Dueling System too Complicated

[starcatraz]

I can't play Jedi or Sith anymore, i simply can't outduel anyone. ill give a few examples.

I really dislike Yawning. takes the fun out of the game.

You cant block if you yawn, you dont see what your opponent is doing, moving your camera so much and so fast is hard on the eyes, at least for some, me included.

if your opponent yawns, good luck blocking it.

having saber duels be so complicated is not good for the game in my opinion, sure high skill ceiling is good, i like when a game has something to be better at, but this is too much, you can't learn from your mistakes, you can't learn from your opponents.

I've been dueling for the past 2 days trying to understand this system, its impossible to beat someone who knows all this and is good at this, who uses dual sabers. i have no idea what they are doing, i have no idea how to defend myself, i have no idea how to even attack them. i try interrupt, i try to block, i try to run, i try everything. I beat him 3 times in a row. How? i don't even know what i did.

This is whats wrong with dueling. you can't learn from duels. you don't know what the other person does that makes you suffer BP damage.


I feel like the system needs to be toned down to something more simple. More complicated doesn't always mean better, you can be good at doing something simple better than others. By no means i want the skill in dueling to go down, but at least have it be doable by newer players who dont have to spend hundreds of hours just to understand what the dueling system even is. i played about 300 hours combined in the game and i just now know what Yawning or Interrupting is. and the System updates and changes every few months.

Its better to keep it at one point and just improve on it, There is just so much to dueling its insanely complicated.

Holding down Mouse to attack and Clicking and blocking afterwards (swing blocking) is just kinda broken. you can never slap someone who is just perfect at this. you can never stop them from attacking and you will always get slapped if you simply Can't swing block as good as them.

there is no alternative way to beat someone in a duel. its just so frustrating. when i first played the mod dueling was way more simple, and i actually could beat people in duels, i had a chance to beat some good duelists, maybe even slightly. now its just impossible.

 

[Def!led]

It used to be a lot more simple, players nowadays call it neutral block, years ago we had a PB system that was a lot easier to learn and allowed duels to flow better. All you had to do was put the lightsaber in between yourself and your opponent's swing, there was no need to fling your mouse left and right using camera angles to PB your opponent's swing. If you had told me 5 years ago that we'd have a PB system like we do today, I would tell you it simply doesn't work and would ruin the duel community, which, it has.

Taking away the old PB system was one of the biggest mistakes, not only did it affect duels but it also changed open mode. With the old system you had a chance to win a 1v2, 1v3, or even a 1v4 but not anymore. The new PB system changed the pace of dueling and with the removal of features like nudge and fast half-swing, it only further ruined the system. Now we have this well understood meta of turtle arcade style PB system that basically highly encourages you to YAW in order not to be PB'd.

I suggest you read a certain thread, starting from here -> Tempest's Saber Build

 

[PuNk]

Just like with anything in life, you need to spend a lot of time on it to get better. It's the harsh truth.

Now I do agree with you on a few things though. I definitely think learning from duels is close to impossible for someone who's not aware of all the hidden mechanics, values and rules. Dueling guides are there, but not many people visit the forums and those that do only go through it once and do not closely pay attention. This situation was even worse than before in regards to mistakes not being shown. Now at least you have things such as PBIndicator, crosshair flashing yellow when your opponent PB's you, Taunt Voice when you get ACM and apparently according to Stassin you can even tell when people are swingblocking based on their leg animations though I haven't really tried looking into that myself.
Perhaps add a more in-depth library section regarding sabering would help. Maybe just add Sev's dueling compendium itself into the game? Surely more people would see it there than on forum.

Regarding the complexity, I don't think it's that complex to be honest. It's bugged at the moment in 1.5.1 patch and often annoying, but not that complex. There are really only a few techniques you need to get better at to become decent. Just practise swingblocking, PBlocking and countering and you should be fine against many players if not even the majority. Competition is not very tough in this patch.
Drastic changes are not very welcomed here, but I can definitely say that multiple developers and dedicated players are working together on improving the current system and making it more diverse and fun. Not necessarily easier though, it will still be pretty hard to master.

Aside from this, as someone who has been playing for 7+ years and spent the majority of them as utter shit at dueling I can tell you that persistence is the key. It's not rocket science. Just don't quit, focus on one thing at the time to improve and eventually you will see the results.

 

[Stassin]

The current dueling isn't complex, on the contrary it's too simple and at the same time not precise enough which makes it very boring overall. On the other hand it is unintuitive and lacking when it comes to guiding the player through visual interactions. The in-game library not being updated at all also hurts.

 

[starcatraz]

It used to be a lot more simple, players nowadays call it neutral block, years ago we had a PB system that was a lot easier to learn and allowed duels to flow better. All you had to do was put the lightsaber in between yourself and your opponent's swing, there was no need to fling your mouse left and right using camera angles to PB your opponent's swing. If you had told me 5 years ago that we'd have a PB system like we do today, I would tell you it simply doesn't work and would ruin the duel community, which, it has.

