Another sabering poll

[cannonfodder]

Precisely. Catering solely to newer players is the mistake EA made with both battlefronts. Too simple of a system - replayability will drop. Too complex - not enough people will play. It's somewhere in the middle right now, I think. People complain about dueling, but they will still come on to duel.

In MB2's case, I don't think "catering" to the new players would be a big mistake, every time a new star wars movie comes out, we usually get a bunch of new players. However, most of those new players will end up quitting because of the high skill curve and being unable to learn the game fast enough to stay interested. Having tutorials and the like that helps a new player learn the basics as soon as possible could keep us a larger percent of the new players.

With the amount of new jedi/sith players that I see every day, it's a safe bet to say that the majority of NEW players want to duel or just curb stomp like a jedi and sith would. But once they realize just how complex the dueling system is, it can be very discouraging to them (I've been dueling for 5 years and there are still a few duelists which I have no hope of beating in a fair fight even though I know almost exactly how every dueling mechanic works now). Saber systems are hard to balance, so if there are tutorials and the like that can get someone interested in something other than jedi/sith, then there's a good chance they'll stick around long enough to wait for a new system.

And about replayability, a ton of the players I know want to go to super early builds that didn't even have cyan or purple, so simplicity isn't so much a problem in mb2's case I think, cause even without most of the mechanics it has now, it'll still be leagues better than any other star wars game in terms of saber combat.

 

[KimmyMarin]

I guess I'm more of a realist. We're never going to grow our playerbase. To quote Kylo Ren, "It's just us now!"

So now that we're here and invested, lets make something for us. A lot of developers destroy their games by catering to a fan base they'll never have.

this is the mentality of a few, and the reason why the community never grows, only think of a few but not of many, no offense my lovely Jam jam jar binks of the binks incorporated jar jam company. lol

 

[KimmyMarin]

Precisely. Catering solely to newer players is the mistake EA made with both battlefronts. Too simple of a system - replayability will drop. Too complex - not enough people will play. It's somewhere in the middle right now, I think. People complain about dueling, but they will still come on to duel.

hence why i said solid, good, not nescesary EZ but not overly complex, and to compare bf 2 saber system to this is just not good because both are different builds and how they behave is beyond comparison.

 

[Karus]

hence why i said solid, good, not nescesary EZ but not overly complex, and to compare bf 2 saber system to this is just not good because both are different builds and how they behave is beyond comparison.

What in particular would you say is too complex about sabering atm?

 

[Karus]

In MB2's case, I don't think "catering" to the new players would be a big mistake, every time a new star wars movie comes out, we usually get a bunch of new players. However, most of those new players will end up quitting because of the high skill curve and being unable to learn the game fast enough to stay interested. Having tutorials and the like that helps a new player learn the basics as soon as possible could keep us a larger percent of the new players.

With the amount of new jedi/sith players that I see every day, it's a safe bet to say that the majority of NEW players want to duel or just curb stomp like a jedi and sith would. But once they realize just how complex the dueling system is, it can be very discouraging to them (I've been dueling for 5 years and there are still a few duelists which I have no hope of beating in a fair fight even though I know almost exactly how every dueling mechanic works now). Saber systems are hard to balance, so if there are tutorials and the like that can get someone interested in something other than jedi/sith, then there's a good chance they'll stick around long enough to wait for a new system.

And about replayability, a ton of the players I know want to go to super early builds that didn't even have cyan or purple, so simplicity isn't so much a problem in mb2's case I think, cause even without most of the mechanics it has now, it'll still be leagues better than any other star wars game in terms of saber combat.

100% agree on the tutorial thing. But to be completely fair, whilst I hate this community somewhat, everytime I see a new player in a duel server asking questions or asking for tips, at least ONE person always ends up sitting there with them for quite a while teaching said player how to PB, MB, Swingblock etc. and to me that's part of the beauty of having little to no introduction to sabering. It relies on players teaching eachother. I kinda dig that.

In regards to new players coming to MBII wanting to curbstomp as Jedi/Sith, that's simply never going to happen if you don't put the time in to master the class. And the majority of Open players on MBII have quite the disdain for Jedi/Sith as it is. Making it easier is NOT a good idea, whatsoever.
I'm not a dev, or anything like that, so I can't speak on what MBII is/supposed to be. But I can definitely say, if you want a game where you can switch off your brain and feel like an OP Jedi, EA's games are perfect for that.
If you feel discouraged by the complexity of Jedi, MBII probably isn't the game for you in the first place.

