Code of Conduct/Forum Organization Discussion

[MaceMadunusus]

I remember a time when jokes were funny. If you have to result to using things like that for a "joke" you are honestly not a funny person at all. The best comedians don't use that shit at all.

There is a big difference with using stereotypes and situations and the example viserys used. If you are using the example viserys used. You're just a dick.

 

[kvinto]

Do not let the joke win.

please do

I remember a time when jokes were funny. If you have to result to using things like that for a "joke" you are honestly not a funny person at all. The best comedians don't use that shit at all.

There is a big difference with using stereotypes and situations and the example viserys used. If you are using the example viserys used. You're just a dick.

This is just your personal opinion on what's funny. Of course everyone laughs at different things.

The best comedians don't use that shit at all.

yes they do but I guess we have a different definition of a good comedian

 

[Puppytine]

Hi, I still pay for the forum software

The fact that you pay for something doesn't mean you have a green light for bullying people.
The people like you is the reason why do commies still exist.

We are walking in circles, it's some kind of merry-go-round where different members of dev team throw in the same arguments which I already have beat.
So, I can only quote myself once again:
"With an attitude like that, this isn't the community either.
This is not how leaders treat their community, this is how middle-aged army treats a town they just occupied.
Stop pretending then that "friendly", "inclusive", "welcoming as possible" little fantasies does mean something. You neither friendly nor inclusive, you just want us to be your slaves.".

You have a property high ground, but I have a moral high ground.
What would win, property or morality?

Locking this one.

DIVERSITY OF OPINION WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, NEIN NEIN NEIN!

Oh I know do you keep locking my threads -- because of polls. My first poll was embarrassing to you, and the second one is a pure humiliation.
You just can't handle the truth, you hide the facts. Pathetic.

subaru
*:21 PM
Their opinions aren't valid
subaru
*:22 PM
They don't own the forums
subaru
*:22 PM Concerns of not being able to post memes
*:22 Who the fuck cares, really?

*In Dr. Thrax's voice* Ah! I see you...
Take a look at these 15 people those actually care about memes: Poll Results: Should we have a special section where edgy memes are allowed, available only for registered users? | Movie Battles II Community
There are even three member of Movie Battles II team who voted 'yes', and I like to think that more developers would voted for a special section where freedom of speech is allowed, if they had a chance: @Hexodious, @ent and @GoodOl'Ben.
Take a look at all those you treat as sub-humans, those which right to exist you deny.

Spoiler: pic related

Final warning

lol
So this is your true colors, "final warning". Well, I didn't really expect anything else.
Surely, If you have a "final warning", then also you do have a "final solution" for me.

Just stepping in to say - doxxing for any reason will result in permanent ban of the forums. No jokes.

Then I'll doxx you right now:

Spoiler

And it seems I'm one hell of a footnote given the attention I'm getting lol.

This is the war, darling. The meme war. War is hell.

My 500 pages of PMs to you and over 5 pages of arguing here is 'lack of arguments'. Ok, Spag is right, I wasted my time.

Quantity does not always mean quality.
Yeah, I had a good time arguing with you (and I hope I will have some more), but you completely failed to show any real proves of why recent mod actions of dev team are good for the community.
And my main question is still unanswered, no matter how many times I asked it both in our PM and on these forums:
"Why do those memes have no place here?"
Probably I'll just die of old age before I'll get an explanation from you guys.

Don't blackmail us Puppy.

It's you who blackmail us. You already banned @k4far, and you put that sword of Damocles above a head of all of us.

I told you this in PMs: nobody in the dev team wants you to be banned but if there is lack of Support because you got yourself willingly banned to play martyr that's entirely on you and no one else.

No, it will be completely your and only your fault, cause it will be you who will pull the trigger, not me. I'm not gonna ditch Support of my own free will, 88/14.
And there will be no such thing as "willingly banned", I'm just going to discuss these "improvements" to forums' enforcement policy, and post the same kind of pictures I used to post for the last two years.

It's funny how you guys are going to ban somebody who is considered "useful" for this community, without calculating any pros and cons.
Even if my activity in "Funniest pictures/videos" thread is judged as "con" (which shouldn't), does it really overrides everything else that comes from me?

I agree, warning points are garbage. I'm in favor of either a much stricter three strike system or single warning based system.

You're suggesting replacing a bad system with an another bad system.
Doesn't matter is it 10 warning points, or 3 warning points, or whatever the hell number of points -- my position is that they warnings shouldn't be counted automatically. Each case should be handled manually.
And moderators shouldn't be allowed to ban users at all -- they are supposed to ask admins to do so, when a mod believes that some person does deserve to be banned.

As for discussion of moderation: No. That's a horrible idea, it's just going to lead to trolls circlejerking over mod actions being "admin abuse".

Oh look at here, I think I just found an another CatLady!
Your toxicity, your disrespect toward community is just unimaginable. We have been called "troglodytes", "misogynist prics", "racist shitters", and now we're "circlejerking trolls".
And you know what, @Subaru? It's only you who are a troll. It's you, devs, are circlejerking.

As for "shitpost section": No, please no.

Yes, please.
But not just "shitpost section", but a "mature/adult section"; section, where people could discuss any serious matters, like politic, history, recent events, etc.
There are very old and popular Russian forums, linux.org.ru. As the address say, it's dedicated to Linux (and open-source software in general), but it also has a political section, access to which is restricted.

Please answer me this: why does the mb2 forum have to be the place to post this sort of thing?

Because the community wants it.

Why not use another site?

Because we're already here.

This sort of content makes the site look even less professional than it already does.

You know what actually makes the site look not professional?
Threating, trolling, harassing, insulting community by developers, this is not professional.
Constantly locking threads where the things are discussed the way devs don't like is not professional.
Constantly locking polls you cannot win is not professional.
Ignoring community's opinions is not professional.
Shitting on the community, after all, is not professional... Oh no, wait... If we're talking about "being professional" in the way as EA, Microsoft, or most other major coprorations see it... Yes, then you are absolutely professional!

It's also offensive and attracts the sort of people I'd rather not have on the forums.

lolwut? "Sort of people I'd rather not have on the forums." You'd rather not have on the forums?
Who the hell you think you are, and why do think you can decide which "sort of people" should be allowed to visit these forums?
I thought your job was to improve quality of game in best way you can, to attract as many people as possible, not to segregate "sub-humans" from "true Aryans".
And my job is to provide best support I can, to attract as many people as possible.

