What should change with Super Battle Droids?

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Out of all the Open classes, Super Battle Droids are the ones I see the least played. This honestly makes it hard to judge the balance of the class, because I don't know if SBDs are underpowered or not. All I know is that I've never seen a team get carried by an SBD player, so I doubt they are overpowered, but sometimes they do good in tight corridors. SBDs seem underplayed because they lack diversity in playstyles and don't have enough tools to stay interesting to the average player. In those ways the class reminds me a lot of the Heavy class in Team Fortress 2 which is that game's least popular class too that also shares a very similar play style of being a defensive tank gunner.

SBDs just can't do as much, they can't jump, they can't kick, they can't roll, they can't grab, they can't crouch walk. Playing as them feels like playing in a straitjacket. When looking for ideas to add to a class, looking at canon often helps... but not really in SBD's case. This is because abilities some SBDs in canon have like rockets and jetpacks have too much overlap with Mandolorians. Mandos would be a lot less unique if SBDs could use jetpack and rockets, so it wouldn't make sense from a gameplay perspective to add those abilities to SBDs even if it makes canon sense. Looking at Battlefront doesn't help either because they were really uncreative with SBDs as well, the B2s in that game have abilities like overload which temporarily increases fire rate and fortify which temporarily increases health. Neither of these would be fitting for MB2 either.

There's one last place to look, and that's FA. FA SBDs have two variants with unique abilities. First is the Grapple SBD, on paper sounds fun but it's really just a really basic wild melee swing. In it's current FA implementation Grapple SBD is somehow even a more braindead version than melee wookie, which isn't very fun. Plus you can't even grapple with the grapple arms. I had a fun moment recently where as a melee wookie I 1v2 sith by doing the reverse kata'd on a sith who thought he was sneakily approaching me from behind. These are the few rare moments where being a melee wookie feels intelligent, and grapple droid won't even have those rare moments.

The second FA variant has Laser Cannons. This is an alternate fire mode that needs to charge up, and on fire releases a projectile which is basically a blob, but it pulls from the SBD's regular ammo. This... is probably the best candidate for open implementation. It's unique in the sense that no imp open class has a blob. Even though it can be used more frequently, it's arguably weaker than a clone blob because the start up time gives the opponent time to react. Plus the SBD needs to switch back and forth between firing modes, meaning it takes slightly more technical skill to follow up on successful blobs. The big question here is how many points should it cost? I think 8 points would be a good starting point for testing in open, then adjust after testing.

One thing that always kinda bothered me about playing SBDs is that because they can't roll, if you catch on fire I don't think there's much you can do. Not to mention, only Imp classes like Commander and Mando can even set enemies on fire, so if you die to fire as an SBD it's always friendly-fire which just adds insult to injury. So instead of giving SBDs roll, basically change SBDs so if they catch on fire they have a VERY short after burn and some noticeable fire damage resistance. Don't make it completely immune to direct fire because then you'd have cheese where SBDs ask commanders to intentionally throw fire grenades on SBDs to protect them. However, give them enough fire resist to live through a terrible nade throw by a teammate.

edit: (Apparently you can put yourself out by going into low-power mode. I still think some passive fire resistance would be a fitting buff for SBDs, and upon second thought I don't think the firenade cheese strat could be abused too badly, especially after the fire nade nerf and considering the fact that rebs have a similar strat of sticking pulse nades to wookies)

I'm pretty sure the devs have toyed with the idea of making SBD's more mobile with running and jumping, and while that might fix some things, personally I think it sort of destroys the personality of the class. Even though SBDs are clunky they are SUPPOSED to be clunky, they are giant chunky droids. I don't like the idea of SBDs being able to jump for the same reason I don't like the idea of SBDs having rocket launchers. Keep the class identity intact, and I think laser cannons and fire resistance would do as such.

Yes, this was definately a long-winded post.
TLDRs out there I think SBDs in open should have Laser Cannons for roughly 8+ points and fire resistance by default. I think SBDs should not have jetpacks, rockets, grapple arms, or jumping.