And yeah, MBII will most likely always be miles better than any other SW game pumped out by some shitty conglomerate publisher, but that doesn't mean devs shouldn't strive to make it as good as it can possibly be (and they are doing this).

In conclusion, I'm all for catering to new players, but if that's affecting MY experience (someone who has played for 4+ years now) I'm going to be pissed (not that my feelings matter in the long run anyway). MBII in itself is a very difficult game to just pickup and play as a new player, not because there are a lack of tutorials or anything like that, but because it is inherently skill based, and I hope that fact doesn't change.
Though, I do agree, tutorials will be a great addition to the mod, helping to ease the newer players in a little more.

 

[cannonfodder]

In regards to new players coming to MBII wanting to curbstomp as Jedi/Sith, that's simply never going to happen if you don't put the time in to master the class. And the majority of Open players on MBII have quite the disdain for Jedi/Sith as it is. Making it easier is NOT a good idea, whatsoever.
I'm not a dev, or anything like that, so I can't speak on what MBII is/supposed to be. But I can definitely say, if you want a game where you can switch off your brain and feel like an OP Jedi, EA's games are perfect for that.
If you feel discouraged by the complexity of Jedi, MBII probably isn't the game for you in the first place.

I wasn't trying to say that jedi/sith should be easy enough that new players could curbstomp with them, I was saying that some of the driving force to playing the class as a new player is that players want to FEEL like a jedi and sith. Jedi and sith in movies and comics are crazy strong, so for a new player, (especially one coming from the singleplayer base game where you are essentially a god) people like to feel the sense of power from playing the class.

Playing sith and Jedi effectively is difficult, and that's part of why I've enjoyed playing the class as long as I have, I like to have a challenge. I'm not saying it should be so easy that you could just turn off your brain and get results. But it might help to a bit more simple so that you could pick apart what you were doing wrong that is getting you killed. (I had to ask several people for help whenever I died cause I just could not figure out what I was doing wrong. It can be hard to tell. A new player wouldn't know about the ACM taunt, so they wouldn't know that they just lost the duel cause the opponent had 5 acm and 80 bp etc.) The new indicators in duels make it so much easier to know what's happening in the duel on both sides, but a new player might have difficulties keeping track of all that information.

And yeah having the peer to peer learning situations are always fun in the game. But some players don't know all the mechanics or haven't played for a few patches so they may share false information, or they may word the lesson in a way that's hard to understand. An issue that I personally had with it, is that I never learned how to pick out my wrongdoings, It would take forever for me to adapt to someone's playstyle, and sometimes I just relied entirely on a better player to tell me how to improve and what to do against ____ situation. If you learn from a super in-depth tutorial thats worded in a way that could be understood by everyone, it can help you to pick apart these stuff on your own, so you don't end up relying on other people. I'm not saying peer to peer learning is bad, but for some people (like me) it's not enough to make you "independent".

 

[Hessu]

🤔

 

[KimmyMarin]

View attachment 3901
🤔

you cant really take this voting that serious though, 13 votes ? im sure there are more players in the community, they just dont use the forums.

 

[Hessu]

you cant really take this voting that serious though, 13 votes ? im sure there are more players in the community, they just dont use the forums.

I know, im not silly. I just want to wake devs up. And the players

 

[KimmyMarin]

I know, im not silly. I just want to wake devs up. And the players

i mean... honestly, you are silly

 

[Hessu]

i mean... honestly, you are silly

u

 

[ZyDus]

get a room

 

[KimmyMarin]

get a room

i wont forget this treason captain mon baguette.

 

[SneakDissing]

this thread was my motivation for making this

 

[takuta pls]

While I haven't been around in awhile, I keep seeing friends of mine talk about this whole thing pretty often lately, so I figured I'd log back in to this silly site that I haven't been on in ages to chime in on this silly problem over a silly game that I don't even really play anymore. Granted, I haven't read most of this thread as I really just intend to type up all of my feelings on this matter.

The current sabering build is a problem. It is a large problem. It is not good. It is not entertaining, it is not intuitive in the slightest, and I might as well have more fun sabering on Battlefront 2. That is not a good sign. I could explain why, but that would be lengthy and I really don't care to as I don't play this game anymore (for now, and for obvious reasons) and I haven't had it installed in months.