But anywhore, you talking about that my memes do attract some kind of "bad" people. Since we cannot talk about influence of edgy memes as about something hypothetical, cause they are already here for the almost two years, I have a question for ya:
Who are those "bad people", who already have been attracted to these forums, exactly?
90% of my activity on these forums is pictures thread and Support section, I am main contributor of the meme topic. So, am I one of those "sort of people you'd rather not have on the forums"? Is my activity in Support section discouraged?
Or maybe it's @Damn Polak you do not want see here? Or is it @Quinto? What's about @ent and @Noob?
I cannot see any ghost cosplayers marching on the streets of these forums, screaming Nazi slogans. Where they are? Or maybe they are just completely imaginary, just like the rest of your arguments?

Have to agree on this point, just seems like an excuse to lynch mob moderators and/or developers and just serves to make the situation worse.

What are you talking about? How can we lynch anybody? It's you who have the ban button, and we haven't.
By the same flawed logic, you should delete Bug tracker section and punish people for any attempts to report bugs.
Hell, in fact, "Feedback & Gameplay" should be deleted too, cause Movie Battles is already perfect, just like moderation of these forums. Critical views are unnecessary.

As I said, if your moderation decision provokes too much heat from the community, probably it's a just bad decision and it should be canceled.
The most of moderation acts do not receive any feedback at all, because they are good, there are no problems with them.

Developers must be responsible for their own community. Consider a "Discussion on moderation" as a stress test for a quality of moderation.

Unfortunately, by posting this sort of stuff, you perpetuate racism.

No I don't.
By the same hilariously flawed, extremely absurd logic, video games perpetuate violence, and hell, a lot of retards in real world, like Jack Thompson, use this "argument" for debating banning video games. I cannot believe I'm even reading this! What I was registering on these forums, I was sure I won't have to deal with this kind of shit here!
@Subaru, you are a game dev, you were supposed to hate people like Jack Thompson, those people are nothing but enemies of the whole game industry. And look at what you have become. You've become... become... a TRAITOR!
With this kind of discussion, it seems you actually like the world that was shown in "Demolition Man" movie. Is that true? Is that society you want to live in?

Why do I even should be responsible for something I didn't commit?
Did developers of such a great games like Postal, GTA, Manhunt commit any crime by releasing them? No.
Did I commit any crime by silently playing those games and not killing anybody? No.
Then both I and creators of GTA should be allowed to keep everything as is.
I really, really don't give a rat's ass if some lunatic shoot out a school or something because of Postal, that's not my fucking problem. Police should handle that.

Blaming people like me for actual racism because of my pictures is same thing like blaming some poor Muslim guy who has nothing to do with terrorists for 9/11.
And you would be a straight hypocrites for doing first and not doing the second.

how am I supposed to know the difference?

By using common sense.

If an "actual racist" started posting racist images, what then?

It's obvious: we should ban that goy!

I know Europe is at times more isolated from this sort of stuff, but in America we have actual KKK members and NeoNazis marching.

So you gonna take a EU part hostage?
We had Nazi gangs in Russia in nineties, that was horrible. Sometimes they killed foreigners/non-white people on the streets, and police barely cared about that.
But now they all end up in jail, even those who just posted things on Internet are also prisoned.

Aaaaaaand now we have Christian terrorists, supported by the government, who are fighting for censorship, who set movie theaters on fire because of movies they don't like.
Russia's biggest movie theater chain says it won't show film about Nicholas II, citing fears of attacks by ‘opponents’ — Meduza
Heavy security for love story of Russia's 'holy tsar' and teenage ballerina

scat porn

I didn't know what it was so I had to google. You're so sick

I was making an analogy (example? something). The line for acceptable content lies somewhere between scat porn and fluffy kittens. We both agree on that, no?

We are walking in circles. I already told Spaghetti, and I'll repeat now to you:
By my opinion, any kind of content should be allowed here, if all three condition match:

1. Our hosting isn't getting terminated
2. A majority of the community wants it
3. A significant part of the community isn't pissed by it off.

Yeah, even copro-porn.
But the fact is, nobody wants that "scat porn" over here, as well as nobody wants actual Nazi propaganda.
Your analogy is absolutely hypothetical, it has nothing to do with a reality. You're using it only because of lack of actual arguments.
My edgy, "racist" pictures were allowed, more or less, for the almost two years. Why do we discuss something hypothetical, instead of discussing real damage, made by my memes to these forums, if any?

Go look at the Blizzard CoC - http://us.battle.net/en/community/conduct - thousands of people post there and other professional game forums without them having to have a free for all section. As I said above, please take this discussion seriously.

Why do we should copy some cancerous, discouraged by many people, decisions? A lot of people these days are disappointed by those "professional" studios, and their policy.
Look at the thread I started about remake of the one of most popular SW game: Meanwhile in BioWare...
So much negative feedback.

OK, suppose we had a section of the forum where people could post memes, but there was a "no racism" rule regarding pictures. Is that an OK compromise?

No, compromise is moving "Funniest pictures/videos" to the section hidden from not-registered users, despite the fact I use google to search images in that thread.

This has nothing to do with location. Fascism and nationalism is on the rise both in the US and in Europe and elsewhere.

Oh come on, are you serious? How exactly it "is on the rise"?

If you post a meme about women being dumb and that they should be slaves to men and kept in chains, am I supposed to laugh it off?

That depends what exactly is on that picture.
If it's not funny, if it's just a straight propaganda, it shouldn't be allowed.
But a funny image about gender stereotypes is ok, as well as jokes about other stereotypes.

History happened. Crimes happen. People get hurt. Racism exists. We cannot laugh it off.

We laughed about it for whole our history, it's important part of Western culture.
And it's still in the mainstream movies, comedy shows, and VIDEO GAMES (GTA!!!).

And does that mean that we aren't allowed to laugh about Anakin massacring Younglings, Death Star blowing Alderaan into pieces anymore?

Spoiler: examples

I don't think anyone wants to actually ban all silly memes, just to tone them down a bit.

My memes are already perfect, no need tone them down for any bit.

I remember a time when jokes were funny.

They are still funny.

The best comedians don't use that shit at all.

Really? What's about Chris Rock, Sarah Silverman, George Lopez, Rey William Johnson? Aren't they considered "best"?
And what's about George Carlin, maybe even best comedian of all time? He was pushing the limits just like anybody else, he was even sued. If you are a comedian and you aren't pushing the limits, you probably just are bad comedian.

There is a big difference with using stereotypes and situations and the example viserys used. If you are using the example viserys used. You're just a dick.

I stand on the position that I use stereotypes for entertainment and I'm not acting like a real sexist.
It's unclear what Viserys actually meant since she didn't provide any examples.

