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Technical Issue What is the exact timing threshold for the yellow dfa?

Discussion in 'Support' started by KaniganTheMando, Jun 28, 2018.

  1. KaniganTheMando

    KaniganTheMando Internal Beta Team

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    Hey, odd question, but whats the exact timing threshold for the yellow dfa (between clicking jump and left mouse button), or is it literally at the same time?

    I recently bought a new mouse (logitech g203 to replace my old $10 walmart one), and I noticed that clicking jump and lmb (+ forward) at the same time doesn't work anymore, and instead I have to click my left mouse button immediately after clicking jump for the dfa to trigger. I can't tell if my mouse is faulty or my old mouse had input lag or something else.

    Any help would be appreciated. I only have 10 days to refund this mouse.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
  2. Defiant

    Defiant Project Leader Movie Battles II Team Code Leader

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    @Tempest or @Stassin might have the exact number, but, I always have had to hit attack a moment after jump so I don't think your mouse is faulty. If you really want to check you can bind attack to a keyboard key and do the whole thing from your keyboard.

    I think the timing is slightly different in MBII to baseJA.
     
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  3. KaniganTheMando

    KaniganTheMando Internal Beta Team

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    I actually did that and also tried solely with my mouse keys (it has 2 extra buttons). Doing the whole thing from my keyboard works as intended where dfa triggers after hitting all the keys at the same time, but with my mouse keys I still have to delay it slightly.

    W (keyboard) + JUMP (keyboard-> spacebar) + Primary Fire (Keyboard->#0) = Works when clicked simultaneously
    W (MOUSE4) + JUMP (MOUSE5) + Primary Fire (MOUSE1/Left Clicker) = Still have to delay the mouse clicker
    W + JUMP + Primary Fire (MOUSE4 multikey) = Sometimes dfa triggers, sometimes it doesn't
    W (keyboard) + JUMP (MOUSE4) + Primary Fire (MOUSE5) = Still have to delay the mouse clicker
    W (keyboard) + JUMP (keyboard -> spacebar) + Primary Fire (MOUSE4) = Still have to delay the mouse clicker
    W (keyboard) + JUMP (keyboard -> spacebar) + Primary Fire (MOUSE2) = Still have to delay the mouse clicker
    W + JUMP (MOUSE4 multikey) + Primary Fire (Keyboard->#0) = Works when clicked simultaneously, and also when slightly delayed
    (copied and pasted from the troubleshooting doc I wrote for myself)

    also tried with an old (circa 2000) logitech laser mouse i found lying around, and I had to delay the key-press for it as well.

    then tried with a bunch of cheap $10 keyboards (cheap wiring, can't handle too many inputs at once) I had lying around just in case, and no difference as far as i can tell, so keyboard doesn't matter.

    It's possibly that the keyboards I own all have input lag, and my old mouse did as well, and that balanced out, may be.

    (btw i use mb2 client)
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
  4. Lessen

    Lessen Childpuncher Movie Battles II Team

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    Note: You can somewhat adjust the height/range of the DFA by inputting the Primary Fire slightly later.

    General statement: In my experience (as someone who can DFA very consistently), the input is "be in the first x milliseconds of a jump, while holding W, and then press attack"

    That "first x milliseconds" window is actually rather generous. No idea how many milliseconds it is, but it's pretty roomy.

    Incidentally the 0 FP staff backflip highjump is "be in the first x milliseconds of a jump, while holding S, and then press attack." Which makes it harder to input than a DFA, because if you just hold S and jump, you'll start a special backflip jump, which can't transition into a special. So you have to jump and THEN immediately hold S and press attack. On the bright side, once you learn that movement you'll find it possible to staff backflip forwards or sideways pretty easily.

    In general there aren't really any inputs in this game that rely on pressing multiple things at the exact same time (as in frame perfect "press down three keys on the same frame"). It's more like "be holding this key, then press that key, within a certain window." Be holding W, then press attack, within the "start of jump" window.

    Although as far as I can tell the weird "dive" jumps are done by running in a direction and then frame-perfectly STOPPING your run while pressing jump.

    Deep tangent: Here's a cool/weird thing you can do with staff backflip and a low ceiling. It's kinda like kicking off the ceiling and slamming down headfirst with your staff, although I don't know if the damage is any good etc.



    You can do a similar thing if you try to staff backflip up to a platform that's a little too high, you'll kinda bounce back off of it and end up back where you started.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
  5. Lessen

    Lessen Childpuncher Movie Battles II Team

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    bonus vid, here's what I meant by weird dive jumps



    (I'm easing back into video making, and also, learning that my CPU's too weak for recording really good quality footage D:<)
     
  6. Noob

    Noob Donator

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    i thought "dive" jumps were common knowledge. i use them generally when i want more precise jumps, the no flipping makes it easier to judge. its probably placebo but i feel like i drain less fp too
     
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  7. Lessen

    Lessen Childpuncher Movie Battles II Team

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    They might be common knowledge for people who've been around or people who are inclined to experiment. I can't tell how many people there are who are actually that inclined to experiment. For instance, I'm not sure how many gunners there are in the game who ever realized on their own how differently all the guns are positioned (how far to the right pistol and E-11 are, for example). Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one paying attention. :^(

    Bonus observation: If you attack in midair during a "dive" jump, it'll seemingly be canceled when you hit the ground, although... this isn't entirely the case. If you do a red swing for example, and you're still in the windup when you land, you'll see the windup animation cancel, but then suddenly the "release" animation will start, out of nowhere.

    Anyway there's probably something abusable somewhere in that weird quirk.

    edit: Also, my impression of the dive jumps from some very loose testing was that they either use the same amount or perhaps more FP (start draining FP faster) than regular jumps. Anyone who really cares should test it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
  8. Lessen

    Lessen Childpuncher Movie Battles II Team

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    Lemme just reiterate the part where I answered the main question of this thread. Lest it be lost in my exploratory tangents.
    The timing is definitely, absolutely, 100% NOT simply "at the same time."
     

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