Appo's Arc Feedback for [CURRENT UPDATE NUMBER HERE]

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I'll be updating this thread as updates continue rolling out, will just keep tweaking this OP/posting replies with updates on the glorious state of balance for ARCs and the priority things I think could do with tweaking.

Archive (Fixed issues)
Westar M5 - AMMO
Westar M5 desperately needs loving ATM, I’ve already posted a suggestion thread for this but will gather what I’ve proposed there in here too.
The reserve ammunition for the M5 is far too low. As it stands, I find myself running out of ammo constantly, the magazine is fine but the reserve just isn't enough. You can't compete with snipers and you can't compete with soldiers at the moment so the M5's place, with or without a sniper scope, is pretty much nonexistent as other classes do it much better and you can just take the dual pistols which are just flat out better than the m5 in terms of stats.

I'd suggest either:
A) reduce the ammo per shot from 2 to 1, then ammo 2 / 3 would be fair because as it stands, you get 18 sniper shots or 180 normal shots with ammo 2 which, unless you're somehow hitting headshots with every single shot, is not enough to kill more than 6 players and that's with a generous accuracy rating of 50%.

B) Increase the reserve ammo. At least 1.5x times what it is now so, 360 for ammo 1, 540 for ammo 2 and around 720 for ammo 3.

Alternatively, you could beef up damage to compensate for low damage overall but, as it stands, I'd generally just take the pistols over the m5 every time if it wasn't for the goddamn awful deadzone of those pistols, you basically have to deliberately misplace your crosshair to fight in close quarters.

Westar M5 – FP Drain
So I don’t know which developer ARC players have pissed off or if I’ve just magically started doing less FP damage but it seems like the Westar M5 has had a stealth nerf for FP drain, I’m routinely running out of ammo firing at a saberist, the guys simply don’t go down and I’m having to resort to the old tactic of heroes, let them swing and then fire, because I can’t break through their swingblock or drain their FP fast enough anymore. Can we get this looked at ASAP? I don’t want anything crazy like deka firepower vs saberists but definitely should be doing more than 4 - 5 FP per shot, more like 8 or so would be fair.

Clone Pistols (dual)
The pistols have some serious issues surrounding them, the same as any other pistols in the game. First of all, the animations are super janky and need a touch up honestly. Secondly and more importantly, the convergence on these guns means that they are so useless at close range without swaying your mouse left/right to compensate for each shot. I'd like to see the alternate firemode on these pistols and in fact all pistols not change from firing both pistols to only one but instead adjust the convergence between close range and long range, so you can specify whether your pistols meet their deadzone at fifteen meters or sixty meters. This should make the pistols more enjoyable to use, balance wise though they are fine. DPS is technically higher on pistols than the M5 and the bounce shot is absolutely brilliant for harassing passive sith players.

Animation freeze
There's an issue, I'm not sure what to call it other than animation freeze, where if an ARC is shot at during a getup animation and continues to be shot at, every shot seems to reset or delay the recovery of the getup. I dunno if it is intentional, but it is not intuitive and can really punish solid plays by penalizing one bad getup with a death as you are functionally stun-locked so long as you are getting hit.

Pulse Nades
These things need some work I’d say increase their AOE range and add some health damage to it or failing that just make them cheaper. 4/6/8 points would be more than fair for what they are, they’re a worse frag, conc or sonic grenade that require a follow up as they don’t deal raw damage and weaken an enemy for the rest of the round. The most they do is drain your magazine and most of your armour, which a frag grenade would also have done while dealing health damage as well.

I think with a lower price we’d also start seeing more of these because as it stands, the cost is too high and means you’ll be basically useless as ARC once those nades are gone if you do decide to go for a nade build, unless you only take one but at that point they are practically worthless. If you don't get that follow up by risking yourself, it is more often than not a waste of 10pts.

Pulse Underbarreled Launcher
Same price for the pulse nades should be applied here, maybe combine the two so you can only have two pulse nades in the launcher and 3 in hand, so instead of 4/6/8 it would be 6/8 for 2 launchable nades? Force the launcher to require M5 rank 1 though, so you can't upgrade your M5 to be laser accurate even while sprinting while also having grenades, give it that choice between either the versatility of a nadelauncher or the accuracy of an upgraded M5.

ARC Dexterity Getup Animation Cancel
So I have an obligation not only to propose changes for things I like, but for things that I know are broken to get fixed. The ARC Dexterity getup animation cancel is one of them. Functionally this is when you press the BLOCK/RELOAD key to switch to a blocking animation while in a getup animation as an ARC. Doing this allows you to instantly get up with a very abrupt snap and no obvious indication to an opponent as to what just happened due to being able to cancel the animation and instantly recover. This is blatantly unintentional and needs to be fixed ASAP.

I do have to stress however, it needs to be fixed without impacting the ability of an ARC to cancel lunges and rolls with an uppercut or a block as both of these are crucial feinting maneuvers to bait Sith into an early swing. The dexterity getup animation cancel however removes most possibilities for a Sith to outplay an ARC player outside of very lucky knockdowns using lightning 3 or pull 3.

"""credentials"""
The second video was edited by @Shady
 
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I think that you are all totally ignoring the fact that pulse grenades drain your whole ammo clip, no matter which class you are, in addition to having even more destructive effects against droidekas and SBDs.

What Dalo said tbh.

It makes sense - I'm fairly certain that it only drains the clip of your current weapon, so switching to melee before the grenade explodes should work.

That's what I tend to do but I usually switch to my pistol, haven't tried fists. I just presume that it drains the ammo of the last weapon you had equipped.
 
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Stassin

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It drains the ammo of the current weapon, if you switch to melee in time it won't drain any of your ammo.
 
