1.4 Open Beta Dueling Feedback

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Happy and delusional.

Seems there's a secondary subset of swing animations, you can see it on display with how half swings have been altered. It's most noticeable with the yellow side swing but if you pay attention you can see it in the rest.
Feels clunky at times due to pb combo killer but I spent 3 mins spamming combos ; so

 

[Tempest]

Nudge swing windups are fairly easy to see once you stop worrying about them so much (or just don't stand on top of them while not attacking).

 

[Tempest]

Seems that the pblock not stopping combos is because of trying to mblock but it doesn't disarm, just stops the combo and whatnot. On that note, would doing the correct mblock (on a non-pblock) be possible for any ideas?

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Okay, from day 2 of duels I've updated my thoughts, most are still the same:

1) Nudge animations need to stop doing the weird hit-stop stagger, just remove that one animation, if it looks slightly odd, it'll still look better than randomly staggered and flailing around at close range.

2) Yellow is still insanely OP, holding any sort of ACM against it is near impossible.

3) Purple does not properly half swing, at all.

4) Red is absolutely broken with feints, as you can completely ignore the slow swing windup with feint -> halfswing, making it much stronger than most styles, and forcing a shadow match. Red also instantly takes away any ACM a fast style might have.

5) Do nerf the cooldown on slap to something like 8-10 seconds, slapping is too prevalent in duels imo, and it should have risk/reward to it.

6) Duels are absolutely ridiculously long. I fought with Raptor a few times, and each time it took the entire match length, and we still weren't even close to being low.

7) Make Cyan fun again, and a fencing style. Make it based on parries/footwork/precision, with a good thrust to replace the W swing that can be combo'd. Make it super hard, if you want, but make it fun. Make it Dooku'd. This current version is waaaaay too easy and boring for me.

8) Mblocking on staff is still an issue, either embrace the stagger on mblock to all styles, or remove it from staff as the one unique one. Also, make mblocking on staff require pblocks.

9) Sidewhacking seems to be very prevalent in this mode, might look into that.

10) I'd suggest giving Dual sabers a perk to benefit a defensive approach, and give it a combo limit of some sort. It is too spammy when used right. Make the Kata's interruptable by sabers, but give them a use for Open, like free-deflection during it from a wider angle.

 

[T r i s t a n]

So you're saying Yellow is unstoppable and Cyan is super easy? Hmm

 

[T r i s t a n]

I hate to be "that guy" but in my honest opinion. If 1.4 was released as it is now I would be very, very unhappy with the saber combat's direction, and many more would be too. I can see the player base dropping even further, and new players who find this mod will be turned away from the saber combat's difficulty, and strange internal workings that make the duels last waaaay too long if either of you have any idea what you are doing. I cannot quite put my finger on what has broken saber combat for me in 1.4, but it needs to be fixed. I really enjoy playing Movie Battles II. I would hate to leave.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

So dramatic.

Spend more than a day playing it kthx.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

So you're saying Yellow is unstoppable and Cyan is super easy? Hmm

Well, according to today, everything I used was unstoppable, and especially my cyan. I just mindlessly went through fights and managed to win, unlike 1.3. However, yellow is simply too strong. Cyan, I can't tell if it is OP, but... I definitely find it boring to use.

 

[Tempest]

Staff perk does require pblock...also need to stop basing all of your judgement on trying to build/keep ACM on cyan vs other things. Turtle dueling with single swings against people who aren't experienced doesn't make you unstoppable by any means either lol. The only reason that works is because of how hard it is to block it while you can just backpedal to pblock for bp drains and regen.

 

[Coul]

I think the only thing that needs changing is the bp damage, you can last 5 minutes using single swingblocks and nudges while retaining ACM/AP slaps need a longer cooldown or some kind of function changing its really irritating in every mode and i hate holding right click every swing just to stop someone from pressing a button to make me completely vulnerable and then hitting that button again when i get up because the cooldown is like 5 seconds anyway
PS: for all your super saberists learn to get used to not insta-killing your enemy
PSS: if you really wanna end duels just spam mblocks
PSSS: why all the hate on long duels? I mean in duel mode i thought longer duels would be more welcome seeing as the mode is literally just to fight other people so why does it matter whether the fights are 5 seconds or 2 minutes? and also I've hardly seen any duels if any at all in open mode so it's definitely not effecting the flow of the rounds
just because you were good with 1.3 doesn't mean you're gonna be god at 1.4 but it doesn't mean you won't either just give it time and get the hang of it you'll quickly figure things out and return to your godly 1.3 skill in a couple days STOP RAGEQUITTING THE DAMN BETA

 

[Preston]

