Dueling System too Complicated

[starcatraz]

I can't play Jedi or Sith anymore, i simply can't outduel anyone. ill give a few examples.

I really dislike Yawning. takes the fun out of the game.

You cant block if you yawn, you dont see what your opponent is doing, moving your camera so much and so fast is hard on the eyes, at least for some, me included.

if your opponent yawns, good luck blocking it.

having saber duels be so complicated is not good for the game in my opinion, sure high skill ceiling is good, i like when a game has something to be better at, but this is too much, you can't learn from your mistakes, you can't learn from your opponents.

I've been dueling for the past 2 days trying to understand this system, its impossible to beat someone who knows all this and is good at this, who uses dual sabers. i have no idea what they are doing, i have no idea how to defend myself, i have no idea how to even attack them. i try interrupt, i try to block, i try to run, i try everything. I beat him 3 times in a row. How? i don't even know what i did.

This is whats wrong with dueling. you can't learn from duels. you don't know what the other person does that makes you suffer BP damage.


I feel like the system needs to be toned down to something more simple. More complicated doesn't always mean better, you can be good at doing something simple better than others. By no means i want the skill in dueling to go down, but at least have it be doable by newer players who dont have to spend hundreds of hours just to understand what the dueling system even is. i played about 300 hours combined in the game and i just now know what Yawning or Interrupting is. and the System updates and changes every few months.

Its better to keep it at one point and just improve on it, There is just so much to dueling its insanely complicated.

Holding down Mouse to attack and Clicking and blocking afterwards (swing blocking) is just kinda broken. you can never slap someone who is just perfect at this. you can never stop them from attacking and you will always get slapped if you simply Can't swing block as good as them.

there is no alternative way to beat someone in a duel. its just so frustrating. when i first played the mod dueling was way more simple, and i actually could beat people in duels, i had a chance to beat some good duelists, maybe even slightly. now its just impossible.

 

[noel]

what annoys me about dueling in general is that it is so unintuitive. With everything else you can just play normally and you will learn how to do shit effectively eventually, for dueling you have to read fucking tutorials and have mentors and shit which is boring as hell and just seems like a huge waste of time

ingame tutorials will help but I don't really know how else we could make it more intuitive, the HUD has improved massively with the addition of pb indicator, all the xhair colours and such (my #1 favourite thing about 1.5 btw). What else can we really add except ingame tutorials and stuff? Nothing much; not without massively changing the mechanics anyway.

 

[Callum]

It really isn't that complicated.. I became a Master after six or so months. This patch is the noob patch, you are able to instantly counter even if you miss the PB; the interruption mechanic is essentially gone (when compared to previous patch) so you can attack freely and not worry about being interrupted at all - this means that yawing has been nerfed - I can no longer spin to win as it is too risky because noobs can hit me straight away and my fast attacks aren't even stopping their swings anymore.

 

[Hessu]

It really isn't that complicated.. I became a Master after six or so months. This patch is the noob patch, you are able to instantly counter even if you miss the PB; the interruption mechanic is essentially gone (when compared to previous patch) so you can attack freely and not worry about being interrupted at all - this means that yawing has been nerfed - I can no longer spin to win as it is too risky because noobs can hit me straight away and my fast attacks aren't even stopping their swings anymore.

You can't attack freely if your opponent knows how to interrupt. And yawing certainly has not been nerfed, it helps with interrupting as well since it makes your swings faster

 

[noel]

You can't attack freely if your opponent knows how to interrupt. And yawing certainly has not been nerfed, it helps with interrupting as well since it makes your swings faster

yeah i think this dude is playing another patch lol

 

[Callum]

You can't attack freely if your opponent knows how to interrupt. And yawing certainly has not been nerfed, it helps with interrupting as well since it makes your swings faster

As someone who used to abuse interruptions in the previous patch, I can tell you that they are more difficult to perform. It would seem that the window to interrupt has been greatly decreased, and as such you see it a lot less. The only time I see an interrupt happen is when someone tries to start an attack right before they are hit. If this is happening to you, you need to work on your timing and spacing, and don't try to start up a swing while you are being combo'd.

You will see interrupts a lot if you use the Cyan style, and I believe that is how Cyan is meant to be played - constant interrupts - to make up for its lackluster damage.

