Appo's Arc Feedback for [CURRENT UPDATE NUMBER HERE]

CC-1119 'Appo'

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Bumping this up.

Yeah, you're right @Liniyka_xddd - was just rusty at the time I think.

As for ARC currently - I still think EMPs need a cost reduction down to 5pts. They just aren't worth 10 with the amount of follow up you need to do to finish off a target affected by EMPs compared to Frags, Concs or TD. That being said, everything else feels spot on.

I'm not sure if any changes have been made to the EE-3, but I remember last time it was causing me to roll whenever I was shot by the sniper mode, whilst the proj, ruptor and such sniper weapons did not - this is something that really threw me off back then, not sure if it's been fixed or not, but last time it was causing me to roll in whichever direction i was holding after being shot.

I still think dual pistols should get some new animations, as it looks incredibly awkward with 1 pistol hanging off to the side like that or jittering around, but that's low priority/not related to balance :p
 
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Onysfx

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@CC-1119 "Appo'
I mentioned this at least a year ago, but I agree pulse nades should be cheaper, not 5 points though, 6-8 is fair I'd say. Remember, they still knockdown, drain ammo clip, have a decent AOE, plus take a chunk of armor. But ya, a bit cheaper than 10 points would help a lot.

Here is my idea for rockets:

Level 1: 10 points, 1 rocket
Level 2: 10 points, 1 more rocket, total of 2 rockets
Level 3: 20 points, 2 more rockets, total of 4 rockets.

I feel this setup is more practical to be honest. I guess you could argue it's a bit OP, but arc is supposed to be a mobile class, not a walking tank. They are supposed to be mobile units with a diverse arsenal.
 

CC-1119 'Appo'

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Don't pulse nades take all shield from non-deka?
I haven't used them in a while since they were awful last time, but the last time I did use them you basically had to be standing within roughly 3m of them in order to have like 75% of your shield drained, i wasn't able to consistently drain my shield completely unless I stood on-top of it.
 
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Bumping this up.

Yeah, you're right @Liniyka_xddd - was just rusty at the time I think.

As for ARC currently - I still think EMPs need a cost reduction down to 5pts. They just aren't worth 10 with the amount of follow up you need to do to finish off a target affected by EMPs compared to Frags, Concs or TD. That being said, everything else feels spot on.

I'm not sure if any changes have been made to the EE-3, but I remember last time it was causing me to roll whenever I was shot by the sniper mode, whilst the proj, ruptor and such sniper weapons did not - this is something that really threw me off back then, not sure if it's been fixed or not, but last time it was causing me to roll in whichever direction i was holding after being shot.

I still think dual pistols should get some new animations, as it looks incredibly awkward with 1 pistol hanging off to the side like that or jittering around, but that's low priority/not related to balance :p
The EE-3 sniper mode still causes me to roll in my experience and I kind of agree with you since the best arc build(imo) is the one without nades which shows how they're not really cost-effective for what they are supposed to be
 

CC-1119 'Appo'

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The EE-3 sniper mode still causes me to roll in my experience and I kind of agree with you since the best arc build(imo) is the one without nades which shows how they're not really cost-effective for what they are supposed to be
I mean the issue is that taking grenades or PLX or anything other than dex 3 stam 3 armor 3 is basically just playing a worse clone - even the sniper on the ARC, while nice on the class due to your mobility combined with a sniper system, is generally worthless considering you can play hero with a proj instead - which also gets a much better secondary weapon in the form of the E-11 for close range defense and a much better primary sniper, capable of OHKs on most classes.

That's before you get to the issue where it requires so much follow up that it just isn't viable - if I don't push through and make sure the people hit by that EMP are dead within 5 seconds, the effect pretty much wears off against most opponents.
 
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Onysfx

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I mean the issue is that taking grenades or PLX or anything other than dex 3 stam 3 armor 3 is basically just playing a worse clone - even the sniper on the ARC, while nice on the class due to your mobility combined with a sniper system, is generally worthless considering you can play hero with a proj instead - which also gets a much better secondary weapon in the form of the E-11 for close range defense and a much better primary sniper, capable of OHKs on most classes.