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TBH one thing that extremely bothered me about ARC is that I hate the fact they can tank a PROJ HS. I was playing the other day and I headshotted (for a fact I knew I did) an ARC and he had 1 health left and ended up killing me with his rocket. tbh I think a proj should be one shot HS.
 
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TBH one thing that extremely bothered me about ARC is that I hate the fact they can tank a PROJ HS. I was playing the other day and I headshotted (for a fact I knew I did) an ARC and he had 1 health left and ended up killing me with his rocket. tbh I think a proj should be one shot HS.

Same as mando. They have a 50/50 chance of surviving a headshot from proj, depending on factors that I'm not aware of.
 
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Cuz TBH you are not surviving a headshot from the one of the strongest laser sniper rifles in the starwars universe lol
 
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Cuz TBH you are not surviving a headshot from the one of the strongest laser sniper rifles in the starwars universe lol

Proj should be a 1 hit kill on headshot to reward skill but don't bring lore into it, lol.
Lore =/= Balance.
 
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Proj should be a 1 hit kill on headshot to reward skill but don't bring lore into it, lol.
Lore =/= Balance.
Yeah I didn't really mean it but I was just guessing the power of a proj. Haha Idk anything about guns in the SW universe. I just think you couldn't possibly survive unless you had like 9 helmets on.
 

Sammy

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Proj should be a 1 hit kill on headshot to reward skill but don't bring lore into it, lol.
Lore =/= Balance.
I feel like the mando/arc tanking a proj headshot is not what is intended -- could be a hitbox glitch, considering the proj headshot does enough to kill anything. I've personally killed many with a proj-headshot (arc/mando included) and each time it was a headshot it killed. Could just be bad luck on your part :p
 

StarWarsGeek

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ARC/mandos cannot tank proj headshots. A headshot with proj does 450 damage. Any "headshots" you've survived were probably actually body shots (195 damage), which ARCs, mandos, and even BHs can just barely survive with less than 20hp/armor to spare when they start with full hp and armor.
 

Stassin

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Hit location-based damage modifier math dictates that chest shots do 1.3x damage and head/neck shots 3.0x damage. With the projectile rifle shot causing 150 base damage and there being a ±0.05 damage randomization, someone shot in the chest with 200 HP has a 24% chance of dying and someone with 180 HP has a 100% chance of dying. More generally someone with less than 150*3*0.95 HP has a 100% chance of dying to a projectile rifle headshot.

However, armor reduces the location-based modifiers so again with a projectile rifle chest shot, there being ±0.05 damage randomization, and the 1.3x multiplier being reduced to 1.15x, and projectile rifle being a special case because it deals half damage to HP and half damage to armor (which means that the armor can at most soak up half the damage), someone with 100/100 HP/armor still has a 24% chance of dying, but someone with 100/80 HP/armor has a 75% chance of dying because his 80 armor can absorb up to 90 damage. Headshots are still a sure kill except against SBD or droideka (no location-based modifiers on these).

There are rare cases where the hitboxes are messed up in a small location (of the head, i think) and actually cause a hit far away from the body of the victim, much closer to the attacker, i dunno more about this though, just observed it.
 
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Multiple times I've KNOWN FOR A FACT I headshotted unless it glitched because the ARC stopped and started a rocket so i had a clear headshot. I never can kill ARC's with a hs proj.
 
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Just had some thoughts for addressing some of the concerns with pulse nades:
What if they temporarily knocked out armor as well (similarly to what ions blobs do)? Maybe set armor to 0 and have it slowly (or have the rate/amount reduced be based on how close you were to the detonation) regen back up to what it was until you take damage? Think that would more justify the cost and make it require less follow-up while also making it more of a complementary grenade to others rather than kind of a derpy alternative.


I think this would be a good addition to gameplay as long as it didn't last too long, maybe somewhere between 2-6 seconds depending on distance from the blast, which would give another incentive to use the grenade launcher to land direct hits on other players.
 
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Not really a feedback,but am i the only one who,when chooses ARC,in the "build selection" screen,has only a "custom" and "Westars"(max stamina,dexterity,ammo,armor and pistols),and can't save others?
if someone ran into this sort-of bug,please help :(
 

Tempest

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How're we feeling about the ammo adjustments to m5 so far?
 
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How're we feeling about the ammo adjustments to m5 so far?

Love it, it's given me enough reserve ammunition that I can actually stay competitive while also supporting my team rather than just hiding for large portions of the round. ARC is playable on 8v8+ now and I'm pretty chuffed about it.

There are a few other minor issues tho, listed those in the OP but EMP nades is my main one, gimme em cheaper pls.
 

Fang

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I just played a few weeks worth of ARC and even though I aint no APPO ARC probably it is definitely playable now. I think you need to give it something though, whether its a better version of the pulse nade or general speed increases. I just find it so dependent on stamina personally
 
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I just played a few weeks worth of ARC and even though I aint no APPO ARC probably it is definitely playable now. I think you need to give it something though, whether its a better version of the pulse nade or general speed increases. I just find it so dependent on stamina personally

As much as I think speed increases would be good to help ARC be less focused on having to purchase stamina to be viable, it'd also make the class pretty powerful, possibly OP in good hands.

It's already a damn good class that can only really be countered if your enemy focuses on you with 2+ hard counters (sith w/ lightning & mando sniper for example) or you make a mistake, Dex 3 & stam 3 allows you enough movement & regen that you can basically dodge everything else aslong as your reflexes are good enough which, in my opinion, is a fantastic factor to the class. It's incredibly powerful with practice but unfortunately, only in 1 or 2 playstyles. You can play it as a PLX arc but you're generally useless :/

It's a difficult situation but I think for now, EMP cost reductions should be considered or EMP buffs to make it worth the cost.
 
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