 

[ent]

@Puppytine my vote does not have a weight of a team member, just my personal.
I am too dumb to vote on that from the team level, too many conditions.
I think the rest team member also voted as persons, not team members.
So my point is if even someone has a team member badge then it's not an argument that some said words are counted as the team's words.

 

[Hessu]

day 4, no answer

 

[Puppytine]

@Puppytine my vote does not have a weight of a team member, just my personal.
I am too dumb to vote on that from the team level, too many conditions.
I think the rest team member also voted as persons, not team members.
So my point is if even someone has a team member badge then it's not an argument that some said words are counted as the team's words.

I don't see a difference between "personal opinion" and "opinion as a team member", it's just overcomplicated.
How team can even have an opinion, after all? Team is an abstraction. People have opinions.
All I am trying to do is to show that MBII team does not have a consensus on this issue.

Also, I know why do you saying that. This is because of that hilarious "Team Code of Conduct", or whatever it's named. I heard it has some parts that does make MBII look more like a cult.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

What are you talking about? How can we lynch anybody? It's you who have the ban button, and we haven't.

Flawed Logic? Please dude. How does making every ban the dev team makes subject to community review not result in lynching? WEVE SEEN IT SEVERAL TIMES THIS PAST WEEK ALONE. Even though the people doing it were warned to stop and calm down before hand. You cannot seriously think I'm the one with flawed logic. Holy shit. The community doesn't always pay attention to the amount of warnings someone got publicly or privately. Many members of the community will come into a situation without knowing the whole story just to defend their friend even if they clearly broke the rules. Sure, sometimes the community comes to support the developer bans because a person is toxic, but mostly what we've experienced is ganging up on devs by a persons friends more than random members of the community coming around against something.

I don't have a ban button.

Really? What's about Chris Rock, Sarah Silverman, George Lopez, Rey William Johnson? Aren't they considered "best"?
And what's about George Carlin, maybe even best comedian of all time? He was pushing the limits just like anybody else, he was even sued. If you are a comedian and you aren't pushing the limits, you probably just are bad comedian.

There are plenty of people who use dark humor and do it well without using an example like viserys used. I have never seen the ones you listed make a joke like that. Now I could be wrong that they haven't but I have never personally seen them make a joke like that. But if you want to take my comment out of context and assume I am talking about ALL dark humor, then by all means please continue trying to twist an argument.

You're suggesting replacing a bad system with an another bad system.
Doesn't matter is it 10 warning points, or 3 warning points, or whatever the hell number of points -- my position is that they warnings shouldn't be counted automatically. Each case should be handled manually.
And moderators shouldn't be allowed to ban users at all -- they are supposed to ask admins to do so, when a mod believes that some person does deserve to be banned.

MICROMANAGE ALL THE THINGS. TOTALLY EFFICIENT! GREAT!

 

[Puppytine]

Mace, no need to shout that loud, I can hear you pretty clear .
Chill, dude.

Please dude. How does making every ban the dev team makes subject to community review not result in lynching?

Because as I said, we can do nothing against you.
We can't unban anybody by voting, we can't strip admin's rights by voting, etc.
All we can do is talk. We can roast you. And if roasting is so hard you can't stand it, then probably your (team's, not your personally) mod decision is just bad.

WEVE SEEN IT SEVERAL TIMES THIS PAST WEEK ALONE.

Examples? If you mean this thread and two my previous threads, that's all because new meme policy is bad.

The community doesn't always pay attention to the amount of warnings someone got publicly or privately.

Give them more warnings then, or a short ban (12h - 1d).

Many members of the community will come into a situation without knowing the whole story

Show them the whole story.

Sure, sometimes the community comes to support the developer bans because a person is toxic, but mostly what we've experienced is ganging up on devs by a persons friends more than random members of the community coming around against something.

I know that sounds crazy, but maybe you (dev team, not you personally) should stop banning people only because you can, stop giving so excessively long ban durations, and concentrate on banning those who are actually toxic?
Sometimes only the craziest ideas work.

I don't have a ban button.

I was referring to the whole gang, not you personally.

There are plenty of people who use dark humor and do it well without using an example like viserys used. I have never seen the ones you listed make a joke like that. Now I could be wrong that they haven't but I have never personally seen them make a joke like that. But if you want to take my comment out of context and assume I am talking about ALL dark humor, then by all means please continue trying to twist an argument.

At least George Lopez and Chris Rock were accused of being racist, all others were pushing the limits in general.
As for Viserys, I repeat I see no possibility to discuss her words until she brings an actual picture instead of verbal description. We can end up wondering that she meant something pretty different from that we imagined basing on her words.

MICROMANAGE ALL THE THINGS. TOTALLY EFFICIENT! GREAT!

I was a moderator on a pretty big forums (2 millions replies), and that was pretty efficient.
Mods give warnings, edit, delete and move posts and threads, and ask admins for banning users who are getting out of hand.
Why do you acting like there are violators to ban everyday? Even with current enforcement practice, bans are rare enough.
I assume there are two admins now, Viserys and Spaghetti (correct me if I'm wrong), surely they can handle all the requests from moderators in time. And they wouldn't have to unban people mistakenly banned by some moderator who is out of touch.

Or just give me admin rights, put all the responsibilities on me, I can handle anything, including that "lynching" from the community.
I can make majority happy, I will do my best to solve conflicts using diplomacy, not brute force #Puppytine2017.

===================

I want to use this opportunity to step aside and talk about something bit different.
As we all know, not very time ago there was an unpleasant incident, when @Cat Lady had a meltdown.
He not only wrongfully banned some respected members of our community, not only censored that important and comprehensive discussion about new policy for "Funniest pictures/videos" thread, but he also insulted users with his rude replies.
We have been called "troglodytes", "misogynist prics", "racist shitters" and so on.
Bans were lifted fast, showing that they weren't approved by project leaders.
Recently, @MaceMadunusus have admitted that "Cat Lady went to far", in the same conversation he denied my statements that he was retired (I intentionally mentioned his forum badge few times).
So, now it's official: Cat Lady shouldn't say things he did say.
But one thing that is supposed to happen didn't happen yet: I am talking about apologies. I didn't see any official apologies from Movie Battles II team, but in fact developers should say sorry for an inappropriate behavior of team's member.
Many people, including me, were offended. You're constantly talking about being "professional" and "mature", but if you really want to be professional and mature, you should make an official apology.

Spoiler: evidences

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Because as I said, we can do nothing against you.
We can't unban anybody by voting, we can't strip admin's rights by voting, etc.
All we can do is talk. We can roast you. And if roasting is so hard you can't stand it, then probably your (team's, not your personally) mod decision is just bad.