Combat has been simplified this patch, and I find it hard to believe that people are having trouble with it.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

The current system to me felt the best it's been in a long time. I've had genuine fun dueling. Hits carry impact and consequence and PB is slightly less of a mystery with the indicator as you can learn the actual PB regions rather than going off of hear-say. There's now a lot of fun in mastering perfect blocking.

To make dueling more fun, I'd wish to see the dueling system focus more on the animations and how they interact with each other in the future. Builds like RC1 and B17 had an awesome flow to them. Animations felt fluid and players could steal turns more intuitively.

Juicy and meaningful animation interactions to me are the bread and butter of a good fighting game. Clear-cut frame advantages and disadvantages make for a more intricate system.

 

[PuNk]

As someone who used to abuse interruptions in the previous patch, I can tell you that they are more difficult to perform. It would seem that the window to interrupt has been greatly decreased, and as such you see it a lot less. The only time I see an interrupt happen is when someone tries to start an attack right before they are hit. If this is happening to you, you need to work on your timing and spacing, and don't try to start up a swing while you are being combo'd.

You will see interrupts a lot if you use the Cyan style, and I believe that is how Cyan is meant to be played - constant interrupts - to make up for its lackluster damage.

Combat has been simplified this patch, and I find it hard to believe that people are having trouble with it.

It's not about that at all. We are talking about miliseconds here, no one can go thinking about such small windows regarding counters and not go crazy in the current state of dueling. The biggest problem with current "countering" is that you can get interrupted and drained mid your own combo without the opponent even PBlocking if they yaw it fast enough. The system is basically forcing you to shake your mouse like a retard and run around to avoid being interrupted like that, and we all know how gay that is.
Just try AD or D counter with yellow during the opponent's chain. It's ridicilous, unfair and takes no skill while it gives a heavy reward. Not only is it easy for heavy abusers to win against more skilled opponents, it also slowly impacts the rest of us that are aware of it aswell. I start noticing myself doing it aswell often and it's annoying the crap out of me.

 

[RogueWookiee]

Practice practice practice. All great players started somewhere most were new and didnt even know how to swing a blade. The point is it all requires a shit ton of practice. And yeah the younger days of movie battles dueling system was much simpler. But it can get very complex at times in movie battles. If you want to improve and stop losing and sobbing on these forums do yourself a favor read a saber guide, get a master, train yourself using all the tips you learn. And eventually your progress will start to skyrocket. Try finding people who can help you out and correct you. Just ask. Thats how i got better at dueling. Good luck.

 

[RogueWookiee]

Also yeah i agree with you that the developers should keep there saber system and stop changing things and adding new shit just keep it normal. The problem with that is every new update brings things that can be nerfed and fixed. Developers often make mistakes and then they have to pick up for it in the next update and the next update. And even new glitches appear out of nowhere which you guessed it, they have to fix it again! Its just reality but some updates can make the game better. We don't know possibly the next update can be better than this 1.5.1.1 We will see in time.

 

[RogueWookiee]

By the way yawing is made to make your swings harder to pb. If your getting killed to much your overdoing it a lot mate. Keep your rhythm smooth. Im not gonna go out ape shit yawing the shit out of my mouse.

 

[RogueWookiee]

I can't play Jedi or Sith anymore, i simply can't outduel anyone. ill give a few examples.

I really dislike Yawning. takes the fun out of the game.

You cant block if you yawn, you dont see what your opponent is doing, moving your camera so much and so fast is hard on the eyes, at least for some, me included.

if your opponent yawns, good luck blocking it.

having saber duels be so complicated is not good for the game in my opinion, sure high skill ceiling is good, i like when a game has something to be better at, but this is too much, you can't learn from your mistakes, you can't learn from your opponents.

I've been dueling for the past 2 days trying to understand this system, its impossible to beat someone who knows all this and is good at this, who uses dual sabers. i have no idea what they are doing, i have no idea how to defend myself, i have no idea how to even attack them. i try interrupt, i try to block, i try to run, i try everything. I beat him 3 times in a row. How? i don't even know what i did.

This is whats wrong with dueling. you can't learn from duels. you don't know what the other person does that makes you suffer BP damage.


