work on running saberists, and blocking should still cap a single-shot drain to 50 FP. As I understand it.

And besides, in the hotfix FP regen values got significantly nerfed and drain values got significantly buffed. Saberists didn't feel unkillable to me.

 

[Blazer]

Hotfix out:

Alt-Frag:
- Direct hit: Increased damage from 37 to 57
- Splash: Increased damage from 15 to 42

No. Just No. That is such a serious damage increase that is so unneccesary. ALT-FIRE Grenades aren't meant to do damage, they're meant to leave the enemy defenseless for a short while to allow you or your team to take him out.

Now that ALT-FIRE grenades do that much damage, sith/jedi literally have no chance against soldiers now. Unless a jedi/sith quick-getup then they literally have no chance to beat a gunner.

It was already easy this way, but One of the best ways to kill a saber-wielder as a gunner is to grab two frag grenades as an elite soldier. Now that it does 57 damage on a direct hit you can literally just double nade a sith and poke him with your fist/pistol and hes dead? That's pretty bs.
am i doing the math right?

 

[Lessen]

No. Just No. That is such a serious damage increase that is so unneccesary. ALT-FIRE Grenades aren't meant to do damage, they're meant to leave the enemy defenseless for a short while to allow you or your team to take him out.

Now that ALT-FIRE grenades do that much damage, sith/jedi literally have no chance against soldiers now. Unless a jedi/sith quick-getup then they literally have no chance to beat a gunner.

It was already easy this way, but One of the best ways to kill a saber-wielder as a gunner is to grab two frag grenades as an elite soldier. Now that it does 57 damage on a direct hit you can literally just double nade a sith and poke him with your fist/pistol and hes dead? That's pretty bs.

Have you used the new alt-frag? It's not at all easy to land. The old alt frag was an easy-to-land knockdown that justified the high expense of buying a frag by being so damn easy to land. THIS alt frag is a difficult to land uhhhh punch-to-the-gut. It's expensive AND hard to land so it oughta hurt.

Also: In your example, the double nade would actually kill, you wouldn't need to poke him with fist/pistol afterwards. Sith only have 100 hp after all, and damage reduction has been removed (aside from Force Whores and Friendly Fire afaik).

Aside @Tempest if alt-frag's explosion graphics could be changed to something that doesn't look like "a very small explosion upwards from the ground" and instead looks like "a moderately-sized explosion in the air," that.... seems important. Given that the properties of the thing have changed so dramatically. The current graphic is inaccurate. That's gotta be a client side fix rather than server side tho.

 

[Blazer]

Have you used the new alt-frag? It's not at all easy to land. The old alt frag was an easy-to-land knockdown that justified the high expense of buying a frag by being so damn easy to land. THIS alt frag is a difficult to land uhhhh punch-to-the-gut. It's expensive AND hard to land so it oughta hurt.

Also: In your example, the double nade would actually kill, you wouldn't need to poke him with fist/pistol afterwards. Sith only have 100 hp after all, and damage reduction has been removed (aside from Force Whores and Friendly Fire afaik).

Aside @Tempest if alt-frag's explosion graphics could be changed to something that doesn't look like "a very small explosion upwards from the ground" and instead looks like "a moderately-sized explosion in the air," that.... seems important. Given that the properties of the thing have changed so dramatically. The current graphic is inaccurate. That's gotta be a client side fix rather than server side tho.

Idk I shouldn't complain until I tried it. I have not tried it yet.

But 2 alt-fires kill a sith now? oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooffffffffffffffffffffffffff

anyway I have another question. I forgot how gunners killed jedi back in the days of non-flinch. How are gunners supposed to kill saber wielders now that flinch is gone? I mean you can't expect to shoot the force-user 3-5 times before he touches you with his saber.

Aside from dodging his saber, you have like 0.8 seconds to shoot him from the second he swings to the second his saber hits you.