I'm not sure how not having power has anything to do with lynch mob style mentality.

"a group of people who criticize someone severely and try to bring about the person's downfall" Now, this is one of the definitions of a lynch mob. I've seen several people criticize subaru, cat lady, and even me even though I have zero forum mod powers, saying that we need to be removed of power, etc etc. Whether you agree or disagree with what they did, that is quite literally trying to lynch mob people and there were more than just you doing that (Gestapo KGB aaaaaaa).

"A lynch mob is an angry crowd of people who want to kill someone without a trial, because they believe that person has committed a crime." Another definition here. Which kind of fits your definition of community oversight of moderators, and some of the actions of the community recently. Now it isn't to "kill" someone in this case, but many of you have been acting like the team committed a freaking war crime and you don't give a shit about the moderators having a fair trial but absolutely want every person banned by the community to have a fair trial in front of a committee of moderators/admins when they are banned. What kind of crap is that? Complete double standard.

Give them more warnings then, or a short ban (12h - 1d).

That does not solve the issue of people not paying attention to other people getting warnings and wondering why their friends get banned then go and attack mods for it.

I know that sounds crazy, but maybe you (dev team, not you personally) should stop banning people only because you can, stop giving so excessively long ban durations, and concentrate on banning those who are actually toxic?
Sometimes only the craziest ideas work.

I'm not sure how one overall incident results in "should stop banning people only because you can" we literally do not do that, and hardly ever ban. If you want to exaggerate the whole thing, sure. Now standardizing ban duration sure.

At least George Lopez and Chris Rock were accused of being racist, all others were pushing the limits in general.

Pretty much everyone gets accused of being a racist today. I got accused of being racist a few weeks ago for not wanting a statue destroyed (Put it in a museum or something, take it out of a public park, but don't destroy it). Even though my family is of jewish heritage and even native american heritage (I am not jewish) who had family die in concentration camps, family who also fled russian camps, who had a viet girlfriend, currently learning to speak vietnamese, grandparents who marched with MLK, etc. People really don't care and will just call someone racist because they have no better arguments and its something I wish would stop. If you don't follow their exact way of thinking, you're racist. But making jokes about women, gays, other races doesn't make you racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. But even to me, there can be a point where things are too dark and hard to distinguish. Yes maybe viserys could clarify her example more, but I am having a hard time figuring out a joke that references first world women and being slaves for example. I could see maybe a joke towards muslims there but that is about it. But then again I've always been better at making jokes with good friends than stand up comedy type anyway.

Mods give warnings, edit, delete and move posts and threads, and ask admins for banning users who are getting out of hand.
Why do you acting like there are violators to ban everyday? Even with current enforcement practice, bans are rare enough.
I assume there are two admins now, Viserys and Spaghetti (correct me if I'm wrong), surely they can handle all the requests from moderators in time. And they wouldn't have to unban people mistakenly banned by some moderator who is out of touch.

No there isn't a problem most of the time. However I don't think you understand how much of a drain in the team this level of drama is in the MB2 community. Everything gets blown way the hell out of proportion, people have no patience, etc. It is really stressful for people who are already living stressful lives. The team is already stretched incredibly thin and you want them to be stretched further. Like I know Spag would much rather be working on map stuff with me, but right now he has to deal with this. Update the CoC, deal with conflict, etc instead of actually working on the damn mod because people blow everything way out of proportion. Like this crap, is literally one of the reasons I stopped working on MB2 because I wanted to avoid the stupid community drama. Then Spag was completely overloaded and needed help with dotfv2 and since I consider him to be a friend, I am going to come help but jesus its still as tiring as it ever was even just looking at this on the forums. Please for the love of god try to see anything that has happened recently from the developers side. It is stressful and not at all fun for any of us.

Though, while taking some load of of viserys and spag is always nice. I am not sure I would trust you to do it since you've been pretty unwilling to enforce most of the rules and violate them when it suits you. Since were bringing discord into it and by your own admittance, you don't care about rules. https://i.gyazo.com/11cbbabc61f9606e56d5fbc1871789e9.png

Recently, @MaceMadunusus have admitted that "Cat Lady went to far", in the same conversation he denied my statements that he was retired (I intentionally mentioned his forum badge few times).
So, now it's official: Cat Lady shouldn't say things he did say.
But one thing that is supposed to happen didn't happen yet: I am talking about apologies. I didn't see any official apologies from Movie Battles II team, but in fact developers should say sorry for an inappropriate behavior of team's member.

I am not going to deny saying that because I did say that and is what I think. But I would appreciate it if you wouldn't act like it is an official statement. I literally said "I think catlady went too far". Its literally giving my opinion on the situation and specifically not an official statement from the team.

Many people, including me, were offended. You're constantly talking about being "professional" and "mature", but if you really want to be professional and mature, you should make an official apology.

It would also be nice if the community who wants the team to be mature, would also take their own advice. We didn't immediately respond during the tR incident with an official statement, apology, resolution, etc. Don't expect one here either. Viserys for example I believe is on vacation right now, yet you want everyone to bend over backwards on their time off to please you with a statement of any kind the moment you want it. Patience. So, take a step back from the keyboard with these long ass posts. You've stirred up enough conflict that at least something will change.

 

[Puppytine]

I'm not sure how not having power has anything to do with lynch mob style mentality.

This is SO wrong...
The whole sense of "lynch mob" is a mob that is killing somebody, mostly mob of white people killing a black person.
They called it a "lynch law", in Russian language it's usually "lynch trial", but in fact it's neither law nor trial, it's just a mob executing a one man.
I insist that since we cannot execute anybody, we cannot be a lynch mob. Tell me, all those protesters those came and come on the streets around the globe, are they "lynch mob"? Would it be correct to call millions people lead by MLK "lynch mob"? You live in USA, you have a political demonstrations almost every day. Are they "lynch mobs" for you?

I've seen several people criticize subaru, cat lady, and even me even though I have zero forum mod powers, saying that we need to be removed of power, etc etc.

So... are you telling me that "criticizing" is now equal to "lynching"? Seriously? I repeat, you are from the country those have maybe longest tradition of people criticizing their own government. Criticizing them hard. Really hard.
CNN is used to bash conservatives, Fox assaulting liberals.
And I still think Cat Lady shouldn't have mod tools. That's pretty valid opinion.

Now it isn't to "kill" someone in this case, but many of you have been acting like the team committed a freaking war crime and you don't give a shit about the moderators having a fair trial but absolutely want every person banned by the community to have a fair trial in front of a committee of moderators/admins when they are banned.