I doubt the devs will take this post that seriously, and the MB2 community is definately the change-resistant type, but despite that an SBD update is still more likely than a TF2 Heavy update. :oops:
 
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Literally, if you gave SBD's noclip they could be as useful as dekas so I think this right here is the answer <--
 
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hasnt an SBD rework with new mechanics been in planning/development for years and years

edit - yeah heres the trello page, first started in 2018 Trello
 
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Sbds CAN put themselves out when on fire, low power mode extinguishes them. I do agree sbd is very underplayed usually with much use coming out to counter jedi spam and a rework is for sure needed. The biggest crutch imo is the power system which reduces sbd speed, fire rate, and most importantly resistance. Sbds cant really be upfront tanks like that should be since they will get shit on when even with mag plating when their power goes low and the buffs they spent points on do nothing and they their firerate drops to pistol 1 speeds. Sbds can be good but you need to play mid to back line which is kinda the problem caster wook has in where it can't front line like a class like it should be able.
 
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Sbds CAN put themselves out when on fire, low power mode extinguishes them. I do agree sbd is very underplayed usually with much use coming out to counter jedi spam and a rework is for sure needed. The biggest crutch imo is the power system which reduces sbd speed, fire rate, and most importantly resistance. Sbds cant really be upfront tanks like that should be since they will get shit on when even with mag plating when their power goes low and the buffs they spent points on do nothing and they their firerate drops to pistol 1 speeds. Sbds can be good but you need to play mid to back line which is kinda the problem caster wook has in where it can't front line like a class like it should be able.
Thanks this is good to know. It's not the most intuitive thing to extinguish yourself with low power mode, and I guess because SBDs are rare and SBDs on fire are even rarer I'm sure a lot of people were in a similar position to me with no knowing that trick. Still I think it would be nice to give SBDs some passive fire resistance too because really they just melt unrealistically fast and they should theorhetically be mostly flame retardant.

I agree with what you say about compared to wookies SBDs can't really play aggro tank which really limits play style. Although it's a bit hard to judge because any change I see that would make SBDs more viable on Offensive play like having reduced fire rate penalty from low battery would also be a buff to defensive SBDs. And I don't think SBDs need a huge buff to their defensive playstyle. Trying to think of a way to buff aggressive SBD without buffing defensive SBD is tough... One idea I just had is what if there was a new perk that when enabled will restore some of the SBD's battery on kill, this would be a snowball mechanic similar but unique to Wookie Rage, and would be a buff to aggressive SBDs without being such a huge buff to defensive ones. It could be called "Adaptive Battery" or something.

hasnt an SBD rework with new mechanics been in planning/development for years and years

edit - yeah heres the trello page, first started in 2018 Trello

Yeah, I do remember an SBD rework being talked about, thanks for sharing the page. Looks like the image attachment was actually really recent, meaning it hasn't been abandoned. Like for an old mod that's a REALLY recent post, just a handful of months ago. That gives me some hope, hopefully the SBD rework the devs decide on is actually cool.
 

MaceMadunusus

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Yeah, I do remember an SBD rework being talked about, thanks for sharing the page. Looks like the image attachment was actually really recent, meaning it hasn't been abandoned. Like for an old mod that's a REALLY recent post, just a handful of months ago. That gives me some hope, hopefully the SBD rework the devs decide on is actually cool.

It is just about to the point where final balance testing can begin. Which hopefully if there is enough dev time means itll be out in the next 6 months but who knows.
 
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SBD should get their extended slap back so, or be made a little smaller so crouching doesn't make the SBD useless. Also, there are too many ways to disable an SBD compared to a Wookiee. Also, Cortosis should be reduced to 8 from 10, If I recall correctly, to get full cortosis costs 2 then 6 in the older version. Also, the droid battery back in the day seemed great on paper, but compared to fighting clones and having to go out in the open, it's a complete crutch to have, the SBD would be better off with having 300HP plus shields. Also, I thought the reason why the SBD initially had a strong slap was to counter the wookiee knockdowns?
 
