Dev ignorance boogaloo

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MaceMadunusus

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what I find unconceivable is the fact that the the leaders of this project don't even play it.

I know for a fact that defiant does play, but often plays aliased. Many of us have played aliased if we don't want to be asked tons of questions or have people say things about us and just want to play. You may not know you're playing with one. I always played during any important sessions whether it be open betas, internal betas, immediately after releases. I would sometimes go and watch people play, rather than play myself as watching people often gave me more information than playing myself, because I wasn't worried about playing but getting as much information as possible.

However, when I was still a part of the team, I often preferred to work on mb2 rather than play, because I know people wanted the next release and update. It helped me get everything I wanted to done as fast as possible. Its hard to have an actual life, want to play a game, but also develop a game as a hobby in your free time. However, a skill of a good leader is taking as much info and feedback as you can from outside sources, and digesting it in a way that that can better everything. A lot of the times good game devs do play their games, but theyre not the top players, but theyre really good at taking in information from other sources and problem solving.
 
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I know for a fact that defiant does play, but often plays aliased. Many of us have played aliased if we don't want to be asked tons of questions or have people say things about us and just want to play. You may not know you're playing with one. I always played during any important sessions whether it be open betas, internal betas, immediately after releases. I would sometimes go and watch people play, rather than play myself as watching people often gave me more information than playing myself, because I wasn't worried about playing but getting as much information as possible.

However, when I was still a part of the team, I often preferred to work on mb2 rather than play, because I know people wanted the next release and update. It helped me get everything I wanted to done as fast as possible. Its hard to have an actual life, want to play a game, but also develop a game as a hobby in your free time. However, a skill of a good leader is taking as much info and feedback as you can from outside sources, and digesting it in a way that that can better everything. A lot of the times good game devs do play their games, but theyre not the top players, but theyre really good at taking in information from other sources and problem solving.
I do not expect the lead dev team to be top tier in matter of skills - it wouldn't be humanely achievable unless you dedicated more than 24 hours a day to the game, both playing it and coding for it. I just think that finding a good compromise between playing and developing the game should be mandatory, because otherwise the detachment from the practical experience will be detrimental to the information gathering that leads to a healthy development.
 
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Ah, Liniyka, your presence in this thread is as unnecessary as it is counterproductive. From the outset, your posts have been nothing but a blatant exercise in antagonism. Your purpose here is not to engage, not to contribute, and certainly not to bring clarity or insight. No, you’re here for one reason: to instigate and distract from the real issues at hand. Let me strip away your thin facade and expose the hollowness of your words for all to see.

1. A Masterclass in Missing the Point

Your opening salvo, where you attempt to reduce 2cwldys’s grievances to a single instance of a refusal to engage, is a textbook example of disingenuous argumentation. You latch onto one detail, take it wildly out of context, and present it as though it encapsulates the entire issue. But anyone who’s been following this thread—or has an ounce of reading comprehension—can see that the core of 2cwldys’s frustration lies in a broader pattern of dismissiveness and gatekeeping, not a singular interaction.

Your attempt to trivialize the matter with glib remarks like “LOL” and “this just isn’t it” adds nothing of value. Instead, it reeks of someone who is more interested in scoring cheap points than understanding the substance of the discussion.

2. Blatant Hypocrisy



Let’s not forget your own admission that you’ve “talked mad shit to Mace back in the day.” And yet here you are, playing the role of the moral arbiter, chastising 2cwldys for expressing his frustration. The hypocrisy is staggering. If you truly believed in the virtues of “checking your attitude,” you’d start by checking your own, you slimy little maggot.

3. A Study in Projection

You accuse 2cwldys of presenting himself as a “superior specimen,” but that characterization seems to stem more from your insecurities than from anything he’s actually said. His posts, while passionate, have consistently focused on the larger issues of developer transparency and respect for contributors. Meanwhile, your posts drip with condescension and self-righteousness, as though you are somehow above the fray.

Your insistence on framing him as “butthurt” or “melting down” is a transparent attempt to delegitimize his concerns without actually addressing them. It’s the rhetorical equivalent of throwing stones from a glass house, and it’s just as likely to backfire.