Because we don't believe that the trial was fair, it's as simple as that.
And we want a public and transparent trial, yes. This is how it's done in countries like USA or France.
Secret courts are for USSR or Nazi Germany.
In America, people are protesting near courts' buildings all the time, usually supporters of both side take a part.

That does not solve the issue of people not paying attention to other people getting warnings and wondering why their friends get banned then go and attack mods for it.

No, short bans (for those who deserve them) work pretty efficient. It helps chill hotheads... If only admins don't abuse their powers and don't ban innocent people, indeed.

I'm not sure how one overall incident results in "should stop banning people only because you can" we literally do not do that, and hardly ever ban. If you want to exaggerate the whole thing, sure. Now standardizing ban duration sure.

@k4far is still bannedwow, he is unbanned now, but he has spend being banned too much time anyway, despite the fact he probably don't deserve ban at all.
@Partizan is still banned. Though he did commit rules' violations, true, permanent banning is absolutely redundant.

Also, the whole idea that for a doxxing one can be banned permanently is ridiculous. Permanent bans should be extraordinary, they should be applied only for absolutely, positively unreasonable people, who avoid punishments they already got, who actually do damage to the community.

Pretty much everyone gets accused of being a racist today. I got accused of being racist a few weeks ago for not wanting a statue destroyed (Put it in a museum or something, take it out of a public park, but don't destroy it).

So you should know how I feel when I've been called "racist", and my pictures get removed because of that.

Yes maybe viserys could clarify her example more, but I am having a hard time figuring out a joke that references first world women and being slaves for example.

So let's just close this matter for now, until we'll have some additional information.
I can only say that I don't support gender-based discrimination in any way, man and woman should be treated equally. Though none of them are safe from jokes based on gender stereotypes.

However I don't think you understand how much of a drain in the team this level of drama is in the MB2 community. Everything gets blown way the hell out of proportion, people have no patience, etc. It is really stressful for people who are already living stressful lives.

I feel you, I already spent a hell lot of time typing all these replies. It's stressful for me as well.
But you know what is funny? The fact that all this drama could be avoid by simply not locking old "Funniest/pictures/videos" thread and by not changing enforcement practice. Spaghetti started it, not me.

I am not sure I would trust you to do it since you've been pretty unwilling to enforce most of the rules and violate them when it suits you. Since were bringing discord into it and by your own admittance, you don't care about rules. https://i.gyazo.com/11cbbabc61f9606e56d5fbc1871789e9.png

I didn't want to enforce rules I think are unfair, like "no politics in funny pictures" (already lifted).
I saw some contradictions between CoC and actual enforcement practice, but since enforcement practice fit me in general, I didn't want to start a drama out of nowhere, indeed.

And you can't blame me for abusing my mod rights, not even once.
Everything I was doing were a technical things, like:

• Hiding huge logs under "spoiler" BBCode so threads look nicer
• Merging double posts so threads look nicer
• Renaming threads like "HALP!!" to something like "Game crashes with message VM_Create on UI failed" so threads look nicer
• etc

You cannot blame me for violating rules in general as well. Before all this drama, I was a good boy!

Its literally giving my opinion on the situation and specifically not an official statement from the team.

Oh come on, you were insisting that you were a valid team member!
So this is how you roll, when you benefit from being in the team, you're in, and when it doesn't suit you, you're out? Double standards ftw.
Yeah, maybe your reply wasn't official statement from the whole team, but at least it was an official statement of a single member of the team.

We didn't immediately respond during the tR incident with an official statement, apology, resolution, etc.

Though I didn't post anything on tR-gate (didn't have a time), I'm very disappointed with actions of developers.
tR-gate is classical example of the things I was talking about, "banning people only because you can", "shoot first, ask questions last".

Don't expect one here either. Viserys for example I believe is on vacation right now, yet you want everyone to bend over backwards on their time off to please you with a statement of any kind the moment you want it. Patience.

I can wait a little longer, world isn't going die any time soon, though it's already been a while.
Also it isn't necessary for Viserys to make an apology, any Movie Battles II team member would be ok. The best pick is Cat Lady anyway, since it's he who did those reckless statements.

 

[ent]

I don't see a difference between "personal opinion" and "opinion as a team member"

Then that's bad.
I do see the difference.

 

[Viserys]

Ok Puppy I shall once again spend my time replying to your posts, even though by now it's 100% evident you don't listen, just because your twisting of logic upside down and inside out would make philosophers of logic hang themselves en mass.

I can't help myself. I need help. Someone ban me from these forums.

"With an attitude like that, this isn't the community either.
This is not how leaders treat their community, this is how middle-aged army treats a town they just occupied.
Stop pretending then that "friendly", "inclusive", "welcoming as possible" little fantasies does mean something. You neither friendly nor inclusive, you just want us to be your slaves.".

Please, stop blowing this so much out of proportion. I mean really, are treating you as slaves by enforcing our forum's posting rules and then spending pages and pages talking about it. Stop using that phrase, it's not even an argument, it sounds ridiculous.

Then I'll doxx you right now:

Idk what @Subaru thinks about that picture but as far as I'm concerned comparing him or anyone else to Hitler is neither an argument nor an acceptable post.

And my main question is still unanswered, no matter how many times I asked it both in our PM and on these forums:
"Why do those memes have no place here?"
Probably I'll just die of old age before I'll get an explanation from you guys.

Let's see. I've answered that question about 20 times now. Subaru has. Spaghetti has. Eezstreet has. GoodOlBen has. But we haven't answered that question, right?

Just because you do not agree with our explanation doesn't make it less valid. Do I need to explain how arguments work? They don't work by ignoring the opposing opinion and asking the same question a million times.

It's like you asking what colour the sky is. I'm saying the sky is blue and you're saying it's green. That doesn't make it green, nor does it mean I haven't answered your question. Stop asking it. And maybe the sky is purple after all, but it's not green just because you say so.

Blaming people like me for actual racism because of my pictures is same thing like blaming some poor Muslim guy who has nothing to do with terrorists for 9/11.
And you would be a straight hypocrites for doing first and not doing the second.

Your analogy would be valid if the Muslim in question spent his time screaming "Jihad" and then saying "Oh was just kidding". Doubt law enforcement would say "oh, ok, funny, hahahaha!".

As I said, if your moderation decision provokes too much heat from the community, probably it's a just bad decision and it should be canceled.
The most of moderation acts do not receive any feedback at all, because they are good, there are no problems with them.