I think the only thing that needs changing is the bp damage, you can last 5 minutes using single swingblocks and nudges while retaining ACM/AP slaps need a longer cooldown or some kind of function changing its really irritating in every mode and i hate holding right click every swing just to stop someone from pressing a button to make me completely vulnerable and then hitting that button again when i get up because the cooldown is like 5 seconds anyway
PS: for all your super saberists learn to get used to not insta-killing your enemy
PSS: if you really wanna end duels just spam mblocks
PSSS: why all the hate on long duels? I mean in duel mode i thought longer duels would be more welcome seeing as the mode is literally just to fight other people so why does it matter whether the fights are 5 seconds or 2 minutes? and also I've hardly seen any duels if any at all in open mode so it's definitely not effecting the flow of the rounds

either that or they could make pblock not stop a combo

 

[Coul]

either that or they could make pblock not stop a combo

that feature is one of my favorites and i think the main problem is people dont take advantage of the new counter, if you counter after a pblock its instant. this is why people need to read changelogs

New: Counters performed off of a full perfect block are instantaneous and deal 1.2 times BP drain regardless of swing blocking, walking or running.

 

[Alcatraz]

Okay, from day 2 of duels I've updated my thoughts, most are still the same:

1) Nudge animations need to stop doing the weird hit-stop stagger, just remove that one animation, if it looks slightly odd, it'll still look better than randomly staggered and flailing around at close range.

2) Yellow is still insanely OP, holding any sort of ACM against it is near impossible.

3) Purple does not properly half swing, at all.

4) Red is absolutely broken with feints, as you can completely ignore the slow swing windup with feint -> halfswing, making it much stronger than most styles, and forcing a shadow match. Red also instantly takes away any ACM a fast style might have.

5) Do nerf the cooldown on slap to something like 8-10 seconds, slapping is too prevalent in duels imo, and it should have risk/reward to it.

6) Duels are absolutely ridiculously long. I fought with Raptor a few times, and each time it took the entire match length, and we still weren't even close to being low.

7) Make Cyan fun again, and a fencing style. Make it based on parries/footwork/precision, with a good thrust to replace the W swing that can be combo'd. Make it super hard, if you want, but make it fun. Make it Dooku'd. This current version is waaaaay too easy and boring for me.

8) Mblocking on staff is still an issue, either embrace the stagger on mblock to all styles, or remove it from staff as the one unique one. Also, make mblocking on staff require pblocks.

9) Sidewhacking seems to be very prevalent in this mode, might look into that.

10) I'd suggest giving Dual sabers a perk to benefit a defensive approach, and give it a combo limit of some sort. It is too spammy when used right. Make the Kata's interruptable by sabers, but give them a use for Open, like free-deflection during it from a wider angle.

I 100% agree with this.
Red is very Broken, After Fainting your second swing is fast, and your third will stagger, giving you a combo opportunity.
In Duels It seems now slapping is the key point to winning, slap enough and you will Out ACM your opponent.
I got slapped and this guy performed a Kata with Mellee, Then sabered me (pretty cool tactic) but doing it every 5 seconds is too much.
#7 is a Must, i Love the Idea of Cyan, I love the Potential of Cyan, but its not fun at all, cyan has to be that "classy" style.
Duels Seem Way too Long, I find myself losing bp faster, PB is a lot harder. after going back to 1.3 i found myself PBing even better, maybe raising the PB zones a little would be good.

 

[Alcatraz]

I really Suggest Putting a (much) Longer Cooldown on Slap, you don't see a lot of Duels in movies or other games where Saber duels involve constant Slapping, mainly its pure saber skill. Here i find myself getting slapped more than sabered.

 

[virtuous]

K friendo, so keeping your cursor in one direction while in facehug mode and getting pblocks isn't luck, it is skill. I'm sure.

Honestly, I should take that as a compliment. I get 80 percent pblocks as an average now, aren't I skilled.

The answer is no, I'm not. Atleast not at pblocking, anyway. Getting a pblock is super easy, and you can get a lot of lucky ones.

I'm guessing you're Altroll.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

either that or they could make pblock not stop a combo

Or have it only work on a manual perfect block. Maybe even depending on direction. Or not

 

[SkeeSilentT]

.: General: I think the dueling pace of this build feels off. Some stances feel too tanky while others feel too soft. Fights in general are lasting much longer, and this unfortunately encourages both turtling and side-whack hunting.

.: Blue: The limit of swing chains down to 2 seems arbitrary and feels restrictive. IMO it should be increased to at least 3.

.: Cyan: I don't know if giving Cyan a defensive buff on top of a perfect block perk was entirely needed, but it's certainly not as cheesy as it used to be. The perk (combined with the increased BP buff) encourages turtle tactics.

.: Yellow: Powerful new perk. I get the logic: making it work to counter Purple's perk, but it also has a somewhat overpowered effect in the current build. That effect in a nutshell is: "I have ACM, but you don't." The longer the fight drags on, the bigger the advantage Yellow seems to have, and this encourages turtling. In this slower-paced build, that really gives the stance a tactical edge in duels, as BP conservation is everything.