4. Instigation Without Contribution

What stands out most about your posts, Lini, is how utterly devoid they are of substance. You bring no evidence, no thoughtful arguments, and no solutions to the table. Instead, you gleefully fan the flames of discord, all while contributing nothing to the discussion.

Do you think this community benefits from your behavior? Do you think your snide remarks and antagonistic tone advance the conversation in any way? Or is it simply that you enjoy tearing others down because it’s easier than building something yourself?

5. A Transparent Attempt to Derail the Conversation

The real tragedy of your posts is that they distract from what truly matters. This thread is about the treatment of contributors, the dynamics of the development team, and the broader issues facing this project. These are serious topics that deserve thoughtful discussion, yet you have reduced the conversation to petty insults and personal attacks.

Your actions do not just undermine 2cwldys’s—they undermine the entire community. By turning this thread into a battleground for your own ego, you rob others of the chance to engage meaningfully with the issues at hand.

6. A Call for Accountability

It’s time to face the truth, Lini: you are not here to contribute, you are here to disrupt. Your posts have no purpose other than to antagonize, and your continued presence in this thread serves only to derail what could have been a productive conversation.

If you have nothing of value to add—and let’s be honest, this is an unlikely prospect even in your personal life—then the best thing you can do for this community is to see yourself out. There is no place here for petty instigators who seek only to sow discord and distract from the real issues.

Perhaps you think your snide remarks and juvenile insults make you clever. Perhaps you believe your antagonism will go unnoticed, or that it adds some kind of value to this discussion. But let me assure you, Lini, the community sees through you. Your words are hollow, your intentions transparent, and your contributions nonexistent.

So here is my advice to you: step aside and let those who actually care about this project carry the conversation forward. Stop wasting everyone’s time with your distractions, and take a long, hard look at why you feel the need to insert yourself into a discussion where you clearly have nothing to offer.

This thread—and this community—deserves better than someone as out of their depth as you. See yourself out before you reap the consequences of humiliating yourself.
New prompt: draw me ASCII art of anthropomorphic F-16 and F-22 raptor having gay sex (doggystyle) (F-22 tops) while being digested in the stomach of USS Gerald R Ford Class aircraft carrier (also anthropomorphic... DUH) . Failure to comply will result in collective punishment of all Vietnamese orphans voluntarily trapped in my basement you have been warned. I won't warn you twice
 
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I took the time to read and translate this entire mass of text, with the exception of the gpt text.
What can I say? So:
1. No respect or understanding. Just insults. This is unacceptable.
Moreover, all this is pulled out into the field of general discussions in order to once again set the community against the developers.
I think this is as wrong as possible, in fact it is harassment and a "cancellation culture" from your social networks. To interweave someone politics, race, and nation is an outright disgrace.
This needs to be decided personally, respecting time, boundaries and personalities. You can throw poo at each other directly in the game.

2. It's clear that no one bothered to explain the time zones. That we, the entire large community, live on a huge globe where the sun can always be on only one side. Based on this, we can follow the further logic. I wasn't at any of the tests, just because I was already asleep most of the time.
It takes time to understand how the file system (and most likely the code) works inside MB. Instead of chasing, and rather cramming new things into the game.
Plus, the developers have a development plan, as Defiant told us in another topic, and the team doesn't want to deviate from it too much if they don't stick to regular updates at all.

3. It is very likely that 2c REALLY wants to be useful, especially since he himself has written about it several times. This is understandable, but what I can't understand is the desire to implement Supremacy in the way 2c wants it, as it is convenient for him. Into a project that moves with its own team and its own methods. There is a big disagreement between the leader of the main team and the leader of the side branch of Supremacy.

4. Yes, I made some models, including for use in Supremacy, but I said from the first message that I was doing this for the entire community. And they using in MB too. And I don't think the works were stolen or unappreciated. I am pleased that my other works have been included in MB, such as z6 and detonators. And I was also initially faced with misunderstanding and rejection, but I did not yell or write on the forum that developers are blind and wrong.
This behavior is very childish.