Tempest's build was the last I played of this game, and it was fun. There were problems, but that is to be expected with a work in progress. There were things that could be tweaked to be simpler for the casual player and the like, but it was good, it was responsive, it made you FEEL good, like the things that you were doing correctly rewarded you in a way that showed to both players. You could tell what you were doing wrong, and you could tell what you were doing right. The current build does not have that. He spent a LOT of time working on it, and to throw most of it into the trash is beyond ignorance as the majority of people who actually saber find it to be a very sizable improvement over the current trash that whoever plays this game is forced to endure.

Sure, the more casual players might not enjoy it to the same degree that people who saber often do. But learning has always been part of the fun of this game for me, and it's why I like competitive games. If you want simple sabering mechanics, really, why wouldn't you just play any other Star Wars game? If you can't stand how difficult dueling is and don't want to spend time learning it, either play gunner or play a different game. There's no point in ruining the fun for dedicated players. You can have a complex game that still has an active playerbase full of memey lads that just like to have fun. Look at Mordhau or Chivalry for an example. There are plenty of players on those two games that aren't great but they have a grand time playing regardless, and goof around in Frontline on occasion just like how we do in Open. Yet they're still allowed to have a decent playerbase with a complex, skill-based combat system that is easy for a lot of people to enjoy in both Frontline and Duel. Why is that something that we seem to not be allowed to have?

None of this is being said with gunners in mind, as that is an entirely different subject, but if the intent is to make the playerbase only play open due to the gunplay being somewhat decent and dueling utter trash then again, why not just play Battlefront 2? This is said from a relatively unbiased standpoint, as I really, really don't like BF2 that much and I rarely play it.

you cant really take this voting that serious though, 13 votes ? im sure there are more players in the community, they just dont use the forums.

I'm sorry Kimmy but this is also ignorance. There are more players in the community, but this is a community poll. It should be taken seriously, and if you're against how the results are turning out maybe you should try getting more casual players or the like to look at the forums and vote as well. Most of the people who care about the game and the future of the mechanics will at least browse the forums. The ones who don't just meme in open, and don't really put too much thought into what happens with the saber system.

Now then, I'll go back into my little goblin hole until there's an actual decent update that doesn't just involve a tutorial or bug fixes that occasionally and ironically introduce more problems.

edit: tl;dr revert or tempest's build please, i just want to have fun coming back to a game that i've loved for years and spent so much time enjoying and learning. i do not trust the current dev team aside from tempest to redesign the saber system to a point where it's enjoyable. look at how it is now, to an extent gunning is fun, there are definite improvements that could be made just like with everything else but playing this game just to pew pew in a star wars universe... there's so many different options, this game is one of a kind when it comes to a lot of things. I just want to have fun again.

 

[Hessu]

While I haven't been around in awhile, I keep seeing friends of mine talk about this whole thing pretty often lately, so I figured I'd log back in to this silly site that I haven't been on in ages to chime in on this silly problem over a silly game that I don't even really play anymore. Granted, I haven't read most of this thread as I really just intend to type up all of my feelings on this matter.

The current sabering build is a problem. It is a large problem. It is not good. It is not entertaining, it is not intuitive in the slightest, and I might as well have more fun sabering on Battlefront 2. That is not a good sign. I could explain why, but that would be lengthy and I really don't care to as I don't play this game anymore (for now, and for obvious reasons) and I haven't had it installed in months.

Tempest's build was the last I played of this game, and it was fun. There were problems, but that is to be expected with a work in progress. There were things that could be tweaked to be simpler for the casual player and the like, but it was good, it was responsive, it made you FEEL good, like the things that you were doing correctly rewarded you in a way that showed to both players. You could tell what you were doing wrong, and you could tell what you were doing right. The current build does not have that. He spent a LOT of time working on it, and to throw most of it into the trash is beyond ignorance as the majority of people who actually saber find it to be a very sizable improvement over the current trash that whoever plays this game is forced to endure.

Sure, the more casual players might not enjoy it to the same degree that people who saber often do. But learning has always been part of the fun of this game for me, and it's why I like competitive games. If you want simple sabering mechanics, really, why wouldn't you just play any other Star Wars game? If you can't stand how difficult dueling is and don't want to spend time learning it, either play gunner or play a different game. There's no point in ruining the fun for dedicated players. You can have a complex game that still has an active playerbase full of memey lads that just like to have fun. Look at Mordhau or Chivalry for an example. There are plenty of players on those two games that aren't great but they have a grand time playing regardless, and goof around in Frontline on occasion just like how we do in Open. Yet they're still allowed to have a decent playerbase with a complex, skill-based combat system that is easy for a lot of people to enjoy in both Frontline and Duel. Why is that something that we seem to not be allowed to have?