.: Staff: Mblock stagger on swing block is still obscenely good in the right hands. Seems to be the definitive 'pro-style' in this build. 'Would like to see some more risk/reward when manually blocking. Suggestion: maybe if you don't at least semi-perfect block while mblocking, you take something like 10-20% more BP damage?

.: Duals: Feel perfect in my opinion. I can't think of any realistic revisions.

.: Red: The reintroduction of nudge, and the removal of the swing-chain restrictions of the stance are a nice touch, but don't really make up for what the stance has lost. The long wind-up time of the first swing combined with the low BP modifier makes the stance easy to punish. I've noticed the stance depends on staggering now more than ever, which makes comboing predictable and easy to counter with a slap. Nudge certainly yields more to this stance than others, however the BP damage reduction (while necessary) makes this advantage much less significant. Other changes have also made aerial maneuvers less reliable and effective. 'Could use some delicate improvements.

.: Purple: The BP damage reduction sort of makes the stance feel like Yellow-lite with less hits per combo. The dueling perk is this stance's saving grace, however that's now hard-countered by Yellow.

 

[SeV]

Just on a general note, there seems to be a lot of talk going around about 'Turtling' and how incredibly slow duels are, but yesterday I had some duels with people whom I outskilled alot. Nearly all of those duels ended very swiftly regardless of what style I was using, be it blue, red,yellow, cyan or purple. In my recent day1 dueling vid where my opponent is sek, you can see decent duel length variations. Some are 30 sec, some last several minutes. It depends on hitting PBs, avoiding PB's via nudge, getting good counters, getting good well-timed combo interrupt chains, hitting slaps etc etc. You need a more meticulous, technical approach to attacking. Gather ACM via nudged insta single hits and occasionally throw in 2-4 hit combos to throw off your opponent. Alot of ppl who are having trouble with 'turtling' players are just not attacking correctly. Get close, nudge and attack after nudge. Don't start your swing a far distance away from the opponent, otherwise he'll have an easy time PBing it. Any decent and many not so decent duelists will be able to PB something so obvious.

Another thing to try is to stop holding walk and use small bursts of strafe running to offset your PB zones right before you attack.

If you attack in this way, while gathering up ACM, then your patience will pay off eventually. Killing a player who is just holding block is quite easy. If he is turtling then he is playing sub-optimally due to not accumulating ACM properly. If you play properly vs turtling, the turtling player will lose the duel 95% of the time.

 

[MoonmanMoonman]

I dont know if it's just me because i can't be bothered to read the whole thread because i'm a lazy fuck, but i don't really like the nudge thing.
It's a good idea but for some dumb reason i rarely ever get a bodyhit now(the red circle), not because the enemy pblocked(different sound) but because of some other bullshit, most probably nudge even though i'm not in range and our sabers shouldn't collide like that. It looks like enemy countered but he didn't even attack, just defending. It makes the fights a total complete clusterfuck, atleast for me. Don't get me wrong, i absolutely love some of the changes like giving yellow a perk and other stuff, there's just something about the combat that makes me dislike it.
Also have in mind this is coming from a retard noob crybaby who's been playing for few months or so, just felt like giving my own opinion about it.

 

[Coul]

I dont know if it's just me because i can't be bothered to read the whole thread because i'm a lazy fuck, but i don't really like the nudge thing.
It's a good idea but for some dumb reason i rarely ever get a bodyhit now(the red circle), not because the enemy pblocked(different sound) but because of some other bullshit, most probably nudge even though i'm not in range and our sabers shouldn't collide like that

Nudge doesn't affect defense it only helps speed up the next swing you probably got parried since parries are much easier to pull off in the beta they may be semi-pblocking too i also noticed that the bodyhit effect is far more subtle, you dont get a red circle but like your crosshair flashes red sorta

For those of you still confused about the nudge mechanic

Nudge:

Nudging occurs when your lightsaber touches the opponent's body or blade. It enables attacks without the normal wind-up animation. Some nudge-swings are almost instant. It is an effective way of attacking, so you should be sure you know the nudge-timings of your style. Some styles like blue have an extremely short nudge window, while others like red, have alot of leeway and that allows for potential delayed nudge attacks. If you're hit while nudging, the nudge is cut short and you enter into a bodyhit+counter, which is essentially the same as a nudge except that it might throw off your timing and be a bit slower. So delayed nudge-attacks are generally not recommended. You also want to be careful about being predictable. Imagine if every time your opponent nudges you, he attacks right after the nudge. How to take advantage of that? Well, hit a slap during the nudge timing where you'd have normally used an attack. That way you can knock your opponent down if he is careless and overly aggressive/predictable.