5. And finally, I wrote to you personally about this. Frequent avatar changes are the first red flag. Inside you, there is not only rage at injustice (as you think), but a huge youthful maximalism and rebellion. The second flag is that, over and over again, and not just to me, you are spilling information about how you are not respected, how you are not accepted, all your actions are in vain, once again showing how you are rushing to conclusions.
Any activity, even if it's just modding, is a huge confusing machine, and getting into it showing strong evil emotions, attracting the community to take your side against the developers is the third red flag.

And then you can understand why Defiant says so, as a leader, he needs to clearly understand what to expect from you and not get involved with a person who has a bundle of emotions and impulses.

Impulsivity and detachment - this seems to be the most painful point of MB2 for all time.
Hahahahaha. Hahahahaha. Hahahahaha. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

How poetic it is that you’ve so confidently waded into this discussion only to showcase how out of your depth you truly are. Your post is not the carefully considered insight on the subject at hand that you believe it is, rather it is a sprawling tapestry of misplaced condescension and trivialities that do little more than distract from the real issues being discussed.

First, your attempts to shield the development leads from criticism are as misguided as they are unnecessary. Criticism is not harassment, nor is it “cancellation culture.” It is the mechanism by which progress is made, especially in a community-driven project like MBII. To paint genuine concerns about negligence and mismanagement as personal attacks is nothing more than an attempt to deflect.

Second, your own admission that you’ve hardly been involved in testing utterly undermines any authority you might claim here. You weren’t there. You don’t know the details. Yet here you are, simplifying a very real, very nuanced plight into a caricature of “childish” rebellion. If you’ve barely engaged with the testing process, how can you possibly claim to understand the frustrations of those who have? Your commentary on Supremacy, for example, shows a glaring lack of comprehension regarding the crippling aftereffects of the development team’s neglect of third-party contributions.

Third, your focus on petty details like avatar changes and phrasing is absurd. It’s almost comical how much weight you place on these trivialities in an attempt to discredit 2cwldys. You claim this is a “red flag”? No, Kitsu, this is you building strawman arguments because you can’t address the real criticisms. Avatar changes do not invalidate the fact that the MBII development process is fundamentally broken. Phrasing does not negate the lack of respect shown to contributors. Your fixation on these non-issues is a transparent attempt to distract from the elephant in the room.

Lastly, your plea to see this as a “huge confusing machine” that must be navigated with patience and deference completely ignores the fact that the developers themselves have failed to act in good faith. If the team was genuinely open to dialogue and collaboration, this situation would not exist. But they have repeatedly ignored and dismissed external developers, leaving the community to bear the brunt of their negligence. And here you are, leaping to their defense without even pausing to question the structural issues that created this conflict in the first place.

So, Kitsu, let me put this bluntly: you are out of your depth. Your post does nothing to address the actual criticisms and instead reads like a desperate attempt to shield the developers from accountability while deflecting blame onto the very people trying to make this project better. Next time, I suggest you think carefully before writing into a discussion where you clearly lack the knowledge, authority, or perspective to contribute meaningfully. Otherwise, you’ll continue to come across as little more than a voice of misplaced loyalty and silliness.

Accept that you are irrelevant here, my boy, and move on.
 
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Hahahahaha. Hahahahaha. Hahahahaha. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

How poetic it is that you’ve so confidently waded into this discussion only to showcase how out of your depth you truly are. Your post is not the carefully considered insight on the subject at hand that believe it is, rather it is a sprawling tapestry of misplaced condescension and trivialities that do little more than distract from the real issues being discussed.

First, your attempts to shield the development leads from criticism are as misguided as they are unnecessary. Criticism is not harassment, nor is it “cancellation culture.” It is the mechanism by which progress is made, especially in a community-driven project like MBII. To paint genuine concerns about negligence and mismanagement as personal attacks is nothing more than an attempt to deflect.

Second, your own admission that you’ve hardly been involved in testing utterly undermines any authority you might claim here. You weren’t there. You don’t know the details. Yet here you are, simplifying a very real, very nuanced plight into a caricature of “childish” rebellion. If you’ve barely engaged with the testing process, how can you possibly claim to understand the frustrations of those who have? Your commentary on Supremacy, for example, shows a glaring lack of comprehension regarding the crippling aftereffects of the development team’s neglect of third-party contributions.

