Suggestion about wookies immunity to the Force.

[FrenzY]

Tend to agree with @Kodar here, with the exception of the Fury damage reduction vs. sabers. I think with crouching not being an ez win for Sith, damage reduction should be lowered for enraged Wooks vs sabers. They should not tank more than two swings as seen in @SrsSpy's vid (but should still barely survive more than one red swing - it's a fine line).

 

[Sag]

Players complaining about wookiee just honestly need to actively try and get better at playing the game instead of coming to the forums complaining when they get outplayed.

 

[Jay Brando]

so does having JUST grip 3 work on wookies not seem fair to everyone else? it takes ages to get grip to activate so it feels like it'd be fair with melee sith vs melee wook

 

[SeV]

Tend to agree with @Kodar here, with the exception of the Fury damage reduction vs. sabers. I think with crouching not being an ez win for Sith, damage reduction should be lowered for enraged Wooks vs sabers. They should not tank more than two swings as seen in @SrsSpy's vid (but should still barely survive more than one red swing - it's a fine line).

A melee wookiee should not be able to win against a lightsaber if the sith plays propely. If you have the timing to hit a wookiee with red+crouch as he's coming in, you should kill him without any retarded bullshit. That forces the retarded wook player to git gud and try to bait swings or get better use out of grenades/teamwork instead of just yoloing. Funny how you say that it should not be an 'ez' win for the sith. The most 'ez' win class in the entire game is a melee wook. It's childplay to abuse in open to get fury, enrage and mow down a whole flock of players who literally have no counter other than running away. An SBD has pulse grenades/clone blobs as a counter, it has energy that will be drained upon damage etc. An enraged wook has no counter. You can't even shoot it to knock it back properly. It just holds w and m1 and wins. That's the most ez class in the entire game and by removing sith's 'ez' win you remove the viability of the only real counter that used to exist for melee wook, namely red+crouch. (And please, the sith probably even spent points to get red style to counter the melee wook because there's like no other reason to get it in open mode, so congrats, you remove the only reason sith would get red style).

It's such a shit design. It's very boring to play, like deka. I don't think boring classes/specs that take no skill, should be super strong. They should be average at best. I'm okay with bowcaster being Godcaster precisely because it takes skill, unlike melee wook.

These are furballs, meat and bones. The wookiees don't have cortosis armor like SBDS. They are hairy apes. Sith should be able to slice them to pieces if they have the correct crouch timing and use red style.

I think the better way to design melee wook is probably to delete rage and give them vibroswords and possibly increased movement speed. If not, then someone who takes strength 3 to be a melee wook would go for a couple of grenades like in the old days and just secondary into crouch punching.

This whole stagger thing is just not a good mechanic. In lightsaber dueling it was tried many times, but it always turns out to feel like shit because it locks input with no recourse. A secondary grenade is far superior to stagger because not only do you have to switch to the grenade, signaling the sith, it also allows the sith to react with a push or distance etc. It promotes more skill and interactive gameplay than having a silly unavoidable stagger. If you could crouch to IGNORE the stagger, that would be something else, though the entire melee wook/rage mechanic is, as others have mentioned before me, just plain bad design that should be scrapped and reworked either going the vibro route or just fleshing out gunner wook and keeping melee wook to the old strength 3 + grenades design.

 

[Duckshark]

The difference between having to "get good" versus thinking something is broken is a fine line, but imho the criticism of the design of the class is warranted since the interaction boils down to the wookie strafing around like a drunkard and then holding W and M1 when close and the gunner doing a weird running crouching dance to try to avoid getting punched. Yes, we all know wookies still get lawnmowered by sustained fire or by range, or by headshots and high rof guns. It's just that it really enforces a passive imp play to camp really far away and a dumb reb play of "just hold W man". We don't want to see jedi W + M1 spam, even if it's even easier to beat than wookie W + M1 spam. It's not engaging and thus a rework should be considered.

Also consider, sith being immune to wookie by crouching was during the era of terrible fp drain and nonexistent knockback on standing jedi/sith, We now play in a patch where concentrated fire from >2 gunners on standing jedi/sith forces them to move and back up, so also having wookie able to dislodge a crouching sith with red is unnecessary considering his teammates should easily be able to force the sith to back up with fp drains/smart grenade use. Wookie doesn't even really counter the real issues with imps/defense in MB2, namely charged westar spam, SBD FP3 down hallways, and deka literally denying an entire hallway without dedicated hard counters. What rebs really need are pushing tools against concentrated fire, not a class that can run through a crouching red sith.

