The current version of moviebattles is the worst balanced iteration since 2008

KarusBadders

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I agree with lots of things here, but fuck me, you guys make it sound like balancing MBII is easy, lol.
Trust me, if it was that easy, it would have been done already.

Also, I don't even think the proj nerf is THAT bad. Like someone said earlier (sorry for not quoting im tired af), you still did the damage. Besides, it makes hitting headshots with proj more rewarding.

Not saying I'm agreeing with the nerf, but it's not as terrible as some are making it out to be.
I think my main gripe with Open at the moment is knockback, but as Tempest said, knockback on swingblock is already testable, (probably a few weeks (?) till testing, at least that would be my guess).

FP drains are a problem too, but honestly, as long as you're able to land your shots whilst they're swinging, it shouldn't be that big of a deal.
I think FP drains seem even more annoying right now because of knockback, but again, things are being worked on.

There are certain things that need prioritising over others, I think it would help if we changed the way we're providing feedback here on the forums, because even as a normal player, it looks super overwhelming.

Below is my opinion on what needs fixing, first to last (as of now):

Knockback > FP drains > Push range > Wookie > Proj(?) > Disruptor(?) > Other
 
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I agree with lots of things here, but fuck me, you guys make it sound like balancing MBII is easy, lol.
Trust me, if it was that easy, it would have been done already.

Also, I don't even think the proj nerf is THAT bad. Like someone said earlier (sorry for not quoting im tired af), you still did the damage. Besides, it makes hitting headshots with proj more rewarding.

Not saying I'm agreeing with the nerf, but it's not as terrible as some are making it out to be.
I think my main gripe with Open at the moment is knockback, but as Tempest said, knockback on swingblock is already testable, (probably a few weeks (?) till testing, at least that would be my guess).

FP drains are a problem too, but honestly, as long as you're able to land your shots whilst they're swinging, it shouldn't be that big of a deal.
I think FP drains seem even more annoying right now because of knockback, but again, things are being worked on.

There are certain things that need prioritising over others, I think it would help if we changed the way we're providing feedback here on the forums, because even as a normal player, it looks super overwhelming.

Below is my opinion on what needs fixing, first to last (as of now):

Knockback > FP drains > Push range > Wookie > Proj(?) > Disruptor(?) > Other
Agree with this tho I don't feel like proj or disruptor need any further changing tbh
 
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FP drains are a problem too, but honestly, as long as you're able to land your shots whilst they're swinging, it shouldn't be that big of a deal.
That doesn't stop them from swinging because flinch is gone. What happens now is jedi will gladly take your 20 damage hp trade in exchange for killing you instantly. I have had multiple, MULTIPLE fucking encounters with retard jedi where I had to turn on sprint and fucking book it in full reverse the entire time while magdumping them, and they just do NOT fucking stop trying to swing at you.

It's a situation where these fuckheads could of, and really should of pushed me at any moment doing this, but they don't, because they don't fucking have to for 90% of their fights.

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KarusBadders

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That doesn't stop them from swinging because flinch is gone.
What I was trying to say in my post, is that, knockback in itself isn't a bad mechanic, it just simply doesn't work the way we want it to, right now, and due to the fact that the devs have heard our countless winging and are making changes accordingly, we should probably start discussing ways to make knockback/other mechanics better (new ideas are a good thing!)
I have had multiple, MULTIPLE fucking encounters with retard jedi where I had to turn on sprint and fucking book it in full reverse the entire time while magdumping them, and they just do NOT fucking stop trying to swing at you.
Agreed, and this has always been a problem with Open saber gameplay, and probably always will be a problem. It's just a matter of giving players the proper mechanics to deal with it, hence flinch. Though, flinch had problems of it's own, and it would not have been removed in the first place if that was not the case.
Hopefully, once the knockback changes are tested, we can expect some gameplay improvement.
 
