Feedback Thread: Open Beta (after V1.4.9) - Drop 3

[Lessen]

Yeah I was just responding specifically to the "it actually would be fine if there was no knockback" line of thought. I know it wasn't the only thing you said tho

 

[k4far]

Well, so I have a solution for QT being useless with the changes.​

You can quickly turn it in a normal abillity instead of a gimmick. Let it have the alt-frag functionality but while doing so extend the arm swing animation of a hero that happens prior to quick throw and make it visible enough to tell when somebody is about to use it (slow down the animation so it's like arm swing but granade goes after you swing your arm to the point you let the nade fall from your hand. You can compensate for that in any way you see fit.

You will have one thing off your plate.

 

[Lessen]

So by "alt-frag functionality" you mean "explode when it hits the ground." So basically your suggestion amounts to "add a longer delay between the input and the actual grenade release by slowing down the throw animation, and keep the detonate-on-ground-contact," correct?

 

[k4far]

So by "alt-frag functionality" you mean "explode when it hits the ground." So basically your suggestion amounts to "add a longer delay between the input and the actual grenade release by slowing down the throw animation, and keep the detonate-on-ground-contact," correct?

That's correct. if arm swing is visible enough you can react to it while preserving the alt-frag functionality. Alt-Frag was about not switching for granade to throw it you can very well have animation of a Hero reaching to his pocket to make it possible to counter.

 

[Tempest]

Clarifying on FP drains:
- In public, blocking is basically a 70% difference (just with the different arbitrary multipliers) compared to non-blocking drains (although you can look at the FP drain spreadsheet that's been making its way around to see the real differences/variations for yourself).
- In beta, I made the IDR math identical for blocking and non-blocking so the actual number that is shown by the separate multiplier (e.g. 0.95x or 0.60x as the baseline for blocking) are actually accurate now. In the previous session, it still came out to roughly a 40% difference between blocking and not blocking.

Also, the extra knockback isn't included in this session. The knockback being done on saberists now is identical to what happens to gunners that have no armor remaining.

 

[norad]

I haven't tested yet but the adjustment to fp drain this iteration seems like a good middle ground to give some purpose to deflectors.

 

[Noob]

Removal of sec nade is really annoying. also it makes quickthrow 2 worthless

you can survive in mb2_mustafar lava on rebs side

 

[vasya]

correct me if im wrong - now it's almost zero reason to use block to hold blaster fire?
cuz i've tested with wingun and in close range it burned almost full fp from jedi when he was blocking.
also was killed by arc because he destroyed 30 fp with one shot when i was blocking.
can say same about mando.
thats just feels ridiculous vs some classes. bam bam, few shots, u ded. and u can't defend because your block doesn't do shit.
i appreciate removing flinch but jedis now are tinier than ever.
im all about removing tank-role from them, but when they have hard times to catch flying, running, jumping opponents they can't be light assassin-like class.
arc for example has goofy hitboxes while performing jumps, and he can shoot u. so if i did pushed him, whatever he still can shoot and get up in same time. if i don't have much fp, i will likely be fuckd because of his damage to FP.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

• Stamina is broken. It doesn't seem to be working correctly.
• Dodge seems more fair, could perhaps be dropped even a tad more.
• FP drains seem very high and erratic, one moment you lose nothing and the next you lose 25
• 1.5 is definitely a lot of damage and makes every shot feel impactful, but might be too much. Let's tone this down to a nice middleground of 1.4 next.
• High ROF weapons scale really strongly.
• Flinches still activate on some occasions
• Blobs have some kind of bogus firing delay
• Lack of Flinch definitely does limit options as gunner
• 1v1 in Jedi vs E11 matchup often feels unwinnable since you'll land your shots but they'll tank
  
• Ganking a Jedi/Sith feels too winnable with these damages, just sneak 3 potshots and GG
• I like the new Secondary Frag, but it feels very very very skill-based to land. Might need a bonus.
  
• More notes to come...

 

[Lessen]

now it's almost zero reason to use block to hold blaster fire?

FP drains seem very high and erratic, one moment you lose nothing and the next you lose 25

Are you factoring in the "aim at your target to reduce drains" mechanic? (That mechanic is only active while blocking)

I haven't played this beta yet, tho, so I don't know what it's like really.

Stamina is broken. It doesn't seem to be working correctly.

plz elaborate

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Are you factoring in the "aim at your target to reduce drains" mechanic? (That mechanic is only active while blocking)

Feels really whack. I can't predict what I've drained at all.

plz elaborate

I can walk with Stamina on. Stamina 3 doesn't regen while running.

 

[Lessen]

I can walk with Stamina on. Stamina 3 doesn't regen while running.

I'm not sure you understand the intent of the stamina redesign.

You've always been able to "walk with Stamina on." You just had to hold the stamina button WHILE holding the walk button. Previously, it would result in you walking faster WHILE STILL regenerating stamina, which was silly. This redesign keeps the ability to walk faster, but makes it cost Stamina now. The only way to turn off Stamina now is to press the Stamina button again.

