Dev ignorance boogaloo

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2cwldys

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This is my dire warning to anyone who wants to join the MBII team and contribute any of their creative energy or efforts. Simply, don't. Take the lesson from someone who has spent a year of free past time to give back to this game. They don't value you. They don't care about any new content. They don't frankly even care about what happens to their game, let's be honest.

IF you're interested in giving anything to this game, like FA dev. Don't. MaceMadunsus and Defiant's view is that they aren't devs and shouldn't get the respect thereof. Also any work you add they aren't at liberty to remove if you want it removed from the game.

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Seriously, anything you make despite your time and effort invested in it, it is completely at their whim to control and even if you don't want the content in the game they remove your collaborator status on GitHub and aren't interested in removing anything you make when you want it taken down. The moment you want to take things down they remove your ability to add things as well. So my advice? Don't make anything for this game with the mindset anything you make is yours. Don't fall in my pit trap of spending a year+ learning and apprenticing to dev for this mod for tyrannical shitheads to be completely impassionate with their game, other creatives, and not value an ounce of your work.

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I can't stress enough how fragile the inside of the development for this mod is. If there is to be a mod left soon, it won't be for very long. People think I'm taking advantage of infrastructure, but Defiant is simply proving me right. There is a reason I haven't publicly submitted the work for my gamemode, as people want me to. The behavior of team members like Defiant proves that anything you make for this team, the value of any of your efforts is pointless. Despite someone like him who doesn't even play the game, let alone interact or even message people, have the tools and ability to shut down anything and anyone's work just because they feel like it. They never invite you to the dev chats where these "serious talks" are happening to discuss what happens with your OWN work like you don't exist. This is extremely disasterous behavior for moviebattles as we know it, destroying the marketplace of free ideas, ignoring creatives, and denying creative implements.

I envy the trolls, casual players, and those who really don't have to go through this menacing headache. The dev bureaucracy hell behind the scenes is very unbecoming for a mod of this age. Too much infighting and misplaced value and worth of others. IF anything I can give as a moral of my personal story. Even if this may be your favorite game, don't fall in the pitfall of actually thinking you can pick up the tools and make fun experiences for other people, and the team follow common sense and actually implement it, because the MBII team actually hates fun they cannot control. They threaten to delist servers that make minor changes to make things fun. They are simply all about controlling your experience, and it is not a healthy outlook on the future of this mod. If you have any interest in picking up and learning these tools. Do it for yourself, no one else, and always think of third party solutions to include others in your work. The team is lead by a totally unemotional, narcissistic, obstinate, enigmatic, intentionally reserved, selectively speaking development lead that actually doesn't care about the future of your favorite game, or about the people that want to give back to it.


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In referendum, I'm in complete awe and shock that you can spend a year on any effort and work, and they really don't care about any of it. I envy people like Tempest, despite the shit people give him. After seven years of investment I don't blame him for leaving too. My intentions with this post is a wakeup call. The playerbase is already not happy with the MBII team, they don't listen to feedback. They change anything they want, and they're slowly becoming more and more unreachable and impossible to work with as the months prolong. Me and my freelance team of devs have created the most ultimate, intricate Moviebattles gamemode that anyone could have ever seen or dreamed of. Devs like unguided, john, and others have tested it. Players play from a third party medium and enjoy it. Dozens of players connect to the servers and cannot access the game because of the lack of files. The MBII team is robbing the playerbase of a feature rich experience due to their ignorance. I'm running out on options, and I'm just proving that you can do it. You don't have to listen to, or depend upon the Moviebattles team, and it is actually quite very easy to subvert their sociopathic narcissistic tendencies with this game and do your own thing. Making something popular and fun and any amount of censorship, banning, or delistment can't do anything to you. This is the only thing you can do while they destroy the rest of their game, and I'm bringing the harsh reality to you as a player in this thread. I don't mean to start this thread as a cycle of drama or another "Open is dead" thread, but rather as a rude awakening and a stern warning to players.

