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Noob

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i play arc with dex 3 and stam 1. wall acrobatics dont drain your stam only sprint and roll do afaik
 

Lessen

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oh, interesting. I wildly underutilize wall acrobatics. This is a good arc thread lol
 

CC-1119 'Appo'

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i play arc with dex 3 and stam 1. wall acrobatics dont drain your stam only sprint and roll do afaik
You can't even shoot while sprinting with stam 1 so that's pretty much out of the question. Also, acrobatics do drain stamina but not a significant amount - it's regenned in a single tick.

You still take 2x drain with stam 2 while shooting and sprinting though, which again, makes you pretty easy to wear down by even just a single sith.
 
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StarWarsGeek

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since the sniper is 100% accurate while moving if you have Dex 3, even with a level 1 M5.
Holy crap, I didn't know that. I thought you needed level 2 + dex 3 to get the 100% moving accuracy snipe shots. Turns out level 2 is only for unscoped running accuracy. You just potentially freed up 6 pts in my arc build. :p Unfortunately, I don't really have anywhere better to put those points since I usually run this:
Pistol 3
M5 2
Sniper
Dex 3
Stam 0
Armor 3
Ammo 1
Now I might shift those 6 pts from M5 2 into Stam 1 during heavy sith spam or ammo 2 for long rounds.

You take 3x stam drain while shooting w/ sprint active with anything less than stam 2 and 2x drain with stam 2.

This makes you VERY easy to wear down by even just a single sith.
You can do just fine even against multiple sith with stam 0 since dex3 get ups take no stamina anyway. Unless I'm trying to solo a horde of 3+ sith, I've never really found myself wishing I could sprint more. Occasional acrobatics, super accurate weapons, flinch, and not having to worry about push/pull is already really good against sith.
 

CC-1119 'Appo'

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You can do just fine even against multiple sith with stam 0 since dex3 get ups take no stamina anyway. Unless I'm trying to solo a horde of 3+ sith, I've never really found myself wishing I could sprint more. Occasional acrobatics, super accurate weapons, flinch, and not having to worry about push/pull is already really good against sith.
It's 99% due to the stamina 3 reduction in cost to stamina to fire while moving for me, which allows you to fight for significantly longer and prevents a single sith from wearing you down using lightning or forcing you to sprint and fire by getting close/dex lunge, etc.

Also comes in handy vs other gunners because an ARC that can't sprint is basically just a shitty ET - that movement is what keeps you alive since your M5 certainly won't within E-11 range.

Again though, depends heavily on the Sith. A damn good Sith will destroy you extremely quickly if your stamina runs low, which is what stamina 0, 1 or even rank 2 at times, will do to you. I almost never run out of stamina with stam 3 because of that regen rate and the reduction to stamina cost while shooting, allowing me to shoot without any real concern for the extra stamina drain and thus provide more pressure offensively and defensively.

ARC is very much a class for which movement is life, if it stops moving, it dies easily. Without Stamina, it's a shitty ET, without Dexterity, it's a shitty clone.

I actually do still like the base M5, at level 2. I respect your comparisons of it to the E-11 and Pistols, but even with the lower DPS and the absence of bounce shots, it's still the only weapon in the game that can lay down a TOTALLY accurate (single-point) stream of (fairly) high fire rate head-level fire while sprinting. The pistols have more damage per shot and bouncies, sure, but it takes a lot more luck (or a bizarre amount of skill) to land truly successive headshots with the pistols. I think the M5 is more /immediately/ deadly, because it fires a stream at a single point rather than two points. It makes you a lot more likely to land two or three quick headshots (if your aim is already good and you're not relying on the "spread" of pistols to "help" you).

I remember making some seemingly-not-terrible players rage a bit using a level 2 M5 and some really good aim so I was getting constant headshots while dodging around, buuuut I'll have to play around with it more. I think I also remember asking a visibly really-good-ARC why he didn't use the M5 and iirc he said it was too good, lol.

