Suggestion on improving gunners.

[Alkatjo]

It's come to my attention that too many gunners are being ruthlessly sniped! The amount of gunner casualties are in quote "Too damn high". While i do think that playing an aggressive gunner style can really wrack up that kd, i propose a new gunner stat/play style exclusive to infantry. (This does not correlate to sbds/dekas).

A defensive perk given to infantry who purchase dex 3, not only allowing them to currently roll and such, but also allowing them to peak out of cover! Now before you shoot down this suggestion, just here me out . Most of the maps I've seen heavy amounts of newbie trooper death involve heavy amounts of heroes/bounty hunters and occasionally the 3 stat sniper/blaster mandos. Maps such as lunarbase and dotf can heavily lock down part of the map with or without saber wielding enemy/friends. Sure the troopers have those corners to run out of but it's just not enough. Snipers can predict these movements easily. To compensate this, i was thinking the infantry could throw their weapon out of cover for a little bit and let out a burst of fire to deter the enemy to not fire back for some time. This has many uses.

1.The short burst needed to make the enemy go back into cover can allow an advancing party the time they need to flank or flush out the enemy.
2.The sniper might get over-competent and might be hit by a stray projectile forcing him to duck again.
3.Infantry are now granted just a tiny bit more leverage so they don't end up shooting each other in the halls, and instead, can coordinate advancement with each other.

Here is an example of what I am referring to.

Notice the guy on the left. Weather it be a skill, a purchase, or a default ability. I think this mechanic would be great in MB2. I'm open to constructive criticism as to why this would/wouldn't work.

 

[NERO]

Unnecessary.

A bunch of hints for fighting snipers:
1. Come out of cover for a second and then go back. Hardly any sniper can take proper aim in that time, and they will likely take the bait and try to shoot at you, most likely missing the shot. When they reload, you have time to advance to another cover, or it gives an opening for your snipers to take aim.

2. For the best snipers, it takes 1.5-2 seconds to set their aim on someone. Average and less than that will take 3 to 5 seconds. If you're going to advance on snipers, or want to fire at them, you should leave your cover for only a short period of time and return before they can shoot at you.

3. Assuming there are no sith, throw a grenade at where the sniper's holed up (if it's possible to throw a grenade) after doing a maneuver like in part 1. They're either gonna shoot and die, or retreat until the grenade has blown up. That's plenty of time to switch covers.

4. If none works, maybe play sniper yourself to kill the enemy snipers, or go jedi to push the line closer to the snipers.

5. For all points from 1 to 4, never do predictable maneuvers. That will definitely get you shot.

Personally, I'd just demand they return the old projectile rifle speed, but nobody will ever agree to that.

Also, being able to put your weapon out of cover and fire with it so that you can see would make snipers obsolete in the hands of people who can aim well in long distances without scopes. It'd also be a TKfest if you can't see.

Peace. And war. This is Star Wars, after all.

 

[Stassin]

For the best snipers, it takes 1.5-2 seconds to set their aim on someone

Gross overestimation, or your notion of time is inaccurate, the correct number would be 0.5 second or less depending on the situation.

About the proposed idea, i'm afraid it's kinda the point of snipers to do this job of suppressing areas. They are supposed to be more effective than normal guns when it comes to long or even middle-range combat, if they weren't that would mean they are nothing but useless. Even so, they take skill to be effective in such situations because you're betting your success on single powerful shots, there is less room for error than with usual higher rate of fire guns.
That's why this mod is meant to be based on teamwork, where you'll have a jedi/sith or sniper ally to help you push forward against such odds. Of course it is difficult to move forward when facing a sniper of similar skill at long range as a trooper, since you are at an advantage at close range after all. Nevertheless as NERO said you can use baiting manoeuvers to push your way forward, such that if you have better skills than the sniper you're facing you'll most likely be able to defeat him even at long range (better aim/reaction times/tactics and prediction). Some guns are better than others for that too (A280). If the skill level is similar or skew in the opponent sniper's favor, then you are definitely going to need teamwork or a miracle.