 

[FrenzY]

This whole stagger thing is just not a good mechanic. In lightsaber dueling it was tried many times, but it always turns out to feel like shit because it locks input with no recourse. A secondary grenade is far superior to stagger because not only do you have to switch to the grenade, signaling the sith, it also allows the sith to react with a push or distance etc. It promotes more skill and interactive gameplay than having a silly unavoidable stagger. If you could crouch to IGNORE the stagger, that would be something else, though the entire melee wook/rage mechanic is, as others have mentioned before me, just plain bad design that should be scrapped and reworked either going the vibro route or just fleshing out gunner wook and keeping melee wook to the old strength 3 + grenades design.

The point of the stagger addition was for it to be more of a 'touche' moment where neither class benefits much and are both reset to have at it again rather than something which gives the Wook a free punch after the stagger. The stagger should be setup timing-wise so that a good sith should be given enough time between the barge and the Wook's slap (after being staggered) could easily get out of the way/create space to get a swing in by either jumping or dodging with footwork. If it currently is allowing for free punches or slaps after the stagger, it is not properly implemented.

 

[Shadow-]

I forgot to add, a few patches ago (maybe a year ago) Wookies were given a free pistol to have so image you're a solider, sith , force whore sith trying to run from a melee wookie and he says "Nah" and pulls out a pistol that does 15 per shot or 40ish per headshot.

Now Add that thought to a melee wook player that knows how to bait swings, he can either bait a swing and throw a few punches or bait a swing and quickly switch to his blaster and shoot the Sith once or twice.

So lets say Melee wooks are nerfed to be effected by more force powers, they still got that blaster to shoot ya with

 

[[SE] Maren]

I forgot to add, a few patches ago (maybe a year ago) Wookies were given a free pistol to have so image you're a solider, sith , force whore sith trying to run from a melee wookie and he says "Nah" and pulls out a pistol that does 15 per shot or 40ish per headshot.

Now Add that thought to a melee wook player that knows how to bait swings, he can either bait a swing and throw a few punches or bait a swing and quickly switch to his blaster and shoot the Sith once or twice.

So lets say Melee wooks are nerfed to be effected by more force powers, they still got that blaster to shoot ya with

Totally, I'd somewhat understand if there were more specialised builds where if you wanted to be a full on warrior wookie you had to sacrifice pistol and maybe even some agility. but devs struggle with classes and making them fun to fight and be used as. I heard (and support) this wonderful suggestion where the wookies had a vibroblade so they would be this unknockable wookie with a sword which could counter potential Commander/Soldier buffs like with my proposed ideas that have yet to be implemented

 

[cannonfodder]

I forgot to add, a few patches ago (maybe a year ago) Wookies were given a free pistol to have so image you're a solider, sith , force whore sith trying to run from a melee wookie and he says "Nah" and pulls out a pistol that does 15 per shot or 40ish per headshot.

Now Add that thought to a melee wook player that knows how to bait swings, he can either bait a swing and throw a few punches or bait a swing and quickly switch to his blaster and shoot the Sith once or twice.

So lets say Melee wooks are nerfed to be effected by more force powers, they still got that blaster to shoot ya with

Swingblock is a thing that exists you know

Ok, how about that

He crouched, which used to be a valid counterplay. He attempted to 4-hit the wook but first 2 swings were eaten by the barge. In fact it would probably be better for him if he didn't crouch, wook would launch him away, he'd be able to do a quick get-up and survive.
My point is that sith timed everything perfectly, there was literally nothing else he could do to kill the wook and the only counterplay they used to have is more than pointless now. I'm just a silly gunner main so maybe I'm missing something, but what can you do in situation like this other than just running away and hope that he won't catch you until his fury runs off?

I would be ok with barge stagger if their force resistance was nerfed a bit. Push/pull definitely shouldn't knock them down like some ppl suggested here imo, that would be 2 much. But it could have a similar effect as it has on sbds, slightly moving them away to give you some room to breathe. It would giveimps more options to deal with charging wook instead of just panicking when they see one, and could make melee wook vs sith duels actually interesting and interactive.

That sith did not time everything perfectly, his first mistake was engaging the wookiee while it was in rage mode, Sith has this incredible ability called Jump, that a wookiee in rage mode can do absolutely nothing against, if the sith jumped on the ship or wallgrabbed, the wook could do nothing but stare at him until his rage ran out, and then he'd be in a weakened state (takes more damage, deals less damage, and is slower) for at least 5 seconds. secondly, He did a W into D swing, which on its own is fine, albeit the W swing is risky cause it lacks the horizontal range of any other swing, but his 3rd swing was a HALFSWING, not a consecutive, if he had done a consecutive instead of a halfswing, he would have killed the wook even if it were in rage mode.