 

[Blazer]

Also I want to point out that you say that an ALT-FIRE is hard to hit directly in the first place, but let's remember you only need to do it once because if the first nade hits the sith, you can easily just hit him with another while hes down. So basically now if a sith is in a doorway you just throw a nade , then throw another whiles hes down and you win

 

[Gumba]

Pretty sure the cap referenced here is a "cap to how high the IDR can cause scaling-up at closer ranges," not a "cap on how much damage a shot can do." It's just about fixing a problem of FP drains being perhaps too high at melee range. Shotgun should still work on running saberists, and blocking should still cap a single-shot drain to 50 FP. As I understand it.

And besides, in the hotfix FP regen values got significantly nerfed and drain values got significantly buffed. Saberists didn't feel unkillable to me.

Someone reliable told me they don't work. And I had sith running around in IDR tanking about 10 primary e11 shots while running. It's insane this build, Jedi/Sith die super fast when you can actually shoot them but never run out of fp

 

[Blazer]

Someone reliable told me they don't work. And I had sith running around in IDR tanking about 10 primary e11 shots while running. It's insane this build, Jedi/Sith die super fast when you can actually shoot them but never run out of fp

I'll be honest, I really hate fp drain overall. Half the time I don't even shoot at a saber-weilder because It's not even worth the ammo OR the time. They just rush me/walk & block toward me and probably once in every 100 saberists I shoot they actually die because they ran out of FP.

 

[Lessen]

So basically now if a sith is in a doorway you just throw a nade , then throw another whiles hes down and you win

Easier said than done, against a smart sith anyway. A smart sith going through a doorway could either jump over the incoming alt-frag or just push as he's coming through the doorway to ward off any incoming alt-frags.

How are gunners supposed to kill saber wielders now that flinch is gone?

Knockback... sort of. With the removal of damage reduction, saberists take more knockback from shots than they did before. Also, they may have an extra multiplier that causes them to take more knockback than other classes, but perhaps Tempest removed that. Anyway, with a combination of footwork AND knockback, I'm pretty sure any class can take advantage of a poor swing to create space. (edit: Notably, this means that a gunner that corners themself is now likely at a disadvantage, instead of being at an advantage like they are in public. Because they need space for footwork. They can't just rely on flinch/knockback to save them.)

Pretty sure knockback is based on damage, meaning headshots do more knockback.

Not sure if crouching reduces knockback or anything.

Regarding the discussion about FP drains: I dunno, in the large game we had going on US Beta yesterday, saberists really didn't seem to be terrorizing anyone, but they didn't seem to be useless. Snipers were the real terror, especially Tempest's Westar M5. M5's even scarier with this 15% faster shot speed. Saberists may have an advantage in 1v1 over gunners, and they may also be able to stall in 1v1 for a really long time, but when gunners group up like they oughta, they seemed to be able to mow down saberists. I think a group of gunners beats a group of saberists by focus-firing each of them down in turn.

 

[Blazer]

Regarding the discussion about FP drains: I dunno, in the large game we had going on US Beta yesterday, saberists really didn't seem to be terrorizing anyone, but they didn't seem to be useless. Snipers were the real terror, especially Tempest's Westar M5. M5's even scarier with this 15% faster shot speed. Saberists may have an advantage in 1v1 over gunners, and they may also be able to stall in 1v1 for a really long time, but when gunners group up like they oughta, they seemed to be able to mow down saberists. I think a group of gunners beats a group of saberists by focus-firing each of them down in turn.

Oh yeah, any day of the week a decent group of gunners can easily beat a good group of sith/jedi.
With combined efforts of a few gunners, it's too hard for saberists to get close. The saberists can't use push or they get mowed down by the other 4 guys, or if they get too close they get naded and/or just completely bombarded with fire. Usually the only way saberists win a fight vs a group of gunners is just run in and cause so much chaos they spread.