Open mode doesn't always provide the best teamwork... so i can understand that this might seem like a problem, but this mod is primarily balanced around "competitive" scenarios where abusing class complementarities is a must.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

The game is very heavy on the defender's advantage as is. This is largely due to map layouts featuring a lot of closed doors, long corridors and wide open spaces with only a select few entrypoints. So rather than trying to introduce a clunky cover-based system that will just restrict movement, maps will be looked at to allow for options to circumvent heavy sniper killzones and force the sniper to be more active on duty.

Boosting offensive options is a much better direction if snipers are a problem. Due to Jedi/Sith, the regular tool for dealing with snipers (grenades) is largely out of the question, so this makes a direct offense harder. We have gradually been introducing more spread out avenues of attack into rooms and I find that it has done a terrific job at giving the game some much needed break from sniper domination.

Maps such as Alderaan and Smuggler stand testament to how the gameplay changes based on map design. Sniping on these maps is very niche and you are generally better off going without a sniper unless you are exceptionally good.

As we develop maps further, understanding the impact a long corridor or a wide open space can have on gameplay will be crucial.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

I don't think you can even do that in this engine, like peaking around and blind firing.
When you can go to 3rd person and just look over corners or over boxes. The only thing I would give to gunners is faster walking speeds depending on classes and skills. Like if the soldier has close combat 2, his walk speed should be faster besides just running. Wookie, and sbd I wouldn't touch, they need to be slow. I would say guns need more tweaking than the gunner classes.

Also sniping in this game is a nightmare, you need lots of practice to actually hit anything moving.
I always avoided snipers by shooting at them and doing zig zags, and unless they move they will get hit by my blasts. So they move but thier gun becomes inaccurate while moving, and need to stand still.
I am assuming the people bitching about sniping are all the jedi/sith because god forbid they develop awareness skills which are mandatory with a gun.

You just have to shoot at them when they stand still and not run in straight lines. Hitting them is a bonus, not necessary at all until you actually get close.

 

[Revanic]

It is possible actually. A similar thing would be SOF2, same engine, but it allows you to lean around corners and fire. ( Also made by the same people, Ravensoft ) Either way, I don't really want this either.

 

[Preston]

I don't think you can even do that in this engine, like peaking around and blind firing.
When you can go to 3rd person and just look over corners or over boxes. The only thing I would give to gunners is faster walking speeds depending on classes and skills. Like if the soldier has close combat 2, his walk speed should be faster besides just running. Wookie, and sbd I wouldn't touch, they need to be slow. I would say guns need more tweaking than the gunner classes.

Also sniping in this game is a nightmare, you need lots of practice to actually hit anything moving.
I always avoided snipers by shooting at them and doing zig zags, and unless they move they will get hit by my blasts. So they move but thier gun becomes inaccurate while moving, and need to stand still.
I am assuming the people bitching about sniping are all the jedi/sith because god forbid they develop awareness skills which are mandatory with a gun.

You just have to shoot at them when they stand still and not run in straight lines. Hitting them is a bonus, not necessary at all until you actually get close.

I agree that I wouldnt want this in game, but I completely disagree about sniping being a nightmare, now yes ive had lots of practice,but even when I just started I've always loved the sniping in this game. Its simple, theres no stupid breathing and holding down breath, no bullet drop, and its completely accurate, you can go in and out of cover in main on dotf as a hero or bh in less than half a second if you are pretty good at it. I love it because its just simple and not hard to learn, it just is all about aiming and lining up your shots if you are doing pop sniping and the such. And I love how it take awhile to reload and you can't just spam snipe, and that it does alot of damage because its just one small bullet or laser.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

People need to stop using dotf as means of reference when it comes to class balancing.

 

[Preston]

People need to stop using dotf as means of reference when it comes to class balancing.