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There's also something very off about very closed range gunplay that I think is more than just a panic thing, feels like shots just aren't that consistent when you get to a certain range and it gets really finicky when the bullets hit the saberists saber rather than their body and all these complications. I think it's an issue with the engine and can't be fixed by the devs and is why I prefer knockback over flinch. Because god do things get weird in close combat and I often find myself facehugging whenever i'm using pistol just because it seems to prevent people with higher rates of fire from consistently landing shots on me

If anyone is interested in testing this with a friend the clone rifle seems to act the strangest at close ranges. Strafe alongside a target and continuously fire at them. It might be placebo but I swear its as if shots aren't landing when they should
 
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There's also something very off about very closed range gunplay that I think is more than just a panic thing, feels like shots just aren't that consistent when you get to a certain range and it gets really finicky when the bullets hit the saberists saber rather than their body and all these complications. I think it's an issue with the engine and can't be fixed by the devs and is why I prefer knockback over flinch. Because god do things get weird in close combat and I often find myself facehugging whenever i'm using pistol just because it seems to prevent people with higher rates of fire from consistently landing shots on me

If anyone is interested in testing this with a friend the clone rifle seems to act the strangest at close ranges. Strafe alongside a target and continuously fire at them. It might be placebo but I swear its as if shots aren't landing when they should
It's due to this (the closest thing I can find in the changelog influencing this sensation):

  • Change: Mandalorian Wrist Laser
    • Muzzlepoint standardized according to other guns but on the left side, instead of being tied to the hand position, and bolt trajectory made parallel to camera aim for better consistency instead of going to the center of the dynamic crosshair. This will be slightly inaccurate to the player's crosshair (slightly to its left), unless in melee because the crosshair positioning was adjusted in melee-only, specifically to cater to this wrist laser change.
I've never felt aiming to feel as inconsistent as this before in the last 14 years of the game's history. Other guns' muzzlepoints seem to be tampered, but it is clearly not stated so in the changelog, rather in a contrived way. Such a leap backwards for gun gameplay. Seems like more and more people are starting to notice it.
 
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Fang

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Meh, i noticed it on the first day of the patch, the aiming changes were weird at first but im so adjusted to it now so i guess im used to it
 

Onysfx

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Just got to this thread and read the first few posts. I agree with nearly everything qwerty and Old Ben said.

@Tempest

ARC Suggestions:
Roll recovery should be a default ability for arc, or only require Dex 1.

Being an arc player myself, they definitely need cheaper abilities. Dex 3 is too much of a sacrifice, you get mobility, 1 gun, and that's it.

Dex 2 should have wallrun like Dex 3.

Stamina 3 costs too much and still doesn't regen fast enough. It fking takes forever to regen, and runs out too fast. Better than it was in the past, was even worse in earlier builds but still needs improvements.

Pulse nades have good range, but very little damage and too expensive. Should only be 8 points instead of 10, and nerfed against dekas somewhat.

You should be able to buy 2 rockets instead of having to invest in 1 or 3 (I can see why that might be OP though and make for less interesting builds; in that case make 3 rockets cost 25 points total (makes it a more tempting investment))

I also think the westar pulse launcher needs to be cheaper. 15 points to start!?! That's way too much. Should be 10 points for the gun, another 10 for another nade (or 8 if pulse nades drop price)




tl;dr: Buff stamina regen, decrease Dex levels cost and give roll recovery at dex level 1 or by default, level 2 rockets 25 points total, or allow arc to purchase only 2 rockets.


EDIT: Better idea, remove dex levels altogether, and make all dex abilities default, with the exception of push/pull roll resist, make that it's own ability.
 
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I realize this thread's been asleep for a couple months, but I have a question:

I'm an old player (started in B17 with the old, old Cloud City map and stuck around until 1.0, I think). I was an ARC Trooper main, dex 3, pistol 3. There was never a time in the 6-7 years that I played that pistol 3 ARCs and Mandos weren't beasts, and that build was the favoured of a lot of high-skill gunners (proj was the other one I remember being very popular in the DOTF corridor).

I guess my question is: what's happened to dex 3/pistol 3 ARCs that they sound so useless now? I've been thinking of coming back to see how the game's changed, but I'm very fond of and attached to that build. Is it still in the game, and does it still have the potential to dominate the way it used to? Or has the game changed drastically since, say, 1.0?
 