Barge stagger as it has been is dumb imo, because it forces you to restart your swing entirely, so with red its just really fucking strong, If I could have my way, I'd make it pause the swing instead of canceling it entirely (like ion blobs do), so that the sith doesn't have to go through windup again. But there are also more ways to deal with rage wooks than just Red. As of 1.6, barge only does 15 damage or so, so if you ran style combos like blue + purp, you have a lot more counter options against the barge. Both styles have a lunge, so if you expect the barge, you can quickly lunge with either blue or purp to get a quick 120-300 damage in an instant. If the wook is dancing around you, you can risk going for the quick blue swing (no speed penalty on the sith cause its blue) to put it in killing range with purple. at that point you can just wait out the wook for his barge attack and get an insta kill with purp stab. Same thing in reverse, if you had landed a single purp swing earlier, you can now just swing at the wook with blue. And at any point if the wook used up his barge, you can either rush him with some blue swings or purp swings (purp has one of the best jump swings with AS, as it reaches pretty far down below the sith). Even if I do get hit by the barge, I can get an incredibly quick swing with blue, Or an incredibly quick lunge with Purple (albeit I'd only go for it if I know the wook is in killing HP 300 or below). Red is not the only counter to a wookiee as sith.

 

[NERO]

Got a wild thought, this is just an example and not the direct suggestion for the exact mechanic, but what if sith got hyper armor for the first swing of a combo that would prevent them from being knocked down by the tackle, and the tackle only. Dunno if that's even possible to implement without messing with other knockdown related stuff though. Might be too radical even if possible.

Anyway, the core of the idea is that the dynamic could be changed so that the wookiee has to actually fear the attacks from the sith, also giving the sith an advantage that can make them take the initiative, instead of waiting for the tackle to happen so that they can go in for a combo without fear of a stagger, and wookiees in turn would have to time their attack as well. Just wanted to flip the idea around, that instead of nerfing, why not figure out a game mechanic that can make the dynamic more balanced without taking away from either side, or taking a huge detour in reworking an entire class, or even worse, adding a crutch just to deal with one class/build combo.

Rage could maybe use a shorter duration. I'd be all for the resource being easier to gather, but the effect lasting less time. Wookiees would have to pull off more calculated attacks with rage, which could also be more flexible for a larger variety of population in-game.

 

[cannonfodder]

Rage could maybe use a shorter duration. I'd be all for the resource being easier to gather, but the effect lasting less time. Wookiees would have to pull off more calculated attacks with rage, which could also be more flexible for a larger variety of population in-game.

As of 1.6 rage overall does last less time than it used to, wooks gain less rage while in rage mode, and rage drains slowly when it's not active. Still can last a long while, but not as long as it used to.

 

[JamJarBinks]

He slaughtered them like animals. And not just the pro-players, but the noobs, and the memers too.

 

[[SE] Maren]

Got a wild thought, this is just an example and not the direct suggestion for the exact mechanic, but what if sith got hyper armor for the first swing of a combo that would prevent them from being knocked down by the tackle, and the tackle only. Dunno if that's even possible to implement without messing with other knockdown related stuff though. Might be too radical even if possible.

Anyway, the core of the idea is that the dynamic could be changed so that the wookiee has to actually fear the attacks from the sith, also giving the sith an advantage that can make them take the initiative, instead of waiting for the tackle to happen so that they can go in for a combo without fear of a stagger, and wookiees in turn would have to time their attack as well. Just wanted to flip the idea around, that instead of nerfing, why not figure out a game mechanic that can make the dynamic more balanced without taking away from either side, or taking a huge detour in reworking an entire class, or even worse, adding a crutch just to deal with one class/build combo.

Rage could maybe use a shorter duration. I'd be all for the resource being easier to gather, but the effect lasting less time. Wookiees would have to pull off more calculated attacks with rage, which could also be more flexible for a larger variety of population in-game.

I think a lot of classes need a rework anyway, but i've suggested a similar idea where they can do a Savage build with no knockdown at the expense of a lot of points.

 

[sentrysteve]

Just dropping my two cents here; it sure would be nice if there was an in game counter (like nearly every other class has) other than literally having to do every possible thing perfectly to kill a rage wook. Even in this thread, in the videos posted, people are going to great lengths to point to one single error in an otherwise perfect counter that resulted in death or near-death for the sith. Suggestions like 'sith should have wallgrabbed and let rage run out' are not practical in actual games, where it is very likely a gunner would just shoot the sith. The skill required to "counter" or "outplay" a rage wookie is nowhere near the amount required to get rage and walk forward. Additionally, these 'the sith should have done this' comments aren't representative of actual gameplay and often sith, in their attempts to counter play a rage wookie, are required to place themself in a poor positions relative to other players.

I suppose whether that is or isn't balanced is debatable, but let's leave idea of "balance" behind and talk about fun. A single rage wookie dramatically changes the flow of combat more so than any other class, has no real actual counter, commands absurd amounts of space, and they're just awful to play against. When you start to stack up two, three, four rage wookies on a single team it's no longer possible to perfectly counter them and the game loses its fun.