A lot of people don't care about what happens behind the scenes, but players should really start to be doing so. There is a lot of injustice going on surrounding creative energy and freedoms in this mod, which is the opposite of what this mod should be doing, and what made it popular to contribute to in the past, in the first place. They have lost their way, and with Spag and Mace and others leaving the team, it has emboldened Defiant to be comfortable with the game in the state it's in, and despite other's intense passion and creativity: If they didn't make it, If they can't slap their license on it and call it theirs. They don't want it. Anyone is smart to apply Creative Commons to any of your textassets you make, because the MBII team will misuse your rights, or not even consider them, when it comes to the legality. Which I find ironic considering how much they worry about the iron hammer of Disney or others coming down upon them, when it just creates a crazed level of cognitive dissonance and an echo chamber which eliminates any sort of passion on the inside. They have all this copyrighted content, powerbattles, metal gear solid, dragonball, aliens universe, and more, and if anyone was to copyright strike them by now, they would have. They use this obsession with copyright to shut down perfectly valid ideas, other's completed works, or concepts they are too unbothered to want to incorporate in their vision, and instead blatantly challenge them with no basis to work with. They actually use their concerns with legal to break down and browbeat anything they personally didn't make, or sanction being made. I'm serious, they're doing this by viewing my work as a threat to the already dead Open, and the hypocrisy needs to stop.

If anything I want to achieve with this thread, is to speed up the process of the "Creative Contributions" pack which Defiant claims is started, but in fact with verification from the inside, has not been started at all. I have been begging, pleading, and working with the team for months to integrate this work and it has been nothing but insanity, and I personally believe it is because of the unwarranted inaction, and happy naivety of the leader, that makes this all impossible. You can tell people all you want that it is coming, but it is filibuster at this point. Telling people what they want to hear while delivering nothing at all. I frankly think he doesn't care if it exists, or if it does any players a service. This mod is on it's death throes, and if this thread spearheads the topic of the CC pack then so be it. There needs to be a hub where players can create content and it get added, updated frequently, and not have to go through this madness ever again. It is totally uncalled for to revoke collaborator status with someone so determined to make content for your game. It's heinous, brings to light a lot of hypocrisy with this team and especially Defiant, and if the CC pack cannot be created as a product of this thread, this is my farewell address to the community as well as the result of the absolute state of integration for Supremacy into Moviebattles assets. There needs to be ABSOLUTE reform surrounding the state of contributions with this mod, and how developers view their hard working contributors, and it starts now.
 
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now this is a movie battle

in all seriousness, youre right that defiant's leadership has been pretty terrible for this community and it is possible for us to outgrow him and the platform we're shackled to.

from the outsider perspective, since i've started seriously getting into this game and being around the community, it's been a long road of successive failures. some Ws, but a ton of really noticeable L's. its clear that they dont value, and dont want to put any work into, cultivating the greatest resource at their disposal: community.

instead of meeting server owners at the middle, discussing their contributions in a positive light, positively recognizing and embracing people who contribute to the activity and life of this game, servers are delisted. people are insulted for contributing any feedback that isnt gargling you know who's nuts. "teams" are created within the official "team" that do nothing and have no communication and no input from the playerbase or developers. the community liaison team was a massive failure. why bother bringing on two notable, influential people within the playerbase that are well-liked and well-respected only to do absolutely nothing with it? why bump a content creator to dev status only to do nothing with it?

the effort required to do things right is so minimal in comparison to the effort expended to antagonize different portions of the playerbase and exert control over how people play the game. this project is dying. defiant is failing to grow the game in any positive manner and the "team" is collectively failing to onboard new developers, contributors and community figures to keep the game from dying.

the community is repeatedly told "you do not matter" and collectively, we put up with it cause theres no real competition.

movie battles 2 is not and will never be the next valorant, overwatch or counter strike. scrims are fun and its been a wild ride seeing the formation of the largest scrimming communities in NA and EU, but that is only one section of the playerbase. i dont mean to speak for anyone or admonish any communities' contributions, but scrims and tournaments alone arent growing this game. theyve had a great impact on the game and community, but in the journey to cater to and build the game around this singular format, everyone else is getting more and more fed up.

when legends dies, thats it. this game is fuckn done for. be grateful for what you have before it's gone.
 
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I have applied also to be a dev and not much communication has been said. I've been quite upset of some of the situation has been handled even past and present MB2 Devs who has left. I really do like MB2 and devoting my time to help other setup dedicated servers with mbiiez or troubleshoot.

I am someone who came from mainstream JKA from using mods like japp, JA+, japro.

Though I may have done some stupid things in my past, I still continue to help and listen to others feedback.
 
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MaceMadunusus

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NOOOO YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO REMOVE YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS unless...?