Taking away the old PB system was one of the biggest mistakes, not only did it affect duels but it also changed open mode. With the old system you had a chance to win a 1v2, 1v3, or even a 1v4 but not anymore. The new PB system changed the pace of dueling and with the removal of features like nudge and fast half-swing, it only further ruined the system. Now we have this well understood meta of turtle arcade style PB system that basically highly encourages you to YAW in order not to be PB'd.

I suggest you read a certain thread, starting from here -> Tempest's Saber Build

pretty sure i played during that time, now it seems to be locked directly to the player model

 

[Hessu]

I can't play Jedi or Sith anymore, i simply can't outduel anyone. ill give a few examples.

I really dislike Yawning. takes the fun out of the game.

You cant block if you yawn, you dont see what your opponent is doing, moving your camera so much and so fast is hard on the eyes, at least for some, me included.

if your opponent yawns, good luck blocking it.

having saber duels be so complicated is not good for the game in my opinion, sure high skill ceiling is good, i like when a game has something to be better at, but this is too much, you can't learn from your mistakes, you can't learn from your opponents.

I've been dueling for the past 2 days trying to understand this system, its impossible to beat someone who knows all this and is good at this, who uses dual sabers. i have no idea what they are doing, i have no idea how to defend myself, i have no idea how to even attack them. i try interrupt, i try to block, i try to run, i try everything. I beat him 3 times in a row. How? i don't even know what i did.

This is whats wrong with dueling. you can't learn from duels. you don't know what the other person does that makes you suffer BP damage.


I feel like the system needs to be toned down to something more simple. More complicated doesn't always mean better, you can be good at doing something simple better than others. By no means i want the skill in dueling to go down, but at least have it be doable by newer players who dont have to spend hundreds of hours just to understand what the dueling system even is. i played about 300 hours combined in the game and i just now know what Yawning or Interrupting is. and the System updates and changes every few months.

Its better to keep it at one point and just improve on it, There is just so much to dueling its insanely complicated.

Holding down Mouse to attack and Clicking and blocking afterwards (swing blocking) is just kinda broken. you can never slap someone who is just perfect at this. you can never stop them from attacking and you will always get slapped if you simply Can't swing block as good as them.

there is no alternative way to beat someone in a duel. its just so frustrating. when i first played the mod dueling was way more simple, and i actually could beat people in duels, i had a chance to beat some good duelists, maybe even slightly. now its just impossible.

2 days is nothing, read dueling guides play more so you'll understand whats going on

 

[Tylenol]

I think the problem that you’re having is just related to the fact that you don’t have anyone on your same skill level, which is unfortunately quite relevant and discouraging for a lot of people. You’re not able to learn from your failed duels since you aren’t given the time and space to understand what led you to losing

I think the best thing to do would just be to ask around, whether on bigger duel servers or clan discord chats for people who have the same amount of hours as you and spar with them. Then try to keep in contact with them and try to spar as often as possible.

It would be great to have some sort of ELO matchmaking system for duel mode to resolve issues like this, but honestly there’s probably hundreds of reasons why it’s just not possible. Shame

 

[-!-Sekundus]

I think the current system is easy to grasp and in many ways it simply does not feal as enjoyable as it used to be. But than again that's just my opinion.

 

[Blazer]

I've learned over time that the saber system isn't more complicated, but just doesn't work. peroid.

Why do I have to fling my mouse around as fast as a 747 JET like I'm trying to get headshots in CSGO? This is saber fighting, it's ridiculous. The fact that I have like half a second to not only predict, but know which of 7 angles my opponent is swinging from, to actually putting my crosshair in some stupid little invisible box is so... infuriating.

I sat for hours and hours and hours practicing with some big name players known for their dueling and I just couldn't do it. Not that I am computer illiterate or fried in the brain (mostly), but because it's a stupid system. It's so infuriating to think the hours of my life I WASTED even trying.

It's so boring too. Like 99% of the time I die in a duel, even some REALLY good ones I had, I'm just like "I have no idea how I died, what happened to my BP, how my opponent hasn't died, or why some things even happened at all" then I go back to gunner knowing that, that is something that requires some bit of skill, and not just being a robot who sits at his computer and learns the system like it's it's not even a game anymore....

Really that last sentence defines trying to learn sabering. It's not an enjoyable experience, and it doesn't make any sense. It's literally just being a dumb robot doing the same things over and over while not even having any fun, until you... kind of? get the idea....? maybe?