KarusBadders

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I realize this thread's been asleep for a couple months, but I have a question:

I'm an old player (started in B17 with the old, old Cloud City map and stuck around until 1.0, I think). I was an ARC Trooper main, dex 3, pistol 3. There was never a time in the 6-7 years that I played that pistol 3 ARCs and Mandos weren't beasts, and that build was the favoured of a lot of high-skill gunners (proj was the other one I remember being very popular in the DOTF corridor).

I guess my question is: what's happened to dex 3/pistol 3 ARCs that they sound so useless now? I've been thinking of coming back to see how the game's changed, but I'm very fond of and attached to that build. Is it still in the game, and does it still have the potential to dominate the way it used to? Or has the game changed drastically since, say, 1.0?
Not sure what changes Arc has had since 1.0, but needless to say it's definitely not favourable atm (P3).
Though, I say, give it a go.
 

qwerty

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I realize this thread's been asleep for a couple months, but I have a question:

I'm an old player (started in B17 with the old, old Cloud City map and stuck around until 1.0, I think). I was an ARC Trooper main, dex 3, pistol 3. There was never a time in the 6-7 years that I played that pistol 3 ARCs and Mandos weren't beasts, and that build was the favoured of a lot of high-skill gunners (proj was the other one I remember being very popular in the DOTF corridor).

I guess my question is: what's happened to dex 3/pistol 3 ARCs that they sound so useless now? I've been thinking of coming back to see how the game's changed, but I'm very fond of and attached to that build. Is it still in the game, and does it still have the potential to dominate the way it used to? Or has the game changed drastically since, say, 1.0?
they're still fairly strong and arc in general is S tier. the main reason people don't play them as much anymore is because M5 is much stronger but if you like the playstyle and don't mind playing with a strictly worse weapon choice then duals can still be very effective

i think i should reiterate again as i've played more in the newer versions, my initial take on ARCs in the OP is completely wrong, they're one of the best classes right now
 
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they're still fairly strong and arc in general is S tier. the main reason people don't play them as much anymore is because M5 is much stronger but if you like the playstyle and don't mind playing with a strictly worse weapon choice then duals can still be very effective

i think i should reiterate again as i've played more in the newer versions, my initial take on ARCs in the OP is completely wrong, they're one of the best classes right now
Glad to hear it. I remember when the M5 was added, and it had good adoption--the main draw of the pistols for me were their perfect accuracy and bounce, even if, strictly speaking, there were higher-damage weapons on offer.
 

The Unguided

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I agree with Mando/ARC part as whole.

As for Hero/BH - I wouldn't nerf Disruptor damage. Do not fix what is not broken.
Whatever Proj Rifle turns out to be, I have always got shot down by one hit whether chest or not - except some extreme classes or high armor ofc. Even if it takes 2 shots in the chest, after the first shot the damaged player should have super low HP, being able to be killed by a relatively weak damage followingly. And even that would be a kind of mehish if you ask me. I mean, it's a goddamn sniper bullet, average classes should not survive that unless it hits legs. Plus, being a sniper should take some skill. High risk - high reward.

As for saber vs. guns: flinch vs. knockback. I know it will be an unpopular opinion, but I feel like both came to existence because gunners can't aim. A gunner has whether reinf/more HP/grenades/blobs/cortosis or something extra to kill Jedi/Sith. Remove swingblock deflection, fine. Then again, all the gunners have to do is not being a potatoe tactically speaking and learn to aim properly. Aim takes skill yes, but that's inherent of playing as gunners. And as Ben said, FP drains are more important at the end.

As for wookiees: I don't think rage is a bad thing when it comes to wooks being offensive and "in-the-front" classes as you say. Wookiees are the the krogans of Star Wars, so they should be. I have no idea why Bowcaster was nerfed, it made gameplay more flat as I see. I'd probably go with something like Ben says about the weapon. Or something like a more tricky Bowcaster like the base JK one.
 
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Flinch was way better than this half-baked knockback (full knockback would be even more ridiculous IMO, like shots having force push >_<).
High drain, high regen is a bad idea in my book, too.

I realize this is about balance, however the class-change bug regularly ticks me off even more.
 
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