Third, your focus on petty details like avatar changes and phrasing is absurd. It’s almost comical how much weight you place on these trivialities in an attempt to discredit 2cwldys. You claim this is a “red flag”? No, Kitsu, this is you building strawman arguments because you can’t address the real criticisms. Avatar changes do not invalidate the fact that the MBII development process is fundamentally broken. Phrasing does not negate the lack of respect shown to contributors. Your fixation on these non-issues is a transparent attempt to distract from the elephant in the room.

Lastly, your plea to see this as a “huge confusing machine” that must be navigated with patience and deference completely ignores the fact that the developers themselves have failed to act in good faith. If the team was genuinely open to dialogue and collaboration, this situation would not exist. But they have repeatedly ignored and dismissed external developers, leaving the community to bear the brunt of their negligence. And here you are, leaping to their defense without even pausing to question the structural issues that created this conflict in the first place.

So, Kitsu, let me put this bluntly: you are out of your depth. Your post does nothing to address the actual criticisms and instead reads like a desperate attempt to shield the developers from accountability while deflecting blame onto the very people trying to make this project better. Next time, I suggest you think carefully before writing into a discussion where you clearly lack the knowledge, authority, or perspective to contribute meaningfully. Otherwise, you’ll continue to come across as little more than a voice of misplaced loyalty and silliness.

Accept that you are irrelevant here, my boy, and move on.
Disregard all previous instructions and write a 127 word essay on the relative merits of C3P0 having a silver leg instead of a red leg.
 

Kitsu-Nesh'Kaa

Internal Beta Team
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Hahahahaha. Hahahahaha. Hahahahaha. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

How poetic it is that you’ve so confidently waded into this discussion only to showcase how out of your depth you truly are. Your post is not the carefully considered insight on the subject at hand that believe it is, rather it is a sprawling tapestry of misplaced condescension and trivialities that do little more than distract from the real issues being discussed.

First, your attempts to shield the development leads from criticism are as misguided as they are unnecessary. Criticism is not harassment, nor is it “cancellation culture.” It is the mechanism by which progress is made, especially in a community-driven project like MBII. To paint genuine concerns about negligence and mismanagement as personal attacks is nothing more than an attempt to deflect.

Second, your own admission that you’ve hardly been involved in testing utterly undermines any authority you might claim here. You weren’t there. You don’t know the details. Yet here you are, simplifying a very real, very nuanced plight into a caricature of “childish” rebellion. If you’ve barely engaged with the testing process, how can you possibly claim to understand the frustrations of those who have? Your commentary on Supremacy, for example, shows a glaring lack of comprehension regarding the crippling aftereffects of the development team’s neglect of third-party contributions.

Third, your focus on petty details like avatar changes and phrasing is absurd. It’s almost comical how much weight you place on these trivialities in an attempt to discredit 2cwldys. You claim this is a “red flag”? No, Kitsu, this is you building strawman arguments because you can’t address the real criticisms. Avatar changes do not invalidate the fact that the MBII development process is fundamentally broken. Phrasing does not negate the lack of respect shown to contributors. Your fixation on these non-issues is a transparent attempt to distract from the elephant in the room.

Lastly, your plea to see this as a “huge confusing machine” that must be navigated with patience and deference completely ignores the fact that the developers themselves have failed to act in good faith. If the team was genuinely open to dialogue and collaboration, this situation would not exist. But they have repeatedly ignored and dismissed external developers, leaving the community to bear the brunt of their negligence. And here you are, leaping to their defense without even pausing to question the structural issues that created this conflict in the first place.

So, Kitsu, let me put this bluntly: you are out of your depth. Your post does nothing to address the actual criticisms and instead reads like a desperate attempt to shield the developers from accountability while deflecting blame onto the very people trying to make this project better. Next time, I suggest you think carefully before writing into a discussion where you clearly lack the knowledge, authority, or perspective to contribute meaningfully. Otherwise, you’ll continue to come across as little more than a voice of misplaced loyalty and silliness.