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Don't make it completely immune to direct fire because then you'd have cheese where SBDs ask commanders to intentionally throw fire grenades on SBDs to protect them. However, give them enough fire resist to live through a terrible nade throw by a teammate.
You already get something similar to this with ARCs attaching EMP grenades to melee wookiees. Imperials having a similar option could be fun.
 
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You already get something similar to this with ARCs attaching EMP grenades to melee wookiees. Imperials having a similar option could be fun.
That's a good point, I suppose almost complete fire immunity on SBDs wouldn't be that OP after all, even though fire nade on a friendly SBD it's a sorta cheese strat, it at least requires good teamwork and situational awareness so it's not gonna be abused too often.

SBD should get their extended slap back so, or be made a little smaller so crouching doesn't make the SBD useless. Also, there are too many ways to disable an SBD compared to a Wookiee. Also, Cortosis should be reduced to 8 from 10, If I recall correctly, to get full cortosis costs 2 then 6 in the older version. Also, the droid battery back in the day seemed great on paper, but compared to fighting clones and having to go out in the open, it's a complete crutch to have, the SBD would be better off with having 300HP plus shields. Also, I thought the reason why the SBD initially had a strong slap was to counter the wookiee knockdowns?
I have noticed while playing wookie that SBD's are surprizingly easy to knock down and destroy. I don't feel intimidated by SBD slap when playing Wookie, perhaps that should be looked into.
 
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Dead man posting, take it with a grain of salt

SBD is fine in terms of effectiveness, but it is heavily weighed down by how limiting it is in terms of builds, and that's the SBD's biggest problem - it is simply too boring to play. That's why you don't see anyone playing that shit.

In my opinion, to be an effective SBD you MUST take firepower 3. FP3 makes you a formidabble opponent to any class simply due to the DPS you can dish out, and due to your relative tankiness. In taking FP3, however, you limit yourself in your defensive options. You either sacrifice battery 3 or HP/armor, which in turn forces you to play (mostly) defensively. Add SBD's lethargic movespeed on top, and you have a class that can probably give you nacrolepsy due to how slow and boring your gameplay loop ends up being - hugging corners and boxes, and very rarely pushing out to finish off melee enemies or lone gunners.

You can, of course, take FP2 and invest into HP/armor/battery to allow for more active gameplay, but... it actually doesn't work. You see, with full battery charge, FP2 is just barely effective enough to kill enemies in a reasonable amount of time, and that's assuming you have good aim and hit your shots. But if you play agressively, you take hits. Taking hits drains you battery. And you know what happens when you go below ~70-80% of your battery? Your blaster becomes a peashooter, which in turn makes you COMPLETELY useless.

SBD has NO utility outside of its blaster. You can't toss nades, you can't fire blobs, you can't launch rockets, you can't do SHIT. Sure you can swing your arm, but nobody is stupid enough to get close to you, and you can't get close to anyone either - you're too slow.

And that, in my opinion, is what SBD needs to escape its sleep-inducing gameplay loop - either additional utility in the form of rockets/nades/blobs/ANYTHING, or a battery that doesn't die when you're playing agressively.

Thx bye
 

Duckshark

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Okay, there's a whole lotta things here to unpack as someone who plays SBD.

Out of all the Open classes, Super Battle Droids are the ones I see the least played.

Droidekas are played even less and have an even smaller playerbase.

SBD is fine in terms of effectiveness, but it is heavily weighed down by how limiting it is in terms of builds, and that's the SBD's biggest problem - it is simply too boring to play. That's why you don't see anyone playing that shit.

There's a rework intending to give it some more utility, and more importantly more weapon branching so its interaction isn't limited to shooting its gun and slapping.

In my opinion, to be an effective SBD you MUST take firepower 3. FP3 makes you a formidabble opponent to any class simply due to the DPS you can dish out, and due to your relative tankiness. In taking FP3, however, you limit yourself in your defensive options. You either sacrifice battery 3 or HP/armor, which in turn forces you to play (mostly) defensively.