Moderation is not a democracy. We already have a section called "Moderation Actions" where people can contact the team directly and complain in case of abuse. Yes, we have that section, it's there! A community discussion for every moderation action is such a crazy idea I'd like you to point me towards a forum that functions this way.

No, it will be completely your and only your fault, cause it will be you who will pull the trigger, not me. I'm not gonna ditch Support of my own free will, 88/14.
And there will be no such thing as "willingly banned", I'm just going to discuss these "improvements" to forums' enforcement policy, and post the same kind of pictures I used to post for the last two years.

It's funny how you guys are going to ban somebody who is considered "useful" for this community, without calculating any pros and cons.
Even if my activity in "Funniest pictures/videos" thread is judged as "con" (which shouldn't), does it really overrides everything else that comes from me?

So you're saying because of your help with Support, we should treat you in a special manner and let you violate the posting rules. Sounds fair and objective like you want us to be, right?

It's obvious: we should ban that goy!

Obvious, eh? He'll just say he was joking! Everyone is joking, and since humour is subjective, there's no rule to say when something is a joke and when it isn't, is there? You think all your memes are funny, I think some are offensive. Your opinion is not more valid than mine.

We are walking in circles. I already told Spaghetti, and I'll repeat now to you:
By my opinion, any kind of content should be allowed here, if all three condition match:

1. Our hosting isn't getting terminated
2. A majority of the community wants it
3. A significant part of the community isn't pissed by it off.

Well, Subaru won't be paying for forums with such memes, and I won't be administrating them. You can't force either of us to spend our time and money on something we don't like. So we'd lose the forums, unless you find someone to replace us. Sounds like we are on case 1 eh?

And once more: these forums are owned by the dev team and as such we decide what rules we want to implement. It's not a public decision. It's not a public decision on any forums, all forums have their own rules.

Oh come on, are you serious? How exactly it "is on the rise"?

Clearly you haven't been paying attention. There's more to Europe than Russia Suggest you google it and see how in the past few years (mostly due to the immigration wave) nationalism and far right are on the rise, certain countries have Nazis in parliament, etc. etc.

But a funny image about gender stereotypes is ok, as well as jokes about other stereotypes.

First of all allow me to be clear: I don't think sexism is anywhere near the biggest discrimination problem in the Western world right now, but allow me to inform you: I live with it everyday. It exists, and having to tolerate it is not funny.

And does that mean that we aren't allowed to laugh about Anakin massacring Younglings, Death Star blowing Alderaan into pieces anymore?

You are comparing real tragedies to imaginary ones in a film. Do you even know what you're saying at this point?

I stand on the position that I use stereotypes for entertainment and I'm not acting like a real sexist.

I'll be the judge of that, tyvm.

All I am trying to do is to show that MBII team does not have a consensus on this issue.

Also, I know why do you saying that. This is because of that hilarious "Team Code of Conduct", or whatever it's named. I heard it has some parts that does make MBII look more like a cult.

No there is no consensus, there is hardly consensus about anything since we are comprised of many members with varying opinions. Personally I welcome individual opinions from devs since this is, after all, a discussion.

As for the Team CoC you so kindly mock from your expert position, it's meant to instill a sense of team spirit, otherwise we are not a team just a bunch of people who argue publicly. I don't understand why this isn't obvious: teams argue and discuss internally, and show a united front externally. Happens everywhere, from companies to football teams.

I know that sounds crazy, but maybe you (dev team, not you personally) should stop banning people only because you can, stop giving so excessively long ban durations, and concentrate on banning those who are actually toxic?

So you've run out of arguments and now you're straight out lying. No one was banned for no reason. They (k4far) were banned for violating posting rules repeatedly after being warned.

As for Viserys, I repeat I see no possibility to discuss her words until she brings an actual picture instead of verbal description. We can end up wondering that she meant something pretty different from that we imagined basing on her words.

I struggle to understand why you need a picture. Imagine a woman with a chain on her neck, on her knees, chain held by a guy standing above her and text reading "her rightful place". Oh, funny!

Or just give me admin rights, put all the responsibilities on me, I can handle anything, including that "lynching" from the community.

I would actually like to have you as a moderator, I've told you that on PMs, but I can't make you one since you violate the CoC yourself and scream how it's crappy and useless. A moderator's job is to enforce the CoC, I might as well ask a thief to guard a bank.

But one thing that is supposed to happen didn't happen yet: I am talking about apologies. I didn't see any official apologies from Movie Battles II team, but in fact developers should say sorry for an inappropriate behavior of team's member.
Many people, including me, were offended. You're constantly talking about being "professional" and "mature", but if you really want to be professional and mature, you should make an official apology.

Well, since you have appointed yourself representative of the group of people fighting for memes, I would like a formal apology from you for all the stuff I've read that were offensive and insulting to me.

As for Cat Lady, the stuff he said on Discord were his own opinions. I have already rectified the moderation actions he took that I thought were unjustified (and left alone those I thought were justified). Further discussion on what he should or shouldn't have said is internal. Also Discord is a chat and as such more of a place for random rantings (not saying anything goes there, but it's not the same as forums).

But you know what is funny? The fact that all this drama could be avoid by simply not locking old "Funniest/pictures/videos" thread and by not changing enforcement practice. Spaghetti started it, not me.

Mummy, he started it!
Eh, no. Spag simply decided to enforce the existing forum rules. We've said it a million times: just because they weren't enforced before, doesn't mean they should keep being unenforced. You blowing this into this huge deal is no reason for us to stop doing what we think is best for these forums, period.

And you can't blame me for abusing my mod rights, not even once.

No you have not abused, you have been very helpful in cleaning up stuff so far with the powers I've given you and thank you for that. But you cannot enforce posting rules you violate yourself. Moderation isn't just cleanup, it's also giving warnings and enforcing rules.

I am going to pre order new Battlefront

gl hf bb!




Closing this I'd like to say, @Puppytine , that I've (thankfully) received PMs from players encouraging me and the team for dealing with all this mess and thanks for our (unpaid) efforts to keep the mod going. Those messages are the only thing keeping me here, cause I know the community is not made up only be people as ungrateful as you and the others here screaming we're Gestapo for wanting to keep our forums a nice place for all players to enjoy. Like I said in a previous message, we are the same people developing the mod, so this obsession with memes is taking away our time, our energy, and mostly our motivation. You cannot expect to treat us like shit here and then "where's my new patch?". Sorry, no. We are people, not robots. You place memes over development at this point. I strongly suggest you take a break from the forums and come back with a bit less aggressive attitude, I'm real tired of responding to your walls of text (I could stop, but I can't stop!)

