Close Combat Training to increase walking/crouching/going backwards speed

[S o l d i e r]

Now that Close Combat Training 2 was removed from Open, Soldiers are somewhat lacking and can be very easily killed by Jedi/Sith. The get-up is really slow and so is the speed. Since Close Combat Training 2 was OP, there needs to be an intermediate solution between Close Combat Training 2 and not having it. I suggest adding a slight speed increase to walking/crouching/going backwards (either only to one of these forms of movement, two, or all) to either Close Combat Training 1 or a new Close Combat Training 2. This would give some more mobility to Soldiers when facing Jedi/Sith and it wouldn't be overpowered as the old Close Combat Training 2.

 

[k4far]

Force users should have slight edge over Troopers when it comes to martial arts (slow get up is totally justified in my opinion.) If you get grabbed by Soldier they will drill you with bullets shortly after. A 1/3 unit being able to kill someone worth one whole life is pretty nice. You just have to die enough times to get a hang of it (Soldiers are not hopeless.)

I am not missing two levels of the mentioned ability it is very good as it is.

 

[S o l d i e r]

Force users should have slight edge over Troopers when it comes to martial arts (slow get up is totally justified in my opinion.) If you get grabbed by Soldier they will drill you with bullets shortly after. A 1/3 unit being able to kill someone worth one whole life is pretty nice. You just have to die enough times to get a hang of it (Soldiers are not hopeless.)

I am not missing two levels of the mentioned ability it is very good as it is.

Close Combat Training 2 was added for a reason. It was also removed for a reason. This means that an intermediate solution is basically needed.

 

[Hellion]

The only good benefits I find with soldiers over commanders is the 3 lives you can get, but even then I don't think it's worth it. I think commander is really the best option overall and soldier needs to be given something back that makes it worth playing over another class.

 

[Fletcher Time]

I think the soldier is fine as it is. Jedi/Sith should have an advantage over them. That's why the soldiers have 3 lives. A skilled soldier can kill a jedi with a little bit of luck and skill, and if he can't oh well, two more lives. Giving a jedi and soldier an equal shot at killing each other in a 1v1 situation doesn't sound right to me since they don't have the same amount of lives. Soldiers have their good sides, and fighting jedi/sith is not one of them. Play as an anti-jedi/sith class for that.

 

[S o l d i e r]

I used to play as Soldier a lot, hence my name. Since this patch I lost all will to play them any more. I get raped by Jedi/Sith each round. Getting pushed, for example, means certain death. Sometimes I manage to get a lucky kill on Jedi/Sith, but that's just rare. If the Jedi/Sith is really skilled it's virtually impossible to beat them. The only viable strategy of beating them is getting a build with Frag Grenade and E-11 and encountering the Jedi/Sith in question in each of your 3 lives, and even then a skilled Jedi/Sith can deal with that easily.

Giving a jedi and soldier an equal shot at killing each other in a 1v1 situation doesn't sound right to me since they don't have the same amount of lives.

You see, the problem is that that ratio of a chance between a Jedi/Sith and a Soldier to beat each other is way off in favour of the Jedi/Sith.

 

[k4far]

I used to play as Soldier a lot, hence my name. Since this patch I lost all will to play them any more. I get raped by Jedi/Sith each round. Getting pushed, for example, means certain death. Sometimes I manage to get a lucky kill on Jedi/Sith, but that's just rare. If the Jedi/Sith is really skilled it's virtually impossible to beat them. The only viable strategy of beating them is getting a build with Frag Grenade and E-11 and encountering the Jedi/Sith in question in each of your 3 lives, and even then a skilled Jedi/Sith can deal with that easily.

You see, the problem is that that ratio of a chance between a Jedi/Sith and a Soldier to beat each other is way off in favour of the Jedi/Sith.

it is fair.

Soldiers are not for killing Sith/Jedi one on one. They are marksman dummies, so more vital teammates can play freely. Good for distracting Mando/SBD/Deka, killing Heroes/Bounty Hunters. Spraying certain spots so enemy snipers won't harras your team as much - the main role. Pushing so Your team can advance. Soldier should rarely win with a Jedi/Sith, only if opponent is careless.
If you stick to the group you will kill plenty of enemies. I like Soldier. if I can count on my team I can do really well.

I see where you are going with this... Six of your ayeyye mates took Jedi and you are the only Soldier - It won't end well. You will leave with bad taste in mouth. Along Soldier there should always be other classes to help each other out.

 

[S o l d i e r]

Spraying certain spots so enemy snipers won't harras your team as much - the main role.

If that's the main role of a class then they should kill themselves immediately when the round starts.

 

[k4far]

If that's the main role of a class then they should kill themselves immediately when the round starts.

You get a lot of kills by doing this.


You would do better with Mando rushing, sniping & ambushing. I would do better as a Soldier, being cautious and supportiv3. Do no5 imagine Soldier as equal to more potent classes.

 

[S o l d i e r]

Do no5 imagine Soldier as equal to more potent classes.

I think the main postulate of MB2 is that all classes should be equally powerful. Each class should have weaknesses towards some classes and strengths towards other, so as to make a system of countering (class 1 beats class 2, class 3 beats class 1, class 2 beats class 3), but so that none of those strengths and weaknesses are so great as to cause imbalance or total dominance of one class above another.