This was true pre-1.8. However, with current point refactoring, the current meta build is actually Hull 3, Firepower 2, Recharge 3, and Magnetic Plating. With >80% battery, a bowcaster which has 30 base damage does 9 damage per shot. This absolutely ridiculous tankiness against blasters makes you absurdly effective against any rebel gunner that isn't a strength Wookiee, because outside of tons of explosives, a melee wookiee, or a lightsaber, you are the most invulnerable SOB on the map.

For example, if you mutually shoot each other in the chest, it takes about 12 shots to kill a 400 HP wookiee with SBD's arm blaster, but the wookiee must shoot you 21 times consecutively (using caster 2) to kill, more if your battery has time to recharge. FP2 has about double the fire rate of caster 2, and SBD has no headshot hitboxes whereas Wookiees do. Thus, SBD has an advantage in almost any straight gunfight now excepting pulse nades and ion blobs which temporarily reduce your blaster resistance.

This has now made SBD the ultimate tank class and an absolute chore to fight even with a bunch of ion clones and pulse nade arcs, unless you have a rage wookiee or aggressive Jedi. Both of those things are countered with fire nades, which makes the combination of a mag-plating SBD and a T21 fire nade commander extremely powerful.

SBD has NO utility outside of its blaster. You can't toss nades, you can't fire blobs, you can't launch rockets, you can't do SHIT. Sure you can swing your arm, but nobody is stupid enough to get close to you, and you can't get close to anyone either - you're too slow.

Very true. No class has less utility than SBD except Droideka. Both classes are largely limited to just running around and using your stupidly high rate of fire to suppress corners and shoot heads. Droideka, however, can cross a map in about 20 seconds, whereas SBD crosses a map in closer to 2 minutes. Thus, SBD right now is just corner camping and suppression simulator. Quite boring on defense, and almost completely unusable on offense outside of holding angles for teammates.

Potential fixes are already known - wrist rockets, alternative weapon choices, the ability to invest in a small jump for mobility, more utility in general for a more active playstyle - but it's up to development now for the folks upstairs. We'll see what the rework is like when it comes out, and I promise to test it extensively :).
 
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SBD has NO utility outside of its blaster. You can't toss nades, you can't fire blobs, you can't launch rockets, you can't do SHIT. Sure you can swing your arm, but nobody is stupid enough to get close to you, and you can't get close to anyone either - you're too slow.

And that, in my opinion, is what SBD needs to escape its sleep-inducing gameplay loop - either additional utility in the form of rockets/nades/blobs/ANYTHING, or a battery that doesn't die when you're playing agressively.

Thx bye

Very true. No class has less utility than SBD except Droideka. Both classes are largely limited to just running around and using your stupidly high rate of fire to suppress corners and shoot heads. Droideka, however, can cross a map in about 20 seconds, whereas SBD crosses a map in closer to 2 minutes. Thus, SBD right now is just corner camping and suppression simulator. Quite boring on defense, and almost completely unusable on offense outside of holding angles for teammates.

Potential fixes are already known - wrist rockets, alternative weapon choices, the ability to invest in a small jump for mobility, more utility in general for a more active playstyle - but it's up to development now for the folks upstairs. We'll see what the rework is like when it comes out, and I promise to test it extensively :).
Seems most people are in agreement with my original post that SBD isn't lacking in direct power but they need some utility. I'm more confident in my suggestion to bring in the Laser Cannon from FA now that I feel that my original assessment of SBDs wasn't too biased. I'm interested to see what the devs will do because an SBD rework doesn't seem too far away. I'm a bit scared the devs might overtune SBD, but I guess we'll wait and see.
 
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Just give SBD mando flying and we're good

SBD in charging mode should have energy shield

SBD arm need bigger hitbox. I'm definitely hitting people but they don't fall

Jedi shouldn't be able to push SBD when SBD crouch
 
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Even if my suggestions are shit to some, your suggestion is hanus and utterly despicable. What the fuck is your problem?
What's a hanus? Anyway, if you decide to post something, at least tell us what is the point of adding it - what extra gameplay options it brings, if it fits the class and its design, if it tackles some problem the class is facing, etc. Adding shit for the sake of adding shit is a waste of development time and a potential balance problem.
 
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