Another sabering poll

[JamJarBinks]

Yeah, sometimes I absolutely know I've got the PB/MB made, and then it doesn't give it to me even though all the conditions were met - and then they finish their combo and I'm down 50 bp from a single fucking interaction.

And then I have to try and run to build space but chances are they just have pull and it's game over. #AndThenComesRageQuit

 

[noel]

Yeah, sometimes I absolutely know I've got the PB/MB made, and then it doesn't give it to me even though all the conditions were met - and then they finish their combo and I'm down 50 bp from a single fucking interaction.

And then I have to try and run to build space but chances are they just have pull and it's game over. #AndThenComesRageQuit

I dont think theres anything wrong with PB and MB timings/consistency in the current patch. Not trying to sound egotistical but I think you're probably not used to how precise you have to be with some of those timings/aim placements

PB feels if anything as consistent as it did in 1.5 onwards, which is to say a slight improvement from prior builds

As for interrupts and half swing spamming, what I'm reading pretty much seems to sum it up well. For me, the most annoying thing on the current patch is the inability to counter due to the stupid high interrupt damage. The same goes with parrying, sometimes you attempt to parry and it just gets interrupted by the attacker for seemingly no reason

I will repeat once more, give us Tempest's beta with no NB and no nudge!!

 

[shea conn]

Yeah, sometimes I absolutely know I've got the PB/MB made, and then it doesn't give it to me even though all the conditions were met - and then they finish their combo and I'm down 50 bp from a single fucking interaction.

And then I have to try and run to build space but chances are they just have pull and it's game over. #AndThenComesRageQuit

git gud

 

[Tempest]

Good to hear! Are you talking about FP drain tweaks?

I'm glad I'm not the only one that has noticed this ass-backwards dueling.

Yes.
@KarusBadders
Trying to explain all of the issues right now with dueling is pretty hard to do in text but the turn-swapping and the fact, as you said, that spazzing out your camera can get you far in the latest builds should be a big sign there's something wrong.

To reiterate, though, I meant it literally as just waiting for the other person to swing first will always be better as long as you land 1 hit and don't get yourself interrpted by not paying any attention (which can happen often in this build given how braindead a lot of it is). When waiting to attack second, you get X number of chances to try and interrupt (you can also yaw your swings as the one waiting to fish for interrupts, especially with left side swings), even if you don't PB at all, you will still do equal or higher damage just taking all of the hits and landing the 1 counter swing because you're regenerating and basically eliminating interrupt windows (again if you're not being dumb) while the other has to be open the entire time. It's very lop-sided right now.

It's much more rewarding to be constantly throwing out swings, then retreating/creating distance (AKA, running away like a little bitch).

It generally takes me about 2 minutes at most to teach people to understand how to deal with this tactic. It's pretty easy to catch someone who does this consistently if you have decent timing+spacing. The only thing that really saves it is how stupid the parry timing window is.

@noel
You actually don't have to be very precise at all in this build compared to mine/in the past. I get lots of accidental mblocks because of just trying to counter and it lines up somehow.

 

[Preston]

Reading this thread was big mistake

 

[JamJarBinks]

Reading this thread was big mistake

Your avatar makes me want to play Banjo and Kazooie more than this discussion makes me want to play Mb2

 

[Preston]

Your avatar makes me want to play Banjo and Kazooie more than this discussion makes me want to play Mb2

I highly recommend

 

[AODVIX]

For a very long time I've wished I could try Tempest's patch as the actual patch.

 

[Antyk]

What is this infamous "tempest patch"? I only saw some vague patch notes about it in this thread Tempest's Saber Build but that's about it, can someone explain to me why the community wants this patch to be the main one so badly?

 

[noel]

What is this infamous "tempest patch"? I only saw some vague patch notes about it in this thread Tempest's Saber Build but that's about it, can someone explain to me why the community wants this patch to be the main one so badly?

Its a beta that only the internal beta team have played afaik and that was a while back. The community are placing their trust in our lord and saviour Tempest to be able to deliver us from this current evil

 

[Hessu]

Its a beta that only the internal beta team have played afaik and that was a while back. The community are placing their trust in our lord and saviour Tempest to be able to deliver us from this current evil

People outside the beta team have played it too and liked it

 

[KimmyMarin]

People outside the beta team have played it too and liked it

i dont know what to say to you, heshi...........

 

[Hessu]

i dont know what to say to you, heshi...........

What?