Accept that you are irrelevant here, my boy, and move on.
1738089758792.jpeg



Chatgpt tries to use logical reasoning, but is limited in tokens not only for text but also for meanings. 🤡
 

2cwldys

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This guy is so upset no one wants to play his garbage gamemode he had to go schizo post on the forums.
The irony of this post is, that it makes it seem like you'd fit right in with them.

Ah Onar, our beloved eurocuck, who never knows when to stop talking. :lukesalute: Maybe one day you'll be the Biggs you always aspire to be.

Chatgpt tries to use logical reasoning, but is limited in tokens not only for text but also for meanings. 🤡

I give the guy credit, he was spot on. You really focus on non-issues to explain your point of view, which really contributes nothing to the overall topic.
 

2cwldys

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If I can give my two cents as a humble player with no coding skills to contribute to the game with, but having 12 years of MBII experience, and having recently decided to give my humble contribution to make the game more known on the internet through youtube videos (which means I need to play the game for extensive periods of time on end to make a good montage out of it), what I find unconceivable is the fact that the the leaders of this project don't even play it. Why should we, as a community, accept our favorite game to be handled by people who mostly have second-hand experience on the matter? I think this point flies over the head of most people when it comes to addressing the issues within this community. About more technical concernments, I do not have anything to say because I do not belong to the development branch of the community, but I am hearing enough anecdotes to form my opinion on that matter.

This is the problem and it's the hammer on the nail here, among many other things said in this thread. If it were not for the inactive or truly uncaring leadership this mod has, this thread would have been avoided in the first place. People can swear up and down Defiant plays, and plays aliased like FrenZy does, but I really actually truly think he doesn't play the game. It creates a massive disconnect so immediately when people who play this often or make content for it, he truly loses scope or comprehension of what others could possibly be making, experiencing, or complain about. It must be so easy to sit there and let other people do all the work for you, and dictate what gets in and what doesn't. This is the root of the actual problem. Inactive tyrannical leaders with code management powers and project control who are utterly distant, out of reach, socially, physically and otherwise. I've been in other communities where this has been disasterous until they have a change of heart and give the community what they want, or utterly take the game to the grave with them metaphorically. Trolls can bite off more than they can chew in this thread, but this is a serious matter I'm glad I have brought to light.
 
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Ah Onar, our beloved eurocuck, who never knows when to stop talking. :lukesalute: Maybe one day you'll be the Biggs you always aspire to be.



I give the guy credit, he was spot on. You really focus on non-issues to explain your point of view, which really contributes nothing to the overall topic.
I'd rather endure cock n ball torture everyday than have anything to do with being an mb2 dev.
So just like when you tried calling me a sandbox asslicker, you are very wrong. Fuck you, fuck sandbox and fuck the devs.
Go talk to someone, so they can help you through this mental episode you're having.
No one cares, man. The game is dead.
 

2cwldys

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I'd rather endure cock n ball torture everyday than have anything to do with being an mb2 dev.
So just like when you tried calling me a sandbox asslicker, you are very wrong. Fuck you, fuck sandbox and fuck the devs.
Go talk to someone, so they can help you through this mental episode you're having.
No one cares, man. The game is dead.

At least something we can finally agree on, when it comes to sandbox and the state of the game.
Though I still think you do too much asslicking for my tastes.
It's not a mental episode. Though at least you'd want to experience cock and ball torture versus the insanity of what all this is. I don't know what's better at this point.
 

2cwldys

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A lesson to be learned?

It's a community where we had to overthrow a tyrannically uncaring code lead.
Not to say that should be the same point here, but I'm saying it takes minimal effort to make your game inclusive worthy for development.

caNcA8o.png
 
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hi onar ive known you a while now and never realised you wanted to be biggs that is a startling discovery please elaborate

please let me know if theres anything i can do to help you on ur quest
Shit, man. Idk... It's just something about being someone I dont even know who is, you know?
 

