3p cam orientation abuse.

[avnas]

the is one area of feedback i don't need years of experience to give my two cents in, because other 3p available games have the same problems, and address them in some simple ways.

the problem i see with vision in the game is that primarily, people can look round a corner while standing firmly out of sight. for melee to be visually pleasing it has to be in 3rd person, so flat removing it isn't really an option - but things can be done to the camera to make it harder to abuse the system.

dayz had a plan, i don't know if they implemented it yet, to make the camera snap to the edge of a wall if your character couldn't see around it, the camera continues to move once the character can see in 1p.

resident evil and eternal crusade tried to address major camera abuse by moving the camera to be closer to the back of the character's head and to one side, and able to swap the orientation of camera from left to right.

since a lot of approaches can be identified by footsteps or doors opening, there is no need to see if one wishes to be sneaky. you just have to use your judgement better.

this would increase the value of force sight

 

[avnas]

what I mean, is that it's perfectly fine and there's not a single reason to change 3p. if you want to get instakilled behind every fucking corner, then just pick a different game. this is stupid

my point was that because something has been is not a reason for it to be

 

[Lessen]

if you want to get instakilled behind every fucking corner

ironically, he's complaining about how 3p makes it so you get instakilled behind every fucking corner, by Sith.

plus, in the case of getting instakilled by snipers, 3p doesn't help you a ton since they can stay behind a corner and just poke out to shoot you.

I mean, I still disagree with him but your counterargument isn't the strongest. anyway i'm going to bed zzzz

oh yeah, @avnas you haven't addressed my point that (with skilled players) your ambush problem never happens. Or maybe I mollified you and you just haven't admitted it. And as far as the "reason for it to be:" situational awareness is fun. Reason enough for me.

 

[eksha]

look, at the moment you can actually prevent that from happening if you use your 3p camera and a bit of smarts to position yourself correctly. The only difference in this situation between you and say, Sith is their Force Sense ability. Other than that, you're on completely even playing fields. Just learn the game, it's not even hard )

 

[andrew]

any benefit you gain from limiting 3p camera effectiveness is not even worth a fraction of what you lose

sense's traditional implementation didnt need any buffs, and its current implementation doesnt need a buff like this at the cost of overall game health

what does changing this really do? it helps stealth out in some fashion, and it forces you to peak to see around corners

id take full knowledge of whats around a corner and how that affects gunfights over either of these without question

personally, i dont value stealth at all and dont like it in mb2 so id go even further to say this would make the game incredibly shitty for me

 

[Lessen]

3p helps stealth more than it hurts it, I swear. Tho we're probably thinking of different scenarios when we each say "stealth." It increases awareness in a certain way that prevents a lot of cases of having no way of anticipating the way that you died, so that's nice, but it also allows people to be watching you without you having any means of knowing that they're there (and it allows you to do the same).

 

[Spock]

Captain, I'm detecting a dense cluster of assholes in this sector

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

@avnas feel free to go and play any of those other games if you feel that this game so sorely lacks those features. This game is a fun, competitive third person shooter with optional 1p camera options. Please, in trying to suggest mechanics to improve the game, don't just try and copy elements from other games because it worked there. To use your own phrase, just because something isn't, doesn't mean it should be.

Removing the 3P camera or preventing enemies from rendering around corners is a terrible idea for skill, sure, you'll nerf proj, but you'll also nerf skilled gunners who need that level of situational awareness to try and compete with uneven numbers, if you had to expose yourself to enemy weapon's fire for example, as the last player, you won't be able to ever effectively ambush an enemy which is a huge nerf to skilled play, especially people who clutch the last few kills in a 1vMany.

Also, by suggesting to remove 3P camera or, at the least limiting its visibility, you are directly nerfing my arc-fu play which requires a high level of awareness and constant vigilance so... even if it's not intentional, not happening or I shall murder everyone in retribution.