 

[Blazer]

What it really comes down to is when it's released and how everything fits together. Maybe this is the update that fixes everything? I mean ever since flinch came out the community was split more than it ever had been, so removing it is a great thing, or could be the worse decision they ever made, though I highly doubt that.



also, as long as they dont add in that thing where cyan had insane deflect perks I'll play MB2. I swear that patch where they made cyan able to deflect with no fp drain is the reason i took a 3 month break from mb2

 

[MuscBodypillow]

What it really comes down to is when it's released and how everything fits together. Maybe this is the update that fixes everything? I mean ever since flinch came out the community was split more than it ever had been, so removing it is a great thing, or could be the worse decision they ever made, though I highly doubt that.



also, as long as they dont add in that thing where cyan had insane deflect perks I'll play MB2. I swear that patch where they made cyan able to deflect with no fp drain is the reason i took a 3 month break from mb2

Did you even play on the damn beta server or are you being old man jenkins just rambling about the old days . Play the beta, THEN come here and leave feedback,

 

[Ostra]

Please, give us the TLJ Crait Luke Skywalker model.
It would be a very nice complement.

 

[Gumba]

Stop posting this random shit and focus on feedback

 

[Lessen]

Please, give us the TLJ Crait Luke Skywalker model.

Dammit Ostra this has nothing to do with the Open Beta.

 

[Tempest]

I know Tempest seemed to identify P3 as possibly having a specific problem of low drains, but I'm not sure if he increased the drain multiplier for P3 or not after that....

Still figuring that out at the moment.

I'm pretty sure it's "if you own a saber at all, you have slower FP regen than a guy who doesn't own a saber at all." So there's no micromanagement to worry about, it's basically just that FP regen on saberists is weaker, or FP regen on force whores is stronger. (Saberists can still meditate for getting a lot of FP back quickly, if they're in a safe position.)

Correct. I try to be explicit about what a change does/how it works if it might be unclear.

Pretty sure the cap referenced here is a "cap to how high the IDR can cause scaling-up at closer ranges," not a "cap on how much damage a shot can do." It's just about fixing a problem of FP drains being perhaps too high at melee range. Shotgun should still work on running saberists, and blocking should still cap a single-shot drain to 50 FP. As I understand it.

Correct. There were concerns that the really close FP drains were too inconsistent or some such so that's what that was aimed at.

How are gunners supposed to kill saber wielders now that flinch is gone?

The same way you kill them without flinch?

Knockback... sort of. With the removal of damage reduction, saberists take more knockback from shots than they did before. Also, they may have an extra multiplier that causes them to take more knockback than other classes, but perhaps Tempest removed that. Anyway, with a combination of footwork AND knockback, I'm pretty sure any class can take advantage of a poor swing to create space. (edit: Notably, this means that a gunner that corners themself is now likely at a disadvantage, instead of being at an advantage like they are in public. Because they need space for footwork. They can't just rely on flinch/knockback to save them.)

Also this. As for the extra knockback, it isn't currently enabled. I'm working on putting it back but a bit toned down since I had feedback that said it was a bit crazy.

Pretty sure knockback is based on damage, meaning headshots do more knockback.

Correct on both.

Not sure if crouching reduces knockback or anything.

Not sure if it reduces knockback from being shot but the extra knockback mechanic I have always makes the minimum fairly noticeable regardless so it shouldn't be much of a worry.

 

[Lessen]

I appreciate all the affirmations and clarifications, Temp.

The same way you kill them without flinch?

but did you just reply to "how do you kill saberists without flinch?" with "the same way you kill saberists without flinch?"

'cuz that don't make no sense.

 

[Jango32]

Clone blobs can no longer knock down enemies that are about to launch a rocket (Mandos/ARCS). Is this intended?

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

This beta desperately needs a lightning nerf. With that crutch gone, the balance would be close to perfect.

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

If we're getting rid of flinch - there definitely should be some changes to Lightning so it's no longer as strong vs gunners, it's more than a little overkill now.

Also - please make this stamina button change for ARC/CLONE optional or give an option to switch between either activation/deactivation method.

I could get used to this new system, but I'm so set in my ways I don't want to change, even the like 1/4th of a second confusion I get trying to remember to press the button again is enough for it to mess with my ARC-FU gameplay because of how fast you have to react during said gameplay.

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