The Wrist Laser is Rather Silly

[TronTheNoob]

PLEASE BE AWARE: This is not intended to be a "buff mando plz" thread, I think they're fine where they are. This is more a thread to try and give a useless point slot in mando builds some love.

Mandos have been my favorite class to use since I started playing some 500hrs of game time ago. The rocket is fun, jetpack is fun, the flamethrower is fun (to use at least), and the weapon selection is pretty nice. But the wrist laser doth sucketh.

From what I gather reading older threads, it used to be much better (too much), and was struck a fatal blow by the dreaded nerf bat. Now it's just a p3 with a weird cooldown mechanic. So, as I haven't heard anything about it on the forums since january, I thought I'd post my opinions and suggestions on the internet so I can be called an idiot-- I mean start a conversation about it.

1. Make it non reflectable
Pretty self-explanatory. It's the least exciting but probably easiest to implement idea that'd at least make it somewhat useful against the dreaded turtle-jedi. However, even then it would be less useful than flamethrower.

2. Knockdown on leg hit
This one would be interesting at least, would probably have to be balanced with a fairly significant increase to recharge time and/or decrease in shot capacity. But essentially, if you hit some poor bastard in the knee (except maybe immobile guarding jedi) you'd get a knockdown effect. *Insert dead Skyrim meme here* This would get an interesting dynamic going, where you'd get much less damage on hit compared to body or head shot, but y'know... knockdown.

3. Charge-Only P3
For this, we must embrace the gimmick. Essentially, you'd give it a minimum charge time of 0.5s (er something in that neighborhood) to be fireable, and a max charge at 2s (er something in that neighborhood) and do away with any timed discharge. So you could walk around corners with a big ass pew on your wrist. (And maybe small knockback?)

4. Unlimited Shot Capacity, But Drains Fuel
Again, fairly self explanatory, maybe a bit too gimmicky, but would at least offer a more interesting and versatile way of balancing than "3 shots or you lose it."

Really, these are just stray shower thoughts. I have no experience in game development but figured I'd throw my lame brain juices at people and see what they think.

 

[KaniganTheMando]

Wrist Laser faces the same problem as the Dual Pistols. When you got one of the most powerful guns in the game, there is no rational justification to use Wrist Laser or Pistols other than beeing stylish, unless they do something that the EE3 can't do.

Correct me if im wrong, but

Westars have higher fp drain, and can flinch consistently given their pistol accuracy, unlike the ee3 which is (only) accurate in bursts and in shift-walk mode. Meaning with the westars you can more reliably flinch while running (and flying), especially against longer range swings (which ee3 bursts might have trouble with). Skilled jedi could wait and swing in between your ee3 bursts (since just spray is very risky unless the jedi's so close you're touching wieners) for higher chance of getting a swing in. Westars can counter this issue by supplying you with 100% accuracy. On the other hand, westars have a shorter clip, so jedi could wait for you to run out of ammo and swing at you during the reload. Charged westar 3 shots are also nice against enemy gunners coming out of corners, and reload faster than the ee3.

IMO westars seem incredibly good as they are (the low clip size is a tad annoying tho). I think there even might be a secret meta build with westars and wrist-laser that can function like an ee3 build where you depend on wrist laser for long range snipes (given its pistol accuracy) and as an easier (less ammo/clip cost, and easier to perform than a close-range ee3 snipe) close-up force-push/pull punish (picture a scenario when you're standing near a platform's edge like deathstar bridge or dotf gen, as bait,, and a jedi pushes giving you an instant of time to wristlaser their face (could even 1 hit kill potentially).

Charged westars can do similar damage in that scenario, but the charging is visually obvious and skilled jedi could easily counter (like prepare a deflect right into your mando skull, or rush you). The constant spray could also serve as a distraction (and could also bait a force push/pull), since if you're just crouching/shiftwalking, jedi could expect some kind of ruse or alternate-than-usual build/strategy.

Granted, if you landed a snipe with the EE3 on a jumping/running jedi, you'd deal more fp drain than westars would.

there's more to westar+wl strategy that EE3 cant substitute i think, but this is all i can stomach typing for now (actually, eg. harder to use ee3 to outsnipe a good dodge hero or outspray at close-range, compared to using a westar/wl build + wrist laser is amazing for landing headshots against wooks at close-range, or surprising gunners at corners , or when you're low on ammo/in-the-middle-of-reloading-and-the-enemy-can-sense-your-vulnerability, or even as a surprise cheese move during fisticuffs, especially against those pesky heal 3 porkins trolls.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

Wow, I really can't agree with you there dude. Pistols flinching reliably? If they fired at the same spot, maybe. But since they have 2 separate crosshairs, close combat is a nightmare.