 

[ent]

You can have two opinions: one truthful, other one for excuses and for agreeing with people you are afraid of for some reasons.

Who am I afraid of?
I voted Yes for allowing the "edgy memes" though Viserys wants some limitations.
My point was only to not mix replies by person and replies by the team.
Good attempt to brainwash some other readers though, I almost believed that I was wrong.

 

[k4far]

Good attempt to brainwash some other readers though.

Lmao. Point out where you the Developers lied.

This is not about memes and term "edgy" what is that. We are discussing to abolish butthurt swift moderations based on personal opinions.

Spoiler

View attachment 2135
View attachment 2136

You guys tend to abuse so much, I suggest 3 caughts like this and you get spanked.

@Cat Lady was caught abusing.
@Subaru was caught doing as he pleases.
@Viserys is doing whatever she feels like.

gg hf lmao.

 

[Noob]

literally trying to lynch mob people

we literally do not do that

Like this crap, is literally one of the reasons I stopped working on MB2

I literally said "I think catlady went too far". Its literally giving my opinion

I'm getting some white girl vibes in this thread. It's like two deaf people yelling at eachother lmao its pointless. do you forget this is @eezstreet thread to fix the problem

 

[Hexodious]

I keep getting mentioned, and I feel out of context. I would rather not have an off-topic at all since reddit/4chan is just a click away, all in all seems like less hassle and the forums can stick to being about the game. But I am also ok with a random section, must be logged in to see, and an 18+ warning or whatever, and at the same time I can see why the dev team doesn't want that because it opens a whole other can of worms.

But the circle-jerking in this thread is just madness. Can't you all just agree to disagree? Also I am not part of the current dev team, my opinions are my own.

 

[ent]

I keep getting mentioned, and I feel out of context. I would rather not have an off-topic at all since reddit/4chan is just a click away, all in all seems like less hassle and the forums can stick to being about the game. But I am also ok with a random section, must be logged in to see, and an 18+ warning or whatever, and at the same time I can see why the dev team doesn't want that because it opens a whole other can of worms.

But the circle-jerking in this thread is just madness. Can't you all just agree to disagree? Also I am not part of the current dev team, my opinions are my own.

I have to click "Unwatch" after each reply.
Suggesting you to do the same, unless you are mentioned or quoted.

 

[Puppytine]

Then that's bad.
I do see the difference.

Well, I can't see any difference.
You either think that we should have that section, or you don't. It's as simple as it.
No idea how a single man could have a two different opinions on same matter.
And please notice, that the question is "Do you think that we should have that section?", not "Do you want that section?".
And yes, I know that you voted 'yes'. Thank you for that.

Ok Puppy I shall once again spend my time replying to your posts

God damn it Vis
That's a huge reply
You're becoming more powerful, my apprentice.
I'm impressed (seriously, no sarcasm).
Each time I see you posted a new reply, my heart is beating much faster. But with that in mind, I'm going to destroy all your arguments once again, like I'm used to.

I can't help myself. I need help. Someone ban me from these forums.

No no no, don't listen to her, guys! She's just kidding!

Please, stop blowing this so much out of proportion. I mean really, are treating you as slaves by enforcing our forum's posting rules and then spending pages and pages talking about it. Stop using that phrase, it's not even an argument, it sounds ridiculous.

I will stop using it right after you stop using "argument" "we pay for the forums the we decide what's gonna happen here, not listening to you, community".
It sounds as ridiculous as my phrase about slaves.

Idk what @Subaru thinks about that picture but as far as I'm concerned comparing him or anyone else to Hitler is neither an argument nor an acceptable post.

He locked my thread, limiting my freedom of speech (should I remind you that it's you who promised me that thread?), he has a "final warning" for me. So I assume he has a "final solution" as well.

Let's see. I've answered that question about 20 times now. Subaru has. Spaghetti has. Eezstreet has. GoodOlBen has. But we haven't answered that question, right?

Then could you please answer for 21th time? I'm retarded, please be merciful.
And could you give a very short and clear answer, that won't leave space for ambiguity? You know, I'm very retarded.
The question is: "Why can't we have a special section for edgy (but mainstream) memes, that won't be available for a guests?"

And it's funny how you brought @GoodOl'Ben to this, even though he said he "thinks this is a good solution", to put a memes into a special section.
Hell, even you called my idea a "logical thing". And now you switched sides?

Your analogy would be valid if the Muslim in question spent his time screaming "Jihad" and then saying "Oh was just kidding". Doubt law enforcement would say "oh, ok, funny, hahahaha!".

But people these days are afraid of Muslims not matter what they're doing. Looking as a typical, stereotyped Muslim is already enough.

Moderation is not a democracy.

Why? Cause you said so?
And you know, I didn't suggest to ban/unban people by voting, I only proposed to allow people express their opinions about your actions, nothing more.
Compare to this: in Western countries, a decision in trial is made by judge or by jury, not by national voting. But also, nation is getting informed about trial, evidences and sentence. People also allowed to protest around court's building, without a threat of to be thrown in jail.

So you're saying because of your help with Support, we should treat you in a special manner and let you violate the posting rules. Sounds fair and objective like you want us to be, right?

No, I'm saying that you should create a special section for all registered users, not only for me, and change the rules according to that section.
You should do it because of majority of the community wants it, and because I also do support it. If you had any respect for my help in the Support, you would listen to my opinion. Too bad you don't give a damn.

Obvious, eh? He'll just say he was joking! Everyone is joking, and since humour is subjective, there's no rule to say when something is a joke and when it isn't, is there?

It's obvious if you have a common sense.
If you don't have it, surely I can help you with that, because I actually do have a common sense.
Make me admin, I will create that restricted section and I will moderate it, making sure that nobody is posting actually racist images #Puppytine2017.

You think all your memes are funny, I think some are offensive. Your opinion is not more valid than mine.

Good point, princess, but it also has a flaw: your opinion is less valid if you are a minority.
Ideally, we should make these forums as inclusive as possible, so both majority and minorities would feel that they are welcomed. We can archive that by creating a "mature" section and putting all edgy stuff there. You won't have to visit that section, so you won't be offended.

Well, Subaru won't be paying for forums with such memes, and I won't be administrating them. You can't force either of us to spend our time and money on something we don't like.

Oh, then you was blaming me for "blackmail you", and now you're going to blackmail me? I forget, it's not a blackmailing when you do it! Silly me!