That's before you get to the issue where it requires so much follow up that it just isn't viable - if I don't push through and make sure the people hit by that EMP are dead within 5 seconds, the effect pretty much wears off against most opponents.
Agree on this 100 percent. Nades being cheaper would help a lot with the class IMO, plus my rocket suggestion.
 
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I feel like if pulse nades are going to be made cheaper, their effect on dekas should be lessened a bit. A deka without hull 2 is pretty much a guaranteed kill once they've been hit by an EMP.
 

CC-1119 'Appo'

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I feel like if pulse nades are going to be made cheaper, their effect on dekas should be lessened a bit. A deka without hull 2 is pretty much a guaranteed kill once they've been hit by an EMP.
On their own? sure. In a team fight? no. A frag grenade or a thermal detonator can be useful in a teamfight regardless of how prepared the enemy is, as all it needs to do is be in proximity to an enemy and can be bounced around corners to lessen detonation timer - the same can be done with a pulse grenade but the issue is that the pulse grenade then requires a follow up.

Where a frag grenade might kill or seriously injure someone and thus make the follow up so much easier, an EMP basically will either do nothing outside of draining a small percentage of shield if not close enough or will drain a magazine at worst, meaning that for the most part if you don't push in there and follow that up within five seconds, the enemy is practically in the same state they were in prior to you throwing the grenade, making it a rather worthless investment.
 
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On their own? sure. In a team fight? no. A frag grenade or a thermal detonator can be useful in a teamfight regardless of how prepared the enemy is, as all it needs to do is be in proximity to an enemy and can be bounced around corners to lessen detonation timer - the same can be done with a pulse grenade but the issue is that the pulse grenade then requires a follow up.

Where a frag grenade might kill or seriously injure someone and thus make the follow up so much easier, an EMP basically will either do nothing outside of draining a small percentage of shield if not close enough or will drain a magazine at worst, meaning that for the most part if you don't push in there and follow that up within five seconds, the enemy is practically in the same state they were in prior to you throwing the grenade, making it a rather worthless investment.
this, but isn't there also knockback.
 
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I think a good weight to balance the nade would be to use blobs/ions as comparison. Since clones most of the twice get twice the number of blobs/ions per perk invested(2*units/round). How much would that be for an ARC (units/round) (since the nades have the effect of both ions and blobs.)
 

CC-1119 'Appo'

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I think a good weight to balance the nade would be to use blobs/ions as comparison. Since clones most of the twice get twice the number of blobs/ions per perk invested(2*units/round). How much would that be for an ARC (units/round) (since the nades have the effect of both ions and blobs.)
ARC can only have one life so it'd just be 2 for 10 with a max of 6, the issue is however that ions & blobs are much easier to make use of and much harder to counter as they require much more precise timing on force push to redirect the threat while grenades are easily pushed aside. Honestly though, you could probably solve this issue mostly just by reducing the EMP cost to 5 pts as then I could simply buy one and if it does accomplish nothing, I can still have a relatively solid loadout.

That being said, as an ideal solution in my personal opinion, I wouldn't mind them losing the concussion knockdown effect if it meant they would also either drain far more armour (like 60 - 70 for the very edge of the detonation and full armour/shield within close proximity of the grenade) or dealt some health damage alongside, like 20 - 40 hp spread throughout the blast radius.

Then I'd probably spend 10pts and sacrifice some ammo/armor to make use of them because I could simply use bouncing to reduce said detonation timer and treat them like a weaker frag with some extra bonuses, I no longer have to follow up on the grenade for it to have had some noticeable effect against most opponents.
 

