Suggestion: Speed is universal
- Thread starter [TG]trap
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![[TG]trap](/data/avatars/m/9/9246.jpg?1612113845){kind=avatar}
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I'm unsure how serious this suggestion is, but just to list out all the pros/cons of each side, since there's a valid gameplay argument for both right now.
Pro Speed for Sith:
- Allows Sith to chase down Jedi who abuse speed to run away from fights.
- Gives Sith speedlunge, giving them another option against Reb gunners.
- Buffs Sith forcewhore more (though the balancing behind that is a different discussion)
- Gives Sith more offensive options in the maps where Imps are on offense, since they can rotate faster
Anti Speed for Sith:
- Sith with speed would be a nightmare to break through on defense, since their effective pushing radius is way bigger with speed allowing them to speed in place to push rockets/nades.
- There's less uses for Sith speedlunge since Jedi can use it on SBD/Deka (big, mostly stationary targets) whereas Sith would be targetting heroes, Arcs, clones, and Wookiees, so speedlunge wouldn't really help Sith more than Lightning or Grip.
- Absolutely bodies any sort of non-Jedi Reb flank since wallhack + speed = flank gone.
Personally I think speed should be Jedi-only solely because of how broken it is on defense, where it absolutely BTFOs most flanking maneuvers (even hero is slow af compared to speed), and the counter to that is just everyone using speed which becomes kinda dumb. I do get wanting speed on Sith but it's not necessary IMO and would disrupt more than help gameplay.
Pro Speed for Sith:
- Allows Sith to chase down Jedi who abuse speed to run away from fights.
- Gives Sith speedlunge, giving them another option against Reb gunners.
- Buffs Sith forcewhore more (though the balancing behind that is a different discussion)
- Gives Sith more offensive options in the maps where Imps are on offense, since they can rotate faster
Anti Speed for Sith:
- Sith with speed would be a nightmare to break through on defense, since their effective pushing radius is way bigger with speed allowing them to speed in place to push rockets/nades.
- There's less uses for Sith speedlunge since Jedi can use it on SBD/Deka (big, mostly stationary targets) whereas Sith would be targetting heroes, Arcs, clones, and Wookiees, so speedlunge wouldn't really help Sith more than Lightning or Grip.
- Absolutely bodies any sort of non-Jedi Reb flank since wallhack + speed = flank gone.
Personally I think speed should be Jedi-only solely because of how broken it is on defense, where it absolutely BTFOs most flanking maneuvers (even hero is slow af compared to speed), and the counter to that is just everyone using speed which becomes kinda dumb. I do get wanting speed on Sith but it's not necessary IMO and would disrupt more than help gameplay.
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I think we should try it out and see how it works, theorizing about all the possible problems won't do as well as actually putting it into LIVE and playing with it.
@DEVS
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cannonfodder
Internal Beta Team
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I love speed, I use it on every build I have and I abuse the hell out of it when I do. But If I want to see this game be even remotely balanced, Sith should NOT be able to use speed. Imp team is based mostly upon firepower, while Reb team is based around mobility, If you give speed to sith, that gives sith a direct ability to counter that mobility. Run up on an arc and swing at him? The moment he dex rolls away I use speed and close the distance in 1 second. Now the arc's roll is on cooldown. Fighting caster wooks at a distance? Red Speedlunge (even easier to land cause the wook is a massive target) Fighting caster/rage wook up close? Red speedlunge, its faster than cyan and will hit the wook no matter what cause of his size. You'd be giving sith 2 abilities that straight up shut down rebels- lightning and grip- and then a 3rd ability that lets a sith close any distance quickly as well. Sith would be able to insta kill wookiees by throwing red swings that are faster than cyan via speedlunge up close. And in the same way that a speed sith would be able to chase a jedi, He'd also be able to chase a hero, a wook, an arc, any rebel class, most of which were built with mobility in mind.
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I think Sith should be given the force dashes that the Second Sister has in Fallen Order. Something more committal and less versatile. It could be used to dash away to close by cover or jump into the air quickly, but have a high force cost.
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I suggest only giving the speed ability to black characters, who should acquire it automatically without having to spend points.
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Ok, but for balancing sake they cannot swim
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sith get drain. jedi get tutaminis, make it happen devs, the people want to block blasters with their hands
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What would be better, but probably impossible to do or require too much work, is to allow mapmakers or server admins to enable or disable abilities/force powers per map. So you could enable speed for Sith when they are attacking and disable it for Jedi when they are defending. Also, you could disable Sense on maps that were made for big use of flanking or disable Rage for Wookies on small maps, etc.
Helix
Movie Battles II Team Retired
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That'd be weird, I can't think of any session-based game where the abilities of the classes would be affected by the current map.
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Maybe but would increase playability of some maps. For example, Jakku without snipers and maps with mostly open areas could be playable. I don't remember any game that would allow for extensively modifying classes. I know that you can lock weapons in Counter-Strike per map but that is different since there is only one class. Also, Red Orchestra 2 has slightly different load-outs for Elite classes on some maps.
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in halo (3 and reach) and quake live theres different (non-weapon) abilities and in many maps not all are available. just imagine sense 2 and 3 disabled on all maps. or even all sense levels disabled on all maps
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This was a thing several years back, along with Jedi Heal. Heal was removed because it was kinda campy and, well, healing in corners, and speed was made Jedi-only cuz it didn't play well with Reb mobility classes (arc roll = speed + slash, wookiee = speedlunge or just kite slaps/barge with speed, using speed to dodge blobs, being able to do the speed hover jump into lightning for unavoidable damage). Some things in the past were cool but IMO this is not one of them. Giving sith speed doesn't really address any pressing gameplay issues, only introduces new ones for now.
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Back when heal was a thing in b17 aka 2007, the lightsaber blade dealt damage when it touched the body. Every bodyhit drained HP and there was even a blue bug that locked the lunge animation so you could stick the saber inside someone and constantly burn their HP. Since everything was reliant on HP as a jedi/sith, it was quite the powerful tool and of course, since a jedi was likely to fight a sith and the more HP you had, the easier it was to win, heal was naturally very campy because you wanted to stock up on as much HP as possible before engaging the enemy. This is not so in modern MBII.
Since then, people have constantly used this era misguidedly to vociferate against heal in open mode because it's campy, when we no longer suffer from the HP issue, thus rendering it much less of an issue. In any case, the addition of heal is suggested as filler for when sith gets speed in open, but I think it's not particularly suited for current MBII. Since the sith have lightning for range, some sort of staggering force projectile might be better, I dunno. But it's probably a moot point since speed will never get in open again and we'll be stuck with these force powers until and maybe even after, a major overhaul.
I still think sith in duel mode should have speed. Who cares about open mode any way? At least one positive of the devs being unable to do saber development in a timely fashion, is that dueling remains relatively unmolested by stupid ideas that have grinded down open mode gameplay over the last few years.
GeneralKenobi
Internal Beta Team
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cries in wookiee
GeneralKenobi
Internal Beta Team
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no pls