Significant changes need to happen with rage wookie. I don't truly know the game well enough to make useful suggestions, but I do know they ruin games, especially when there are multiples of them. I like the idea that they have melee options, it completely fits within what people think about wookies, but I almost wish they would see a sith and run in fear rather than looking at a sith as a likely next kill.

 

[mage!]

 

[NERO]

I'd like to return to my earlier point about making both the gain and loss of rage faster. I'm not sure what the duration of rage is right now, but if we say it's 13 seconds or more, that's too much for what I had in mind. I'll go into more detail to try to avoid any misunderstandings.

Basically, make a full rage last maybe 6 or 7 seconds. Or even shorter, 4 to 5 seconds? Choosing the right duration is important because too much or too little will make it too strong for low population, and too weak in high population respectively.

The idea being that a wookiee has to select the right moment to use rage, and would attack one or two key targets with it, using rage to amplify speed, damage and defense for the duration of a quick 'poke' at the enemy team. I know a rampage is more what people think about when a wookiee gets pissed, but it's not like everything in these games follow Star Wars rules to the T.

On the flipside, make it easier to gain rage. You could get a full bar faster, maybe add (back?) more ways to gain rage in the first place. So melee wookiees have to do their thing to gain rage, go in quickly, then retreat, preferably rely a bit on their team or have a short enough escape route ready to not die instantly from gunfire or snipers, rinse and repeat.

This could maybe ruin rage wookiees, could maybe make them campier which is a pain in the ass, could maybe make them work better in more situations without nerfing them to oblivion, I don't know. It's an idea. People rarely take my ideas seriously.

 

[Hessu]

Rage builds up too fast, 1 sold killed and you can rekt everyone

 

[Eazy E]

So many retards in this thread I don't know where to begin.

Forcewhore is a very situational playstyle and is not meant to be able to fight on fair and even ground against other classes/playstyles. It dominates against certain groups (Solds), gets wiped by some (SBDs and Wooks) and is somewhat balanced against others (Saberists, Heroes/BHs) although the odds are usually more against the FWs as it lacks many defensive capabilities (no saber defence to block/deflect).

People complaining that they can't "Crouch and Slash" and destroy wook players with ease are also inexperienced newfags who have 0 understanding of mechanics. Crouch and Slash was NEVER a counter to melee wook, it was just a quick way to counter BAD wook players, even before the barge stagger was introduced fighting an experienced melee wook was not easy. They would wait for you to expend your combo swings and hit you in the small cooldown period between combos, they would make sure you were forced into crouching and thus not able to chase and use their pistol if they could not hit you with melee hits to bait you into charging.

The barge stagger is a mixed bag, some people think it makes playing melee wook too easy but honestly if your response to barges is to crouch you deserve to die. The barge forces the wook to run in a straight line and wooks don't exactly move at a very fast pace (they aren't rolling dekas) the trick to countering wook barges is just to literally move out of the way (The wook cannot change direction mid-barge) and slash them in the back. If you aren't fast enough to stop crouching and move two steps to the left/right to dodge a barge then you need to get more experience, it is by no means impossible.

Rage does build up too fast though, it should either build up slower or build up super fast but only last like 5 seconds.

 

[JamJarBinks]

Rage does build up too fast though, it should either build up slower or build up super fast but only last like 5 seconds.

I dunno Eric, I think 5 seconds is way too short. A lot of combat happens in corridors where both sides are on extreme opposite ends.

What do you think about 10 seconds?

 

[Fluffy |>]

So many retards in this thread I don't know where to begin.

Forcewhore is a very situational playstyle and is not meant to be able to fight on fair and even ground against other classes/playstyles. It dominates against certain groups (Solds), gets wiped by some (SBDs and Wooks) and is somewhat balanced against others (Saberists, Heroes/BHs) although the odds are usually more against the FWs as it lacks many defensive capabilities (no saber defence to block/deflect).

People complaining that they can't "Crouch and Slash" and destroy wook players with ease are also inexperienced newfags who have 0 understanding of mechanics. Crouch and Slash was NEVER a counter to melee wook, it was just a quick way to counter BAD wook players, even before the barge stagger was introduced fighting an experienced melee wook was not easy. They would wait for you to expend your combo swings and hit you in the small cooldown period between combos, they would make sure you were forced into crouching and thus not able to chase and use their pistol if they could not hit you with melee hits to bait you into charging.

The barge stagger is a mixed bag, some people think it makes playing melee wook too easy but honestly if your response to barges is to crouch you deserve to die. The barge forces the wook to run in a straight line and wooks don't exactly move at a very fast pace (they aren't rolling dekas) the trick to countering wook barges is just to literally move out of the way (The wook cannot change direction mid-barge) and slash them in the back. If you aren't fast enough to stop crouching and move two steps to the left/right to dodge a barge then you need to get more experience, it is by no means impossible.

Rage does build up too fast though, it should either build up slower or build up super fast but only last like 5 seconds.

good take