Another sabering poll

[Defiant]

and developers playing clear favourites with big clans.

I am curious to know in what way we have favoured "big" clans. .

 

[Tempest]

Imo this current build is fine and i wouldn't change a thing except for making parries impossible with 0-10 bp.

It's fine, sure, but is it fun? When's the last time you saw actual varied playstyles? I can't personally remember the last time in the past year or two where the only variations weren't how much someone turned their mouse during swings or how much they let the other person attack first as the largest defining factors. There's only a couple styles that are truly viable outside of memes/trying to catch someone purely offguard out of the blue (which doesn't really qualify the style as viable IMO). I could go on but most of it has been said multiple times by multiple people.

Fixing parries doesn't really change how formulaic, boring, and counter-intuitive the gameplay is.

 

[eShuma]

Are we going to keep discussing builds or do something about it?

Or nothing changes and devs keep their work on ui?

 

[jacedagoat]

It's fine, sure, but is it fun? When's the last time you saw actual varied play styles? I can't personally remember the last time in the past year or two where the only variations weren't how much someone turned their mouse during swings or how much they let the other person attack first as the largest defining factors. There's only a couple styles that are truly viable outside of memes/trying to catch someone purely offguard out of the blue (which doesn't really qualify the style as viable IMO). I could go on but most of it has been said multiple times by multiple people.

Fixing parries doesn't really change how formulaic, boring, and counter-intuitive the gameplay is.

I'm not sure why there NEEDS to be a variation in play styles. I feel like once you get into that realm where you try to make different play styles viable it just makes the game even more needlessly complicated than it already is. Noobs as of now still can't even pick up the dueling system easily.

Plus, even in the patches before there weren't even really VARIED play styles, the objective has always been the same; pblock or avoid your opponent's swings and attack them until their bp drops to 0. Really the only play styles I can think of on top of my head may be defensive, offensive, style switching in the middle of duels, bait swinging/shadow swinging a lot.

Even now you can still do those things, besides style switching which is pretty obsolete, but really there was no other play styles besides those in the patches before.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm all for trying out Tempest's beta patch. I just don't think the current build is all that bad.

 

[kcaz759]

I'm not sure why there NEEDS to be a variation in play styles. I feel like once you get into that realm where you try to make different play styles viable it just makes the game even more needlessly complicated than it already is. Noobs as of now still can't even pick up the dueling system easily.

Plus, even in the patches before there weren't even really VARIED play styles, the objective has always been the same; pblock or avoid your opponent's swings and attack them until their bp drops to 0. Really the only play styles I can think of on top of my head may be defensive, offensive, style switching in the middle of duels, bait swinging/shadow swinging a lot.

Even now you can still do those things, besides style switching which is pretty obsolete, but really there was no other play styles besides those in the patches before. You can cherry pick all you want and say X DUELIST had a completely unique play style, but it all boils down to pblocking or avoiding your opponent's swings and attacking them until their bp drops to 0.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm all for trying out Tempest's beta patch. I just don't think the current build is all that bad.

So what you're saying is you want no variation or creativity in styles? You don't want something refreshing, to an already boring patch?

 

[eShuma]

So what you're saying is you want no variation or creativity in styles? You don't want something refreshing, to an already boring patch?

I think for now it's too much to ask

 

[jacedagoat]

So what you're saying is you want no variation or creativity in styles? You don't want something refreshing, to an already boring patch?

What I'm saying is trying to add variation will only make the game way too complicated. Besides the perceived creativity or variation in styles in patches before were mostly nostalgia. In the old patches, there really was no EXTREME difference in the play styles of other players, and like I said it all boiled down to "pblocking or avoiding your opponent's swings and attacking them until their bp drops to 0."

 

[KimmyMarin]

What I'm saying is trying to add variation will only make the game way too complicated. Besides the perceived creativity or variation in styles in patches before were mostly nostalgia. In the old patches, there really was no EXTREME difference in the play styles of other players, and like I said it all boiled down to "pblocking or avoiding your opponent's swings and attacking them until their bp drops to 0."

all about the damn pblocking shit lol and disarming gimmicks, lol hear this one before.
but i agree with you on your previous post: less is more.
thats the key.

 

[Tempest]

I'm not sure why there NEEDS to be a variation in play styles. I feel like once you get into that realm where you try to make different play styles viable it just makes the game even more needlessly complicated than it already is. Noobs as of now still can't even pick up the dueling system easily.

Plus, even in the patches before there weren't even really VARIED play styles, the objective has always been the same; pblock or avoid your opponent's swings and attack them until their bp drops to 0. Really the only play styles I can think of on top of my head may be defensive, offensive, style switching in the middle of duels, bait swinging/shadow swinging a lot.

Even now you can still do those things, besides style switching which is pretty obsolete, but really there was no other play styles besides those in the patches before.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm all for trying out Tempest's beta patch. I just don't think the current build is all that bad.

It's less about there being a metric ton of variety and more about just not punishing people outright for not playing a specific way. If you attack first, more often than not, you're going to be automatically punished by it based on the design of the system (unless you do very specific things to try and make up for it). If you don't follow the flowchart, you get punished. That's more of what I'm talking about. There's been too many times in recent builds where I'm trying to be aggressive and stuff just doesn't work as it intuitively would/should, so I literally just wait for the other person to swing first 80% or more throughout the rest of the duel and it becomes braindead. There's basically one ideal way to play and if you don't play that way, sucks to be you.

 

[PuNk]

Listen dipshit, they already back the big clans on their discord,

I'm kindly going to point out the "Cult dun' goofed" thread as a counter-arguement to this.

 

[JamJarBinks]

Hi. I'm here from the railroad. Someone said there was a derailment here?