Onysfx

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ARC can only have one life so it'd just be 2 for 10 with a max of 6, the issue is however that ions & blobs are much easier to make use of and much harder to counter as they require much more precise timing on force push to redirect the threat while grenades are easily pushed aside. Honestly though, you could probably solve this issue mostly just by reducing the EMP cost to 5 pts as then I could simply buy one and if it does accomplish nothing, I can still have a relatively solid loadout.
Now that you put it that way, I have to agree with you. Pulse nades should be only 5 points each. The only thing I fear though, is pulse nade spam. You can completely destroy the imps with that type of thing, plus the arc will have more points for rockets and a rifle.
 

CC-1119 'Appo'

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Bump. Added a new issue to the OP, something to do with the animation freeze that seems to occur if an ARC is shot repeatedly during a getup animation, where they just slide along with the force of the shots and can't do anything/the animation for getting back up doesn't complete and seems to reset with every shot.
 
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Bump. Added a new issue to the OP, something to do with the animation freeze that seems to occur if an ARC is shot repeatedly during a getup animation, where they just slide along with the force of the shots and can't do anything/the animation for getting back up doesn't complete and seems to reset with every shot.
This occurs with every class. It's why moves like jumpkick can get you killed if you receive knockback using them. You have to be stationary or the game refuses to put you back into the "in control" state.

other than dex 3 stam 3 armor 3
you can run stam2 if you're good with using aircrouch to manage your stamina. stam3 is immortality though

if one level of emp nades gave you two of them, i'd actually take the fuckers. i've had low "important skill" builds before and i'd definitely take points out of necessities if i could actually shit out nades nonstop.

i also think arc should have a shotgun, like the one in the force awakens full authentic map. i also think shit like soldiers should have the flamethrower gun from fa (they're too slow for them to be a balance problem) so what the fuck do i know
 

Tylenol

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Might as well throw it out there, but what about removing or reducing the cooldown for side rolls when using the class special?

It's no where close to even being as effective as forward lunge or back roll, yet it has the same cool down? It seems a bit silly and doesn't make side rolls as effective as they possible could be.
 

DaloLorn

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This occurs with every class. It's why moves like jumpkick can get you killed if you receive knockback using them. You have to be stationary or the game refuses to put you back into the "in control" state.
Yeah, I remember it occurring fairly frequently if I missed a speed lunge as Jedi. I'd be locked into the final stages of the lunge animation for as long as I was being shot in the back, which was usually equivalent to my remaining lifespan.

if one level of emp nades gave you two of them, i'd actually take the fuckers. i've had low "important skill" builds before and i'd definitely take points out of necessities if i could actually shit out nades nonstop.

i also think arc should have a shotgun, like the one in the force awakens full authentic map. i also think shit like soldiers should have the flamethrower gun from fa (they're too slow for them to be a balance problem) so what the fuck do i know
Those ideas do sound interesting...
 

CC-1119 'Appo'

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if one level of emp nades gave you two of them, i'd actually take the fuckers. i've had low "important skill" builds before and i'd definitely take points out of necessities if i could actually shit out nades nonstop.

i also think arc should have a shotgun, like the one in the force awakens full authentic map. i also think shit like soldiers should have the flamethrower gun from fa (they're too slow for them to be a balance problem) so what the fuck do i know
Pulse grenades are actually pretty solid now, they got a pretty hefty boost last patch.

Shotgun snipers are already bad enough but people hugging corners with shotguns for ridiculous damage sounds like utter garbage for gameplay, with people hugging corners for one or two shot kills even more than they already do... I don't have an opinion on the flamethrower though, as I never use it even on Mando.
 
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removing the cooldown for side rolls
You should do this so I can show everyone how broken siderolls would be if they were infinite.

Shotgun snipers
ok but i actually remember the shotgun from FA having really bad spread

also if that's a problem just make buying it disable access to the sniper LOL

arc is supposed to be "i have a gun for everything class" but so far it just has dual pistols for shooting at people more down a hallway, a rifle for shooting at people more down a hallway, and a scope for shooting at people more down a bigger hallway, and then rockets which are definitely not getting shot down a hallway because the boresight for these things are his butthole

i want a shotgun
 
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