MB2 is its own thing, it's one of the rare games I can enjoy (as ARC) in which mobility can be so free, gameplay can be so fluid and combat so satisfying. Please don't shit all over this by demanding changes to a game you've played for less than a month.

 

[----Kas----]

@avnas feel free to go and play any of those other games if you feel that this game so sorely lacks those features. This game is a fun, competitive third person shooter with optional 1p camera options. Please, in trying to suggest mechanics to improve the game, don't just try and copy elements from other games because it worked there. To use your own phrase, just because something isn't, doesn't mean it should be.

Removing the 3P camera or preventing enemies from rendering around corners is a terrible idea for skill, sure, you'll nerf proj, but you'll also nerf skilled gunners who need that level of situational awareness to try and compete with uneven numbers, if you had to expose yourself to enemy weapon's fire for example, as the last player, you won't be able to ever effectively ambush an enemy which is a huge nerf to skilled play, especially people who clutch the last few kills in a 1vMany.

Also, by suggesting to remove 3P camera or, at the least limiting its visibility, you are directly nerfing my arc-fu play which requires a high level of awareness and constant vigilance so... even if it's not intentional, not happening or I shall murder everyone in retribution.

MB2 is its own thing, it's one of the rare games I can enjoy (as ARC) in which mobility can be so free, gameplay can be so fluid and combat so satisfying. Please don't shit all over this by demanding changes to a game you've played for less than a month.

Not to mention that such camera restriction would cripple the dueling in certain areas when you are forced to stick close to the wall etc.
I suggest closing the thread huh..

 

[avnas]

@avnas feel free to go and play any of those other games if you feel that this game so sorely lacks those features. This game is a fun, competitive third person shooter with optional 1p camera options. Please, in trying to suggest mechanics to improve the game, don't just try and copy elements from other games because it worked there. To use your own phrase, just because something isn't, doesn't mean it should be.

Removing the 3P camera or preventing enemies from rendering around corners is a terrible idea for skill, sure, you'll nerf proj, but you'll also nerf skilled gunners who need that level of situational awareness to try and compete with uneven numbers, if you had to expose yourself to enemy weapon's fire for example, as the last player, you won't be able to ever effectively ambush an enemy which is a huge nerf to skilled play, especially people who clutch the last few kills in a 1vMany.

Also, by suggesting to remove 3P camera or, at the least limiting its visibility, you are directly nerfing my arc-fu play which requires a high level of awareness and constant vigilance so... even if it's not intentional, not happening or I shall murder everyone in retribution.

MB2 is its own thing, it's one of the rare games I can enjoy (as ARC) in which mobility can be so free, gameplay can be so fluid and combat so satisfying. Please don't shit all over this by demanding changes to a game you've played for less than a month.

cool so you turn people away from your near-dead mod rather than just tell them their feedback isn't helpful, good to know.

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

cool so you turn people away from your near-dead mod rather than just tell them their feedback isn't helpful, good to know.

Near dead, huh?

Might not have 1000 - 2000 people on every day, but I wouldn't call about 100 - 200 people on average 'dead', I can always find a game and have been able to for the past 4 years, I don't need the servers spammed full of newbies and people who complain about this trivial bullshit, I want to actually enjoy my game.

Don't get me wrong, new players are good but not if they refuse to adapt to MB2's gameplay and instead demand it cater to them.
If you're offended that I told you that the time you have in the game is meaningless due to inexperience & misunderstandings, please visit your nearest containment hugbox like Tumblr, they're a bit more delicate there.

Perhaps one day you can understand that this mod takes time and effort to learn, saber system especially. I gave up on that shit because it's complicated as hell and I prefer blasting people with ARC but by no means do we need to start tweaking 3p or taking game design advice from companies like EA or simply ripping gameplay elements out of other games because we want this game to feel similar, MB2 is its own thing and there's a reason why it is the best star wars game out there in terms of competitive gameplay and it's not because they started taking tips from EA's battlefront 3.