Yeah, while I can't pay for it, I can administrating these forums, no problems at all.
I already run vBulletin 4 forums for like a more then one years, everything is fine. Taking into account that XenForo is an another gift of our Lord and Saviour, Kier, who is also a founder of vBulletin, I expect no trouble handling XenForo, this beautiful engine #Puppytine2017.

And once more: these forums are owned by the dev team and as such we decide what rules we want to implement. It's not a public decision. It's not a public decision on any forums, all forums have their own rules.

C'mon, we already have discussed it :\
See my answer above, where I have explained what is the community, and what is a city occupied by a hostile army.

I live with it everyday. It exists, and having to tolerate it is not funny.

Oh you poor thing. I can't even imagine how difficult it is to be a woman in UK in 2017!

You are comparing real tragedies to imaginary ones in a film. Do you even know what you're saying at this point?

The whole Star Wars series is based on the allusions of WWII.
Vader is Hitler, stormtroopers are space Nazis and so on. George Lucas literally turned tragedy of millions people into millions dollars for himself. Why don't you protest against that?

No there is no consensus, there is hardly consensus about anything since we are comprised of many members with varying opinions. Personally I welcome individual opinions from devs since this is, after all, a discussion.

Yes, there is no consensus in the MBII team, it's more like 50/50, and community is definitely for getting a new section, hidden from guests. Last poll was 15:0 before it got locked.
So it's obvious what decision should be made, it's obvious for anybody... except dictators, indeed.

I don't understand why this isn't obvious: teams argue and discuss internally, and show a united front externally. Happens everywhere, from companies to football teams.

Doesn't happen in a parliaments, across different parties. It's public.
Discussion in the free software universe also are available for anybody else (I heard Linus is savage, love this guy).

I struggle to understand why you need a picture. Imagine a woman with a chain on her neck, on her knees, chain held by a guy standing above her and text reading "her rightful place". Oh, funny!

ok, if this is an exact caption, then I do agree, this is NOT funny. Wouldn't post, 11/9.

Well, since you have appointed yourself representative of the group of people fighting for memes, I would like a formal apology from you for all the stuff I've read that were offensive and insulting to me.

As for Cat Lady, the stuff he said on Discord were his own opinions. I have already rectified the moderation actions he took that I thought were unjustified (and left alone those I thought were justified). Further discussion on what he should or shouldn't have said is internal. Also Discord is a chat and as such more of a place for random rantings (not saying anything goes there, but it's not the same as forums).

In other words, you don't care about being professional when your team insults the community, not otherwise.
m'key.

A moderator's job is to enforce the CoC, I might as well ask a thief to guard a bank.

If I became admin, we're getting a mature section, hidden from guests, and "Site Feedback" section faster than you can say "I hope you know what you're doing", as well as changes to CoC that legitimize those sections #Puppytine2017.

Eh, no. Spag simply decided to enforce the existing forum rules. We've said it a million times: just because they weren't enforced before, doesn't mean they should keep being unenforced. You blowing this into this huge deal is no reason for us to stop doing what we think is best for these forums, period.

And I've said it a million times: you could leave everything as it was, nobody would bat an eye.
But no, let's keep the drama until everyone get banned.
You could also silently change CoC, or create a damn restricted section. But no, nothing is seems a good compromise to you.
So this is your fault and your responsibility. Don't make me be responsible for your decisions and your actions.

But you cannot enforce posting rules you violate yourself. Moderation isn't just cleanup, it's also giving warnings and enforcing rules.

It's also giving warnings and enforcing rules when it's needed, not just to stroke your or my ego.
Most of police officers' activity isn't related to shooting or chasing.
I would definitely enforce rules if I see somebody posting gore, or computer malware, or insulting somebody, or spamming, or any other kind of real, harmful violation. I'm definitely not for anarchy #Puppytine2017.

I know the community is not made up only be people as ungrateful as you

This is a lie. I am not ungrateful. After all, my contribution to the Support is something that I'm giving to the community.

wanting to keep our forums a nice place for all players to enjoy.

So, I assume, we aren't included to those "all players"? We are nobody? You already have made a decision to get rid of us?
Because without opportunity of posting pictures like I'm used to, it won't be a nice place for me.

ike I said in a previous message, we are the same people developing the mod, so this obsession with memes is taking away our time, our energy, and mostly our motivation.

Then do the right thing: create a section available for registered users only, and allow us to post there our memes, so we could end this damn war and return to our homes already!

Spoiler

You cannot expect to treat us like shit here

Why are you blaming me for something that you actually did? I don't understand.

and then "where's my new patch?".

Could you please point out where I demanded a new patch?

I strongly suggest you take a break from the forums and come back with a bit less aggressive attitude

Excuse me? Is it me who have an aggressive attitude? Seriously?
It's me who have been vilified and hated since August, 14. I was threatened multiple times, my posts were deleted, my threads and polls are getting locked all the time, I was called "racist shitter" and "misogynist prick". I'm getting unimaginable level of aggression from dev team, and yet no matter how many times I suggested a compromise, you still don't want listen to me, you don't want to listen any of us.

I was peacefully sitting in my corner, posting funny pictures, but then you decide to come and destroy things I loved, and then I is blamed for an aggressive attitude... I don't even have a words to describe such an atrocity, I don't even know why people can be so mercilessly cruel!

I'm real tired of responding to your walls of text (I could stop, but I can't stop!)

You can stop this all. Just give us our place. That's all we want. Please, I'm begging you.

 

[Puppytine]

I would rather not have an off-topic at all since reddit/4chan is just a click away, all in all seems like less hassle and the forums can stick to being about the game. But I am also ok with a random section, must be logged in to see, and an 18+ warning or whatever

No need to get rid of Offtopic, if we had random section I would put all risky stuff there, and wouldn't bother to post it to a section where people don't want to see it. Offtopic would be nice, clean and safe, perfectly +13, or maybe even +6.

and at the same time I can see why the dev team doesn't want that because it opens a whole other can of worms.

No no no, it opens a can of sunshine, can of happiness, can of ponies! Friendship is a miracle!
This whole meme war would be over, and it shoulda ended there. It shoulda ended with the me, @Spaghetti, @foggy and @Viserys holding hands and skipping off into the sunset because that is a perfect ending.

 

[eezstreet]

I'm getting some white girl vibes in this thread. It's like two deaf people yelling at eachother lmao its pointless. do you forget this is @eezstreet thread to fix the problem

ya mate, this.

I just want to remind everyone that this is a thread about changing the code of conduct, rules enforcement, and forum organization. This is a pretty serious thread, let's treat it that way. I've removed a lot of shitposting, off-topic stuff and petty arguments - let's leave whatever past confrontations at the door and focus on positive change for the forums.