 

[k4far]

I do not see Soldier taking Deka head on, never. Also nerfing Deka to match the Soldier - not happening.
We can not be equal that is the truth.

 

[S o l d i e r]

I do not see Soldier taking Deka head on, never. Also nerfing Deka to match the Soldier - not happening.
We can not be equal that is the truth.

Dekas are the most imbalanced class out there, they have great strengths and great weaknesses. Even a Soldier with only a pistol can take on the Deka in the right circumstances, however, in other circumstances they won't stand a chance. That's why I already complained about Deka imbalance a while back: MBII Development: Looking to the future.
And when I said a Soldier with a pistol can take on a Deka, I meant this - watch this video at 0:56:

 

[k4far]

Goal is to play appropiately as each class against any opponent. As Soldier will meet demise heading forward on his own. Deka will die from one swing, pulse rockets, being surrounded. It is hard to pull off everything perfectly each time, but that's the fun one time you fail the other you succeed it is a team game. Teams are "various" that is the factor fueling lots of discussions not the classes. Classes are fine, not perfectly but good enough.

I do agree Deka might be too strong. I would lower the fire rate by little.

 

[S o l d i e r]

Goal is to play appropiately as each class against any opponent. As Soldier will meet demise heading forward on his own. Deka will die from one swing, pulse rockets, being surrounded. It is hard to pull off everything perfectly each time, but that's the fun one time you fail the other you succeed it is a team game. Teams are "various" that is the factor fueling lots of discussions not the classes. Classes are fine, not perfectly but good enough.

I do agree Deka might be too strong. I would lower the fire rate by little.

The problem in MB2 is that servers have 4-8 players most of the time. This is supposed to be a team game with great variety and it is designed like that, but by servers being such a low pop, it just won't work as it is intended.
Still I would rather the biggest power gaps between classes, such as Soldier vs Jedi, Soldier vs Deka and Deka vs everyone except ARC and Jedi, were smaller to fit with the smaller power gaps of most other Class vs Class combinations for more balance.

 

[k4far]

We have to work out what would bring new people here not how to balance classes further, but I guess we are yet to reach this conclusion. If we will be making changes for small group we will end up having additional work later.

 

[S o l d i e r]

We have to work out what would bring new people here not how to balance classes further, but I guess we are yet to reach this conclusion. If we will be making changes for small group we will end up having additional work later.

Balance is a very important part of gameplay. You can have the biggest game ever, if there is no balance it will suck. Balancing what you have isn't as hard as creating new stuff. Still the sabering system was changed over and over again and calibrated to the smallest detail and balanced. These are not the changes for a small group, practically everyone would benefit from this.

 

[k4far]

We would gain mor4 from having twice as much players than having clqsses twice as balanced. Pressing matter is the activity, and activity is not "average" and not because of the balance. If I had any power in this I would fight Dotf plague with a rework of the most promising maps like sDestroyer, making a sequel to Smuggler & Corellia. New class for each side, plenty of ideas "realistic" ideas.




btw.
Maybe let us rename this topic to "What should MB focus on right now?".
I have come and gone offtop so far haha.

 

[S o l d i e r]

We would gain mor4 from having twice as much players than having clqsses twice as balanced. Pressing matter is the activity, and activity is not "average" and not because of the balance. If I had any power in this I would fight Dotf plague with a rework of the most promising maps like sDestroyer, making a sequel to Smuggler & Corellia. New class for each side, plenty of ideas "realistic" ideas.

I'd rather there was new stuff too. I didn't say they should prioritise balancing over new stuff, but it is very important too and shouldn't be ignored, especially as it isn't a hard thing to do once you know what to balance and how.

btw.
Maybe let us rename this topic to "What should MB focus on right now?".
I have come and gone offtop so far haha.

A new topic name would be misleading for the first part of the thread, I'm not changing it.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

The key to using Sold now, is to abuse the grenade cheese. That is how they balanced the class. If you aren't holding a grenade, then you aren't playing the class correctly.

Stupid? Yes, but that is the way it is now.

 

[Jediknight Fou]

We have to work out what would bring new people here not how to balance classes further, but I guess we are yet to reach this conclusion. If we will be making changes for small group we will end up having additional work later ...

Balancing the game would attract new players.
I guess many come because of jedi/sith and the current "balance" would just drive them away.
Myself quitted this game for 5 month because sabervsgun is annoying at the moment and have some things to relearn now, but all i can say is, it feels really horrible. If sabervsgun had be like this in 0.1.9 when i joined mb2, i would not have played this mod for this long time.
So it is important and never wrong to discuss balancing.

If I had any power in this I would fight Dotf plague with a rework of the most promising maps like sDestroyer, making a sequel to Smuggler & Corellia. New class for each side, plenty of ideas "realistic" ideas.

Undead Deathstar was great, i wouldnt mind some nice reworks like this.

Now that Close Combat Training 2 was removed from Open, Soldiers are somewhat lacking and can be very easily killed by Jedi/Sith. This would give some more mobility to Soldiers when facing Jedi/Sith and it wouldn't be overpowered as the old Close Combat Training 2.

Soldiers dont need more mobility, they are strong enough for a 3 live class and shouldnt have more chances against a saberist than a 1 live class, also they shouldnt have the chances they currently have.