But dualie bounce shots are fantaaaaaaaaaaaaaastic for charging angrily down DOTF Main hurting everyone all the time regardless of cover, and also ofc great against Sith in lots of areas. And dualie fp drain is wonderful. I need to seriously compare dualie fp drain and M5 fp drain to be totally sure though.
It's a nice trait, but you'll also never get to use it properly unless you're fighting really bad players.

Trying to put down that accurate steam of suppression fire on most maps just ends up with you getting sniped or, in the situations where it can be utilized, the enemies have already run away from your advancing team rather than your ability to shoot 100 percent accurately on the move.

The pistols are easier to use IMO - the only reason I don't use them over the m5 at all times is, as said, the animations are dogshit. Crosshair convergence is practicable and easily fixed with a bit of muscle memory between each shot to sway slightly left and right, if anything, it makes it easier since it aims about as naturally as you can in MB2 - with people moving their crosshair far left/far right of people to aim and hit them as they strafe.

That being said, the M5 isn't bad, but it's not worth 16 points considering the other options available to the ARC class. I'm not sure who was saying that the M5 is too good though, because the only other option are the pistols and those are miles ahead of the M5 in terms of literally every stat that affects weapon performance, and all for 2 pts less than the M5.

FP drain isn't a huge issue though, it's about the same but the pistols shoot faster so apply more drain in a shorter time period.
 
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LanceOfLonginus

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The clone sniper rifle is very strong. The value you have in being able to put ~300 dmg down range(before modifiers) with rapid fire and fast projectile speed makes it fantastic in pushing down a hall.

It's plain counterpart the M5 is just a means to an ends
 

CC-1119 'Appo'

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The clone sniper rifle is very strong. The value you have in being able to put ~300 dmg down range(before modifiers) with rapid fire and fast projectile speed makes it fantastic in pushing down a hall.

It's plain counterpart the M5 is just a means to an ends
This requires your enemy to be pretty damn bad to be honest, or you've gotta have top tier prediction skills. It's nice to be able to provide suppression fire down a hallway, but a single reflex proj neuters the playstyle completely.

It's no where near as reliable as say, an EE-3 snipe, it exists literally for the sole purpose of suppression or sniping solds which, to be fair, you can still kill more effectively with pistol spam as they're pinpoint, cheaper and have bounce shots to negate cover.
 

LanceOfLonginus

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The arc has two stellar tools to route snipers. It can counter snipe with rapid fire, and bounce shot in cover. Sure peeking is problematic but that's how it always is. A bounty hunter will still be hurting if you land 1-2 shots in return.

Yes sniper vs sniper is dangerous, as an arc you have unorthodox mobility to help you in the fight

If as you say it exists for suppression than the arc really does have two complimentary tools vs other snipers. He can force you into cover, and still hit you while you are in it with bounces.
 

CC-1119 'Appo'

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The arc has two stellar tools to route snipers. It can counter snipe with rapid fire, and bounce shot in cover. Sure peeking is problematic but that's how it always is. A bounty hunter will still be hurting if you land 1-2 shots in return.

Yes sniper vs sniper is dangerous, as an arc you have unorthodox mobility to help you in the fight

If as you say it exists for suppression than the arc really does have two complimentary tools vs other snipers. He can force you into cover, and still hit you while you are in it with bounces.
That mobility is nearly impossible to utilize while scoped mind you, since it's like.. 6x zoom? makes it nearly impossible to accurately wallrun and fire.

In regards to a BH being hurt... their proj will either instakill you or leave you at about 10hp 10 armour if they hit you in the torso/head with a proj, 2 m5 hits unless they're headshots will barely take down 100 armour, like 7 armour left. Ruptor will instakill you even on a bodyshot.

I'd avoid discussing the pistols, they are mechanically better than m5 in every way. That's something that needs nerfing later.

Ruptor completely negates suppression assuming it is setup as you move up towards the location it is covering, they get the first shot assuming they're a defender or they have good positioning, the M5 sniper does not serve a suppression role unless you have team mates that are already in place to prevent the enemy from lining up a shot at which point it's pretty much useless.