Admittedly, Tempest sounds like he's considering redesigning it a little further to remove stamina-walking entirely, since it's conceptually strange and was unintentional in the first place. It's something I've used habitually for quite a while though, cuz clone walk speed WITHOUT stamina absolutely sucks massive amounts of ass. So to speak. So IMO if Stamina Walking is removed, the walk speed of clone should be buffed, since currently it's so slow that if you start to walk from a stationary start, you'll trigger the movement bug where you move extremely slowly, as your speed very gradually ramps up. afaik Soldier is the only other class that triggers this bug. (edit: and really, Soldier walk speed ought to be buffed too imo, but keep runspeed the same. Just buff walkspeed to avoid triggering that frustrating movement bug.)

(Not sure about Stamina 3 and regenerating while running. I don't have any info about how that has worked or ought to work catalogued in my brain at all.)

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

I'm not sure you understand the intent of the stamina redesign.

You've always been able to "walk with Stamina on." You just had to hold the stamina button WHILE holding the walk button. Previously, it would result in you walking faster WHILE STILL regenerating stamina, which was silly. This redesign keeps the ability to walk faster, but makes it cost Stamina now. The only way to turn off Stamina now is to press the Stamina button again.

Admittedly, Tempest sounds like he's considering redesigning it a little further to remove stamina-walking entirely, since it's conceptually strange and was unintentional in the first place. It's something I've used habitually for quite a while though, cuz clone walk speed WITHOUT stamina absolutely sucks massive amounts of ass. So to speak. So IMO if Stamina Walking is removed, the walk speed of clone should be buffed, since currently it's so slow that if you start to walk from a stationary start, you'll trigger the movement bug where you move extremely slowly, as your speed very gradually ramps up. afaik Soldier is the only other class that triggers this bug.

(Not sure about Stamina 3 and regenerating while running. I don't have any info about how that has worked or ought to work catalogued in my brain at all.)

I'm just gonna throw out the idea that let's not re-design just because of one bug. Let's fix the stamina-walking bug as that is not intended behaviour. The UX feels terrible when you have to toggle it on and off.

If there's an issue with walk speed, it ought to be a global change across all classes. If there's a speed bug related to walking as a Clone/ARC, that should be fixed. Let's not design around bugs.

 

[Lessen]

Let's not design around bugs.

Fair enough

If Tempest does as he most recently said he would and makes it so walking cancels stamina again, and then also makes it so holding Stamina + Walk doesn't do anything (slow walk speed, stamina regen), and keeps the ability to cancel stamina while running by pressing the stamina button again (a feature requested by someone else), and fixes whatever's causing slow walkspeeds to behave extra shittily in a variety of situations, I think everyone will be happy.

Good luck Tempest

(This WILL constitute a nerf to clone/ARC, since their top walkspeed will have been reduced. But if slow walkspeeds are fixed to not glitch out constantly, it won't be horrible.)

(The way slow walkspeeds glitch out is sort of avoidable if you always preface your walking with a brief moment of running, but that's just a way of working around what's a bug that should be fixed.)

 

[k4far]

• burst on a280/t21 rekts instantly,
• wasting push is unforgiving,
• snipers feel okay,
• love new nade (qt version needs something extra),
• poison might be a little too weak (it feels like nothing),
• blocking can let enemy to drain your fp just like while running,
• some remains of flinch
• torso multipler is a little too high? (reward for accuracy plz),

 

[Lessen]

burst on a280/t21 rekts instantly,

T-21 doesn't have burst

did you mean DLT-20a (BH) burstfire? And/or T-21 primary fire (cannon)?

snipers feel okay,

haha

torso multipler is a little too high? (reward for accuracy plz),

headshots are still twice the damage of bodyshots tho. (Haven't played the Beta myself, just saying.)

some remains of flinch

what does this mean?

 

[k4far]

T-21 doesn't have burst. Did you mean DLT-20a (BH) burstfire?

Yes!

Headshots are still twice the damage of bodyshots tho.

Too much anyway with all those rapid fire weapons. SBD and Deka rekt even more. Clone rifle drains running Sith under 2 seconds of continious fire and closer he is the higher drain gets. Slap from SBD is certain death now didn't get up succesfully in this build yet lol

haha

I hate them so... they are too worried not getting hit by stray bullet to snipe xD

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

If Tempest makes it so walking cancels stamina again, and then also makes it so holding Stamina + Walk doesn't do anything (slow walk speed, stamina regen), and keeps the ability to cancel stamina while running by pressing the stamina button again (a feature requested by someone else), and fixes whatever's causing slow walkspeeds to behave extra shittily in a variety of situations, I think everyone will be happy.

This is essentially what should happen

 

[Lessen]

Oh also, @Tempest @GoodOl'Ben crouch should also stop Stamina, otherwise you have counter-intuitive stamina-crawling...... which is actually super easy to input in the Live build, since crouch doesn't stop Stamina even in the Live build. I totally neglected to mention this. And since crawl is faster than Walk anyway, it's actually the better option.

But yeah, crouch oughta stop Stamina, and holding crouch+Stamina shouldn't work (crouch should overrule Stamina). Surely.

And any fixes/changes you make to slow walkspeeds should be applied to slow crawlspeeds if applicable, and as you already know crouch shouldn't be faster than walk.

god damn, so many little things to tweak/fix, on top of also revising whole systems for saber/gunner. I feel bad for Tempest now.

 

[Stassin]

Previously, it would result in you walking faster WHILE STILL regenerating stamina, which was silly.

This is incorrect, walking faster thanks to holding stamina button always prevented stamina regen. In fact even if you didn't walk you still wouldn't regen, so it had to be simply holding the button that prevented the regen.