Dotf or not I dont see how sniping is a "nightmare" what do you not like about it? The only thing I could see people dont like about it is that it isnt accurate when moving and that you cant do like no scopes with it

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

I am not saying I don't like it, what im saying is that it's hard with this engine and how slow everything is with projectiles.
Its very easy to avoid snipers, the people I see complaining are the people dueling and getting sniped because they forget gunners exsist.

 

[Preston]

I am not saying I don't like it, what im saying is that it's hard with this engine and how slow everything is with projectiles.

What exactly do you mean its hard in this engine? Like sniping itself or the coding is hard? And projectiles are really quite fast with sniping and they use to be alot slower than this. Its like battlefield or whatever where you have to aim infront

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

What exactly do you mean its hard in this engine? Like sniping itself or the coding is hard? And projectiles are really quite fast with sniping and they use to be alot slower than this. Its like battlefield or whatever where you have to aim infront

Dude, I played games like Red orchestra, insurgency, arma. Bullets are slow in this, maybe even slower than quake.
Impact is instant in those games, you just hear the sound and your character falls.
Now this isn't a bad thing at all, its what makes this game unique and I am perfectly fine with it.

Battlefield is fucked because of how buggy that game is so I don't even consider it in my years of fps experience.
I haven't played enough of the older bf games to know how fast bullets are in those.

 

[Preston]

Dude, I played games like Red orchestra, insurgency, arma. Bullets are slow in this, maybe even slower than quake.

Battlefield is fucked because of how buggy that game is so I don't even consider it in my years of fps experience.

Well bullet time makes this games aiming require skill and timing. Not just point and win like games such as call of duty or whatever. I dont think anyone wants snipers any faster than it is now, infact anyone I see that actually complainst about it wants the bullets slower. And I hardly ever see that

 

[Preston]

And I still dont know what you mean by hard in this engine? Do you mean its hard to snipe? Or hard to make the sniper like instagib?

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Well bullet time makes this games aiming require skill and timing.

This is why I call it a nightmare, its not like the awp in counter strike where its a point and click weapon.
Also use the edit button.

 

[Preston]

This is why I call it a nightmare, its not like the awp in counter strike where its a point and click weapon.
Also use the edit button.

I didnt use the edit button because I thought you would be writng back by the time I thought of that. And so basically you are saying its a nightmare because its difficult to hit targets because of the bullet time correct?

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

I didnt use the edit button because I thought you would be writng back by the time I thought of that. And so basically you are saying its a nightmare because its difficult to hit targets because of the bullet time correct?

Yes
When you play realistic shooters for years, it takes some adjusting to get used to bullet time in this.
And I would only snipe in this game where there are situations where people are obvious to where I am.

 

[Preston]

Yes
When you play realistic shooters for years, it takes some adjusting to get used to bullet time in this.

Alright so its a thing of practice because of something you are use to doing while sniping in games. So its not necessarily a nightmare for everyone, just for people who are use to years of practice with instagib sniping. You may change your mind if you start sniping more and get use to the system, but idk maybe you still wont like it then

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

You may change your mind if you start sniping more and get use to the system, but idk maybe you still wont like it then

I never said I hated sniping in this, I just said its hard and exaggerated by dubbing it "nightmare" for comedic affect.
Come on man I already said this, twice infact.

I am not saying I don't like it, what im saying is that it's hard with this engine and how slow everything is with projectiles.

Dude, I played games like Red orchestra, insurgency, arma. Bullets are slow in this, maybe even slower than quake.
Impact is instant in those games, you just hear the sound and your character falls.
Now this isn't a bad thing at all, its what makes this game unique and I am perfectly fine with it.

 

[Preston]

I never said I hated sniping in this, I just said its hard and exaggerated by dubbed it "nightmare" for comedic affect.
Come on man I already said this, twice infact.

I didnt say what I meant on accident I was rushed. What I meant is with more experience in sniping in mb2 with bullet time you might find it easier than what you do now and may actually find it quite easy and fun aswell, and yes I know you didnt say that you didnt like it, I said the wrong words.