A single ARC cannot suppress a single sniper at a distance using either regular m5 or sniper m5 fire unless that sniper is unable to fire accurately, which, if we're assuming that both players are of a high enough skill level that the ARC can shoot accurately while wallrunning in scope mode, means that he will be shot down from that wall very quickly - either due to hitscan ruptor or knockback proj or even the preferable quickscope-3 (ee-3) from a mando.

The m5 Sniper does not serve a functional role outside of LARP - you're better off playing hero if you want to fill the marksman role.
 

LanceOfLonginus

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I stand by it's strength and uniqueness as a weapon. I would instead propose that projectile rifle get a serious looking at. It was good before projectile speed buffs. Now you can't even peek against a good sniper.

If you compare every weapon to the proj than yes they all suck. That's silly though. Let's just fix proj

I would like to see a return of perfect accuracy to both the Mando Ee3 and arc sniper at all times. Why hurt them for making use of their unique ability for mobility
 
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Lessen

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The m5 Sniper does not serve a functional role outside of LARP
What if you have good sniper aim but you need to kill a lot of soldiers in a short time? :0

I mean, that's certainly a case where it's better'n proj. It has good "theoretical" strengths, it's just hard to use perfectly, and you may be right that it's impossible to use well enough to justify its use in most cases, buuut liiiiiiike what if there was someone with the Arc Fu skills of you and the sniping skill of AOD James Harden? What if, y'know.

Also regarding using scope while wallrunning: iirc M5 and EE-3 can both quickscope (fire immediately after scoping), so you can start a wallrun while not scoped and then scope once you're up. It'd just take some crazy good instincts, and practice.
 

CC-1119 'Appo'

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What if you have good sniper aim but you need to kill a lot of soldiers in a short time? :0

I mean, that's certainly a case where it's better'n proj. It has good "theoretical" strengths, it's just hard to use perfectly, and you may be right that it's impossible to use well enough to justify its use in most cases, buuut liiiiiiike what if there was someone with the Arc Fu skills of you and the sniping skill of AOD James Harden? What if, y'know.

Also regarding using scope while wallrunning: iirc M5 and EE-3 can both quickscope (fire immediately after scoping), so you can start a wallrun while not scoped and then scope once you're up. It'd just take some crazy good instincts, and practice.
Yeah sure, in the circumstance that you've got the skill to pull it off, it is possible. But it would also require an incredible amount of skill, practice, prediction and luck. So much so that it's practically only possible if you played this game constantly - seven days a week and practiced it endlessly. So while it is possible, it's also extremely unlikely anyone will ever make the commitment to get to that level.

When something takes more skill than the prediction and practice required to do well with an ARC-FU playstyle, you might be going too far in terms of skill investment required for, essentially, minimal reward. Since you just get a scoped version of the godcaster without the option to unscope for that damage.

I do agree that it has a function in terms of rapid soldier elimination but, to be fair, I'd just take a wook with godcaster or a clone with CR3 minigun, it makes dealing with those situations a non-issue. Perhaps what might be worth trying is reduce the zoom level on the m5's scope mode, this way you could use it and still maintain situational awareness or at least, a greater level (as required by ARC-FU) in order to stay viable.

Since if you're standing still, you're basically just a worse proj sniper or worse wookie w/ godcaster, there need to be a few changes to make it more viable/easier to use while wallrunning if that is indeed the intention for this weapon/weapon attachment.
 
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Scoped M5 doesn't need a buff, that's for damn sure. I have no idea what are you complaining about Appo, but that gun is braindead-level easy. Like, if you get rifle 1 with scope and full dex + stamina, you can basically bunnyhop around (which seriously throws enemies' aim off, since no other gunner class can jump like that), and spam the HELL out of that sniper mode. It requires no skill whatsoever, you just need to have a decent aim to actually land the snipes. And since they are always accurate, it's not that hard to do.

Before the ammo buff, you would run dry pretty fast if you did that. But now, this gun is extremely good.
 
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