 

[----Kas----]

This mod is not near dead lol. What's more, you were told this several times, so how can he be more delicate? Please play a little longer and then post the feedback :]

 

[hleV]

In DayZ, 3PP is fucking bullshit and everyone who plays it is a casual pleb. MB2 however is a different kind of game. It doesn't try to be realistic (or at least present the gameplay in a realistic/logical fashion). Sure, for gunners it's pretty much about abusing the vision 3PP gives you, but... okay I don't even know anymore, I'm playing the devil's advocate and I'm not sure why. Fuck 3PP, get rid of it xD Beating JK2 using 1PP with a lightsaber was fun as hell.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

I think the way our current third person behaves is nice and retro. Not many games feature it like this anymore. It lends itself to peculiar gameplay, but gameplay that I am quite fond of.

I love the way a player can actually use the camera in different ways to gain more information about their surroundings. It adds a nice extra layer of depth. I've often been able to evade getting attacked around the corner by someone just because I've been able to peer around the corner before going in.

Surprisingly few players grasp the fact that you can actually also evade their corner attacks with proper positioning.

While it can be argued that this behaviour is abuse, perhaps it would be fair to also argue that this is an intended mechanic of the game. As such it's the player's responsibility to account for this when in pursuit of being a better player.

On that note what is proposed is a fairly big change to the game's established core functionality. It's a pretty drastic gameplay change since it involves the absolute core (movement/vision). This in turn affects balance and map design in various ways. Adjusting everything to fit this core change would be a lot to tackle.

While modern games tend to consider it unfair, I'd argue that it's not unfair as long as it's intended behaviour. It is a design choice to give an advantage to the player who can peer around corners more effectively.

It is just another factor of skill to take into account for the game. As both players have equal opportunity to peer around the corner. Of course due to the nature of most maps where one has to go around the corner and the other just has to defend it, there's a little skewing on the defender's side. This defender's advantage can be dissolved in various other avenues:

• Abilities that give you information (Force Sense, sound effects, peeking around the corner, shadows, lights)
• Abilities that clear up these corners (Explosives, bouncing shots, lightsabers going through thin corners)
• Abilities that let you get past these corners more safely (mindtrick, jetpack, dexterity roll, dash, jump, dodge, shoulderbarge)
  
• Map design that forces the defender to focus on multiple directions at once

It is largely the player's responsibility to make use of the features the game provides to mitigate the disadvantages he is currently facing. This is part of what makes games fun. They're poker games that are in constant flux and you have to keep the odds in your favour with every trick in your book, but in the end they are still about chance to varying degrees even if you have some control over the chances.

 

[SeV]

All of this has made me realize that this discussion is completely irrelevant.

#BringBackProjMando!
#BringBackFlamethrowerflying bug!

kasjldasljkd!!!

 

[----Kas----]

All of this has made me realize that this discussion is completely irrelevant.

#BringBackProjMando!
#BringBackFlamethrowerflying bug!

kasjldasljkd!!!

Actually, I liked mando with projectile rifle :]

 

[Fang]

You don't know true 3rd person abuse until you start using CG CAMERA DAMP commands

 

[Lessen]

You don't know true 3rd person abuse until you start using CG CAMERA DAMP commands

there oughta be sliders in Controls for adjusting cg_thirdpersontargetdamp and cg_thirdpersoncameradamp. they're so important i swear

 

[Fang]

cant recall the exact stuff but
CG_THIRDPERSONCAMERDAMP 0.1 D 0.3 or something made the camera follow or stay put etc. How I used to raid hangar pre RC

 

[Lessen]

the all-caps isn't necessary, and, yeah, pretty sure if you set the camera damp to 0 then the camera will stay in one place, and if you set the target damp to 0 then it'll stay pointing in one direction. So if you bound both of those then you could abuse it like hell.

so both of those should probably get a lower bound of, like, 0.3, to prevent abuse.

 

[DaloLorn]

If you set both to 0, then it'll move exactly as the mouse does, always keeping both camera and crosshair centered on the mouse... or maybe that's setting both to 1?