 

[Dorito]

I don't care for the dueling as much as I want gunner v saber balanced, because at the moment it's way too easy for saberists. Their risk to reward ratio is way off when it comes to gunners. I'll leave dueling to whatever nerds want to obsess over it, just as long as those same nerds aren't unstoppable while playing Jedi, because unless you can go SBD, there's very little hope for defeating people that are good saberists. Those same players aren't nearly as untouchable when they play a gunner class. That isn't right.

Dueling this build is definitely cancer, though. Seems like you can land dozens of body hit combos, yet the only thing that happened was you lost BP and they didn't. Whatever the mechanic is, it doesn't seem to be logical, at least visually.

 

[Tempest]

Dueling this build is definitely cancer, though. Seems like you can land dozens of body hit combos, yet the only thing that happened was you lost BP and they didn't. Whatever the mechanic is, it doesn't seem to be logical, at least visually.

This is what I meant about being counter-intuitive. Trying to explain to new players that they shouldn't attack as much (even if they're swingblocking or whatever properly to conserve BP) just seems wrong. Can't play that way or you just lose for the most part...

Anyway though, @Unamused Kanye Open mode stuff is coming up as well so shouldn't have to wait too much longer for that either!

 

[pelmeņu lauks]

This is what I meant about being counter-intuitive. Trying to explain to new players that they shouldn't attack as much (even if they're swingblocking or whatever properly to conserve BP) just seems wrong. Can't play that way or you just lose for the most part...

Anyway though, @Unamused Kanye Open mode stuff is coming up as well so shouldn't have to wait too much longer for that either!

How to play your build?

 

[Tempest]

Everything except purely passive play is more than viable. You can be defensive but if you're always waiting for someone else to do things first/playing reactively/never taking initiative, it's very slippery slope. Getting rid of passive play being rewarded heavily or at all in general was one of the higher goals and I think I accomplished that pretty well.

 

[noel]

How did I manage to miss this thread

Absolutely no way im reading through 10 pages but from what I played of both Stassin and Tempest's beta several months ago, Tempest's was really enjoyable but only when nudge and neutral block were disabled. It felt to me like 1.4.9 in terms of the way the collisions etc felt. Unlike Stassin's beta build, it was clear, fun and you could play in a variety of ways.

 

[Karus]

This is what I meant about being counter-intuitive. Trying to explain to new players that they shouldn't attack as much (even if they're swingblocking or whatever properly to conserve BP) just seems wrong. Can't play that way or you just lose for the most part...

Anyway though, @Unamused Kanye Open mode stuff is coming up as well so shouldn't have to wait too much longer for that either!

Why does it feel wrong to tell noobs not to spam?
Personally I think that's a good thing, there's nothing more annoying than fucking spam in this game, it's just so braindead and boring
If you meant, slow down the gameplay, like, telling the guy to stop swinging 4 times every chance he gets, that's perfectly explainable, because if you are not trying to predict your enemies slap, and just mindlessly spamming, you're GOING to get slapped, and slap = BP damage/death (for the most part).
I think that's perfectly fine how it is, I don't know if I'm comfortable with those particular mechanics being changed tbh but I trust you know what you're doing

 

[Tempest]

I'm not referring to spamming or just doing sets of 4 swings (even if 4 swings is still straight up worse than 1 counter swing right now) over and over mindlessly. It's just being aggressive (e.g. trying to always be leading attacks) gets you punished straight up in this build unless you do very specific janky things. Even then, it's still so much easier to just sit back and wait for other people to attack you first for zero risk. Pretty backwards logic when it's about how the mechanics are punishing people rather than it being actually punishing mistakes, is all.

 

[Dorito]

This is what I meant about being counter-intuitive. Trying to explain to new players that they shouldn't attack as much (even if they're swingblocking or whatever properly to conserve BP) just seems wrong. Can't play that way or you just lose for the most part...

Anyway though, @Unamused Kanye Open mode stuff is coming up as well so shouldn't have to wait too much longer for that either!

Good to hear! Are you talking about FP drain tweaks?

I'm glad I'm not the only one that has noticed this ass-backwards dueling.

 

[Karus]

I'm not referring to spamming or just doing sets of 4 swings (even if 4 swings is still straight up worse than 1 counter swing right now) over and over mindlessly. It's just being aggressive (e.g. trying to always be leading attacks) gets you punished straight up in this build unless you do very specific janky things. Even then, it's still so much easier to just sit back and wait for other people to attack you first for zero risk. Pretty backwards logic when it's about how the mechanics are punishing people rather than it being actually punishing mistakes, is all.

If you mean halfswinging is more effecient than throwing out 4 swing combos, I do agree.
But it's definitely not a defender sided patch, no way. It's much more rewarding to be constantly throwing out swings, then retreating/creating distance (AKA, running away like a little bitch).
Considering how much damage you take on interrupts and counters being savagely inconsistent/broken, there isn't a whole lot other than slap to deter offensive play.
I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing though, if the opponent has good swingblock ability and his yaws are good, it SHOULD be hard to deal with.
Same goes for defensive players (if any even exist rn), if their PB is great and they know when to time slaps effeciently, again, SHOULD be hard to deal with.
I think the main issues are just parrying and the shitty turn based halfswing battles that occur sometimes.
It's quite hillarious to watch two people constantly halfswinging their combos, trying to interrupt one another.
That said, I get what you mean about single swings. But it's just a byproduct of the more offensive/shadowswinging type play that's emerged in the current build. You HAVE to fish for interrupts with single swings, there's literally nothing else you can do.
Want to try and counter by clicking M1 during a ridiculously tight time window? Fail and lose 50% of your BP from a single combo
I mean, there's running... but. Yeah. Fuck that.