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Request. I have no legal power to do so after agreeing to the copyright agreement. Which is what is required to have stuff added to the game, which 2C would not agree to and wanted to act as his own outside dev team and license his content to the team. That isn't going to work if he ever leaves or abandons his project. We wouldn't be able to maintain it or keep it compatible. Which he just did so.....
 
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2cwldys

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Request. I have no legal power to do so after agreeing to the copyright agreement. Which is what is required to have stuff added to the game, which 2C would not agree to and wanted to act as his own outside dev team and license his content to the team. That isn't going to work if he ever leaves or abandons his project. We wouldn't be able to maintain it or keep it compatible. Which he just did so.....


OK so I am going to do some very serious fact checking here:

1) I have not once, or never, denied any license agreement. Defiant never provided me one, and matter of fact he barely even makes conversation with anyone to get any work done, and this is before the time period where he got sick which is perfectly excusable. I have logs where me and Defiant came to an actual agreement. Here is what is important to know, and it is the truth, and nothing but the truth. I agreed to allow limited access to source, which includes John and maybe one other. He didn't seem to have any problems with this.

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As you can see in this picture, no licensing agreement. Do you always act so gullible Mace and believe everything else people tell you to be true, while arguing in the face of the source speaker, when you could have believed me at face value?

2) The creative commons applied to the work is non negotiable. This does not exactly mean I am immediately in denial of the license agreement, if I were provided one in the first place, this would have probably been a lot different. Then you have team members like Lindsey and others who like to gossip instead of actually contributing something as meaningful members of this team, spreading misinformation like "I was afraid of paperwork" and "had a red carpet right before me." I was not provided any of the such.

3) A lot of these topics would have been common sense to address with you, if it were not for the constant belittlement and being explained to by a retired dev of how to handle my work, which is not the best way to handle a conversation, including also going ape shit in their DMs when they're trying to get you to test it like other developers have. Checkmate?

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If we want to get technical you are largely responsible for a lot of updates that pissed off open players before leaving, so for you to have any valid points in discussions of third party fa content is non negotiable, but oh that's right, you think people doing FA work aren't worthy of being recognized.

4) Defiant, I am convinced is uncapable of actually holding any reasonable conversation, within any timeframe that suggests that other people's creative works, time slots, and efforts actually have some value assigned to them. I am convinced he reads your messages but he never makes an attempt to address anything said. A lot of this would have been prevented if Defiant were simply capable, of doing conversation. A good developer lead is probably someone who is good at at least doing that, yes?

5) The issue of ports has been debunked by KhorneSyrup, who looked at the entire client repository, and deemed that the number of "ports" were under 10 ports, and was miniscule compared to the size of 3,000+ files, over 1000+ characters, and 600 siegeteams, and he deemed this as not a problem for integration. While the team in their infinite wisdom and nepotism, allow things like Powerbattles III on their patch notes, and allow content with all these ports and pop culture references. (STARES at umad Pack, movie game pack) I think I am safe by a long shot.

6) IF you were also capable of reading, instead of acting like Lindsey and jumping the gun and running with any evidence you claim to be true, I am NOT abandoning the project, but I am prepared to delete all my OTHER assets I have created in the past year for moviebattles, which is the top post of this thread and said in the case of not starting the Creative Contributions pack, that this would serve as my farewell address. I don't know if you know, but it's extremely tiring to work for a mod who literally does not care about you or your efforts. If my work is not being valued, why should I continue to do FA work for such an unappreciative team? Defiant wouldn't even let me remove my own work, and says we "Do not have the right to do that" but I thought I didn't sign any such agreements? Checkmate, again.

7) The reason why I am so anal about the clientized files, is that I see how you guys are treating the rest of the game. People also tried to steal the work in the earliest stages, and with a mixture of all of these things, I have been dead set in my decision to keep the files clientized. This game mode was built on player feedback, from every saturday, for more than a year. I let the players playing with me and part of the whole process help decide how the outcome of this mode will be, something you guys NEED to seriously take notes on, because you DO NOT listen to your players, at all. As well as prove it takes only one or two people to make a good gamemode, and doesn't require all the fingers to be in the pie. It isn't about being selfish and wanting to control the gamemode only for myself. If I'm being candid, the systems we use is so heavy, that expecting server owners to have the parity to run these modes, include throwing the closed source scripts at them, and all the files. It takes a lot of work to get all this working, and isn't a burden I think ordinary server owners need to run this mode. It's a unique mode, go to the servers to play it, it's that simple, and you guys have NO clue how well it will mix with PLANNED FEATURES TM. I'll also share my policies here because I also want to lead by example, and all of this makes it unpopular with the team IG. If the team were actually focused on seeing the good in everything put forward, I think you guys will understand this will be a fun mode that benefits ALL especially new players, if you guys can spare your brainless half-truths for reading what I have to say for the moment:

These rules apply to the game server, and discord where applicable.