 

[Tylenol]

stuff

Read my post above. You obviously need a mentor and it doesn't even need to be someone who's in a clan, just anyone on a server

 

[Townsend]

you're saying pb'ing and attacking is too much for you?
My nigga im sorry but chu retarded

 

[noel]

learn to yawn it helps a lot

 

[Pokrew]

Nigga the system is shitty rn but that doesn't mean you can't get better, it takes quite some time, but it's not impossible. I had a similar experience ad PuNk, been playing since october 2011 so 7+ years, and for most of the time I was shit at duels; now, even if I cant be considered a top duelist, I got considerably better just by sacrificing some gaming sessions to dueling only, no Open mode. And it worked. It's just simple as that. Time will make the magic

 

[Scott The Scout]

you're saying pb'ing and attacking is too much for you?
My nigga im sorry but chu retarded

Yeah man, you retarded if you don't have milisecond reaction time.

Get you a galaxy brain my man.

 

[Townsend]

Yeah man, you retarded if you don't have milisecond reaction time.

Get you a galaxy brain my man.

This guy gets it

 

[Recourse]

You're just going to have to improve I'm afraid. 2 days is not a sufficient amount of time to understand the system (let alone master it) and to be honest, that's a good thing. Be persistent and comfortable with the fact that you'll fail for a bit, and you'll get better.

Yawing is a significant part of dueling and certainly won't be disappearing anytime soon. It's more than possible to win a duel against a yawing opponent, you just have to train yourself not to panic when they're utilised (alongside learning the PB zones, familiarising yourself with the swing animations etc).

Yeah man, you retarded if you don't have milisecond reaction time.

Get you a galaxy brain my man.

This is an inaccurate exaggeration of PB.

Good PB is only partially owed to reaction time, it's also owed to prediction (which is a far more important factor imo). I can't consistently react to consecutive swings after the first, but good crosshair placement and consciously predicting where they might swing next pretty much eliminates the need to do so.

In agreement with Stassin and Punk I have to say, the dueling doesn't feel very complex at all. Whilst I don't hate the patch, it's certainly not as enjoyable as the previous one for reasons I still haven't fully fleshed out myself.

 

[noel]

You're just going to have to improve I'm afraid. 2 days is not a sufficient amount of time to understand the system (let alone master it) and to be honest, that's a good thing. Be persistent and comfortable with the fact that you'll fail for a bit, and you'll get better.

Yawing is a significant part of dueling and certainly won't be disappearing anytime soon. It's more than possible to win a duel against a yawing opponent, you just have to train yourself not to panic when they're utilised (alongside learning the PB zones, familiarising yourself with the swing animations etc).




This is an inaccurate exaggeration of PB.

Good PB is only partially owed to reaction time, it's also owed to prediction (which is a far more important factor imo). I can't consistently react to consecutive swings after the first, but good crosshair placement and consciously predicting where they might swing next pretty much eliminates the need to do so.

In agreement with Stassin and Punk I have to say, the dueling doesn't feel very complex at all. Whilst I don't hate the patch, it's certainly not as enjoyable as the previous one for reasons I still haven't fully fleshed out myself.

oh stfu being humble u prehk ur reaction times are like a fucking AI!!!!

also i think its yawning not yawing...

 

[foggy]

I've been dueling for the past 2 days

i went to boxing club for 2 days and mohammed ali beat my ass!!! boxing is too hard what do???? pls help?

 

[Bare Jon]

having saber duels be so complicated is not good for the game in my opinion, sure high skill ceiling is good, i like when a game has something to be better at, but this is too much, you can't learn from your mistakes, you can't learn from your opponents.

I've been dueling for the past 2 days trying to understand this system, its impossible to beat someone who knows all this and is good at this, who uses dual sabers. i have no idea what they are doing, i have no idea how to defend myself, i have no idea how to even attack them. i try interrupt, i try to block, i try to run, i try everything. I beat him 3 times in a row. How? i don't even know what i did.

This is whats wrong with dueling. you can't learn from duels. you don't know what the other person does that makes you suffer BP damage.


I feel like the system needs to be toned down to something more simple. More complicated doesn't always mean better, you can be good at doing something simple better than others. By no means i want the skill in dueling to go down, but at least have it be doable by newer players who dont have to spend hundreds of hours just to understand what the dueling system even is. i played about 300 hours combined in the game and i just now know what Yawning or Interrupting is. and the System updates and changes every few months.

Its better to keep it at one point and just improve on it, There is just so much to dueling its insanely complicated.

Holding down Mouse to attack and Clicking and blocking afterwards (swing blocking) is just kinda broken. you can never slap someone who is just perfect at this. you can never stop them from attacking and you will always get slapped if you simply Can't swing block as good as them.

there is no alternative way to beat someone in a duel. its just so frustrating. when i first played the mod dueling was way more simple, and i actually could beat people in duels, i had a chance to beat some good duelists, maybe even slightly. now its just impossible.

 

[jango40]

what annoys me about dueling in general is that it is so unintuitive. With everything else you can just play normally and you will learn how to do shit effectively eventually, for dueling you have to read fucking tutorials and have mentors and shit which is boring as hell and just seems like a huge waste of time