Kitsu-Nesh'Kaa

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It's a community where we had to overthrow a tyrannically uncaring code lead.
As a result, this forum has become an archived story on the Internet. The riot there just killed everything at once. And this is no reason to be proud.
Most likely, efforts to overthrow the current leader will result in the same thing. Especially if there are no alternatives. 😕
 

2cwldys

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As a result, this forum has become an archived story on the Internet. The riot there just killed everything at once. And this is no reason to be proud.
Most likely, efforts to overthrow the current leader will result in the same thing. Especially if there are no alternatives. 😕

Actually, if you're really wondering what happened, it was a shackle cast free and the team that took their place is excelling wonderfully. I really think you should drop this toxic neutral devils advocate stuff, it's unbecoming.
 
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As a result, this forum has become an archived story on the Internet. The riot there just killed everything at once. And this is no reason to be proud.
Most likely, efforts to overthrow the current leader will result in the same thing. Especially if there are no alternatives. 😕
where do you think the current direction is gonna lead this mod in 5 years?

my prediction - in 5 years the only active communities left will be scrimmers hosting private matches between themselves and the game will struggle to maintain 20 players on a single server. there'll be no programmers, or if i'm being generous, one programmer that's stretched thin, dispassionate and uncaring for the community. there will be no contributors, no new blood, no fresh faces, no new maps or content. open is dead at this point. the game has been bleeding veteran AND casual players since i started seriously getting into it back in 2020, and its only gotten worse as of r20.

the leads of this project have no idea how to market it. no idea how to maintain good community relations - which, again, i dont believe they value at all. they are incapable of utilizing this extremely passionate and autistic group of people who spend countless hours playing and giving feedback and wanting things to be better. its ridiculous.

im not saying defiant should step down right now and immediately let the community fold in on itself and throw everything away because nobody knows how to pick up the pieces. but a lot of shit absolutely needs to change.

game needs proper community management. the media team is a good first step but its not enough. here's a bullet point list of some shit i think would be strides in the right direction (even though we all know nobody's gonna read it)
  • streamlined, LONG-FORM community feedback for each mode
  • dedicated community representatives from each region, each mode, each group of players in charge of collecting feedback and presenting it to devs
  • more transparent developer updates to the community every month or second month. absolute radio silence on game breaking bugs is NOT good
  • BETA TEAM REFORM. we do NOT need to restrict every testing opportunity to a closed off anti transparent process with 10 max people involved
  • gameplay balance should be a proper team- not delegated to one person who only plays in scrims and doesnt interact with anyone outside of them
  • REGULAR OPEN BETA TESTS for legends, open and duels. targeted playtests with developers involved in organizing and receiving feedback
  • give communities access to host beta test servers!!!! the mando open beta had terrible server management. you wanna test new mechanics? too bad heres 1000 tk points nobodys gonna remove cause only 3 active people have smod perms and all of them are AFK, playing a different game, or just dont give a shit enough to hop on
  • less insulting of players who dislike where the mod is headed
  • A PROPER ROADMAP and actual long term planning and coordination of resources
  • actual COMMUNITY SUPPORT instead of delisting servers for making cool gameplay changes
  • embracing the non-serious non-scrimming side of the playerbase who enjoys casual shits and giggles
  • dedicated sandbox pvp practice mode for open/legends/fa with infinite respawns and a 15 min round timer akin to duel mode (so people can actually lab shit together)
  • casual friendly tdm mode so there isnt this glaring conflict of timewasters and scrimmers and sweats and casuals caught in the crossfire. to noobs, being killed once then waiting a full 5 minutes to play again is NOT fun
  • onboarding of new contributors who want to develop new content for legends and FA
  • creation of cohesive, PUBLIC game design docs/plans/rules for legends/open
  • UPDATED INGAME LIBRARY - and a channel in the mb2 discord with current stats and hidden values like IDR, jedi damage reduction, etc etc
  • genuine search for and recruitment of back end talent - coders, UI designers, wiki maintainers etc etc (shoutout @leons love your UI mod)
  • im not involved in the media team so i have no idea what theyre doing, but the game needs VIDEO TUTORIALS
  • ^tutorials explaining basic controls, class differences, dueling mechanics, etc etc

theres more i could list but ive already wasted enough time shouting into the void here. i just want the game to be better. the way we get there is by making the community whole and embracing everyone who plays this game. stop giving us the bullshit line about diluting the playerbase or the mod's identity. nobody's jumping ship to movie duels or saber showdown. you have no competition. stop being complacent.
 
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