I feel like the system needs to be toned down to something more simple. More complicated doesn't always mean better, you can be good at doing something simple better than others. By no means i want the skill in dueling to go down, but at least have it be doable by newer players who dont have to spend hundreds of hours just to understand what the dueling system even is. i played about 300 hours combined in the game and i just now know what Yawning or Interrupting is. and the System updates and changes every few months.

Its better to keep it at one point and just improve on it, There is just so much to dueling its insanely complicated.

Holding down Mouse to attack and Clicking and blocking afterwards (swing blocking) is just kinda broken. you can never slap someone who is just perfect at this. you can never stop them from attacking and you will always get slapped if you simply Can't swing block as good as them.

there is no alternative way to beat someone in a duel. its just so frustrating. when i first played the mod dueling was way more simple, and i actually could beat people in duels, i had a chance to beat some good duelists, maybe even slightly. now its just impossible.

But ya gotta understand that when it comes down to swingblocking not all of there combos are swingblocks. Its how you know your opponet and predict exactly when you know they could slap thats when it is goos to swing block.

 

[RogueWookiee]

what annoys me about dueling in general is that it is so unintuitive. With everything else you can just play normally and you will learn how to do shit effectively eventually, for dueling you have to read fucking tutorials and have mentors and shit which is boring as hell and just seems like a huge waste of time

No one wants it but for people who love the system just dedicate hours of tutorials and mentors. They then learn aspects and pretty much thats the only way. Yet again this modern dueling system is not as simple as it was :/ Big waste of time but sometimes it could get you better at the system. All comes down to how much you practice. Yeah its pretty damn boring lol.

 

[RogueWookiee]

I can't play Jedi or Sith anymore, i simply can't outduel anyone. ill give a few examples.

I really dislike Yawning. takes the fun out of the game.

You cant block if you yawn, you dont see what your opponent is doing, moving your camera so much and so fast is hard on the eyes, at least for some, me included.

if your opponent yawns, good luck blocking it.

having saber duels be so complicated is not good for the game in my opinion, sure high skill ceiling is good, i like when a game has something to be better at, but this is too much, you can't learn from your mistakes, you can't learn from your opponents.

I've been dueling for the past 2 days trying to understand this system, its impossible to beat someone who knows all this and is good at this, who uses dual sabers. i have no idea what they are doing, i have no idea how to defend myself, i have no idea how to even attack them. i try interrupt, i try to block, i try to run, i try everything. I beat him 3 times in a row. How? i don't even know what i did.

This is whats wrong with dueling. you can't learn from duels. you don't know what the other person does that makes you suffer BP damage.


I feel like the system needs to be toned down to something more simple. More complicated doesn't always mean better, you can be good at doing something simple better than others. By no means i want the skill in dueling to go down, but at least have it be doable by newer players who dont have to spend hundreds of hours just to understand what the dueling system even is. i played about 300 hours combined in the game and i just now know what Yawning or Interrupting is. and the System updates and changes every few months.

Its better to keep it at one point and just improve on it, There is just so much to dueling its insanely complicated.

Holding down Mouse to attack and Clicking and blocking afterwards (swing blocking) is just kinda broken. you can never slap someone who is just perfect at this. you can never stop them from attacking and you will always get slapped if you simply Can't swing block as good as them.

there is no alternative way to beat someone in a duel. its just so frustrating. when i first played the mod dueling was way more simple, and i actually could beat people in duels, i had a chance to beat some good duelists, maybe even slightly. now its just impossible.

But hey you don't have to be a good jedi to have fun. Look at the bright side you could lame, you could teamkill timewaste sneak into a tournament and lame the shit out of anyone than run.... Then get banned but who gives a shit go to the next server and the next one do the same shit and laugh it all out. The game is yours to play you can even make a whole youtube channel out of this shit. Just have a good time.

 

[RealGeorgeLucas]

Idk, the lightsaber system is on a unsteady balance as it is and while I agree that it should be made a bit more accessible to new players while still having the ability to wreck anyone in the server if you’re good enough, I don’t know if the mb2 team can do it. Id look towards other examples from other games to know how to do this. Example, soldier from tf2. He is very accessible for new players while still having a very high skill ceiling. That being said though you’d also have to create good counters. Like i said, the team is already trying to keep a very delicate balance so i doubt they’ll do anything crazy