Bring back nudge and "fix" flinch + other tweaks

[Gargos]

Hello

I have noticed that flinch is not always working as it is supposed to, but it is not necessarily a bug. It is most likely because the range is set too close for flinch to activate. Look at the demonstration video that I will link here:

As you can see, I hit the jedi while he swings but no flinch occurs. I believe it is because I was too far away. That is why I propose that we buff flinch; make its range wider. Now I know this sounds like another jedi/sith nerf to make them "even weaker" but to balance this out I think we should bring nudge back. If jedi/sith get flinched easier then it would be fine to introduce nudge back IMO.

LIGHTNING:
I am pretty sure lightning stun is still the exact same as it was before the patch (even tho it was supposed to be nerfed). I am still getting stunned for such a long time that I cannot even fire my weapon before I am sabered. It is rather frustrating because there is hardly anything you can do in such situation. Answer is to nerf it properly like grip was or completely rework the force power.

 

[Aizencin]

I dont care about flinch because im not an open player, but i honestly think that the only ones that should talk about nudge beign on the game are the people that plays duel mode, because its where it most affects it, despite i liked nudge, nudge completily changes duel system and i dont think its a good idea to change a whole gamemode just to '''fix/balance'' a single class from open mode.

 

[Gumba]

I dont care about flinch because im not an open player, but i honestly think that the only ones that should talk about nudge beign on the game are the people that plays duel mode, because its where it most affects it, despite i liked nudge, nudge completily changes duel system and i dont think its a good idea to change a whole gamemode just to '''fix/balance'' a single class from open mode.

Abusing nudge to get instaswings on gunners is a problem for open mode

 

[NERO]

fgsdgs

Guess I won't have to like it then. More 'testing' being more like more tedious and less intense.

Besides, deflect is still broken unless gunners outnumber a jedi and jedi can nigh-completely negate all knockdowns so that's two tools down the drain anyway.

 

[Tempest]

Boosting range by a few units ought to be considered. I greatly dislike how unreliable flinch is. It is very much a 50/50 whether it activates or not. The only instance I can rely upon it is when the attacker was already in facehugging range. Generally a target that runs towards me will not flinch unless I land a second hit.

Consistency is important for a feature like this. Right now it's not beneficial for either party. You essentially gamble with these strikes.

If flinch feels too strong after being consistent, either increase damage reduction, reduce FP drain on getting hit or make flinches essentially just visualized interrupts -> Allow user to instantly get out of the stagger via a follow-up input like holding block or attack.

Inconsistency is not a desired result.

The range probably does need to be boosted slightly to account for situations like that. I think the issue that most have is that it either feels inconsistent (from gunner perspective) or there's not a lot one can do in some situations (i.e. someone holding m1 as SBD/clone or m2 with any other rapid fire gun). I have some adjustments to be made for it (that also go with the FP drain rate and jazz) that I need to write up that I think will help both sides of this.

P.S. nudge = cancer

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Am I hearing this right. Are gunners complaining about Jedi in this patch? And did Stassin just say that Jedi is easier than gunner?

 

[Gargos]

Am I hearing this right. Are gunners complaining about Jedi in this patch? And did Stassin just say that Jedi is easier than gunner?

Personally I find it easier to play saberist. I think it is still quite balanced, only problem being the inconsistency of flinch and current lightning stun length (which was supposed to be nerfed) that irritates me.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Personally I find it easier to play saberist. I think it is still quite balanced, only problem being the inconsistency of flinch and current lightning stun length (which was supposed to be nerfed) that irritates me.

I suppose that depends on what you're doing with the class. If you have to fight other saberists then Jedi/Sith has the highest learning curve. If you're fighting terrible gunners, then yes it is pretty easy. In 1.3 it was actually pretty hard to get away with being a bad Jedi, with all of this ridiculous damage resistance it is now much tougher to kill a crappy one.

I've always wanted Jedi vs Gunner to be a skillful environment, but atm it is kind of bullshit on both sides for various reasons, and you need to rebalance a lot more than just flinch and lightning.

 

[Gargos]

I am just bumping the old thread to show the most ridiculous moment where flinch did not work:

 

[Gumba]

I am just bumping the old thread to show the most ridiculous moment where flinch did not work:

All thats missing now is a dev saying he was out of range

 

[Gargos]

For the sake of argument here is another that I found from my demo folder. The one I just posted before happened today on US server. This video is from EU server but from the same build:

 

[Hexodious]

Nice finds Gargos, I agree these should be fixed alongside an increase of flinch range 100-200 and re-balance vs rapid fire guns.

 

[Rosh+]

also like to point out that flinch when it comes to duals/staff, but mostly duals, is broken as all hell.

most of the time you shoot somebody swinging at you with one or the other, they just don't flinch at all, though it seems to happen more with duals.

 

[Gargos]

also like to point out that flinch when it comes to duals/staff, but mostly duals, is broken as all hell.

most of the time you shoot somebody swinging at you with one or the other, they just don't flinch at all, though it seems to happen more with duals.

I am not entirely sure about that. Due to duals and staff having twice the saber area compared to a single saber just shooting past the blade may look like flinch failed. Would need to get some demos about that and do slow motion.

 

[Rosh+]

I am not entirely sure about that. Due to duals and staff having twice the saber area compared to a single saber just shooting past the blade may look like flinch failed. Would need to get some demos about that and do slow motion.

I'll look through my demos, and find something.

I play a lot of SBD, and I usually kick a lot of ass with it, given that's it's the most auto-pilot class in the game next to Clone, and I find that dual users usually give me a lot of trouble compared to staff, or single sabers.

 

[MoonmanMoonman]

And they called me a crybaby for complaining about flinch not fucking working, back at you nerds.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

For the sake of argument here is another that I found from my demo folder. The one I just posted before happened today on US server. This video is from EU server but from the same build:

As me and Garg drunkenly discussed, I think this might be tied to swingblock somehow. Note how the sith is in walking animation and not running animation. There might be a case where the flinch check falls through the cracks.

 

[Gargos]

As me and Garg drunkenly discussed, I think this might be tied to swingblock somehow. Note how the sith is in walking animation and not running animation. There might be a case where the flinch check falls through the cracks.

Indeed we did. I havent got to (been too lazy) to test the theory but I think I know the reason.

 

[SeV]

Indeed we did. I havent got to (been too lazy) to test the theory but I think I know the reason.

I remember clearly an instance a while back where you were playing as darth vader and jump swung towards me. I didn't miss but shot you in the foot. You didn't flinch even though you were close enough for it. It may have smth to do with client vs server like in counter strike with interp and all that, or it could just be a coding bug, no idea. But it does exist.

 

[S o l d i e r]

I have another flinch bug, and this one is quite outrageous. See how the BH was way out of the flinch range when he flinched me/stopped my swing:

 

[Gargos]

Soldier, that is swingblock. If you had not blockd and just swang, then you would have taken dmg but as long as you had not died, the swing would have been executed normally.