Then, charge shots. They are good. But ee3 snipes are better. You can snipe twice and then shoot like 10 times before you gotta reload. With pistols, you only release a charge once and then you are reduced to primary fire. Not great.

Then, wristblaster. Replaces the flamethrower. Holds 4-5 shots with super long reload. Fires from the left hand, which makes it weird to aim. Basically a backup pistol 3. Rarely ever needed.

Prove me wrong pls, but I do believe that westars and wristblaster is the worst Mando build you can get.

 

[KaniganTheMando]

Wow, I really can't agree with you there dude. Pistols flinching reliably? If they fired at the same spot, maybe. But since they have 2 separate crosshairs, close combat is a nightmare.

Yeah, it takes a some practice to reliably figure out where to aim at first since the crosshairs sucks at close range (and I guess any range), but essentially you just point really low. As far as I can tell, the closer the saberist is to you, the lower you have to aim to flinch? So it might be more apt to say they're theoretically more accurate with practice. It helps to facehug a wall and shoot with the westars to figure out where they *actually* fire from (based off the scorch marks) and go from there.

I might post a video later showing me flinch with them so it doesn't look like i'm making things up.

Another thing, westars can do tho is flinch those jump swings jedi do to catch a mando's jetpack escape. For example, if you jetpack straight up and a jedi jumps straight up after you, you can spray straight down to flinch and potentially even hit their head.

EE3s cant do that cause aim is off when moving (i think), this relies on holding space key so the jedi can't catch up, and westars dont need to fire in bursts. I suppose you can also fire a wrist-laser shot down or an ee3 snipe (so you'll have to drift up and hope you'll shoot fast enough), but that seems like it'd be really hard n risky to pull off.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

Reliability at close range and westars don't go together. Unless you learned to adjust your aim to the left/right before EVERY shot, it's totally random.
Let me give you an example just so you understand - with ee3 I know where the shots come out of. That's why I know exactly where to aim and can do it on reflex to flinch a jedi close up.
With pistols I have no idea which one of them gonna fire next - that's why I don't know where to aim in order to hit this shot, upon which my life depends.

Also, movement doesn't affect ee3. It's perfectly accurate up to 3 shots, and then it starts to become less and less accurate the more you fire.

 

[KaniganTheMando]

Yeah, I'm aware of the random left/right. I assumed that either shot would hit a saberist if they were close enough, or the westars were fast enough that one of the shots would at least hit (which ofc depends on the saber style, and the distance between the saberist/yourself). So yes, I'd agree westars are not absolutely reliable. It's definitely situational in my opinion.

But I think they still might be more reliable than the ee3 with enough practice (like if you "learned to adjust your left/right"). If you're far enough from a saberist where you need to know which shot (left/right) will come out of your blasters and/or they're constantly strafe-swinging or use-jumping. then may be dodging would be easier rather than flinch? I'm not entirely certain as to why I feel confident flinching with westars, but I suppose I have a feel for situations when I can and when it makes more sense to dodge and run. Are you sure you're just not aiming low enough, the westars are wonky and fire from a weird height?

I think also whittling down "experienced" jedi players with westars is more viable than flinching or sniping with the EE3. But I am not completely sure.

Flinching, sniping, or fp draining an experienced jedi would be very difficult with the ee3. If you attempt to flinch, they can swingblock and adapt their swinging strategy, wait for you to run out of ammo (because your fp drain will not be high enough) or wait for the ee3 to get inaccurate or like I said, swing in between your bursts. Given their constant accuracy while flying you can constantly bait swings with the westars and flinch with enough practice, you have a whole clip to go through when flinching or fp draining a jedi up close, and you can jetpack escape at anytime during your clip while simultaneously attempting to flinch (flinching with the ee3 fails at after a certain time given the reduction in accuracy over time, and jedi could predict this and push/pull before you jetpack away). With the westars, you can also punish jump-swings while dodging them simultaneously for a longer period of time, since landing shots on jumping+ moving jedi does increased fp drain and so do the westars in general, assuming they even swingblock.

Wasn't sure about the ee3 thing, thanks. I know movement at least messes up the aim of the snipe, and during the jetpack-up-to-flinch tactic i mentioned, you can't tell when the jedi will actually swing to hit you (cause of the ceiling, or your own model blocking some of the view if you, like most players, play in third person) so constant spray with westars on a (more or less) horizontally-stationary target makes more sense than sets of 3 shots of accuracy aiming down at an unclear target.

 

[Hellion]

I agree, mechanics in the game like wrist laser I never bothered picking up on because it's practically useless. That and after mind trick got a nerf in 1.4 I stopped using that as well, I never see anyone use these mechanics as it's just impractical for competitive or a winning mind-set gameplay.