None of this is being said with gunners in mind, as that is an entirely different subject, but if the intent is to make the playerbase only play open due to the gunplay being somewhat decent and dueling utter trash then again, why not just play Battlefront 2? This is said from a relatively unbiased standpoint, as I really, really don't like BF2 that much and I rarely play it.



I'm sorry Kimmy but this is also ignorance. There are more players in the community, but this is a community poll. It should be taken seriously, and if you're against how the results are turning out maybe you should try getting more casual players or the like to look at the forums and vote as well. Most of the people who care about the game and the future of the mechanics will at least browse the forums. The ones who don't just meme in open, and don't really put too much thought into what happens with the saber system.

Now then, I'll go back into my little goblin hole until there's an actual decent update that doesn't just involve a tutorial or bug fixes that occasionally and ironically introduce more problems.

edit: tl;dr revert or tempest's build please, i just want to have fun coming back to a game that i've loved for years and spent so much time enjoying and learning. i do not trust the current dev team aside from tempest to redesign the saber system to a point where it's enjoyable. look at how it is now, to an extent gunning is fun, there are definite improvements that could be made just like with everything else but playing this game just to pew pew in a star wars universe... there's so many different options, this game is one of a kind when it comes to a lot of things. I just want to have fun again.

Agreed 100%

 

[Mara]

i do not trust the current dev team aside from tempest to redesign the saber system to a point where it's enjoyable.

^
So much this XD

Dear Devs, please make Tempest the only Saber Dev, he has proven that he is competent and about 80% of the Dueling Community enjoy his work.

 

[Bare Jon]

View attachment 3901

democracy

 

[KimmyMarin]

While I haven't been around in awhile, I keep seeing friends of mine talk about this whole thing pretty often lately, so I figured I'd log back in to this silly site that I haven't been on in ages to chime in on this silly problem over a silly game that I don't even really play anymore. Granted, I haven't read most of this thread as I really just intend to type up all of my feelings on this matter.

The current sabering build is a problem. It is a large problem. It is not good. It is not entertaining, it is not intuitive in the slightest, and I might as well have more fun sabering on Battlefront 2. That is not a good sign. I could explain why, but that would be lengthy and I really don't care to as I don't play this game anymore (for now, and for obvious reasons) and I haven't had it installed in months.

Tempest's build was the last I played of this game, and it was fun. There were problems, but that is to be expected with a work in progress. There were things that could be tweaked to be simpler for the casual player and the like, but it was good, it was responsive, it made you FEEL good, like the things that you were doing correctly rewarded you in a way that showed to both players. You could tell what you were doing wrong, and you could tell what you were doing right. The current build does not have that. He spent a LOT of time working on it, and to throw most of it into the trash is beyond ignorance as the majority of people who actually saber find it to be a very sizable improvement over the current trash that whoever plays this game is forced to endure.

Sure, the more casual players might not enjoy it to the same degree that people who saber often do. But learning has always been part of the fun of this game for me, and it's why I like competitive games. If you want simple sabering mechanics, really, why wouldn't you just play any other Star Wars game? If you can't stand how difficult dueling is and don't want to spend time learning it, either play gunner or play a different game. There's no point in ruining the fun for dedicated players. You can have a complex game that still has an active playerbase full of memey lads that just like to have fun. Look at Mordhau or Chivalry for an example. There are plenty of players on those two games that aren't great but they have a grand time playing regardless, and goof around in Frontline on occasion just like how we do in Open. Yet they're still allowed to have a decent playerbase with a complex, skill-based combat system that is easy for a lot of people to enjoy in both Frontline and Duel. Why is that something that we seem to not be allowed to have?

None of this is being said with gunners in mind, as that is an entirely different subject, but if the intent is to make the playerbase only play open due to the gunplay being somewhat decent and dueling utter trash then again, why not just play Battlefront 2? This is said from a relatively unbiased standpoint, as I really, really don't like BF2 that much and I rarely play it.



I'm sorry Kimmy but this is also ignorance. There are more players in the community, but this is a community poll. It should be taken seriously, and if you're against how the results are turning out maybe you should try getting more casual players or the like to look at the forums and vote as well. Most of the people who care about the game and the future of the mechanics will at least browse the forums. The ones who don't just meme in open, and don't really put too much thought into what happens with the saber system.