1. Excessive racial slurs, offensive phobias, targeted harassment or trolling, heated political debate, and grotesque behaviors are not allowed. They may be tolerated without intervention for a time, but if this becomes an issue for the players the staff are allowed to take action with temporary solutions. Simply be nice and respectful to other players.

2. Any game breaking bugs, exploits, and the incentivized perpetuation of them is not tolerated. Report any and all supremacy or movie battles related bugs in the proper channels.

3. Excessive, intentional team killing is not tolerated.

4. Timewasters, and AFK players will be force spectated.

5. Excessive drama in chat will be asked for both sides to tone it down. Filling the chat space on official servers with unwanted drama will not be tolerated, and temporary solutions may be enacted.

6. Advertisement & recruitment is allowed, for clans and other communities. Leeching players from the server, to seed others, however is not.

All of these rules are to help bring about a comfortable environment surrounding the gamemode and it’s content, for the ease of access to all MBII players. Rules may be changed or abridged at any given time. All staff are well within their rights to exercise their abilities against you. All permanent solutions may be appealed in the discord in the appeal forum. The goal for this community is to lead by example, and lean towards shipping fun gameplay experiences.

  1. No members of staff are allowed to permaban at any given time.
  2. All staff must discuss permanent solutions to consistent problems, including permamutes and permanent bans for problematic players; and handle them as a team.
  3. All server mods will have access to SMOD, higher officials will be granted RCON.
  4. All server mods are required to kick, tempban, and temp mute as temporary solutions.
  5. All players are to have unattested access to the gamemode and servers. Any personal feuds or quarrels are asked to be settled outside of the game servers.
  6. No one is above the rules, and everyone is asked to follow them and are subject to them.
  7. Two verbal warnings must be given, before permamuting is applied to an IP, with group consensus.
 
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MaceMadunusus

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The defiant screenshot clearly shows that a copyright agreement would need to be in place, and that your content would need to be a part of the main public or private repos. Not your own. It does not show what you say it shows. Having a creative commons license with us, while also requiring us to create systems to obfuscate the files and dump coding resources into your project, completely conflicts with the two things.

3) A lot of these topics would have been common sense to address with you, if it were not for the constant belittlement and being explained to by a retired dev of how to handle my work, which is not the best way to handle a conversation, including also going ape shit in their DMs when they're trying to get you to test it like other developers have. Checkmate?

See this is part of the problem, you don't share surrounding context. None of the conversation that started at 2am, and ended at 11:37am my time, you take a screenshot of one comment at 11:03am. I was trying to calm you down the entire conversation and see the logic and reasoning behind why things happen and how they do. I got frustrated when you wouldn't even take your own words to mean anything, and I rejoined discord and found that you were lying to me about the sequence of events by simply reading back in chats. You're the one that messaged me, someone who wasn't actively a part of the team, to rant about the team at 2 in the morning.

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You wanted to show me your work, but I never contested that your gameplay work was good, just that certain features were not in the game yet, and by your own admission in this screenshot that is what "john wants to make next" thus unfinished. It was something that was discussed when I was in voice as to what would be needed to be a fully polished part of the official build.
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How am I supposed to test something that doesn't contain my only contention point, and my reason for it to be ready for addition to the mod in an official capacity? That doesn't even make sense dude.

After talking with you for hours, I got frustrated because I was simply using your own words, where you say john still has stuff to do, to combat the idea that it was ready for full release. You were fighting me for no reason, for simply acknowledging that fact. Like how does this even make logical sense? How can you not see how frustrating it is to have such a conversation with someone.

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If there's still things to do, it = not finished. It is a very simple equation.
 
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2cwldys

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IDK bro it's a whole lot of not showing me a copyright agreement going on there. You're also making yourself look like an ass, because you literally admit that FA developers should not become developers. I'm sorry but I'm a second class user here telling you will need to do better than that to contrast your points.