 

[noel]

People outside the beta team have played it too and liked it

Who! fucking hackers

 

[Antyk]

I see, but i'm mostly curious about some form of more detailed patch notes, is there a link to a post or maybe someone knows the changes?

 

[Tempest]

I'd ballpark the number of people that were involved/actively testing my build as 35-40 between internal testers and people that I invited/had join in on occasion.

For the changelog..not 100% finalized but most of this has remained untouched for a long period of time aside from number tweaks. Also some of the changes aren't really listed in explicit detail (like combo chaining speeds, since all styles don't chain instantly anymore but that's kind of hard to explain properly in text). Additional note, changes including "changed from/can no longer/etc" values aren't from the current build so may not be accurate when thinking about the current state of the game.

Private duels implemented. Changelog for this will be with the next bigger release since they're to be included with that.

Spoiler: General changes/adjustments

- Change: Sidekicks with saber out no longer cause staggers for all styles
- Duel mode no longer ends the round when it's 1v1 and one person runs out of lives.
- BP regen is now triggered while crouching.
- BP regen raised from 4 to 5.
- Fixed autotaunt when acquiring ACM not triggering again unless you lost all ACC on the style you acquired ACM.
- Purple/Red now have the same movement speed penalty as Yellow/Green/White styles when attacking while moving backwards (0.45x changed to 0.60x).
- BP damage can now be seen with the cg_visualDamage cvar. (not sure if I'm limiting this to private duels or not yet)
- New: Can now change between styles with Staff/Duals while saber is off.

Spoiler: Parrying

- Change: Window for parrying is now more precise. Interrupts will happen more consistently at the beginning part of swings. Swings will also not be able to parry as long at the end of their animations.
- Change: Parries now deal 10% base damage (body hit damage without ACM factor) to the opponent.
- New: Parrying and taking more BP damage than the amount of BP you have will cause you to lose your saber. Duals' offhand will deactivate if it tries to parry when this triggers while you don't have your mainhand equipped.

Spoiler: Special Moves

- Fixed special attacks losing damage when hitting the same target multiple times.
- Fixed special attacks hitting multiple times when they shouldn't (can now be set to hit an explicit number of times in code).
- New: Downstabs can now be activated midair.
- New: Most special moves now cost BP to activate. Specials activated under these thresholds will deal 25% damage. FP drains altered accordingly.

Spoiler: Damage Modifiers

- Change: Damage modifiers relating to blocking/not blocking/running/walking have been simplified to the following:

If not blocking while running, the defender has a 1.15x incoming damage modifier.​

- Change: Incoming damage increase for getting hit while crouching reduced from 1.5x to 1.35x
- Change: Outgoing damage decrease for attacking while crouching removed.
- Change: Getting hit while doing any moves based on class special 2 have a 1.2x damage modifier.
- Change: Getting interrupted (hit in a start-up) has a 1.4x damage modifier. Also plays a pain noise on the defender.
- Change: Saber defense 1 has a 1.2x damage modifier.
- Change: Consecutive swings now also drop to 0.50x if you've parried your opponent (no longer just after scoring a body hit on the opponent). - - Change: Special moves no longer benefit from ACM.

Spoiler: ACC/ACM

- Change: Light styles no longer lose 2x ACC when body hit by non-light styles
- New: ACC modification changed to the following:

1 ACC = 1 ACM. Below 4 ACM, damage increases by 0.05x per tick (when the HUD updates). After reaching 4+ (auto-taunt will trigger), damage increases by 0.10x per tick.​

First swings build/drain 1 ACC.​

- If you've already landed a body hit in a combo, been parried, or are using Yellow's fast A halfswing, you build/drain partial ACC.
- Offensive Styles (Red): 0.66 ACC
- Balanced Styles (Yellow/Cyan/Purple/Duals): 0.50 ACC
- Defensive Styles (Blue/Staff): 0.25 ACC

Spoiler: Saber Blocking (pre-camera PB'ing defense mechanic)

- Blocking with the saber but not matching PB zones.
- Only builds ACC on the first hit that's eligible in a chain (if you would be reduced to partial ACC on a body hit, it does not build any in this instance). This is the same way that ACC build-up has worked in public builds for a long time when landing a hit that isn't PB'd*
- Does not remove any ACC from the defender
- Does 0.75x damage

Spoiler: Manual Block

- Successfully Mblocking vs Duals when it only has its offhand active turns it off.
- New: Failing (does not trigger a PB in some form or another; has red blocking crosshair indicator) causes the incoming hit to do 1.3x damage
- New: Plays a pain sound when failing.
- Change: Mblock cooldown timer reduced from 1500ms to 200ms regardless of failing or succeeding.
- New: Mblock Defense