Now then, I'll go back into my little goblin hole until there's an actual decent update that doesn't just involve a tutorial or bug fixes that occasionally and ironically introduce more problems.

edit: tl;dr revert or tempest's build please, i just want to have fun coming back to a game that i've loved for years and spent so much time enjoying and learning. i do not trust the current dev team aside from tempest to redesign the saber system to a point where it's enjoyable. look at how it is now, to an extent gunning is fun, there are definite improvements that could be made just like with everything else but playing this game just to pew pew in a star wars universe... there's so many different options, this game is one of a kind when it comes to a lot of things. I just want to have fun again.

even i have more fun on bf 2 ea system than this lol as you stated and is not a good sign either XD.
now on the point of the voting poll, sadly i dont agree and i tell you why: its a minority of votes which are mostly conformed by Veterans players and not really "casuals" as you stated or newcomers, isnt this a game of a community or just a few? yes they should come over and vote but why arent they? probably because they have no knowledge or care for the forum and whatever happens to it, most of the time people just rather focus on the game itself than rather come up here and read stuff or post, again not trying to justify them but lets be honest they just wanna play and enjoy the game which so far no one is ! NO ONE IS ENJOYING THIS MOD at this point, specially the sabering system related.
oh boy oh boy there are more problems in this mode than we are trying to cover here but since we are talking about sabering this is what it is.
i sure hope things get better, but even ive taken my time away from mb2 since july or something i cant even remember, its just not fun as it used to and lots of things needs fixing, change, improving, and im not demanding im just pointing it out.

 

[takuta pls]

now on the point of the voting poll, sadly i dont agree and i tell you why: its a minority of votes which are mostly conformed by Veterans players and not really "casuals" as you stated or newcomers, isnt this a game of a community or just a few? yes they should come over and vote but why arent they? probably because they have no knowledge or care for the forum and whatever happens to it, most of the time people just rather focus on the game itself than rather come up here and read stuff or post, again not trying to justify them but lets be honest they just wanna play and enjoy the game which so far no one is ! NO ONE IS ENJOYING THIS MOD

You have to visit the site to download the game. There is a huge database of knowledge on this forum. I'd guess that 95% of the people who play this game know that the forum exists, but regardless, they do not care about it because as you said, they would rather focus on the game.
Which leads me to your next statement, the fact that nobody is enjoying the mod.

So, why focus on a game that you aren't enjoying? Why not visit the forum to see what exactly is going on with this game that they are not enjoying, or rather, finding it hard to enjoy due to how absolutely brainless it is starting to become? You don't have to be a veteran to realize there are currently some deep problems with how this game is played currently.
The saber system is an especially huge problem, as there is literally no indication of how to be good or bad at this build. It's a mess that is not fun to play and I'd have more enjoyment dueling a chimpanzee with pool noodles.

With the community poll being in mind, wouldn't the next step be to make the game more enjoyable to the average player?
Regardless of how many people or the types of people voting on this poll, it is still a poll. It is meant to bring forth the idea of change to devs that are making increasingly questionable decisions over the years. I never met her personally, but I quite miss Viserys.

Regardless, again, if the numbers and the "bias" of the poll are the problem, then I don't see the point in not telling random friends you met on this game about it. That's why I came over, someone told me about this whole debacle that's going on. Also, it's incredibly counterproductive to be against veterans that have put so much time and love into learning this game and all of its caveats pushing for changes that could only be positive to the longevity of this game and mod that's older than my sister.


That being said, your post is slightly confusing to me anyway, because what I took from it was "Only a few people are voting. People who care a lot about this game and want to have fun with it, but it's bad in its current state. But that's a problem, because people who don't care about the game as much aren't voting because they don't care about the game because it's bad in its current state."


Now, once again, as I mentioned in my first post. This game has been a huge part of my life. I love it a lot. It was part of my childhood. It was a part of my teenage years. It pulled me out of my edgy teenage depression after a family member I was very close to passed, over the course of 4 years. Watching this game go the same way that they did, slowly withering away until you don't even recognize it anymore is not something I want to witness happen to this game that I love.

Nothing I've posted is out of hatred or dislike or anything else for the development team or anyone else. When I said casual players earlier, I did not mean it as a derogatory term. You can enjoy this game as a casual player just like how you can enjoy Mordhau and the like as a casual player. I just want to see this game flourish again like it has for years before the past couple. I'm just tired of watching the same thing happen over and over, Kim. Something's gotta change. Even Yamcha has his limits.

Also yes, I realize full well it is silly to compare a game to something of that nature. But it means a lot to me, and I'm sure it means a lot to many of the other veterans too. I cannot be the only one who grew up on this, fell in love with it and has no desire for it to whittle away into what it currently appears to be.