As for testing my work, you had a schizo autistic meltdown in my PMs and I had to count a number of 5 times, asking if you actually wanted to test my work, but instead I got incoherent babble. You're really great at telling people they're twisting your words when they're not going to accept that level of pathetic gaslighting.

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Let's be honest, you had a fit because I said the systems we have in place were good while you deemed them not sufficient, and required UI elements. YOU ragequitted the team, and "retired" yet you're always able to talk mad shit on the forum to others, it's almost like you didn't retire and that's a bit pathetic. How are you in any position to determine how these features will go, when you retired from the team after dropping a bombshell of unpopular open releases, and other people are literally completing the work before your eyes, if it were not for me or John the prospects of what you wanted for 13 years would not exist. SO accept what you get and not all beggers can be choosers,
 

MaceMadunusus

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Myabe im a silly ignorant boy, but why does a free mod with 0 original concepts (still very well executed, no shade) need a Copyright contract?

It isn't the concepts that are being copyrighted. It is there so that the MB team and mod has the ability to use any content submitted to us as a developer into the future without fear of it being yanked out from under the mod because of an emotional disagreement like we have had in the past. You're making an agreement that the Movie Battles 2 mod legally can use your work/content.
 

2cwldys

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It isn't the concepts that are being copyrighted. It is there so that the MB team and mod has the ability to use any content submitted to us as a developer into the future without fear of it being yanked out from under the mod because of an emotional disagreement like we have had in the past. You're making an agreement that the Movie Battles 2 mod legally can use your work/content.

It's funny you mention that, and I never signed one agreement and yet I can't remove my own work. It's nothing of an emotional disagreement, it's mistreatment. I am trying to remove all my other FA work because I am feeling like I'm not being valued. The way you're expressing yourself in this thread isn't winning you guys any brownie points.
 

MaceMadunusus

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As for testing my work, you had a schizo autistic meltdown in my PMs and I had to count a number of 5 times, asking if you actually wanted to test my work, but instead I got incoherent babble. You're really great at telling people they're twisting your words when they're not going to accept that level of pathetic gaslighting.

I'm really not sure how any of what I said during that could be considered that, but thanks for being a gigantic asshole. I am more than willing to share the entire conversation rather than single snippets and the community can decide who is the one with incoherent babble.

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Once again, here is what is before your most recent screenshot. I'm not sure how that is anything close to a "schizo autistic meltdown" but whatever you say. You're clearly the expert.
 

2cwldys

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How am I supposed to test something that doesn't contain my only contention point, and my reason for it to be ready for addition to the mod in an official capacity? That doesn't even make sense dude.

Right, this is the core of my problem here with you. You think you're too good to test anything other people make, and because it doesn't hold up to your contention point you won't test it. I'm so glad you retired, or you aren't retired? IDK you're a weird dude. You'll only get in the way so it's best you remain retired or stick to making maps, honestly you have no room to be talking on other people's FAs you have no involvement in. You're just proving the point here I'm trying to make.
 

2cwldys

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Surprisingly, me, as a member of the beta tester team, who has signed a NDA, will willfully redact information we're not supposed to share about future releases, yet you keep doing that? When are you going to stop doing that?
 

MaceMadunusus

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Right, this is the core of my problem here with you. You think you're too good to test anything other people make, and because it doesn't hold up to your contention point you won't test it.

Why do you think I have to, as a retired dev, come test your addition because you decided to rant to me at 2 in the god damn morning, and wanted me to test it to appease you while I normally would be sleeping. It also isn't my god damned responsibility anymore to test shit.
 

2cwldys

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Why do you think I have to, as a retired dev, come test your addition because you decided to rant to me at 2 in the god damn morning, and wanted me to test it to appease you while I normally would be sleeping. It also isn't my god damned responsibility anymore to test shit.

Messaging you at 2am? It was 12:00 PM.
I don't want you to appease me, I wanted you to try something new, like other developers willingly have.
Go on, it seems like you need to go back and get some sleep. All this arguing is tiring you out.

If it isn't your responsibility to test shit, then why are you acting as if you're not retired? Chipping into all these conversations over development work. DON'T GIVE YOUR TWO CENTS and tell others what to do with their work if it isn't your responsibility to "test shit."


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