- Requires doing the correct timing + correct movement vs incoming swing​

- Only builds partial ACC for the attacker​

- 0.75x damage multiplier​

- Won't disarm opponent (still following the rules for PB required to disarm)​

- Has a yellow blocking indicator for the defender*​

Spoiler: Perfect Block

- Can now be triggered in returns by feinting
- Blocking in a return no longer triggers a PB for all styles. Instead, now does the following:

- 0.75x damage multiplier​

- Builds partial ACC for the attacker​

- Has a yellow blocking indicator for the defender​

- Can only be done if a body hit has been scored on the opponent already.​

Spoiler: Saber Styles

Spoiler: Blue

Offense Rating: 5
Defense Rating: 54
Swing count of 4.
- Change: Blue no longer has instant halfswings from all directions
- Perk - Does damage equal to 5 + defender's current ACC in BP damage on PBs. Won't disarm opponents.
- Perk - On successful Mblocks (still matching zones), regains BP equal to 1 tick of natural regen.

Spoiler: Cyan

Offense Rating: 8
Defense Rating: 47
Swing count of 3.
- Perk - Damage done on the first parry in your own chain vs an opponent will always have a minimum base damage of 5 and have ACM factored in.
- Perk - Takes no damage on parries. Will not get disarmed if parrying with 0 BP (but won't be able to chain an attack after).
- Change: Now has the Stab special move for forward + crouch. Damage multiplier of 0.60x. Costs 10 BP and 15 FP to activate.

Spoiler: Yellow

Offense Rating: 9
Defense Rating: 49
Swing count of 4.
- Perk - Has its old fast A halfswing. This swing is treated like a consecutive as far as damage and ACC being affected.

Spoiler: Purple

Offense Rating: 12
Defense Rating: 49
Swing count of 3.
- Perk - Can Perfect block in returns (still requires holding block).
- Perk - Feints count as full PBs.
- Perk - Saber-out melee moves retain staggers in the following circumstances:

- Side kicks vs blocking opponents.​

- Catching someone in the startup phase of their swing with any moves.​

- Any moves that land successfully while having ACM.​

Spoiler: Red

Offense Rating: 14
Defense Rating: 47
Swing count of 3.
Change: Red hop FP (feint + rdfa combo) drain split from RDFA. Now drains 15 FP instead of 25. RDFA still retains the full FP cost.
Change: Perk - Now causes a stagger on the first body hit (excludes fast swings from cartwheels) landed in a combo if it hasn't landed any other hits yet (includes parries). Duration scales with ACM.
Perk - Does 50% damage through PB on its first swing in a combo. Will not disarm opponent. Will stagger the opponent if they have less than the BP required to take the hit.
New: Now has a crouch + forward attack. Big wind-up swing with large damage that causes stagger and knockback. Requires 15 FP to use and drains 15 BP when activated.

Spoiler: Duals

Offense Rating: 9
Defense Rating: 50
Swing count of 2.
Perk - Half swings reset swing count (allows for another full set of swings) if not at the max swing count when executed.
Perk - Landing a body hit allows for an additional swing in a combo
Perk - Special moves have bonus scaling from ACM

Spoiler: Staff

Offense Rating: 8
Defense Rating: 52
Swing count of 4.
Change: Slowdown on spins is removed while moving forward and lessened from 0.5x to 0.75x in other circumstances.
Change: Halfswings that change sides can now spin. A to D or D to A are exempt from this.
Perk - Non-special move spinning saber attacks have a 1.5x damage multiplier.
Perk - Can PB with Mblock without matching PB zones. Won't disarm if not matching PB zones. Mblocks done on a PB (still matching the zone) cause a short stagger vs swingblock.

 

[noel]

I will reiterate that i think your build was significantly better with the NB turned off, still willing to try it again with it but I just don't think its a very fun/consistent mechanic with the way movement works on this game

Same went for nudge, whole thing just felt less janky with that disabled

 

[RenegadeGaming]

Everything except purely passive play is more than viable. You can be defensive but if you're always waiting for someone else to do things first/playing reactively/never taking initiative, it's very slippery slope. Getting rid of passive play being rewarded heavily or at all in general was one of the higher goals and I think I accomplished that pretty well.

Define Passive please.

 

[Tempest]

Pretty self explanatory in what you quoted there.

 

[Jaikanatar]

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